Advice? First Thanksgiving w/Divorced Parents

[Haven]

Warning: VERY LONG POST. Sorry. Concision is not my strong point.

Hi, everyone. I'm looking for non-biased advice about what to do for Thanksgiving this year, and I'm counting on my PS friends for some good input.

Background

My father left my mother a month ago. It was pretty shocking, she had no idea it was coming, and he basically just walked away from everything--my mom, the house, the dogs, his daughters (he only called us once since, until an email this week. More on that later.) In their 30-year marriage, my mom was the one who held steady jobs, paid for everything, raised us girls, and basically kept the family together.

We learned some things about him that we hadn't known (past affair) and that we wouldn't admit (he often lies about things big and small, but he acts so sweet and kind that we've excused it for years.)

Before this happened, none of us (the daughters) realized how much our "relationship" with our father depended on our mom, meaning we don't really have relationships with him, but we saw him a lot because we're so close to our mom. Now that he's left, I've only seen him twice, and both times were horribly awkward as we have nothing to talk about, and no experience being together without my mom as a buffer, so to speak.

My father is a bit delusional about how divorce works. He thinks it just means that he won't live with my mom anymore, but he should be invited to all family gatherings, big and small. He pitched a fit when my mother didn't want to sit with him during High Holy Day services (Jewish holidays), and when I didn't invite him apple picking with my mom and my DH's niece and nephew. These two things happened almost immediately after he left my mom, and she was still reeling from the pain of being left, so of course the last thing she wanted to do was hang out with him.

The Current Issue

My father sent an email out to his daughters yesterday which basically said "Let me know what we're doing for Thanksgiving, where it's going to be, and what I should bring." That was pretty much it. Of course, I'm the eldest and the only daughter who has a house of my own, so I will be hosting Thanksgiving this year. He knows that.

I don't want him to come. He's done some nasty things to my mother in the past month that I haven't even mentioned here, but suffice it to say that they are hurtful, mean, and manipulative. I do not have a foundation for a relationship with him, and while that makes me sad to realize at my age (2, it is what it is. And at the moment, with the way he's been treating my mother, I'm not interested in creating a relationship with him right now.

My mom's brother and his family will be at our house for Thanksgiving, as well as my three sisters, one of their boyfriends, my mother's good friend, and my DH.

My mom says to do whatever will make us (the girls) happy, as always. I know she isn't comfortable around my father because of the way he's been behaving, but she would never say that to me.

What should I do? Should I invite him?

 

[neatfreak]

I would just say "Due to recent events, we all think it would be best if you made other plans this year" and sign it from ALL of his daughters. It might be harsh, but if you have no basis for a relationship with him then it's what is needed IMO...

If you WANTED to include him, I would say something completely different, so this is based on the assumption that no one really wants him there, right?

 

[Skippy123]

Oh gosh Haven I am so sorry. I personally wouldn''t invite him; it sounds like it will stir up too many emotions and wouldn''t be the right time. Maybe you can host something at a later time?

 

[Haven]

Thank you for responding, Neatfreak and Skippy.

You''re right, Neat, nobody wants him there. And yes, it would stir up a ton of emotions if he came, as you said, Skippy.

I just can''t help feeling like I''m a horrible person if I don''t invite him. But on the other hand, he made a decision that inherently affected our family dynamic, how can he expect everything else to remain the same?

I feel like he does not think there should be any consequences for his decision. He didn''t have to face the fact that he doesn''t earn an income because a friend of his is letting him stay in her second home. He forced my mother to sit with him during holiday services by sneaking a seat right when they began, so he didn''t have to go through a service as a single man. He left all of his responsibilities with my mom (bills, house, dogs, etc.) and now he''s living a stress-free existence. I kind of feel like bending to his will and having the whole family together for Thanksgiving is just another example of how he won''t have to face the reality that is divorce.

I really appreciate your input, thank you.

 

[ChargerGrrl]

Oh Haven, i'm sorry to hear that you're going thru this.

It seems like your Father wants to have his cake and eat it too!

Please don't think that you're a horrible person if you don't invite him. It's your home, and you're hosting, therefore YOU call the shots.

I would say that you cannot celebrate the Holiday with him and leave it at that. The less he knows, the better (although i'm sure he'll figure it out)

 

[dragonfly411]

Haven
I personally think that he shouldn''t be invited, and that he should NOT be allowed to be a freeloader any longer. Your mom was far too tolerant from what you''ve said here. I''d do what Neat Freak said, and tell him that you think it''s best he make other plans.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Your dad apparently decided, when he left your family, that he didn''t want to be there any more...and yet it''s odd how he still "wants to be there".

I think you need to call him -- e-mail causes wars, and shouldn''t be used for big things like this -- and let him know that since the majority of those in attandance are from your Mom''s side of the family, that you think it would be best for him not to join you. Explain that since they are seperated, its probably best if they start living seperate lives even if it means starting now.

Will it hurt him? Yes, most likely. But it will also probably make him realize that by leaving a family, you really do have to go. He can''t have all the perks--like holidays--with none of the responsibility.

I''m sorry Haven you''re having to deal with it...but stay strong and positive.

 

[InLuv101]

Date: 10/21/2008 2:44:04 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Your dad apparently decided, when he left your family, that he didn''t want to be there any more...and yet it''s odd how he still ''wants to be there''.

I think you need to call him -- e-mail causes wars, and shouldn''t be used for big things like this -- and let him know that since the majority of those in attandance are from your Mom''s side of the family, that you think it would be best for him not to join you. Explain that since they are seperated, its probably best if they start living seperate lives even if it means starting now.

Will it hurt him? Yes, most likely. But it will also probably make him realize that by leaving a family, you really do have to go. He can''t have all the perks--like holidays--with none of the responsibility.

I''m sorry Haven you''re having to deal with it...but stay strong and positive.

Yea, what she said!

 

[UCLABelle]

How awful Haven- I am sorry! I would also just say "due to everything this year we decided to celebrate ...", he has to understand!!??!???

 

[JSM]

I also agree with Italiahaircolor. He needs to be told kindly, but firmly, that he is not welcome. I''m so sorry that you are going through this!

 

[bee*]

Date: 10/21/2008 2:45:57 PM
Author: InLuv101

Date: 10/21/2008 2:44:04 PM

Author: Italiahaircolor

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Your dad apparently decided, when he left your family, that he didn''t want to be there any more...and yet it''s odd how he still ''wants to be there''.


I think you need to call him -- e-mail causes wars, and shouldn''t be used for big things like this -- and let him know that since the majority of those in attandance are from your Mom''s side of the family, that you think it would be best for him not to join you. Explain that since they are seperated, its probably best if they start living seperate lives even if it means starting now.


Will it hurt him? Yes, most likely. But it will also probably make him realize that by leaving a family, you really do have to go. He can''t have all the perks--like holidays--with none of the responsibility.


I''m sorry Haven you''re having to deal with it...but stay strong and positive.

Yea, what she said!

I agree. It sounds like he really doesn''t understand the implications of his leaving. I''m so sorry to hear what''s happened Haven.

 

[neatfreak]

Aww Haven, you are NOT a bad person!!! He left all of you in a bad situation, and as I am sure you teach your HS students, his actions have consequences and now he has to deal with them.

 

[purrfectpear]

"I''m sorry dad and I hope it doesn''t seem like I''m taking sides, but you left mom, so we''re going to have our family TG together this year without you. You wanted to have your independence so we know you''ll understand and enjoy your freedom from family obligations".

Yeah, I''d be bitter. I might not send it, but I''d sure be thinking it !!!

 

[Haven]

Thank you so much for all of your replies.

I feel good knowing that so many of you think that it''s okay to not invite him to Thanksgiving.

Here''s another tidbit to add to the drama--I fear that if I don''t play nice with my father, he is going to try to do a number on my mom with the financials because he''s going to blame her for my behavior. (He blames her for everything, his affair, their failed marriage, etc. As I said, he is delusional.)

Here''s what I mean--they have some debt. Originally, my father told my mom he wanted to take it all on since my mom was the one who had kept our family afloat financially for their entire marriage. He is now changing his tune. He recently told my mother that since she makes a lot more than he does, she should take it all on. When my mom reminded him that in Illinois the law looks at ability to pay, and not actual earnings, it won''t work out that way because he has the ability to make more money, he just chooses to not work a real job. His response? He lied and said he just found out he might need another back surgery which could put him out of work for years. Slimy.

I don''t want him to break out the claws against my mom because he''s angry that he doesn''t have a relationship with his daughters. And based on his recent behavior, I think he may not be above that type of behavior.

 

[Haven]

Date: 10/21/2008 3:08:37 PM
Author: neatfreak
Aww Haven, you are NOT a bad person!!! He left all of you in a bad situation, and as I am sure you teach your HS students, his actions have consequences and now he has to deal with them.

Thank you for being so supportive, Neatfreak.

 

[krispi]

I hate to see parents put their children into these kinds of situations. Haven, would you and your sisters be willing to spend time with him separately? Maybe meet him for dinner the Friday or Saturday after Thanksgiving? This way there are still consequences - he''s not invited to the big family dinner - but he can''t accuse you of shutting him out and perhaps wouldn''t retaliate against your mom?

 

[lliang_chi]

Haven,

This is a very tough position. I''d suggest you have you mom talk to an attorney and see what happens in these instances.

 

[Elmorton]

Haven, my heart just goes out to you. On the surface, I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who said that your dad shouldn't be there. He shouldn't. He left the family. But one thing you said was that you don't want a relationship with your father right now.

I guess my concern is that if you're put in the position to tell your father that he isn't invited to your home for Thanksgiving, that you're closing the door on the relationship permanently. I like the idea of separate celebrations (sans mom when you see dad), too. Do you think that's possible?

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/21/2008 12:55:23 PM
Author:Haven

I don't want him to come.

To me, this says it all.

I'd reply to his email honestly and just say "thanks for the email; while it's nice that you'd like to get together, I think I need a bit of space to digest all that's happened and think it may be best to pursue separate plans this year for Thanksgiving. I hope you understand."

As far as him changing his tune, I'm sad to say I think this would happen regardless of whether or not you and your sibs make nice and play along, so I don't see the value/benefit in doing so.

 

[Sabine]

Haven, I''m so sorry you are going through this. My parents divorced the first year I was in college, so I have a bit of experience with this, and I have to tell you, while the first year was awkward and horrible, it does get better.

I totally agree with all the other posters that he ABSOLUTELY should NOT be invited to your thanksgiving. However, for multiple reasons, I do feel like you (or all the kids) should find some way to spend some time with him on or around thanksgiving. He left your mother, but that did not mean he is out of your family or he left you. While I don''t condone his behavior at all, I did see how difficult it was on my parents, and they both felt like we were abandoning them when we spent time with the opposite parent. Also, this might help to keep him from taking his misplaced anger at himself for being a dork out on your mom. Having divorced parents is a juggling act, and while it''s totally not fair for the kids, sometimes you have to miss out on time you want to spend somewhere to do the family obligation thing.

 

[Regular Guy]

Haven,

I''m so very sorry. I agree with everyone else, but I''ll add one thing:

Date: 10/21/2008 1:04:41 PM
Author: neatfreak
I would just say ''Due to recent events, we all think it would be best if you made other plans this year'' and sign it from ALL of his daughters. It might be harsh, but if you have no basis for a relationship with him then it''s what is needed IMO...

Something like this would be appropriate. Plus...just from what you''ve written, I have a sense that even after you send this note above...he may show up anyway. If so...decide now what options you have, and what you''d want to do if he did show up.

I''d encourage you to be firm for your mutual benefit.

Again, I''m sorry...this coming from a Dad, who I suppose had a more personal reaction than I thought I might.

Warmest wishes,

 

[iheartscience]

Wow, what a sad and bad situation. Everyone else has said what I think-tell him politely but firmly he''s not invited to TG dinner this year. It would be extremely nice of you if you and your sister made an effort to meet him for dinner on maybe the day after TG, although I know that I wouldn''t be able to bring myself to do it if I were you.

As for the debt, I am shocked at how slimy he is being, but the courts will have to sort that out. Since he''s already going back on his word, I doubt anything you, your sister or you mother do will change that. I''m so sorry you''re dealing with this-what a terrible shock and horrible situation to be in.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Haven, I am *so* sorry you are in this horrible situation! I agree Thanksgiving should be a dad free zone. This is NOT your fault. He sounds toxic. Tell your mom to get a great lawyer ASAP!

 

[movie zombie]

tell him not to worry about bringing anything....including himself. if he pushes the issue, just tell him he''s not invited. and if he still pushes it, tell him its your house and your rules and until the dust settles from the divorce this is the way it will be. if you do feel a need to do something with him, make it a separate get together with just you and him.

movie zombie

 

[Haven]

Oh my goodness, thank you so much for all of your advice and support.

I''m definitely going to tell him that he is not invited to our TG meal, and I''m going to do it in person.

Ira--You''re right. He may show up even after I tell him that he is not invited. I''m not sure what I''ll do if that happens, I''ll have to sort that out.

Sabine--I''m sorry you went through this as a young adult, too. Thank you for sharing your story, and I do look forward to things getting better.

El--You make a great point about our relationship in the long run. I''m really glad you brought that up, because from my current perspective I currently have zero interest in establishing a relationship, but I know I need to make sure I don''t close all the doors on that possibility in case I have a change of heart in the future.

Thing2--That isn''t even the half of it. If I told you everything he''s been doing you would be absolutely shocked.

Thank you everyone, again. I''m sorry I''m not responding individually to everyone, but I''m getting so upset about this situation that I have to go lurk on other threads right now . . .

You are all so wonderful.

 

[zhuzhu]

I am so sorry to hear the difficult situation you are facing. Family tension can be really stressful. I agree that you should not include him in the party given how your feel about him at this time.

 

[Kaleigh]

Haven,
Gosh am so sorry you have this on your plate. Yes he shouldn''t be invited from what you have said. Good luck in telling him, I hope he gets the message loud and clear. HUGS!!!

 

[phoenixgirl]

We have a similar situation -- DH''s parents divorced after 30 years, and the dysfunctional parent quickly showed her true colors and how much she had depended upon FIL to stabilize her.

DH has felt a lot of stress about "choosing" between his parents for holidays and has wanted to travel a lot more to avoid the choice . . . visiting relatives out of town, etc. But anyway, based on our experience, here''s what I would say:

Avoid conflict where possible. Screening your calls, arranging things to be in public/with other people, having a reason (made up or not) to leave after a certain amount of time . . . all of these can buy peace for a period of time. And less is more. You don''t need to justify or explain or convince. You simply state what you will accept, and the other person can take it or leave it. If a tantrum/manipulation/argument ensues, then you calmly leave.

In your case, I''d reply something like,

"Unfortunately, we have a conflict on Thanksgiving. Let''s do lunch on Friday."

Don''t go into the whole "Obviously we aren''t going to have two parents on the verge of divorce over at the same time" spiel unless you have to. But if he pushes it, then I''d say,

"Dad, that''s the best I can do. I hope to see you Friday."

He''s trying to railroad you by pretending that it makes sense to have everyone together. Or perhaps he''s trying to screw over your mom. Or to create drama for the thrill of it. Who knows. But don''t let him railroad you. If you freak out or argue with him, then he''s won by sucking you in.

Have you researched narcissistic personality disorder?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Haven, you cannot worry about what your dad might do if he doesn''t get his way...esspecially to your mom. Of course you''re being a good daughter wanting to protect her from any further hurt or suffering (both emotionally and otherwise)...but, thats what the courts are for, to hash out the money, and chances are he may end up paying weither he likes it or not.

Your dad sounds like a serious trip. I cannot understand why someone who finally got what he wanted by leaving your family is so vendictive. But thats his issue, and if I were his daughter, I would strongly suggest he seeks therapy for whatever keeps him from being truly happy.

The thing is, divorce isn''t easy, even when its mutal and amicable, it''s the fracturing of an entire life. I''m so sorry this has touched your family. But maybe if you and your Mom both start seeing a therapist you can find a way of moving forward...and uncover a way to handle your Dad, regardless of any future decisions he makes.

Big hugs and support.

 

[goobear78]

Haven, I''m so sorry to read about your situation and the position that you''ve been put it. It is horrible. That said, you are not horrible for not wanting your father to be at Thanksgiving. Given what he has put your mother and the rest of your family through it is horrible for him to feel so entitled as to expect to attend. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn''t want him there either. And I would think about how my mom would feel with him there.

I think it would be best to call him and explain the situation and politely tell him he''s not invited. I don''t like email trials with things like that, he could try and use them later in life or in the divorce.

This is a very hard situation to deal with and I hope it all works out for you and your family!