A problem for Olympic judges?

[kenny]

A figure skater's mom died Sunday.
Tonight she competes in her home country for an Olympic medal.

If her scores seem too high people will say the judges had sympathy.
If her scores seem too low people will say the judges are cold and heartless.

Story

 

[Smurfysmiles]

Oh man, I feel really bad for her

But definitely a conundrum, I'll be interested to see how it turns out.

 

[meresal]

Kenny- I can see where you are coming from... but this girl just skated her best of all season in the short program and still didn't get higher than 3rd (a distant 3rd BTW). She also doesn't have the "skills" (Triple/Triple, etc) that a few of the other girls have.

I have a feeling that unless she somehow pulls out the Gold or Silver, no one will say anything.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I imagine the judges will be as objective as they can be.

 

[lyra]

Highest and lowest scores are thrown out aren''t they? I''m sure the judges will be fair as always. It is a somewhat subjective sport, but I highly doubt there will be any sympathy judging happening. Maybe her 3rd placement was the sympathy vote, but that is as far as that goes IMO.

 

[kama_s]

To be honest, I was wondering if Joannie would get a higher than deserved score when she skated 2 nights ago. But I did watch most of the program, and I think her score was spot-on. She was quite a ways behind the #1 and #2 position, and rightfully so. Her performance was quite spectacular.

 

[PumpkinPie]

I agree with Meresal - although, being Canadian -I hope she does pull off the gold or silver!

 

[treefrog]

Date: 2/25/2010 12:55:56 PM
Author: kama_s
To be honest, I was wondering if Joannie would get a higher than deserved score when she skated 2 nights ago. But I did watch most of the program, and I think her score was spot-on. She was quite a ways behind the #1 and #2 position, and rightfully so. Her performance was quite spectacular.

I agree. I believe it was a very fair score. Joannie's program wasn't quite as complex as the 2 high scorers but she did skate her program nearly flawlessly... something many of the other skaters simply did not do.

I'm not familiar with the new judging rules but from what I gather, it is quite particular and doesn't leave a whole lot of room for "fudging". I am not sure if they throw out high and low scores.

Regardless, she has incredible courage, strength, and passion and I hope she is able to funnel all that into a great skate tonight. I hope she makes the podium tonight but she's already a true champion beyond medals for her strength, love, courage, and dedication regardless of what happens.

Treefrog

 

[kenny]

I would think she''d be under too much stress to skate well.

How can you set aside your mom''s recent death?

 

[Loves Vintage]

Joannie Rochette skated her heart out in the short program. Her performance was truly beautiful. I cried after she skated, when they showed her father in the stands. However, like Kama said, there was quite a point difference between her score and the first and second spots. I would be very surprised if Kim Yu-Na of Korea is not awarded the gold. She would have to make a mistake, which I don''t think she will allow to happen.

In any event, I am so looking forward to the skating tonight!!

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 2/25/2010 1:08:54 PM
Author: kenny
I would think she'd be under too much stress to skate well.

How can you set aside your mom's recent death?

You don't set her death aside, but you do push the pain down a bit deeper, and you skate with her in your heart. She's skating FOR her mom. I think that is why she is skating so well.

Kenny - Did you happen to see her short program? Will you watch tonight? ETA: I ask if you watched her skate the other night because I thought it was obvious to see how she skated with so much emotion. If you didn't see it, it might be hard to understand what I was trying to convey in my first pargraph.

 

[meresal]

Date: 2/25/2010 1:08:54 PM
Author: kenny
I would think she'd be under too much stress to skate well.

How can you set aside your mom's recent death?

She skated her BEST of ALL season 2 nights ago. Obviously she is capable, and has already proven that.

 

[icekid]

Date: 2/25/2010 12:55:56 PM
Author: kama_s
To be honest, I was wondering if Joannie would get a higher than deserved score when she skated 2 nights ago. But I did watch most of the program, and I think her score was spot-on. She was quite a ways behind the #1 and #2 position, and rightfully so. Her performance was quite spectacular.

Actually, I personally DO believe she received an inflated score for her short program. Her ordinal placement was reasonable, but she is in a league far closer to the 4th/5th/6th crew than the 2nd place finisher. For what it is worth, I am a former competitive figure skater.

Regardless, I certainly feel for her and hope she is able to put her best skate out there tonight.

 

[treefrog]

According to the new rules,

"There are 12 judges in Olympic competition. After each program, nine judges are selected at random, and the high score and the low score are dropped."

 

[kenny]

LV, I don't watch TV.
I have no opinion on her.

I just think about the judges' predicament for tonight's event.
I don't envy them.

I find some of the cultural and media aspects of the Olympics to be interesting, but not the sports.

 

[meresal]

Date: 2/25/2010 3:10:43 PM
Author: kenny
LV, I don't watch TV.
I have no opinion on her.

I just think about the judges' predicament for tonight's event.
I don't envy them.

I find some of the cultural and media aspects of the Olympics to be interesting, but not the sports.

You want to follow some REAL drama... look up some articles re: the coach of Olympic Speed Skater (Sven Kramer) from the Netherlands. The coach's name is Gerard Kemkers. The Netherlands treats speed skating like Mexico treats soccer.

The coach lost track of the lap he was on and got him disqualified from a race he finished with the Gold in. (He is the #1 Netherlands skater at the games.)

Some announcers had joked, and other were more serious, that he would possibly have to leave the country.

 

[purrfectpear]

Not the first Olympian to have a parent die while they were in competition.

 

[Puppmom]

Date: 2/25/2010 2:14:27 PM
Author: icekid

Date: 2/25/2010 12:55:56 PM
Author: kama_s
To be honest, I was wondering if Joannie would get a higher than deserved score when she skated 2 nights ago. But I did watch most of the program, and I think her score was spot-on. She was quite a ways behind the #1 and #2 position, and rightfully so. Her performance was quite spectacular.

Actually, I personally DO believe she received an inflated score for her short program. Her ordinal placement was reasonable, but she is in a league far closer to the 4th/5th/6th crew than the 2nd place finisher. For what it is worth, I am a former competitive figure skater.

Regardless, I certainly feel for her and hope she is able to put her best skate out there tonight.

Wow, you find out some interesting stuff about PSers on here. I guess we know the meaning behind your name now.

 

[icekid]

Date: 2/25/2010 3:29:25 PM
Author: puppmom

Date: 2/25/2010 2:14:27 PM

Author: icekid

Date: 2/25/2010 12:55:56 PM

Author: kama_s

To be honest, I was wondering if Joannie would get a higher than deserved score when she skated 2 nights ago. But I did watch most of the program, and I think her score was spot-on. She was quite a ways behind the #1 and #2 position, and rightfully so. Her performance was quite spectacular.

Actually, I personally DO believe she received an inflated score for her short program. Her ordinal placement was reasonable, but she is in a league far closer to the 4th/5th/6th crew than the 2nd place finisher. For what it is worth, I am a former competitive figure skater.


Regardless, I certainly feel for her and hope she is able to put her best skate out there tonight.

Wow, you find out some interesting stuff about PSers on here. I guess we know the meaning behind your name now.

HAHA, yes! My sn actually has nothing to do with ice as in diamonds. Ice as in growing up in an ice rink

 

[kama_s]

Date: 2/25/2010 3:17:31 PM
Author: meresal
You want to follow some REAL drama... look up some articles re: the coach of Olympic Speed Skater (Sven Kramer) from the Netherlands. The coach''s name is Gerard Kemkers. The Netherlands treats speed skating like Mexico treats soccer.

The coach lost track of the lap he was on and got him disqualified from a race he finished with the Gold in. (He is the #1 Netherlands skater at the games.)

Some announcers had joked, and other were more serious, that he would possibly have to leave the country.

I felt absolutely horrible for him. He skated so damn well, and he was about to take the outer lane when his coach yelled out that it''s inner this run. He later said he wished he stuck to his gun, but the decision was a split second one.

Apparently though, a few days ago he called an American reporter ''Stupid'' because she asked him to state his name and country after he''d just won the Gold in the 5000m.

 

[BeachRunner]

Date: 2/25/2010 3:17:31 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 2/25/2010 3:10:43 PM
Author: kenny
LV, I don''t watch TV.
I have no opinion on her.

I just think about the judges'' predicament for tonight''s event.
I don''t envy them.

I find some of the cultural and media aspects of the Olympics to be interesting, but not the sports.

You want to follow some REAL drama... look up some articles re: the coach of Olympic Speed Skater (Sven Kramer) from the Netherlands. The coach''s name is Gerard Kemkers. The Netherlands treats speed skating like Mexico treats soccer.

The coach lost track of the lap he was on and got him disqualified from a race he finished with the Gold in. (He is the #1 Netherlands skater at the games.)

Some announcers had joked, and other were more serious, that he would possibly have to leave the country.

Heard about that; WOW! Did you see the skater''s face after the race?

 

[Gailey]

Date: 2/25/2010 2:49:35 PM
Author: treefrog
According to the new rules,

''There are 12 judges in Olympic competition. After each program, nine judges are selected at random, and the high score and the low score are dropped.''

I think the judges will be as much under the spotlight tonight as Joannie will. Following the figure skating judging scandal at Salt Lake City in 2002, the way in which these events are judged has been overhauled. Nobody wants to see a return to favourable voting, it does nobody any good, least of all those that are favoured.

I didn''t see the event on Tuesday, so I don''t have an opinion about Joannie''s mark. I will be watching later on today. I have yet to hear anyone specifically speculate about another performance that merited being placed ahead of her. IceKid, I saw what you wrote and I would be interested to hear (genuinely) who you think should have been placed ahead of Joannie and why.

To those people who speculate as to how she is able to perform in the face of such a huge and un-expected tragedy, I am sure she is probably numb to losing her Mum. To a large degree it is easier to cling to something (anything) else that delays facing the reality of what has happened. I also think that she feels she is doing this for her Mum.

What ever the reason, when I did finally watch her performance this morning, I thought it was the gutsiest thing I have ever seen.

Good Luck Joannie

 

[CDNinNYC]

Date: 2/25/2010 3:54:19 PM
Author: Gailey
I didn''t sI have yet to hear anyone specifically speculate about another performance that merited being placed ahead of her. IceKid, I saw what you wrote and I would be interested to hear (genuinely) who you think should have been placed ahead of Joannie and why.

I hope I''m not stepping on icekid''s toes by speaking for her but I believe icekid thinks the judges correctly placed Joannie in 3rd, but that her score was inflated. icekid, apologies if I got it wrong.

 

[kama_s]

Date: 2/25/2010 4:10:43 PM
Author: CDNinNYC

Date: 2/25/2010 3:54:19 PM
Author: Gailey
I didn''t sI have yet to hear anyone specifically speculate about another performance that merited being placed ahead of her. IceKid, I saw what you wrote and I would be interested to hear (genuinely) who you think should have been placed ahead of Joannie and why.

I hope I''m not stepping on icekid''s toes by speaking for her but I believe icekid thinks the judges correctly placed Joannie in 3rd, but that her score was inflated. icekid, apologies if I got it wrong.

Yup, that''s what she said in the Olympics thread. Icekid, I responded to you there and not here, hope that''s ok!

 

[meresal]

There are 6.6 whole points between #3 Joannie (Canada) and #4 Miki (Japan).

 

[icekid]

Date: 2/25/2010 4:14:27 PM
Author: kama_s

Date: 2/25/2010 4:10:43 PM

Author: CDNinNYC

Date: 2/25/2010 3:54:19 PM

Author: Gailey

I didn''t sI have yet to hear anyone specifically speculate about another performance that merited being placed ahead of her. IceKid, I saw what you wrote and I would be interested to hear (genuinely) who you think should have been placed ahead of Joannie and why.

I hope I''m not stepping on icekid''s toes by speaking for her but I believe icekid thinks the judges correctly placed Joannie in 3rd, but that her score was inflated. icekid, apologies if I got it wrong.

Yup, that''s what she said in the Olympics thread. Icekid, I responded to you there and not here, hope that''s ok!

Yep, you are quite right re: my opinion. I think her 3rd place was well-deserved, but not her score. And actually, the 6.6 points above the 4th place skater is quite a significant margin in the short program. However, for that matter, I don''t think Miki Ando should have been 4th. Hehe, I try (usually unsuccessfully) not to be annoyed about the inadequacies of judging in figure skating. Judges are human, which means they usually get it wrong

 

[meresal]

Date: 2/25/2010 4:32:51 PM
Author: icekid

Yep, you are quite right re: my opinion. I think her 3rd place was well-deserved, but not her score. And actually, the 6.6 points above the 4th place skater is quite a significant margin in the short program. However, for that matter, I don''t think Miki Ando should have been 4th. Hehe, I try (usually unsuccessfully) not to be annoyed about the inadequacies of judging in figure skating. Judges are human, which means they usually get it wrong

I definitely understand this. That is why I used the word "whole" in my quote.

She is in a very nice position indeed. Heck, she''s only three points behind 2nd and if she has a flawless performance, and Asada (girl in 2nd) happens to fall, she could easily move into Silver, which would be FAR above the level she skates at, IMO.

I think tonight will be much different though. The emotional roller coaster that she has been on may not have been all that noticable in the short program, but I have a feeling she may look more exhausted tonight during her long performance. Though, I do wish Joannie the best, and am looking forward to watching her again!

 

[stci]

Date: 2/25/2010 2:14:27 PM
Author: icekid

Date: 2/25/2010 12:55:56 PM
Author: kama_s
To be honest, I was wondering if Joannie would get a higher than deserved score when she skated 2 nights ago. But I did watch most of the program, and I think her score was spot-on. She was quite a ways behind the #1 and #2 position, and rightfully so. Her performance was quite spectacular.

Actually, I personally DO believe she received an inflated score for her short program. Her ordinal placement was reasonable, but she is in a league far closer to the 4th/5th/6th crew than the 2nd place finisher. For what it is worth, I am a former competitive figure skater.

Regardless, I certainly feel for her and hope she is able to put her best skate out there tonight.

I''m willing to listen an international judge in figure skating not a former. Sorry...

Nobody is more partial than a former.

 

[icekid]

Date: 2/25/2010 5:17:12 PM
Author: stci

Date: 2/25/2010 2:14:27 PM

Author: icekid

Date: 2/25/2010 12:55:56 PM

Author: kama_s

To be honest, I was wondering if Joannie would get a higher than deserved score when she skated 2 nights ago. But I did watch most of the program, and I think her score was spot-on. She was quite a ways behind the #1 and #2 position, and rightfully so. Her performance was quite spectacular.

Actually, I personally DO believe she received an inflated score for her short program. Her ordinal placement was reasonable, but she is in a league far closer to the 4th/5th/6th crew than the 2nd place finisher. For what it is worth, I am a former competitive figure skater.


Regardless, I certainly feel for her and hope she is able to put her best skate out there tonight.

I''m willing to listen an international judge in figure skating not a former. Sorry...


Nobody is more partial than a former.

There is no reason to be sorry; your opinion of my opinion matters not.

And if you believe that "international judges" are without bias, well.....


Meresal- I am definitely with you! Holding it together for her long problem will be a serious task. I wish her the best, though. From all accounts she is a lovely young lady going through an incredibly difficult time.

 

[treefrog]

Date: 2/25/2010 5:02:43 PM
Author: meresal

She is in a very nice position indeed. Heck, she''s only three points behind 2nd and if she has a flawless performance, and Asada (girl in 2nd) happens to fall, she could easily move into Silver, which would be FAR above the level she skates at, IMO.

Bingo! She may not be considered a "silver" level skater overall worldwide. But that''s not how this works. I''m not wishing anything on anybody other than for them to all skate their very best tonight but if Asada were to fall, and if Joannie (or somebody pretty close to her in points) were to have a great performance, they would probably medal. In most competitions, you don''t have to be the best to win; just the best that particular day. This works for football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, tennis, etc. There are exceptions (something like the Tour de France to a good degree.)

If "Skier A" had won every single downhill he ever raced in his life, and crashed on the olympic downhill course, "Skier B" with the fastest time would win the gold. Doesn''t mean "Skier B" is the best skier... was just better that day.

Treefrog