Advice backfired. Now I am the killer of dreams

[MMtwo]

I would love some feedback. Sitting here sipping on a glass of wine and trying to untangle my apparent misdeeds today. My lovely 24 year old niece came by to borrow a blazer for an interview. After chatting with her I find the job interview is 4 hours away. My darling niece said proudly, "the job pays six figures, I will be creating and selling advertising".

My niece is a lovely young lady, but her career highlights up to this point have been a shift manager at a fast food restaurant. She has no formal education past high school and she does not seem to be particularly good at English. She is also heavily pierced (although I am sure she will take out her jewelry before the interview). I am not trying to judge, but to explain why I was a little suspicious about this amazing career opportunity.

Then she told me she was instructed to wear business clothes and not to wear tacky jewelry because the interviewer hates tacky jewelry. She was also instructed to wear a button up blouse and a blazer. This is the point where I said, "Okay, I have never heard of attire being dictated for an interview, something is wrong here". She said she was told the interview was business formal, and she asked the lady on the phone what that meant. The resulting list she was given grudgingly was guiding her clothing choices. (Oh dear!) Her plan was to get this job and quit her other job (apparently without notice). Then she could temporarily move in with the boyfriend who lives an hour away and commute to this wonder job that was 2 hour further away.

The next part is apparently my fatal mistake, I told her the job sounded sketchy and that I believed the actual job must include sales and that there must be a catch. I also said if the job were legitimate, they would be looking for college grads or people with an advertising background. Most advertising jobs are looking for people with experience.

Her face fell and she said she was going to leave, and that she would not go to the job interview after all. She was near tears and I apologized for making her upset.

My daughter texted me (she was with her cousin) while they were driving back to my brother's house and berated me for making her cry. Apparently I was out of line in telling her her background did not match a 6 figure salary. I was told (by daughter) I needed to write a long apology and was out of line embarrassing her like that.

In my point of view, I was saving her time and car gas and trying to give her motherly advice. My brother said I "stole her dream" and embaressed her. I should have told her privately (umm, I was sitting in my own bedroom with her). I am the bad guy for making her feel badly about her future. In my opinion, parental love would have set the gears in motion for an education so my kid did not have to have a life in fast food (if she did not want one). Seriously, I have three people mad at me and she is going to the interview now (which is fine, I just told her it sounded sketchy).

Our parenting styles are VERY different to be sure. So here is the question: Should I apologize for telling my niece I thought she was heading into a scam?

 

[Indylady]

I think it's absolutely fair that you told her you were concerned the job seems like a scam. Six figure salaries are not easy to come by. If there wasn't truth to your words, it wouldn't have made her cry. I went to school for X; if I apply to jobs for X field, and someone tells me my education/experience is not sufficient, I would probably dismiss them, because I know that my education and experience match the jobs I'm applying for. However, how you said it may have a huge impact on her feelings after this conversation.

 

[marymm]

From what you set forth in your initial post, OP, I think your words and attitude to your niece were quite negative - no wonder she got upset. She went to you to borrow a blazer. Unless you truly believed her safety was at risk, your role here was to make sure the borrowed blazer fit her well and went with her interview outfit, and to send her out your door with a "best of luck, dear, and drive safe" goodbye. If her dreams (even if unrealistic) had to be crushed, better to have it be by the company or the interviewer than by you. She is at the age where every interview is valuable experience, so even if the job turned out to pay less or involved job responsibilities other than she anticipated, she would have had an opportunity to deal with the situation and learn from it. If I were you, I would reach out to your niece with a sincere apology.

 

[CJ2008]

I have to say I'd probably would have been concerned about the job being sketchy too...and I might have given her some tips on what to look out for...but I'm with marymm in the sense that unless you were concerned for her safety, it would have been better to keep the advice to a minimum and let her go through this "magical" interview and find out for herself what it was really all about.

At the same time, you meant well...so don't beat yourself up too much...but yes, I would apologize to your niece and let her know you meant well but maybe you said too much and offered advice she had not asked for. I also agree with IndyLady that it's possible she herself probably had an inkling it was too good to be true...so once she actually heard it said outloud, she let that take over. But she COULD have, and should have, still gone...not going was her choice...even though I could see how she might have felt not as enthusiastic about it.

 

[minousbijoux]

From what you set forth in your initial post, OP, I think your words and attitude to your niece were quite negative - no wonder she got upset. She went to you to borrow a blazer. Unless you truly believed her safety was at risk, your role here was to make sure the borrowed blazer fit her well and went with her interview outfit, and to send her out your door with a "best of luck, dear, and drive safe" goodbye. If her dreams (even if unrealistic) had to be crushed, better to have it be by the company or the interviewer than by you. She is at the age where every interview is valuable experience, so even if the job turned out to pay less or involved job responsibilities other than she anticipated, she would have had an opportunity to deal with the situation and learn from it. If I were you, I would reach out to your niece with a sincere apology.

I don't want to pile on, but I'm afraid I agree with this. You were legitimately worried about what sounds like a half-baked idea at best, but there is a difference between expressing concern about the position and doubts about her capability.

 

[MMtwo]

Thank you all for your responses. It is VERY helpful to have your impartial feedback. I will keep reading and hope others will give their thoughts. Maybe *I* am the one that will learn something from her job interview tomorrow.

 

[packrat]

Well way to go, Dream Killer! I remember when I was living in Arizona w/my gramma, going thru the paper looking for a job and got an interview for a job making *amazing* money...my gramma asked me about it, and found out that the place was in fact, sooo not an office job like I'd been led to believe. And some of the jobs I called about "taking calls from home" ended up being the "hey baby what're you wearing" type jobs. I've found that the vast majority of the "too good to be true" jobs, ARE. It's not the norm to go from a high school education making minimum wage at Burger King to six figures in a job that most college graduates IN that field probably wouldn't get w/out experience.

So, no, I don't think you were out of line. I think it sounds quite odd, myself, and would wonder what the business really is.

 

[CJ2008]

Thank you all for your responses. It is VERY helpful to have your impartial feedback. I will keep reading and hope others will give their thoughts. Maybe *I* am the one that will learn something from her job interview tomorrow.

Oh I didn't realize the interview is tomorrow! Well that's awesome, then, she still gets to go

Were you thinking of reaching out to her tonight?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

In short, perhaps the jacket nor the job would have fit, but that was not for you to decide.

I would recommend an apology surrounded with a big hug--because you care about your niece and that is what sincere and kind people do.

cheers--Sharon

 

[aljdewey]

Oh, MMeister - while I think your spidey senses about the job were right, it does surely seem like the current outcome is 'shoot the messenger'.

I wholeheartedly believe you were trying to be helpful, and I think your niece's reaction is probably what most of ours would have been at that age. Some lessons are better when the 'bad guy' dreamkiller is a third party. Try not to take it too hard.

I'd probably default to apologizing; it's more important to preserve the relationship than to deliver the lesson. She'll come by the lesson soon enough.

 

[LLJsmom]

I have to say I'd probably would have been concerned about the job being sketchy too...and I might have given her some tips on what to look out for...but I'm with marymm in the sense that unless you were concerned for her safety, it would have been better to keep the advice to a minimum and let her go through this "magical" interview and find out for herself what it was really all about.

At the same time, you meant well...so don't beat yourself up too much...but yes, I would apologize to your niece and let her know you meant well but maybe you said too much and offered advice she had not asked for. I also agree with IndyLady that it's possible she herself probably had an inkling it was too good to be true...so once she actually heard it said outloud, she let that take over. But she COULD have, and should have, still gone...not going was her choice...even though I could see how she might have felt not as enthusiastic about it.

CJ2008 you said it all. Agree with you 100%. OP, don't feel too badly. It came from a good place.

 

[ame]

Our parenting styles are VERY different to be sure. So here is the question: Should I apologize for telling my niece I thought she was heading into a scam?

Ah...I resemble some of this story, except for the fast food and quitting without notice and moving in with my boyfriend part.

I too was a young misfit full of ink and metal and dreams of a well paying career in graphics when I was still in college, and it was a real adjustment to get out into the real world with said ink and metal and dreams to only find out that most employers don't give a shit how good you are at your craft if you look like a lunatic. When I finally got it through my skull that my talent would never be known if I didn't look semi-respectable, no matter how many times my parents said so, it grew me up pretty quick, and I think she'd hopefully get that same wakeup call.

Most "advertising" and "marketing" jobs ARE kind of scammy, many are bs actually. I worked in several agencies and owned an agency for a long time, and a lot of those positions really are sales jobs and usually a TON of cold calling. Amazing how those advertisers and marketers know how to phrase the BS to make it sound like a great opportunity! A lot are also commission only jobs, which is hellacious to live on, because if you're not "ALWAYS BE CLOSING" and landing clients and contracts CONSTANTLY you will not make it. Six figures is if you are literally always closing, and if your senior coworkers aren't stealing your closes out from under you--something that also happens a ton.

I don't honestly think you did her a disservice, and sadly it sounds like a lot of coddling up til now in her life, lending well to what sounds like some serious naivety and reality is harsh. I think she should still go for the interview experience, and find out for sure what this "dream job" really is. But aside from that: quitting without notice for any job is really unwise, and will haunt her for references later.

 

[MollyMalone]

Sure sounds to me as if it's one of those phony positions that are all over Craigslist. In which case, the interviewer would not be crushing her dreams... these scams thrive on reeling in the naive and innocent. That advertising she'd be writing? Probably more ads for Craigslist or some kind of Search Engine Optimization gig that's commission-only or a really skimpy paycheck with supposedly the opportunity to make thousands.

So I definitely would not have sent her off with "Best of luck". But because I think any interviewing experience is good -- even if the job or interviewer is a horror -- I would have explored with her how she learned of the opening, what she knows about it (probably virtually nothing, may not even know the true name of the outfit); Google'd it with her; offered to work with her right then & there to come up with questions for her to pose during the interview, answers for what they might ask her (altho' if it's the kind of "job" I believe it to be, it would not be anything like an interview like we all have come to expect); and seek to impress upon her that she shouldn't accept the position right on the spot, even if they pressure her.

Even if she's already canceled (on a Saturday?), I imagine she could still go on the interview.

 

[junebug17]

I really don't think you said anything that out of line - the whole thing does sound sketchy, and doesn't make sense; I don't see what's wrong with telling your niece your opinion. You made valid points. She's 24 years old, she should be able to handle hearing a differing viewpoint without falling apart. To be honest, I think her reaction to your comments was a bit immature.

That said, I'd probably apologize since it's a relative and I wouldn't want this incident to negatively affect the relationship.

 

[vinnie98]

I know I'm new and all and I don't really know much about diamonds but kids? Kids I know!

The interview is a non-issue. It's a BS scam. You know it and on some level, she knows it too. She's just holding on to that sliver of hope that it may turn out a-ok. If it was that easy to make 6-figures, we'd all be making 6-figures.

I can tell that you love your niece. I can feeeeellll it through the wifi. That said though, you seem to have a pile of negativity about how she was raised and who she is as a person. "She doesn't speak English well...works in fast food...piercings...lack of education..." She feels that from you. She KNOWS you feel that way about her and this was her opportunity to make you PROUD of her and you did everything but laugh in her face. She left there feeling that she wasn't good enough or at very least that YOU felt she wasn't good enough. CRYING over this was really a bit much -- that's why I think it was about more than the silly interview. See? Plus it was in front of your daughter who I assume DID do all of those things you wish your niece had done.

I wouldn't outright apologize. You were correct to warn her of the pitfalls of this sort of thing but you have to approach these things from an angle that leaves her with the feeling that you think she is a smart, beautiful and capable young woman -- quirks and all...and that you're so proud of the woman she's becoming. Tell her that you think she CAN do it (and she really CAN get that six-figure gig) but there are a few more steps in between. She's young and there's still time for her to do or be whatever she wants to be. Nothing wrong with a dream as long as the dream has a plan (and an Auntie who thinks she's a Princess)

Please forgive me if I spoke out of turn...

 

[monarch64]

Dream Killer(lol!), you had her best interests at heart. I totally understand wanting to shield her from disappointment. However, you were young once, and I will venture a guess that you were once wide-eyed and pretty innocent, too, as far as going forth into the "real world." If your niece is like many people, she will need to learn on her own from mistakes. That's just how we develop good judgement and character. I can look back now and have a laugh about my notions of the world at that age, vs. reality, but when I was going through it, I would have been crushed if a loved one had told me I was being taken for a ride whether they had good intentions or not.That certainly happened to me, countless times. I'm sorry you're going through this, but maybe it IS best to apologize and give a very simple explanation. She is fortunate to have an aunt who loves her so much.

ETA: Vinnie98, welcome! I really like your take on this matter!

 

[Sakuracherry]

You tone may have been harsh, but I believe you did the right thing. You were genuinely worried about your niece. Just tell her that you didn't meant to hurt her feelings. Eventually she'll learn.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's my thought.

I agree with most of the previous posters.

And I think that maybe what you could have done differently AND accomplished your goal of warning not to get too excited over something that may not be legitimate.

Here's what I think you should have said.

"Hey, I REALLY hope this pans out. But I am a little concerned. Usually when things sound too good to be true, they are. So, I think that maybe you want to make sure you get a firm idea of the job responsibilities and performance expectations. And in particular you will want to ask about the compensation STRUCTURE. Sometimes jobs that advertise high salaries are talking about commission sales jobs where only the top couple performers make a lot, and the rest of the people make significantly less. Interviews are two way. As you are being evaluated, you need to make sure you ask the right questions to be able to evaluate them. I can help you with that if you want... we can role play for a couple minutes."

That way, you've told her to make sure to pay attention to the details. And you've helped and warned her. But you haven't attacked HER (which I am sorry, you kind of did do), and instead just put the focus of your concern about the employer.

 

[crown1]

I would love some feedback. Sitting here sipping on a glass of wine and trying to untangle my apparent misdeeds today. My lovely 24 year old niece came by to borrow a blazer for an interview. After chatting with her I find the job interview is 4 hours away. My darling niece said proudly, "the job pays six figures, I will be creating and selling advertising".

My niece is a lovely young lady, but her career highlights up to this point have been a shift manager at a fast food restaurant. She has no formal education past high school and she does not seem to be particularly good at English. She is also heavily pierced (although I am sure she will take out her jewelry before the interview). I am not trying to judge, but to explain why I was a little suspicious about this amazing career opportunity.

Then she told me she was instructed to wear business clothes and not to wear tacky jewelry because the interviewer hates tacky jewelry. She was also instructed to wear a button up blouse and a blazer. This is the point where I said, "Okay, I have never heard of attire being dictated for an interview, something is wrong here". She said she was told the interview was business formal, and she asked the lady on the phone what that meant. The resulting list she was given grudgingly was guiding her clothing choices. (Oh dear!) Her plan was to get this job and quit her other job (apparently without notice). Then she could temporarily move in with the boyfriend who lives an hour away and commute to this wonder job that was 2 hour further away.

The next part is apparently my fatal mistake, I told her the job sounded sketchy and that I believed the actual job must include sales and that there must be a catch. I also said if the job were legitimate, they would be looking for college grads or people with an advertising background. Most advertising jobs are looking for people with experience.

Her face fell and she said she was going to leave, and that she would not go to the job interview after all. She was near tears and I apologized for making her upset.

My daughter texted me (she was with her cousin) while they were driving back to my brother's house and berated me for making her cry. Apparently I was out of line in telling her her background did not match a 6 figure salary. I was told (by daughter) I needed to write a long apology and was out of line embarrassing her like that.

In my point of view, I was saving her time and car gas and trying to give her motherly advice. My brother said I "stole her dream" and embaressed her. I should have told her privately (umm, I was sitting in my own bedroom with her). I am the bad guy for making her feel badly about her future. In my opinion, parental love would have set the gears in motion for an education so my kid did not have to have a life in fast food (if she did not want one). Seriously, I have three people mad at me and she is going to the interview now (which is fine, I just told her it sounded sketchy).

Our parenting styles are VERY different to be sure. So here is the question: Should I apologize for telling my niece I thought she was heading into a scam?

After reading the responses I went back and re-read your post, I do not see that you did a lot wrong. I believe you have asked about an apology, but as I read, you did that when she became upset. The young woman is 24 years old not 18. If she did not know one does not get such a position or salary without some qualifications she was done a favor being told so. I think your brother and your daughter should feel some need to apologize to her if it does turn out to be a "scam". I think it says something for your relationship and desire to help her that she came to you for the blazer. It is great to have dreams but a good dose of reality helps along the way. I would try to forget the criticism and continue to love your niece.

 

[perry]

Despite your just concerns I feel you were overly negative and indeed a dream killer (if not of this specific one of many others too).

First; you want her to dream of doing better. There is nothing wrong with a person applying for a dream job.

Second; the clothing request by the interviewer was not unreasonable. There is a place for different levels of business dress, and many younger people need to be told what it is (and she was probably given a couple options or asked if she could do .... and chose something she could do).

Third; you should have encouraged her to go for the interview; but, then said something to the effect that a lot of these interviews do not turn out to be what you think they are; and there are some outright scam job offers out there - and this might be one of them. So please get the details on the job, pay, working conditions, company, etc. and I will be more than willing to help you see if this is real job that is right for you. Then you should have closed it with something along the line of: If this does not work out I encourage you to keep looking for something better for you (i.e. become a dream supporter).

Perry

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Her mother should have had enough sense to warn her. I would have been checking this company out on the internet. Anyone would know it is a scam. In fact, if I were her mom, I'd be concerned about them conning her into signing something that will cost her money, such as she has to "invest" in a product before she can begin selling to make this 6 figure salary. I realize there are areas of the country like CA and NY that have high cost of living and higher wages, but in a lot of this country, most college graduates do not get 6 figure jobs in their 20's. Actually most never do (other than with inflation over time).

She needed even more warning than you gave her. I think the level of education thing was probably more the problem.

I'd just say again, I am so sorry if I upset you, but I love you and don't want you to get into a dangerous situation.

 

[Enerchi]

I'm sorry that you are feeling bad about the conversation you had, MoneyMeister. Your heart was in the right place trying to prevent her from being shocked/hurt/let down at the interview, but her response and what she "heard" you say, is out of your control - same with how your daughter and brother responded.

I hope it is a good interview experience for her, that she dresses the part, she shows up on time, interacts well with the interviewer - all the appropriate stuff. BUT, I also hope that she is clever enough to see thru the interviewer and ask questions as to what would really be expected of her. As the saying goes, "if it seems to good to be true, it usually is". I agree with others above, a 6figure salary doesn't just fall in most peoples laps. In most cases, it takes years of education and experience to achieve that salary level. You were being a realist in contrast to her dreamer mentality!

In the hope of continued family harmony, I would suck it up and apologize to her for being harsh (or whatever word would sound like you...) and say you just didn't want her to be hurt if it didn't turn out well. You love and care about her and that's the important message she needs to hear.

Again - not every one "hears" things as we intend them to be delivered!

 

[MarionC]

Money,
People may be unhappy with you now, but your niece did learn a lesson from all this, hopefully. There are a lot of pitfalls in life that sound good to kids... "be a model" "make big money at home" - WE know they are scams, but kids need guidance.

I too am a killer of dreams...if you happen to run across my post where my DD was buying a 70% wolf hybrid with no dog experience. I was the bad guy who told her what she did not want to hear and crushed her romantic notions.

We do the best we can and we have to try to protect kids.
You may suffer for trying to help, but you did the right thing.

 

[momhappy]

Okay, so you were perceived as a "dream killer" but you were actually being realistic. Once the emotion subsides, hopefully common sense will prevail. Even if the job wasn't a scam, she would have likely not gotten it anyways based on her lack of education/experience in the field. I would apologize (by phone or in person, not by letter) and explain that you meant no harm - you were just trying to protect her. Acknowledge it, apologize and move on - no further dialogue needed beyond that IMO.

 

[iLander]

Sounds like a scam. I would tell them not to hand over any money for this "job".

 

[gemtastic]

This brings back memories of looking for a summer job during college and getting dressed up in a suit for a "great high paying opportunity". "Wait, you want me to sell knives????" I was naïve and going to that Cutco interview was eye opening. I left deflated and confused. Nowhere in the ad did it mention sales or knives.

It was a good learning opportunity. It was (cough cough) 20 years ago, but they may have pushed to purchase the product and then sell. I have vague recollections of someone telling me beforehand it was a waste of time to go to the interview and that is was a scam (I think it was my older, wiser boyfriend or perhaps a parent), but being bullheaded I went anyway. In retrospect it was good to have the warning, because while I am not dumb, I am gullible and take people at their word. I can easily see how people get sucked into these schemes. The interview and experience was a good learning experience for me: if it sounds too good to be true, it is; people are dishonest.

In terms of reacting negatively to your advice, at that age I would react very different to anything my mother said, compared to my father. I am not sure of your relationship with your niece, but in my twenties I always had more of an emotional and visceral reaction to things coming from my mother than my father. Generalization here, but women interact differently with each other and tend to get our feathers ruffled more easily; we are emotional creatures. I think that if it had been my mother warning me about the job, I would have become mad and upset and perhaps cried as well. But that is just me.

Weird that the man I married had a set of Cutco knives.........

Just apologize and move on. Don't beat yourself up about it. You had a gut, instinctive, protective reaction and acted on it. Nothing wrong there. She will get over it.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

You did right in warning her. Depending on the scam and what she signed, she could end up owing a lot of money. 6 figures for someone with no work experience in the area or who isn't the next rising star in the field is not realistic.

Now, how about mentoring her to get a good job? Read over job postings to show her how to read between the lines, identify skills that she could obtain that would be interesting to a potential employer, show her how to dress and mannerism to avoid, etc. Sit down with her and make a simple project outline for it, "Project Awesome Job" or similar, outlining what to do, when, etc.

 

[vinnie98]

This brings back memories of looking for a summer job during college and getting dressed up in a suit for a "great high paying opportunity". "Wait, you want me to sell knives????" I was naïve and going to that Cutco interview was eye opening. I left deflated and confused. Nowhere in the ad did it mention sales or knives.

I sold those knives...lol. Actually I sold ONE set of knives to my parents. This was either directly before or directly after I had the million dollar opportunity to sell fire extinguishers.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I think your niece learned that you don't think very much of her. Whatever the job was she wasn't going to get a $100,000 job anyway.
You did kill a dream, which is why she probably cried. You should have left it to the job interviewer to do that. She's 24, not 15, and hopefully will see the job for what it is. Mary Kay, Amway, and other companies listed on the NYSE have sales jobs where you can make that kind of money and don't need an education. Microsoft, Google all companies with owners that are college drop-outs.

I have one niece that didn't go to college. She has big ideas which work for while, and then fizzle. But most of us in the family, think
she will make it. She has hit the $100,000 mark and works with the most interesting and some famous people. She wrote a book a few yrs back and I was the only one to read the drafts. But she said, if you hate it, please don't tell me. My role is to encourage. Let people have their dreams.

I just would have just said-- don't sign anything! College degrees are not worth what they once were. Yes, I think you should apologize and tell her you think the world of her. She can do anything. People need that from families. She will learn her own limitations soon enough, as most of us do.

Annette


s

 

[JaneSmith]

She is twenty effing four. You told the truth. You also apologized when she got upset. You did nothing wrong.
I would write her a short email along the lines of 'you're a great young woman, I think you have the drive to achieve your dreams, my reservations were about the job, not you'. Just to make sure she realises you were worried about the scammy sounding job.

If family can't help and protect each other, what's the point? Especially when someone is so naive. It sounds like she had an entire life-dream planned out based on this job.