Adults Should Read Adult Books

[rubybeth]

From a NY Times Room for Debate: "The only thing more embarrassing than catching a guy on the plane looking at pornography on his computer is seeing a guy on the plane reading “The Hunger Games.” Or a Twilight book. Or Harry Potter. The only time I’m O.K. with an adult holding a children’s book is if he’s moving his mouth as he reads. "

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/03/28/the-power-of-young-adult-fiction/adults-should-read-adult-books

I don't even know where to begin with this since I'm a librarian, but I know we have a lot of avid readers on PS (based on the bookshelf post by Haven, amongst other threads) and wondered what y'all think of Mr. Stein's assertion.

 

[Haven]

I think Mr. Stein is clearly looking to get some attention for his forthcoming book, to be published in May.

Posting something as inane as this "opinion piece" is exactly the ticket, I'd say!

ETA: The comment section is very good!

 

[HollyS]

From a NY Times Room for Debate: "The only thing more embarrassing than catching a guy on the plane looking at pornography on his computer is seeing a guy on the plane reading “The Hunger Games.” Or a Twilight book. Or Harry Potter. The only time I’m O.K. with an adult holding a children’s book is if he’s moving his mouth as he reads. "

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/03/28/the-power-of-young-adult-fiction/adults-should-read-adult-books

I don't even know where to begin with this since I'm a librarian, but I know we have a lot of avid readers on PS (based on the bookshelf post by Haven, amongst other threads) and wondered what y'all think of Mr. Stein's assertion.

Well, uh, hmmmm, let me see . . . I don't WANT to have a problem with adults reading Harry Potter, Twilight, and Hunger Games. To each their own.

BUT, if I'm being honest . . . I do wonder . . . WHY?

I'm an avid, voracious reader. I would rather read than do anything else. Bookstores are my idea of heaven. And I'm not at all interested in tween fiction. Oh, I've read the first few pages of some of them. And I wonder . . . WHY is everyone so enthralled? It's a mystery. But, I prefer my mysteries to be from Agatha Christie.

 

[Haven]

I should add that I have no use for snobbery when it comes to anything, but particularly when it comes to reading.
As soon as someone turns his nose up at a certain genre, that tells me he isn't as widely read as he ought to be. And he never will be.

I'm a great fan of this C.S. Lewis quote:
“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence... But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

 

[MissStepcut]

You can pry Harry Potter out of my cold, dead, advanced-age hands.

If a book is well-written and engaging, who cares what audience age group the bookstores classify it under? These days, I find John Grisham underwhelming, but loved him as a child and teen, and then I'd proudly read anything Rowling writes on the subway. I don't think quality writing needs to be limited to any audience age group.

 

[makemepretty]

A good book is a good book no matter who the target audience is. Encouraging reading is wonderful at any age, any book, any time, anyway. Shame on the person who wrote that article.

Isn't one of the most popular graduating gifts "The Places You'll Go" by Dr. Seuss?

 

[Circe]

My learned response as a professor of children's literature: misogynist douche.

It's no surprise that almost every series he chooses (aside from Harry Potter, which, lets face it, as hard to avoid when talking about the genre) is aimed at female readers. And it's no surprise that his unappealing self-help memoir is allllllllllll about masculinity.

My guess? High level trolling. He's trying to get his name in the press for a little more name recognition when his book comes out, and he knows that bagging on a popular series that's just made a mint at the box office is a good way to do that, right or wrong.

Bottom line: a good book is a good book. Some of those books happen to feature protagonists who are young (which is, at the end of the day, the bright line between YA and mainstream fic, not the vocabulary, syntax, or even subject matter). I'd be delighted to see more adults, and particularly more adult males, devoting time to texts that humanize young women.

Because, also, let's face it - enthusiastic regular readers are voracious, and read everything. These popular series? They attract masses of people who, for whatever reason, haven't been attracted to the written word. And a lot of them are male (see also, the fact that boys are doing badly in schools now). If we can shame them out of reading The Hunger Games, it's not like they're necessarily going to turn around and pick up War and Peace. More likely, it'll just feed into the idea that reading is for geeks and girls ANYWAY and turn them right back to the X-Box and the continuing anti-intellectualism of contemporary society ....

ETA: Crossposted - glad to see we're all on the same page about his motivations!

 

[Lottie]

I have no problem whatsoever with people reading whatever they like. If you want to spend your hard earned downtime reading Superfudge or Schindlers List thats fine with me as long as you enjoy it.

I was a real bookworm as a child and still love all sorts - the classics, autobiographies, travel books, historical books and yes, some of the childrens books - Phillip Pulmans Dark Materials were a highlight and my nephew LOVED that he could talk about Harry Potter with me. The only section I won't go into is the "haven't I had a terrible life" section - too depressing.

 

[Haven]

Hear, hear, Circe!

 

[Circe]

Unrelated: his writing style is dreadful.

You want to see a good rant about books? Read this: http://www.christopher-priest.co.uk/journal/1077/hull-0-scunthorpe-3/

(About science fiction, another genre that is sometimes derided as being inappropriate for "serious" readers.)

 

[iheartscience]

I should add that I have no use for snobbery when it comes to anything, but particularly when it comes to reading.
As soon as someone turns his nose up at a certain genre, that tells me he isn't as widely read as he ought to be. And he never will be.

I'm a great fan of this C.S. Lewis quote:
“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence... But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Ditto your quote and C.S. Lewis' quote!

 

[rainwood]

Joel Stein likes to think he's a provocateur, but he's just a guy with opinions that get printed so consider the source.

A good story is a good story, and the Harry Potter books are good stories. They're not necessarily great writing (Rowling did improve as she went along though), but that's true for lots of popular fiction, including what is aimed at grown-ups. I haven't read "The Hunger Games' but I'm guessing it's a good story too.

 

[decodelighted]

wah wah wah ... I'm afraid people won't read MY book so I'll reject THEM before they reject ME.

zzzzzzz

 

[yennyfire]

I too love that C.S. Lewish post and three cheers to Circe's post! You hit the nail on the head. I'm also a voracious reader and like everything from autobiographies to sci-fi to the occasional well written romance.

My 7 year old son doesn't enjoy reading (yet) and had been begging to read the Harry Potter books (I'm not sure why, he couldn't really articulate it and I know for a fact that he's not seen the movies). I felt strongly that he is way too young to read them (yes, he can read the words, but I doubted the depth of his comprehension). I mentioned this to his teacher and she agreed with what I said, however....she urged me to let him read them since it was something he WANTED to read. She felt like it was worth encouraging the fact that he wanted to read. So, he is reading the first one and loving it. Yes, he asks me to help with ALL of the "funny" words (Dumbledore, Gringots, Voldemort, Bludgers, Quaffle...the list is endless) and I'm doing a lot more explaining than I do when he reads a Magic Treehouse Series book, but he's excited about reading and that's what matters.

All of this said, who cares what anyone else reads? Most people read to either educate themselves, expand their horizons or for entertainment, so what does it matter WHAT they read? I think this is just as true for adults as kids. These days, so many people just veg out in front of the TV and rarely read, so I think any book is a good book (in terms of getting someone to read).

 

[packrat]

I started reading "adult" books in 5th grade..so I think now at 37, I can read whatever I want. He's not the boss a'me.

If I saw an adult somewhere reading say...Nancy Drew or Trixie Belden or Little House books, I wouldn't think a thing of it b/c those are books I loved as a kid and still love now. And I do re read them, tho I admit the ND/TB books sometimes make me giggle and shake my head, but they're *fun* so who cares? I read what appeals to *me*, not some dude.

You'd just as easily find me sitting on the floor in the "adult" section of the library looking at the books as you would in the kids section looking for books I read as a kid. Drummer Hoff fired it off and Corduroy took it to the Island of the Blue Dolphins.

 

[HollyS]

Sometimes it isn't about how well a book is written. Sometimes the subject matter is the issue. Just because it is well written, doesn't mean it can't be, essentially, crap. There's nothing wrong with reading crap . . . I have . . . but I don't feel the need to justify it, or confuse it with great literature.

I haven't read the Hunger Games, for instance, but having had the premise explained to me (by a fan), I can assure you that I'm quite decidedly not interested, and I wonder just how appropriate it is for young readers.

Harry Potter is fine. But, I can't understand waiting in line for hours to get the books on the day they come out. Or camping out for the movie tickets.

As for Twi-hards . . . that whole 'thing' defies logic. As does every other tween OR adult vampire romance. Ditto for the zombie craze. The Twi movies simply suck; surely the books are better . . . right?

Would I judge a man for being a Twi-hard? Uh, yeah. Without a moment's hesitation. I might be wrong, but I'll still think he has lousy taste in reading material, and wonder what else he has lousy taste in.



I'm not defending the original guy who raised this stink. Don't know squat about him, but if this is important enough to him to publicly comment on, he has his own issues.

 

[Pandora II]

I am one of those who pre-ordered the new Harry Potters - I LOVE them and I can't wait till my daughter is old enough to have them as bedtime stories. I have the whole Narnia series unabridged on audio, and His Dark Materials in the bookcase.

I adore reading children's books - Arthur Ransome's are classics.

Since I read at least 2 books a week at least I reckon that I can read all genres. I'd find someone who read a diet of soft ****/adult romance far more weird.

 

[FrekeChild]

Hmmm...I've read all three series (The Hunger Games, Twilight, and HP) and two of them have a deeper darker issue than the other one.

Hint: There isn't much that's deep or dark when there are sparkly vampires running amok.

I really kind of hate how people keep bringing up that they are of the YA genre, and therefore aren't as...something....as adult literature. The battle between good and evil is relevant at any age (re: Harry Potter). And The Hunger Games?! Oppression by a totalitarian government/dystopia, starvation, post-apocalypse, accidental heroism, children killing children for entertainment of the privileged class?!

Hardly comparable to Twilight, where the "heroine's" biggest challenge is how to cover up her new vampire eyes and should she choose the hot werewolf or the cold sparkly vampire?

 

[AGBF]

Sometimes it isn't about how well a book is written. Sometimes the subject matter is the issue. Just because it is well written, doesn't mean it can't be, essentially, crap.

I was about to respond to packrat, saying that I don't think I started reading adult books until I was in sixth grade. (I remember upsetting someone at my elementary school, either my teacher or the librarian, when I included a synopsis of Gypsy, the autobiography of Gypsy Rose Lee, among the books I had read that month.) However, I have to agree that Gypsy was definitely not great literature! It was, however, illuminating to a child my age. I learned a lot from it, I'm sure...and I don't mean about sex. How could I have failed to learn about burlesque theatres and gain insight into stage door mothers by reading that? Sometimes when one reads a book it can open doors-even if it is not a great piece of literature-simply because it exposes the reader to new vistas.

C.S.Lewis exposed me early and happily to Narnia, by the way!

Deb/AGBF

 

[MissStepcut]

Harry Potter is fine. But, I can't understand waiting in line for hours to get the books on the day they come out. Or camping out for the movie tickets.

I can understand why it's not for everyone. But it's something my family has been doing since book 3 came out (I was a minor at that time) and it's a tradition I've continued with glee. I didn't go to the last movie on opening night; I was busy with law school, but I was a bit sad to miss out on the excitement.

 

[StacylikesSparkles]

You can pry Harry Potter out of my cold, dead, advanced-age hands.

quote]

This!

 

[lulu]

DH and I have this conversation frequently. He's a fan of kid lit and is always trying to entice me with it. I'm an avid reader, but primarily of nonfiction. I tried one of the Harry Potter books and thought it was nice, but it's for kids.

Anyone can read anything they want but I do not, in my heart of hearts, get it.

 

[Sparklelu]

As a child was reading according to my mother " at an 10 th grade level in 2nd gr" , I read everything and anything somes times twice!
i read all the time, i still do. I caught the Hunger games mania just recently. Saw the kids in school reading them but since I'm not Media Specialist any more was not clued into them. I read the first two weeks ago and last weekend reading Catching Fire& Mockingjay!
Today our school book fair was closing up and I hopped in and scooped up about 15 YA novels for the class room that I will read over the next few weeks. I do like to know what they are reading, plus with reluctant readers it's good to really be able to say this is good because....
Some people just like to be snobby about what is good reading and what is not and to them I quote a wise literature professor I had in college... . It's not what you read, but, that you read!!!

 

[packrat]

Deb-Stephen King's Pet Semetary was mine! I read them at home didn't start taking books to school until 6th grade when we started having study halls..and mom ended up having to send a note to school stating that it was ok.

I don't get the whole waiting in line for hours/camping out stuff, but Star Wars people do it for the movies-it seems a little odd to me..but that's just me. I've got more books I'd like to read/re read than I have time-I figure I'll get to whatever book is being ballyhooed eventually. Now..if it was an author actually *there* of the books I most love, then yeah, count me in line w/my sleeping bag and a cattle prod to keep everyone else away.

I have a friend that is a Twilight fanatic. When I first heard about the books I thought oh cool, I dig vampires, that's what I wanted to be when I was little instead of a princess or a model. I was thinking like..oh I don't know, Underworld type vampire/werewolf stuff..not sparkly vampires mincing around spreading pixie dust. I don't even know what that means, the vampires "sparkle"..WTF dude. Diamonds and gemstones sparkle, glittery fairy/pixie dust sparkles. Vampires are dark brooding sexy men and women that live for hundreds of years, not 16 year olds batting their eyes at each other tee hee he likes me giggle giggle ooohhh and he sparkles! That's my subjective opinion of crap. But I don't care if other people read it and dig it. Won't stop me from pointing and laughing at them tho.

 

[iLander]

I used to be a book snob.

In fiction, if it didn't win the Pulitzer or the Booker, I wasn't interested. The majority of my reading was non-fiction, for many years. Theories in architecture and urban planning was a favorite area (nothing to do with my work, BTW). After that, history and biography.

Then one day I just got tired. I wanted something light and fun, were nobody died and we didn't explore too deeply into anyone's psyche. I knew all I wanted to know about the interactions of people in planned versus unplanned community development.

So now I read a lot of chick lit; happy, goofy novels that are about as substantial as marshmallow.

I'm happy with that, and I can't begrudge anybody their reading choices, just as I hope no one judges me.

Whatever makes you happy.

 

[missy]

Wow, some people (Mr. Stein for one) have way too much time on their hands. I am with the people here who think this is some sort of publicity stunt for his upcoming book. I mean, who really cares what other people enjoy reading? As long as they're reading! I feel with all this twittering tweeting texting etc going on there's no time to read actual books so yay for any book reading at all!!

Personally I like it all. I enjoy YA, old adult,Sci Fi, fiction, non fiction, fantasy etc. I have never read the Twilight books but had the unfortunate experience of watching (part of) one of the movies. Blech. But that's me. I don't care if someone else loves it. I just may not take their next book/movie recommendation ofc but still to each their own!!


ETA: love that CS Lewis quote Haven! It's so true...I find the older I get the more true it becomes.

 

[HollyS]

Deb-Stephen King's Pet Semetary was mine! I read them at home didn't start taking books to school until 6th grade when we started having study halls..and mom ended up having to send a note to school stating that it was ok.

I don't get the whole waiting in line for hours/camping out stuff, but Star Wars people do it for the movies-it seems a little odd to me..but that's just me. I've got more books I'd like to read/re read than I have time-I figure I'll get to whatever book is being ballyhooed eventually. Now..if it was an author actually *there* of the books I most love, then yeah, count me in line w/my sleeping bag and a cattle prod to keep everyone else away.

I have a friend that is a Twilight fanatic. When I first heard about the books I thought oh cool, I dig vampires, that's what I wanted to be when I was little instead of a princess or a model. I was thinking like..oh I don't know, Underworld type vampire/werewolf stuff..not sparkly vampires mincing around spreading pixie dust. I don't even know what that means, the vampires "sparkle"..WTF dude. Diamonds and gemstones sparkle, glittery fairy/pixie dust sparkles. Vampires are dark brooding sexy men and women that live for hundreds of years, not 16 year olds batting their eyes at each other tee hee he likes me giggle giggle ooohhh and he sparkles! That's my subjective opinion of crap. But I don't care if other people read it and dig it. Won't stop me from pointing and laughing at them tho.

 

[Black Jade]

People read 'adult' books less and less in my experience because so many of them are a)uninteresting and b)pretentious. There are some glaring exceptions but way too much serious modern literature is written by people who don't believe in the importance of plot, would rather have their characters be relevant than interesting and who stick in boring and obvious 'symbolism' and who jam messages down reader's throats that no one cares about. as a result of this, many are not only fleeing to reading 'children's literature' but those who don't find that interesting still often won't read novels. People I know who are voracious readers (and very intelligent) often tell me that they haven't read a novel in years, but are swallowing biographies and history books instead.

Of course, only an idiot would deny that many 'children's' book are actually great literature. My short-list would include anything written by Beatrix Potter, anything written by Hans Christian Andersen, the original (not Disney), Peter Pan, Wind in the Willows, Winnie the Pooh and Mary Poppins (Beatrix Potter actually uses vocabulary in her picture books that many of the college students I teach don't understand and every single book I have listed here is beautifully written in terms of style). Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass. I would also add Charlotte's Web and The Borrowers and quite a few others that repay a re-reading even when you are in your fifties or sixties or seventies if you haven't looked at them since you were a child. Dr. Seuss has been mentioned here. He is another classic, as is Maurice Sendak. And what about Good Night Moon?

Children are actually very picky about what they read and before they are teenagers, can't be conned into saying they like something they don't because they think it will impress others. (As in "The Emperor's New Clothes", one of H. C. Andersen's classics). So something that children keep reading generation after generation is likelier to be a good book than something from the New York Times or New York Review of Book's catalogue of the latest intellectually a la mode flavors of the month.

Also, great books often migrate to the children's shelf in a generation or two. Gulliver's Travels, and many other so-called 'children's books' were initially written for adults.

 

[kenny]

Read what you like, not what you want to be "seen" reading.

 

[distracts]

I think Mr. Stein is a pretentious d-bag with no imagination. I have read many very good children's books and YA books, and many terrible adult books. And vice-versa. The quality of a book has nothing to do with the age-group at which it is targeted.

I'm also a huge sci-fi fan, and my experience from that is that anything regarded AT ALL as "genre" fiction is looked down upon. Even though some highly-acclaimed "literary" books could certainly fit in genre categories. For instance, The Time Traveler's Wife, which is CLEARLY sci-fi. I mean, hello, TIME TRAVEL. But because "literary" people "approve" of it, it is "literature." Because they regard it as exploring the human condition through a sci-fi trope which, guess what, many, MANY sci-fi books do.

I also think many people who disapprove of genre books or children's literature also disapprove of reading for fun. For them, I think, all reading should be taxing work. Which explains why I never like their books very much. I believe that reading can be elevating and enlightening while still being fun - and I believe sometimes it can be fun without being elevating or enlightening, and that's okay too. I can also go watch an art-house film and come home and watch an episode of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, and can appreciate both of them (though the latter is just like putting sugar straight into your brain and I can only tolerate one episode at a time, but it's GREAT for making me feel happy!).

As for people not getting the excitement/camping out for books - you just don't have a fannish personality about that thing. That's okay. But it's really no crazier than people getting insanely excited over their sports teams, or, for that matter, jewelry. People are fannish about what they're fannish about, and it's not weird, it's just something that people do. The bias against excited sci-fi and literature fans is an anti-geek bias and I really don't like it. The same sort of bias is not held against more mainstream kinds of fans, such as sports enthusiasts who never miss a game and have all the team stats memorized. (I say as someone who has been attending sci-fi conventions since I was 12, who is engaged to someone who couldn't dream of attending a sci-fi convention but has hockey season tickets and panics if he is even a minute later to a game.)

Haven, I LOVE that C.S. Lewis quote. I'd never seen it before. Wonderful!

People read 'adult' books less and less in my experience because so many of them are a)uninteresting and b)pretentious. There are some glaring exceptions but way too much serious modern literature is written by people who don't believe in the importance of plot, would rather have their characters be relevant than interesting and who stick in boring and obvious 'symbolism' and who jam messages down reader's throats that no one cares about.

Ugggh this. I never again want read another book that is heralded as "great" only to find out it is a string of disjointed randomness with unintentionally horrible style and typos.