A second request for opinions

[nangoff]

This is a second request on whether this offering is a good value. I received a couple of replies (I'm truly greatful) but could I get a couple more?

Thank you,

Gerry

I appologize if I ask a question or two that may be "forboten", but I am brand new to this list (just discovered you 1/2 hour ago) and I need an opinion please on an item I'm considering buying.

The item is a Tiffany & Co., three stone, platinum setting ring with round brilliant diamonds as follows:

Center: 0.77 ct, color "G", Clarity "VS2", Depth 62.0%, Table 57.0%, Culet - None, Crown 35.1 degrees, Pavilion 43.6%, Girdle thin to medium - faceted, Polish - Very Good, Symmetry - Very Good, Ultraviolet - none.

Side: 0.33 ct, color "G", Clarity "VS2", Depth 60.5%, Table 56.0%, Culet - None, Crown 34.1 degrees, Pavilion 43.4%, Girdle thin to medium - faceted, Polish - Excellent, Symmetry - Excellent, Ultraviolet - none.

Side: .32 ct, color "G", Clarity "VS2", Depth 61.3%, Table 56.0%, Culet - None, Crown 34.3 degrees, Pavilion 43.1%, Girdle thin - faceted, Polish - Very Good, Symmetry - Very Good, Ultraviolet - none.

The price is $6,000 for the ring.

I can tell by your posts on this list that there is some serious knowledge here that I'd like to absorb.

Please give me your thoughts.

Thanks to the list.

GG

 

[derekinla]

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On 3/26/2004 1:22:05 PM nangoff wrote:

This is a second request on whether this offering is a good value. I received a couple of replies (I'm truly greatful) but could I get a couple more?

Thank you,

Gerry

I appologize if I ask a question or two that may be 'forboten', but I am brand new to this list (just discovered you 1/2 hour ago) and I need an opinion please on an item I'm considering buying.

The item is a Tiffany & Co., three stone, platinum setting ring with round brilliant diamonds as follows:

Center: 0.77 ct, color 'G', Clarity 'VS2', Depth 62.0%, Table 57.0%, Culet - None, Crown 35.1 degrees, Pavilion 43.6%, Girdle thin to medium - faceted, Polish - Very Good, Symmetry - Very Good, Ultraviolet - none.

Side: 0.33 ct, color 'G', Clarity 'VS2', Depth 60.5%, Table 56.0%, Culet - None, Crown 34.1 degrees, Pavilion 43.4%, Girdle thin to medium - faceted, Polish - Excellent, Symmetry - Excellent, Ultraviolet - none.

Side: .32 ct, color 'G', Clarity 'VS2', Depth 61.3%, Table 56.0%, Culet - None, Crown 34.3 degrees, Pavilion 43.1%, Girdle thin - faceted, Polish - Very Good, Symmetry - Very Good, Ultraviolet - none.

The price is $6,000 for the ring.

I can tell by your posts on this list that there is some serious knowledge here that I'd like to absorb.

Please give me your thoughts.

Thanks to the list.

GG

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I am assuming the ring is from a third party and not being offered directly by Tiffany & Co? The price seems too good to be true in light of their usual mark-ups. Mind you if you purchase a Tiffany & Co. ring from a third party, the lifetime warranty/servicing does NOT transfer to the new owner. As for the quality of the stones, I am not a big fan of the center stone. The 35 degree crown angle and the 43 degree pavillion angles means that the stone is a "steep deep". When you combine that with the 62% depth percentage, it means that there is excess weight in the vertical dimension that is going "unseen". In otherwords, the face up diameter of the stone will be less than that of a well cut ideal 0.77 carat round brilliant stone. Furthermore, such stones generally do not perform as well in terms of light return/brilliance. Unless the Tiffany name has some symbolic or personal signigicance, I think you could build a much better ring with superideal hearts and arrows for less than $6000. Keep us posted!!

 

[Patty]

Derek, I think the pavillion listed is a percentage, not a degree. I saw this pointed out on another thread.

 

[nangoff]

Derek and Patty,

The pavillion depth is listed in Percent on the Tiffany documents that came with the ring. I have studied all of the "hearts and arrows" and Ideal and super ideal cuts and these stones fall within these tolerances (easily). I'm also having a difficult time finding loose stones on the web for less that $3,000 (on the .77 carat stone and <$1,000 for the .33 carat stones with the same comps ,ie, VS2 and G color and Ideal or better cut).

Could you give me a web path of some stones you see out these that you htink would be better values?

Thanks for the inputs.

Gerry

 

[Nicrez]

ok. When I go to Dirtcheap, I see some decent stones like this:




.77ct at anywhere from $2,500-$3,000


.33cts about $575-$600


Setting would be about $1200 or so...(with labor)




About $5,400 to build considering... so for a Tiffany ring, I would say that is a GOOD price.


If name means much to you, go for it! If you want better cut stones with the same look here's are some options:




I couldn't find much at Whiteflash in the .77 size...but here's a .896 for $4,985 (there is a slight PriceScope discout I think of 5% if you mention it) would be about $4,736 with that 5% off...




Side stones at about $685 or so...: (so with 5% off for two would be $1300 or so)


Only found one within that range of Whiteflash (ask if they have more, they may not have posted some yet)


http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-502941.htm




so with ideal stones and in G, VS2, you would be loking at $7,236. It can be done a bit cheaper if you lowered the colors and clarity a touch, but note that the better cut will make those two things a lot less visible, and you WON'T be disappointed!!! Good luck, but the Tiffany's ring ourchase isn't so bad, but it's not ideal stone dimensions. BUT it is a good price for good clarity, color and Tiffany's design!

 

[nangoff]

Derek,

What is a HCA? If it is the Holloway Cut Adviser by plugging in the numbers I get 0.7 as the Total Visual Score on the 0.77 stone and 0.3 and 0.4 on the side stones.

How did you figure the 3.2?

Also, On the Ideal or Super Ideal cuts. From what I have been aboe to read the stones in the ring I have fall within: Depth percentage of 58.6 to 62.2; Table diameter percent of 53 to 57; Crown Angle of 33.7 to 35.8 degrees, Pavillion depth of 42.2 to 43.8 percent. These are all Ideal numbers.

You say these stones are not "ideal" stones. What are the ideal percentages and degrees. Is there a website that better defines what the numbers should be?

Thank you very much for your info.

Thanks,

Gerry

 

[derekinla]

nangoff, I calculated HCA scores of 3.2, 1.0, and 1.0 for the stones in the Tiffany ring

Center Stone = 3.2
Depth 62.0%,
Table 57.0
Crown 35.1 degrees,
Pavilion 43.6%


Side: 0.33 ct = HCA of 1.0
Depth 60.5%
Table 56.0%
34.1 degrees
Pavilion 43.4%

Side: .32 ct =HCA of 1.0
Depth 61.3%,
Table 56.0%,
Crown 34.3 degrees
Pavilion 43.1%

The HCA is a screening tool and your final decision should be based on your own visual confirmation. My guess is that you will almost certainly see a noticeable difference in visual performance between an HCA of 3.2 and an HCA of 1.0. Although the stones in the ring appear to fall within the #'s for an AGS ideal, there are certain combinations of proportions within the AGS scoring system of cut that are not as desireable as noted by their less than stellar HCA scores. If I had 6000 to spend, I would probably go with making my own ring with super ideal H&A's over the Tiffany anyday.

 

[nangoff]

Derek,

Where did you get your Pavillion angles? Did you estimate them? Did you formulate them from the information I gave you? If so, how?

I did not have this data so I used the default to come up with the numbers I got.

Thanks,

gg

 

[nangoff]

Derek,

OK, I spent some more time on this issue and vahe calculated 3.2, 1.1 and 1.0 respectively on these diamonds, the same as you determined.

I appreciate the education you have given me in these matters.

Now I must determine if a 3.2 score (very good - worth buying if the price is right) is a better thing than "downgrading" in color and clarity or both to get within the budget.

It also looks like a score of 4 or higher puts you in a whole new class, one of "choose it if price is your only consideration" and 2 or below puts you in excellent class.

I also note that the difference of 0.1 degree of pavillion depth (43.6 to 43.5%) puts me in the "very good" class on all measurements, which (I think) would be a no brainer for me at that point (meaning I'd keep the ring).

So at least I know what I've got. I may go shopping some more and visit the folks you found in your posts. Don't know, must think on it.

In any event, thanks for hanging in there with me, as well as the others too.

gg