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About those "expiration" dates ... NYT

kenny

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I thought I knew all this, but found some surprises.

The Food Expiration Dates You Should Actually Follow​

The first thing you should know? The dates, as we know them, have nothing to do with safety. J. Kenji López-Alt explains.

By J. Kenji López-Alt
Jan. 24, 2023

Have you been reacquainting yourself with the forgotten spices and fusty beans from the depths of your pantry? How fusty is toofusty? When is the right time to throw something out? And what about fresh ingredients? If I’m trying to keep supermarket trips to a minimum, how long can my eggs, dairy and produce keep?

Here’s the first thing you should know: Expiration dates are not expiration dates.

Food product dating, as the U.S. Department of Agriculture calls it, is completely voluntary for all products (with the exception of baby food, more on that later). Not only that, but it has nothing to do with safety. It acts solely as the manufacturer’s best guess as to when its product will no longer be at peak quality, whatever that means. Food manufacturers also tend to be rather conservative with those dates, knowing that not all of us keep our pantries dark and open our refrigerators as minimally as necessary. (I, for one, would never leave the fridge door open for minutes at a time as I contemplate what to snack on.)

Let’s start with the things you definitely don’t have to worry about. Vinegars, honey, vanilla or other extracts, sugar, salt, corn syrup and molasses will last virtually forever with little change in quality. Regular steel-cut or rolled oats will last for a year or so before they start to go rancid, but parcooked oats (or instant oats) can last nearly forever. (Same with grits versus instant grits.)

Flour​

White flour is almost certainly fine to use, no matter its age.Whole-wheat and other whole-grain flours can acquire a metallic or soapy odor within a few months. This whiter-equals-longer rule of thumb is true for nonground grains as well. Refined white rice, for example, will last for years, while brown rice will last only for months.
This is because unrefined grains contain fats, and fats are the first thing to go off when it comes to dry pantry staples. Tree nuts, typically high in fat, will go rancid within a few months in the pantry. (Store them in the freezer to extend that to a few years.)

Bread​

Shelf-stable supermarket breads made with oils (and preservatives) can stay soft for weeks in the fridge, but the lean, crusty sourdough from the corner bakery will be stale by the next day and probably start to mold before the week is up. (I slice and freeze my fancy bread, taking it out a slice at a time to toast.)

Beans​

Dried beans and lentils will remain safe to eat for years after purchase, but they’ll become tougher and take longer to cook as time goes on. If you aren’t sure how old your dried beans are, avoid using them in recipes that include acidic ingredients like molasses or tomatoes. Acid can drastically increase the length of time it takes beans to soften.

Spices​

We all make fun of our parents for using spices that expired in the 1980s, but, other than losing potency, there’s nothing criminal in using them (unless you consider flavorless chicken paprikash a crime).

What about canned and jarred goods?​

As a rule, metal lasts longer than glass, which lasts longer than plastic.

So long as there is no outward sign of spoilage (such as bulging or rust), or visible spoilage when you open it (such as cloudiness, moldiness or rotten smells), your canned fruits, vegetables and meats will remain as delicious and palatable as the day you bought them for years (or in the case of, say, Vienna sausages at least as good as they were to begin with). The little button on the top of jarred goods, which will bulge if there has been significant bacterial action inside the jar, is still the best way to tell if the contents are going to be all right to eat. Depending on storage, that could be a year or a decade. Similarly, cans of soda will keep their fizz for years, glass bottles for up to a year and plastic bottles for a few months. (Most plastics are gas-permeable.)

Oils​

Oils, even rancidity-prone unrefined oils, stored in sealed cans are nearly indestructible (as evidenced by the two-gallon tin of roasted sesame oil that I’ve been working through since 2006). Oils in sealed glass bottles, less so. Oil in open containers can vary greatly in shelf life, but all will last longer if you don’t keep them near or above your stovetop, where heat can get to them.

How do you tell if your oil is good? The same way you would with most foods: Follow your nose. Old oil will start to develop metallic, soapy or in some cases — such as with canola oil — fishy smells. Don’t trust your nose? Put a drop on your fingertip and squeeze it. Rancid oil will feel tacky as opposed to slick.

Also from the oil-and-vinegar aisle: Salad dressings will last for months or over a year in the fridge, especially if they come in bottles with narrow squeeze openings (as opposed to open-mouthed jars).

Condiments​

Mustard lasts forever. Ketchup will start to turn color before the year is out, but will still remain palatable. Contrary to popular belief, mayonnaise has an exceptionally long shelf life, especially when it doesn’t contain ingredients like fresh lemon juice or garlic. (High concentrations of fat, salt and acid are all enemies of bacteria and mold.)

The international aisle is a den of long-lasting sauces, pickles and condiments. I’ve yet to find the quality inflection point for oyster sauce, pickled chiles, chile sauces (like sambal oelek or Sriracha), fermented bean sauces (like hoisin or Sichuan broad-bean chile paste) or fish sauce. Soy sauce has a reputation for longevity, but I keep mine in the refrigerator to fend off the fishy aromas that can start to develop after a few months in the pantry.

Eggs​

We all know what a rotten egg smells like, right? Why else would it be a benchmark for describing so many other bad smells? But how many times have you actually smelled one: Once? Twice? Never? Probably never, at least according to the impromptu poll I conducted on Twitter. That’s because it takes a long time for eggs to go bad.

How long? The Julian date printed on each carton (that’s the three-digit number ranging from 001 for Jan. 1 to 365 for Dec. 31) represents the date the eggs were packed, which, in most parts of the country, can be up to 30 days after the egg was actually laid. The sell-by stamp can be another 30 days after the pack date
That’s 60 full days! But odds are good that they’ll still be palatable for several weeks longer than that.

Milk​

We’ve all accidentally poured some clumpy spoiled milk into our cereal bowls. It seems as if our milk is perfectly fine, until it’s suddenly not. How does it go bad overnight? The truth is, it doesn’t. From the moment you open a carton of milk, bacteria start to digest lactose (milk sugars), and produce acidic byproducts. Once its pH hits 4.6, that’s when casein (milk protein) clumps.

Want longer-lasting milk? Look for “ultrahigh temperature,” or “UHT,” on the label. Milk in these cartons has been pasteurized at high temperatures (275 degrees Fahrenheit: hot enough to destroy not only viruses and bacteria, but bacterial spores as well), then aseptically pumped and sealed into cartons. Most organic milk brands undergo UHT. (Bonus: In the blind taste tests I’ve conducted, most people preferred the sweeter flavor of UHT milk.)

Baby Food​

And as for baby food — the only food with federally mandated use-by dating — that expiration date represents the latest date that the manufacturer can guarantee that the food contains not less of each nutrient than what is printed on the label, or, in the case of formula, that it can still pass through an ordinary rubber nipple.

Rest assured that, if there’s a zombie apocalypse, you’ll still be able to eat the baby food and gain some nutritional benefit.
 

kenny

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Speaking of expiration dates - I'll add something that will surprise many.
Wheat can last for decades - that is if the wheat kernels are not yet milled into flour.
I buy the kernels, and I have a mill to make flour moments before using it to bake bread.

Since few people do this, wheat kernels are hard to find.
When I started shopping for the kernels I was told to call a local Mormon church.
Because of their beliefs about "end of days", they are masters at stocking up on survival gear, including food.
Wheat kernels are one of the things they stockpile because they don't have to throw it away as often as many other food items.

IMO the taste and nutrition of goods baked with freshly-milled flour is superior to that of even fresh bakery bread.
I think that's because bakeries don't bother milling their own flour.

The NYT article states, "White flour is almost certainly fine to use, no matter its age.
Whole-wheat and other whole-grain flours can acquire a metallic or soapy odor within a few months."


That reminds me of that legend that ants won't eat Hostess Twinkies; they're too smart.

The reason whole wheat flour goes bad so fast is it has more healthy stuff that is also good and yummy to bacteria, fungus, mold, etc.
But those microscopic guys and gals are smart; they turn their noses up at white flour because it is, comparatively, dead and not edible if you care about your health.

Actually whole wheat flour is not really whole wheat.
Some parts are removed to extend the shelf life.
I want to eat the removed parts, because those pickey microscopic geniuses want to eat them first.

Years ago I paid $250 for my WonderMill.
Today it's $350.
But what's your health worth?

BTW, the hand crank mill is what the 'end of days' people buy, since it doesn't need electricity.

Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Powerful-Ele...2c-b6b2-5061f966f8f7&pd_rd_i=B000CPJKWC&psc=1

I first bought my wheat kernels (hard red variety) from Honneyville in a 5 pound can.
Now I buy it in a 50 lb tub.
They are often out of stock, so I put my email address on their waiting list.

Other places sell it too, like some Whole Foods Markets.
 
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YadaYadaYada

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I think now more than ever with the cost of food rising, consumers just need to practice some common sense with expiration dates. For example, I love to buy the marked down meat they put out in the morning. Even if I don’t get to it by the expiration date, it’s still fine. If it seems around here that a lot of folks pass that meat up because they won’t get to it by the date on the sticker but for 50% off, I’ll take my chances.

Organic milk seems to last well past the expiration date so it’s easy to justify the higher cost when it doesn’t need to be replaced as often.
 

kenny

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I think now more than ever with the cost of food rising, consumers just need to practice some common sense with expiration dates. ...

Small nit ... The NYT article showed me that my "common sense" was deficient.
I'm open to getting educated by those likely to have expertise.

I like that saying, "Common sense is not so common".
 
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Wink

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One of my friends was the outdoor/camping/etc writer the Idaho Statesman many many years ago. In one of his hiking/camping columns he suggested bringing fresh eggs if you could carry the extra weight. He commented, don't worry about them being fresh enough to eat, if one rots before the end of your trip you will quickly know it by the smell. No smell, eat it up.
 

Karl_K

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Funny you mentioned this I just did a can clean up and threw away the very old stuff.
Someone was giving me a hard time about keeping cans that expired in 2019 and 2020.
I just laughed.
High acid stuff that has tomato or fruit or other high acid stuff I am real careful about but pretty much anything else is going to be fine if undamaged up to at least 4 years after the expiration date in my experience.
When I dump the contents out I check the can liner if it looks good and it smells ok then Im good to go.
You millage might vary I am just saying what I do.
 

pearlsngems

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I have a Mockmill but recently ran out of hard red wheat berries. I'm trying Honeyville thanks to Kenny's post.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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rotation and shopping the pantry works for us
when we used to go camping a lot i used to date the top of the can/packet and if it was still there in a year i would sub it into the kitchen pantry to get used shortly

at work they buy a ton of eggs
2nds from a local egg farm
we dont generally refridgerate eggs here in NZ (or we didnt from where im from) and we use so many at work we have high turn over but the other day when i was boiling a pot load for the next days samwhiches we had a few floaters
hmmm
eggs are so exspensive and in such short supply .....
so i fished them out and boiled them in another pot
when i came to peel and mash them the little isolation pot of eggs were all ok

here in NZ we have best before and use before and people get those two muddled

our baked goods at work (biscuits and loaves, fruit cake, fruit pies etc) have a one week use before date on them and two days before we mark them down
after that we can take them home, they are fine for at least another week (although if i get a pie i freeze it as soon as i get home)

milk is the one thing im real careful of
ive been sick from old milk

recently i found some chicken in the fridge that was a bit dodgy
dang ! :angryfire:
i was about to rush out the door to go to work
our groceries are delivered in a refridgerated truck so the chicken would have been at room temp for maybe 10min at most while i put everything away
i load all the prershibales into the fridge first and then latter transfer the meat to the freezer latter than day after ive made room in the freezer but i had just missed this one packet

so i ummed and arred and googled, looking at the $$$$$$ on the chicken label

it was more than 2 days past the date (more like 4 days)
i chucked it into the freezer and went to work


anyway a few weeks latter (on a night where i wasnt going to work the next day) i cooked it for dinner
very hot and very cooked
we were fine
it tasted fine
but i would not want to make a habit of it
 

kenny

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Wink

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we dont generally refridgerate eggs here in NZ

I am curious. Is there a reason not to refrigerate them? I grew up with them in the fridge, and have always done so myself. Except when I used to backpack. When I was young and strong, I carried stupid heavy packs, which always included a pound or two of eggs I never had a single one go bad, although more than a few were broken and made horrible messes until I learned to put them in a large zip lock bag...
 

Lookinagain

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I am curious. Is there a reason not to refrigerate them? I grew up with them in the fridge, and have always done so myself. Except when I used to backpack. When I was young and strong, I carried stupid heavy packs, which always included a pound or two of eggs I never had a single one go bad, although more than a few were broken and made horrible messes until I learned to put them in a large zip lock bag...
I remember reading about this somewhere. I think it's a question of whether the eggs are washed or not. If they are washed, they need refrigeration if I remember correctly. Let me see if I can find that info again and I'll link it.

Edit to add link
 
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Ionysis

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I ignore all expiration dates.
I go with my instincts about expired items.

Me too. It horrifies my husband who throws out anything he finds past the date. I hide things so he can’t!
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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I am curious. Is there a reason not to refrigerate them? I grew up with them in the fridge, and have always done so myself. Except when I used to backpack. When I was young and strong, I carried stupid heavy packs, which always included a pound or two of eggs I never had a single one go bad, although more than a few were broken and made horrible messes until I learned to put them in a large zip lock bag...

i think its because you guys have salmonala (excuse spelling) in egg farms
i did read something recently
and im not sure perhaps we are ment to keep them in the fridge now too ?

when i was a kid my friend's dad kept chocks and mum brought our eggs from them
Mrs Crooks always just kept the eggs in the wash house
mum kept them in the cubpoard
i am from the south island
i do notice up here in the north island some people do keep them in the fridge
at work we only put them in the fridge over a long weekend as there is no much residual heat from the oven and pie warmer going all day that when we turn the aircon off(and the oven and the pie warmer) to go home at night the heat builds up again through the night
often when im on open on a saturday morning i worry we have left the oven on all night because when i open the front door all this heat comes out - we ahve neevr left the oven on - but sometimes we forget to turn the aircon off

last xmas we had a rotton egg
gross me out
we wraped it up in a paper bag and threw it in the council bin outside the shop
 

kenny

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I remember reading about this somewhere. I think it's a question of whether the eggs are washed or not. If they are washed, they need refrigeration if I remember correctly. Let me see if I can find that info again and I'll link it.

Edit to add link

Thanks for posting that egg safety link.
I learned a lot. :dance:

Once again my 'common sense' was deficient.
Also, science marches on so new info can bubble up at any time.
 

Wink

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i think its because you guys have salmonala (excuse spelling) in egg farms

Thank you for this information. I also read the article @Lookinagain sent. If I was still backpacking, I would only take pasteurized eggs with me. Of course, if I was still backpacking, I would no longer be carrying the 80 to 100 pound packs I used to carry. I did learn to trim those down as I got further and further from my Marine Corps days. Many of my trips trips were solo, and when I went with others, I learned how to trim the weight somewhat, but my friends still thought I was carrying stupid heavy packs. As often happens, they were totally correct. I can still pick up a hundred pounds, but I might not make it across the street, let alone up a mountain...
 

pearlsngems

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You can pasteurize eggs at home using a sous vide immersion cooker.
Set it for 75 minutes at 135º F.

I bought our sous vide immersion cooker specifically for this purpose. I like eating eggs that are soft boiled or sunny side up without the risk of salmonella.
 

Lookinagain

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You can pasteurize eggs at home using a sous vide immersion cooker.
Set it for 75 minutes at 135º F.

I bought our sous vide immersion cooker specifically for this purpose. I like eating eggs that are soft boiled or sunny side up without the risk of salmonella.

yes, I have a sous vide immersion as well but never thought I was pasteurizing. Thanks for that info.
 

GreenPapaya

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Hmmm I just found an unopened packet of smoked salmon in the fridge that was expired or best by 1/20/2023 (it just had a date). Wondering if I'll die a horrible painful death if i eat it? Or wished I had died? It looks okay, maybe I'll smell it tomorrow? I hate to waste food, especially expensive food:cry2::(2
Internet search says no...
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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Hmmm I just found an unopened packet of smoked salmon in the fridge that was expired or best by 1/20/2023 (it just had a date). Wondering if I'll die a horrible painful death if i eat it? Or wished I had died? It looks okay, maybe I'll smell it tomorrow? I hate to waste food, especially expensive food:cry2::(2
Internet search says no...

could you fry or grill it super hot ?
 

Ionysis

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Hmmm I just found an unopened packet of smoked salmon in the fridge that was expired or best by 1/20/2023 (it just had a date). Wondering if I'll die a horrible painful death if i eat it? Or wished I had died? It looks okay, maybe I'll smell it tomorrow? I hate to waste food, especially expensive food:cry2::(2
Internet search says no...

With that you’ll smell straight away if it’s off. And you will not WANT to eat that! If it smells ok and tastes ok - it’s ok.
 

dk168

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If we are not supposed to refrigerate eggs, how come an egg holder is always included in new fridges that one can buy? :confused:

I pay attention to the expiration/use by/use before dates for the following:
  • Fresh poultry especially chicken
  • Fresh meat
  • Fresh seafoods
  • Dry food high in fat content as rancid fat is horrid
  • Food without preservatives once opened
I had always used fresh and in date produce when I was doing pop up kitchen events.

For myself, I am more relaxed when it comes to expiration dates.

DK :))
 

Tartansparkles

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Some of our (UK) supermarkets are doing away with expiration dates on milk and some fresh produce, advocating for the sniff test instead. I'm in favour of the approach as being a good way to try and cut food waste.
 

pearlsngems

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You can also use plain yogurt for a long time after its expiration date. It might become a bit more tart due to the culture, although I have not noticed that.
 

telephone89

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Hmmm I just found an unopened packet of smoked salmon in the fridge that was expired or best by 1/20/2023 (it just had a date). Wondering if I'll die a horrible painful death if i eat it? Or wished I had died? It looks okay, maybe I'll smell it tomorrow? I hate to waste food, especially expensive food:cry2::(2
Internet search says no...

Smoking is a form of preservation, and if its sealed in a packet, a week after is unlikely to have made much of a difference. Do check it and smell it, but if nothing seems off I'd probably eat it lol.

I personally have a pretty flexible relationship with expiration dates. There are a few things I really don't like pushing past (like the pack of open deli meat my husband ate 2 weeks after it was opened). Every now and then I do a fridge clean out and check some of the items. I recently found a hot sauce that I think said it expired in 2010? I havent even been in this house that long so I must have brought it lol. That got tossed, not necessarily because of the date but because obviously I'm not using it very much! I don't think I've ever checked an expiry date on a can.
 

TooPatient

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If we are not supposed to refrigerate eggs, how come an egg holder is always included in new fridges that one can buy? :confused:

I pay attention to the expiration/use by/use before dates for the following:
  • Fresh poultry especially chicken
  • Fresh meat
  • Fresh seafoods
  • Dry food high in fat content as rancid fat is horrid
  • Food without preservatives once opened
I had always used fresh and in date produce when I was doing pop up kitchen events.

For myself, I am more relaxed when it comes to expiration dates.

DK :))

Eggs have a protective coating called bloom. They all come with that when the bird lays. If the egg is not washed, that bloom is still on protecting the egg. Most (all?) commercial eggs in the US are thoroughly cleaned before being packed to sell. Once the bloom is off, they are susceptible to bacteria getting through the porous shell. I keep my fresh chicken and duck eggs in a holder on the counter. I'm told they last better this way. Any that need cleaned due to a mess yet washed and refrigerated then used first.
 

Lookinagain

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Eggs have a protective coating called bloom. They all come with that when the bird lays. If the egg is not washed, that bloom is still on protecting the egg. Most (all?) commercial eggs in the US are thoroughly cleaned before being packed to sell. Once the bloom is off, they are susceptible to bacteria getting through the porous shell. I keep my fresh chicken and duck eggs in a holder on the counter. I'm told they last better this way. Any that need cleaned due to a mess yet washed and refrigerated then used first.

The U.S. does require all eggs to be washed before sale. It's a USDA requirement. So that is why all the eggs in the U.S. are refrigerated.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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If we are not supposed to refrigerate eggs, how come an egg holder is always included in new fridges that one can buy? :confused:

I pay attention to the expiration/use by/use before dates for the following:
  • Fresh poultry especially chicken
  • Fresh meat
  • Fresh seafoods
  • Dry food high in fat content as rancid fat is horrid
  • Food without preservatives once opened
I had always used fresh and in date produce when I was doing pop up kitchen events.

For myself, I am more relaxed when it comes to expiration dates.

DK :))

its put there to p*ss the rest of us off :lol-2:
back i the day when white wear was made in my home town we had this thing called a butter conditioner to keep it at a spreadable tempurature
alas that seems to be an atiquated feature now days is gone now

i think one of the worst things is off nuts
yuck :sick:
i keep my pine nuts, peacans and linseed in the freezer now
 

kenny

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Lookinagain

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Is this it?


654.png




I had one of those once. It worked for a week or so but the butter then got moldy. I don't know why, and I don't think I did anything wrong. So I'm not really sure how long butter lasts in these. I got rid of mine, but for $15 it is probably worth a try for someone else.
 
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