A whole load of questions...

[blisstheabyss]

Hello all. I''m new to this forum. I''ve poked around for the last week or so trying to gather as much additional information as possible. I''m going to propose to my girlfriend before too long and I''ve been trying to educate myself as best as I can. I''ve done the standard online research and I understand the 4 Cs, etc. I''ve gone to a few different jewelers in my town; several shopping mall type shops and one "wholesale" place, Distinctive Diamonds.

Let me take a step back first and say that my girlfriend has casually mentioned that "anything more than 1 carat is money spent on extravagance" and she also said she''d like a "simple" platinum band. She knows that I have a budget (~$3k). I know that she would rather have money spent on a quality, well-cut diamond, so I''m learning toward a better diamond on a white gold band - even still, I obviously won''t be able to hit the 1 carat mark.

Distinctive Diamonds have the best deals I''ve seen so far. I found a band I like a great deal for $365. I saw two diamonds that were near my budget and quite nice: .72 ct, F, SI1, BR for $2295 and a .80 G, SI1, BR for $2695. Both are ideal cut, though the smaller diamond is slightly better (forgive me, I don''t have the exact specs).

This seems like a good value to me. Thoughts?

What''s really bothering me here is my own personal pride. For some reason, .72 seems a lot smaller than .80, even though there''s a very small difference visually. The larger diamond is stretching my budget, especially with the holidays approaching. I have heard that shopping for a diamond towards the end of the month is a good strategy, as they may be trying to maximize their monthly quota. I''m not sure I''d have the same luck at a wholesale jeweler, though.

I would reallly appreciate any thoughts you all may have. I imagine I''m stressing about this much more than my future fiance ever will, but I want to get this right.

Thanks for reading!
Chris

 

[neatfreak]

First things first, wholesalers don't sell to the public. Period. So they are either misleading you to get your business, or lying to the IRS.

Second, cut is the most important factor and will make a diamond really sparkle.

Third, 3/4 of a carat, whether .72 or .80 is a great size and nothing to be ashamed of. I would focus more on what you can afford and the dimensions of the stone than the number.

Fourth, who are these stones certified by? And WHO is calling them ideal cut? Do you have the other specs?

Fifth, try some online vendors like Whiteflash or Good Old Gold, your money will go far and they are honest, with a return policy and 100% upgrade.

Sixth, you can certainly drop the color quite a bit (in an ideal round it's pretty safe to go down to an H,I, or J) to get more bang for your buck size wise.

Here's one I would consider if you want a jump in size. The price will also be 5% less if you pay by bankwire:

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1445184.htm

 

[stone-cold11]

First off, which lab graded the stones you were looking at? GIA and AGS are the 2 most consistent labs, so their graded stones will cost slightly more. EGL has a tendency for looser grading in color and clarity, so you might be buying a lower grade in color and clarity than what you thought to be.

That said, your color could go down to H to get a bigger diamond and still look plenty white. F is in the colorless region and GHIJ is the near colorless region.

EDT: Ditto what neat said, slower by 1 min...

 

[stone-cold11]

A quick check on WF, you can get a tiffany style 4/6 prongs WG simple solitaire ring for 250, and a 0.778c ACA H SI1 for probably under USD2750 with PSer''s discount if you do wire transfer.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 10/21/2008 1:15:36 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
A quick check on WF, you can get a tiffany style 4/6 prongs WG simple solitaire ring for 250, and a 0.778c ACA H SI1 for probably under USD2750 with PSer''s discount if you do wire transfer.

And a return policy, upgrade policy, and depending on whether you choose to pay sales tax on out of state purchases or not (but legally you should...) potentially no sales tax too...

 

[blisstheabyss]

Thanks for the responses and advice. I misspoke when I said "wholesaler". They were previously a diamond wholesaler who decided to "switch to retail", blah blah blah. Their website is www.distinctivediamondsinc.com. They are legit and they seem to have pretty decent prices, at least on the diamonds themselves.

The specs of the diamonds I looked at are as follows:

.80 G/SI1 GIA certified
"very good cut"
depth 61.4%
table 60%
very good polish
excellent symmetry
$2695.00

.72ct F/SI1 EGL cert
"ideal cut"
depth 59.7%
table 58%
excellent polish
excellent symmetry
$2295.00

Interesting that you note that EGL is looser in their grade, which leads me to believe that, while one may be "very good" and the other "ideal", they may not actually be too dissimilar. Would you agree?

I''m reluctant to order a diamond online without being able to see it first. I know that''s the line that any B&M shop would tell me, and maybe I''m old-fashioned, but I have a hard time shaking that thought.

 

[stone-cold11]

Can you post the crown and pavilion angles or depth of the 2 stones you are considering for us to judge?

Cut grading is not necessary loose between the 2 labs, only the color and clarity grades are in question.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/21/2008 1:08:28 PM
Author: neatfreak
First things first, wholesalers don''t sell to the public. Period. So they are either misleading you to get your business, or lying to the IRS.

Second, cut is the most important factor and will make a diamond really sparkle.

Third, 3/4 of a carat, whether .72 or .80 is a great size and nothing to be ashamed of. I would focus more on what you can afford and the dimensions of the stone than the number.

Fourth, who are these stones certified by? And WHO is calling them ideal cut? Do you have the other specs?

Fifth, try some online vendors like Whiteflash or Good Old Gold, your money will go far and they are honest, with a return policy and 100% upgrade.

Sixth, you can certainly drop the color quite a bit (in an ideal round it''s pretty safe to go down to an H,I, or J) to get more bang for your buck size wise.

Here''s one I would consider if you want a jump in size. The price will also be 5% less if you pay by bankwire:

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1445184.htm

Ditto - we will need for each diamond please,

depth %
table%
crown angle
pavilion angle
polish and symmetry grades
girdle thickness
diameter measurement
fluorescence if applicable.

You can usually get this info from the report.

 

[blisstheabyss]

Here''s more info!! Thanks so much for your help and patience.

.80ct: Crown Depth 14% Pavillion Depth 44%

.72ct: Crown Depth 16% Pavillion Depth 44% Rich

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 10/23/2008 9:15:16 AM
Author: blisstheabyss
Here''s more info!! Thanks so much for your help and patience.

.80ct: Crown Depth 14% Pavillion Depth 44% depth 61.4% table 60%

.72ct: Crown Depth 16% Pavillion Depth 44% Rich depth 59.7% table 58%

0.8ct looks bad, scored a HCA of 5.2.

0.72ct does not compute as you can see, with a total depth of only 59.7%, the total of crown and pavilion depth is 60%, even if it is round off error, the girdle is dangerously thin.

Not good buy in both cases.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/23/2008 9:15:16 AM
Author: blisstheabyss
Here's more info!! Thanks so much for your help and patience.

.80ct: Crown Depth 14% Pavillion Depth 44%

.72ct: Crown Depth 16% Pavillion Depth 44% Rich

Thank you!

I would pass honestly, you can do better. Here are some numbers that some PSers use to find a nicely cut round diamond.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above
note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Further help with angles.

Here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 10/22/2008 5:08:44 PM
Author: blisstheabyss

I'm reluctant to order a diamond online without being able to see it first. I know that's the line that any B&M shop would tell me, and maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I have a hard time shaking that thought.

You can still "shop in person" while using one of the very well vetted pricescope vendors. I am curious as to why you say this place is "legit", is it a friend of a friend or something? What makes you say they are legit?

If you are in New York, I have personally worked with Mark at Engagement Rings Direct, as have many on this forum. He is in the diamond district and you'd have to make an appointment because he's not on the street level, but it's worth it. His prices are great and HE is a gem.

Another option is to check out Good Old Gold on Long Island, they are both an internet vendor AND have a retail shop.

Both of those vendors are very well known here and have many happy customers. And you could see the stones in person too.

 

[blisstheabyss]

I say he''s "legit", just because the whole "wholesaler to retailer" thing sounds a little funny. Also based on an old thread that I read.

I''m not in in NY, so checking out those shops isn''t really an option.

Thanks again for the advice. I must say that now I feel like I''m in way over my head.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 10/23/2008 10:21:27 AM
Author: blisstheabyss
I say he's 'legit', just because the whole 'wholesaler to retailer' thing sounds a little funny. Also based on an old thread that I read.


I'm not in in NY, so checking out those shops isn't really an option.


Thanks again for the advice. I must say that now I feel like I'm in way over my head.

Sorry there, thought distinctive diamonds was in NY for some reason.

Personally, I'm not impressed with what they are showing you. Would you consider buying from an online vendor if they sent you the stone for inspection first? Most of the vendors would be more than happy to do that with a deposit of some sort. That's an option.

I also personally wouldn't base my opinion on legitness from random post from 2004 saying they are "for real" and sell "sparkly earrings"...there are many many stores that are legit jewelry stores but where people are still getting ripped off on a daily basis, KWIM? Also if you notice BOTH of those posters registered on THAT DAY, made ONE POST, and then disappeared. THAT sounds fishy to me!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/23/2008 10:21:27 AM
Author: blisstheabyss
I say he's 'legit', just because the whole 'wholesaler to retailer' thing sounds a little funny. Also based on an old thread that I read.

I'm not in in NY, so checking out those shops isn't really an option.

Thanks again for the advice. I must say that now I feel like I'm in way over my head.

Ok here is a way you could approach this purchase, a couple of suggestions.

Firstly, you could ask your jeweller to show you some AGS0 cut grade diamonds and GIA Excellent. AGS0 should be top performers, GIA Excellent you may need to evaluate a bit more carefully - for that you can use this.

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

This is the Holloway Cut Advisor. The aim is to use it to eliminate lesser performing diamonds. You enter the info requested, depth, table, crown angle, pavilion angle ( or percents) then run it through and see how it scores. The aim is to usually score 2 or below, or above 2 if the diamond has top symmetry and you like the stone, then choose from there which out of those you like best. You could write the info down and do this at home, or if you have access to a computer at your jewellers or he would let you use his, you could do this while you look.

Or you can do the same with any diamond you like that he may show you, use the HCA to get an idea of how well it is cut. Of course your own eyes are the most important thing, make sure you check out your contenders away from the store lights to make sure you like the stone in everyday lighting.