A post grad thread...Lilac, BEG, and anyone else graduating

[Indylady]

I know a couple PS''ers are going to be graduating soon, Lilac and BEG come to mind. Want to chat over opportunities and plans? Any interesting moves you''re contemplating? Dream schools or programs?

I''m waiting on law schools, a Fulbright, and a CLS Scholarship. Apart from that, I''ve considered applying to the London School of Economics for health policy, but I haven''t yet.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Hey Indy! I''ll come back later to the thread - I''m at the airport and taking off soon!

 

[Lilac]

Almost missed this thread! Yep, I''m graduating in May.

I actually just found out this past weekend that I''ve been accepted into one of the grad school programs for occupational therapy that I applied to

I''m pretty relieved because it was very competitive and I was SO nervous I wouldn''t get in anywhere! So now I have somewhere to go no matter what happens with the other programs (and this program actually happens to be pretty good also). It''s SUCH a relief! DH is so proud, it''s pretty cute. I''m just really happy and relieved.

The other two schools I applied to don''t send out decisions until April (New York University and Columbia University). I think I want to go to NYU, but I can''t put into words *why* exactly I want to go there. It''s the highest rated occupational therapy master''s program in our area, but I they''re all pretty good. My preference for NYU is just a general feeling I have but I''m struggling to figure out why that is. But it''s insanely expensive and the program I was just accepted to is around $16,000 a year vs. the $50,000 for NYU or Columbia - so the financially smart choice would probably be the program I''ve been accepted into because it would greatly reduce the amount of student loans I would have (and actually, I could probably afford to pay for it without any loans or very minimal loans). But then again, if I don''t get accepted by NYU or Columbia none of this is really a *choice*, now is it?

When do you find out about law schools?

 

[Indylady]

Hey Lilac!

I''m also graduating in May. I''m in a similar boat: I''ve been accepted to a great top 50 law school with one of the most affordable tuition rates in the country, and best of all I''ll still be within a few hours of my family.
It feels great to know I have somewhere to go, and also that its a good program that I''ll be able to fund without a lot of stress.

That being said, I still haven''t heard back from my dream school (Northwestern) but I did get waitlisted for my second choice (UVA). The difference in cost between my dream schools and the school I''ve been admitted to are the same, $15,000 compared to $50,000. I''m not sure which I''d pick if I did get into my dream school; the experience of studying at a top law school is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I''m so sure of graduating with $150,000 of debt.

Occupational therapy? Is that similar to working in Human Resources, or somewhat like Organizational Behavior? I''m a Sociology major and I thought of going into OB, but I ended up changing my mind. How long is the program?

 

[Lilac]

Date: 2/24/2010 9:29:31 PM
Author: IndyLady
Hey Lilac!

I''m also graduating in May. I''m in a similar boat: I''ve been accepted to a great top 50 law school with one of the most affordable tuition rates in the country, and best of all I''ll still be within a few hours of my family.
It feels great to know I have somewhere to go, and also that its a good program that I''ll be able to fund without a lot of stress.

That being said, I still haven''t heard back from my dream school (Northwestern) but I did get waitlisted for my second choice (UVA). The difference in cost between my dream schools and the school I''ve been admitted to are the same, $15,000 compared to $50,000. I''m not sure which I''d pick if I did get into my dream school; the experience of studying at a top law school is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I''m so sure of graduating with $150,000 of debt.

Occupational therapy? Is that similar to working in Human Resources, or somewhat like Organizational Behavior? I''m a Sociology major and I thought of going into OB, but I ended up changing my mind. How long is the program?

It''s such a tough decision when it comes to going to a really great dream school but leaving with tons of debt, or going to a decent/good school but leaving with little or no debt. I don''t know what I''ll do if it comes to making the decision...

Occupational Therapy is actually nothing like Human Resources - Occupational therapists can work in many different settings - they can work with spinal cord injury patients and help them adapt to their injuries and learn how to do things in new ways (for example, if someone with a spinal cord injury can''t get dressed the way they were able to before the injury, an occupational therapist would teach them new ways to get dressed now that they have the injury - ways to adapt). An OT can also work with kids who are developmentally disabled. OTs can work with stroke patients in a rehab setting or elderly patients as well. It all depends on what you want to specialize in

.

 

[IloveAsschers13]

Hey All!!

I am graduating in May too! I have grad school next year as a requirement through my education program at my school. We do a whole year of student teaching (elementary) as opposed to one semester like most schools. After that, I would rather get a job before I continue my education, although at some point I want my master''s. Not much to put into the conversation, just pipin'' in!

 

[Octavia]

Date: 2/24/2010 9:29:31 PM
Author: IndyLady
Hey Lilac!


I''m also graduating in May. I''m in a similar boat: I''ve been accepted to a great top 50 law school with one of the most affordable tuition rates in the country, and best of all I''ll still be within a few hours of my family.

It feels great to know I have somewhere to go, and also that its a good program that I''ll be able to fund without a lot of stress.


That being said, I still haven''t heard back from my dream school (Northwestern) but I did get waitlisted for my second choice (UVA). The difference in cost between my dream schools and the school I''ve been admitted to are the same, $15,000 compared to $50,000. I''m not sure which I''d pick if I did get into my dream school; the experience of studying at a top law school is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I''m so sure of graduating with $150,000 of debt.


Occupational therapy? Is that similar to working in Human Resources, or somewhat like Organizational Behavior? I''m a Sociology major and I thought of going into OB, but I ended up changing my mind. How long is the program?

Indy, I chose my law school (usually ranked about 60-ish) over Vanderbilt precisely because of cost. I''m definitely not sorry. If you want to work in BigLaw or if you want to be a professor and think you have a reasonable shot at getting the necessary grades/credentials, that would be a good reason to choose a top school. But taking $15k in loans per year still leaves you with over $600 per month in loan payments at the end...so if you''re aiming to do something other than the above, think seriously about the debt. Then stop and think some more. And I will say, you can still have terrific classmates and professors, and a thoroughly stimulating experience, at a lower ranked school. Just my $0.02.

 

[Indylady]

Hi Iloveasschers!

Congratulations on your graduation! Are you excited to be a teacher? I have a roommate that's an early childhood ed. major and she's been interning all semester. She loves it! And she's always coming home with goodies, like sugar-ed rice from a Japanese tea party, chocolates from a Valentine's day party, or "snow" that they made in class. Plus, I love hearing all of the "kids say the darned-est things" moments.

ETA: And edible play-doh! All the roomies were jealous of that one too.

 

[Indylady]

Date: 2/25/2010 12:15:33 AM
Author: Octavia

Date: 2/24/2010 9:29:31 PM

Author: IndyLady

Hey Lilac!



I''m also graduating in May. I''m in a similar boat: I''ve been accepted to a great top 50 law school with one of the most affordable tuition rates in the country, and best of all I''ll still be within a few hours of my family.


It feels great to know I have somewhere to go, and also that its a good program that I''ll be able to fund without a lot of stress.



That being said, I still haven''t heard back from my dream school (Northwestern) but I did get waitlisted for my second choice (UVA). The difference in cost between my dream schools and the school I''ve been admitted to are the same, $15,000 compared to $50,000. I''m not sure which I''d pick if I did get into my dream school; the experience of studying at a top law school is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I''m so sure of graduating with $150,000 of debt.



Occupational therapy? Is that similar to working in Human Resources, or somewhat like Organizational Behavior? I''m a Sociology major and I thought of going into OB, but I ended up changing my mind. How long is the program?

Indy, I chose my law school (usually ranked about 60-ish) over Vanderbilt precisely because of cost. I''m definitely not sorry. If you want to work in BigLaw or if you want to be a professor and think you have a reasonable shot at getting the necessary grades/credentials, that would be a good reason to choose a top school. But taking $15k in loans per year still leaves you with over $600 per month in loan payments at the end...so if you''re aiming to do something other than the above, think seriously about the debt. Then stop and think some more. And I will say, you can still have terrific classmates and professors, and a thoroughly stimulating experience, at a lower ranked school. Just my $0.02.

Octavia, thanks for the advice! I''m running to class but I''ll be back later!

 

[katamari]

As someone on the other side of graduate school (graduating this summer), I just want to say that going to the highest rank program you can get into is the beat strategy if you want a top job and worth every penny of debt you must incur.

 

[Octavia]

Katamari, that's probably true in most disciplines, but law is just different. There are definitely some benefits to going to a top program, and opportunities that certainly wouldn't ever be available to people at lower-ranked schools (clerking SCOTUS comes to mind, and some top firm jobs). But many (most?) law students are never going to see the return on investment they would expect from such a huge debt load. Also, when it comes to schools outside of the top 15 or so, rankings don't matter as much as being in the region you intend to practice in -- the University of Iowa is ranked quite a bit higher than my school, but since I intend to practice in Philadelphia, it would be stupid for me to have missed out on the networking opportunities and alumni base we have here. One of the absolute hardest things about law school applications is deciding whether the debt is worth the school.

 

[Indylady]

Date: 2/25/2010 12:25:00 PM
Author: Octavia
Katamari, that''s probably true in most disciplines, but law is just different. There are definitely some benefits to going to a top program, and opportunities that certainly wouldn''t ever be available to people at lower-ranked schools (clerking SCOTUS comes to mind, and some top firm jobs). But many (most?) law students are never going to see the return on investment they would expect from such a huge debt load. Also, when it comes to schools outside of the top 15 or so, rankings don''t matter as much as being in the region you intend to practice in -- the University of Iowa is ranked quite a bit higher than my school, but since I intend to practice in Philadelphia, it would be stupid for me to have missed out on the networking opportunities and alumni base we have here. One of the absolute hardest things about law school applications is deciding whether the debt is worth the school.

Agreed! I thought the LSAT was the hurdle, but now I''ve been looking seriously into my dream schools to pinpoint exactly why they are my dream schools and if they have specific programs or professors that are interested in the same things I am, while still keeping in mind that my interests might change or grow as time passes and I''m actually in law school.

 

[NovemberBride]

Date: 2/25/2010 12:25:00 PM
Author: Octavia
Katamari, that''s probably true in most disciplines, but law is just different. There are definitely some benefits to going to a top program, and opportunities that certainly wouldn''t ever be available to people at lower-ranked schools (clerking SCOTUS comes to mind, and some top firm jobs). But many (most?) law students are never going to see the return on investment they would expect from such a huge debt load. Also, when it comes to schools outside of the top 15 or so, rankings don''t matter as much as being in the region you intend to practice in -- the University of Iowa is ranked quite a bit higher than my school, but since I intend to practice in Philadelphia, it would be stupid for me to have missed out on the networking opportunities and alumni base we have here. One of the absolute hardest things about law school applications is deciding whether the debt is worth the school.

Huge ditto from a practicing attorney. My advice (if you want to work for a big firm or clerk for a high ranking judge - otherwise my advice is to go to the school that will cost you the least) is (1) if you get into a top 15 school go, no matter where you want to practice and (2) if you don''t get into top 15, go to the best regional school in the area you want to practice. Here''s why - I worked at two top-ranked firms, one in NYC and one in Philly and was involved in recruiting at both. Both firms recruited heavily from the top 15, but they also recruited the highest ranked students from local schools (NY - St. John''s and NYLS, in addition to NYU and CLS which are top 15 and Philly - Temple and Villanova, in addition to Penn which is Top 15). OUtside of that you weren''t even going to get an interview. Of course, this only applies if you want to work for BigLaw and it by no means guarantees you''ll get such a job in this economy, but it''s your best shot. I still say top 15 if you can get in, because you''d probably get an interview if you were top 25% at a top 15 school where you would have to be top 5-10% at the regional schools.

 

[IloveAsschers13]

Date: 2/25/2010 8:58:52 AM
Author: IndyLady
Hi Iloveasschers!

Congratulations on your graduation! Are you excited to be a teacher? I have a roommate that''s an early childhood ed. major and she''s been interning all semester. She loves it! And she''s always coming home with goodies, like sugar-ed rice from a Japanese tea party, chocolates from a Valentine''s day party, or ''snow'' that they made in class. Plus, I love hearing all of the ''kids say the darned-est things'' moments.


ETA: And edible play-doh! All the roomies were jealous of that one too.

Yep, I am excited. And I know what you meant about your post, but let me tell you it is HARD WORK. I have put so much time into my education that is outside of the classroom that while I am looking forward to my intern year, I am also not looking forward to the amount of work I am going to be expected to do. You see, I will be teaching all lessons by the end of the school year and MSU requires us to go to grad school classes every Fri, so it''s going to be a lot of work. I know a ton of people who HATE it. Kids do really say the darned-est things but keep in mind it''s hard too! We are practically raising these kids while they are in our classroom since we are in the lower el grades. You would just be SHOCKED of stories and experiences we have and these children have as well.

 

[Indylady]

Oops Iloveasschers, I didn''t mean to make it sound like it was easy! She''s interning and taking 18 credit hours (and the internship doesn''t count towards those hours), so I definitely see how hard it is. She''s up at 6am almost every day, and doesn''t get back until 5 or 6pm. Next year she''ll start her full time internship, and she''ll be teaching by the end of that year.

Teaching is hard work. I taught English for two months in a developing country, and it was so hard! I have much respect for teachers (and their patience) after my experience.

 

[sphenequeen]

Hi All!

I am (crossing my fingers) earning my graduate degree in Anthropology in May. I have to turn in and defend my thesis on the spring. I applied for another program, a Master''s in Public Health, but have yet to hear back from the department.

This has been a hectic year.

 

[Indylady]

Congrats Sphenequeen! What is your thesis on?

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Whew finally back to this thread! Congrats to all of you guys on your impending graduations!

I''m in my second to last quarter of my 3L year, which is terrifying. I really don''t want to graduate into this economy. I have no idea what I''m doing after grad, which is really scary too. I''m hoping to be abroad but I so wish I didn''t have this massive amount of debt limiting my job options.

And speaking of which, here''s my advice for Indy and anyone else who is applying to law schools.

1) Outside the T14 schools, go for the school that a) has the greatest influence in the region you want to work in (i.e. UT if you want to work in Texas or Boston College if you want to stay in Boston) and b) gives you the most money.

2) If you''re accepted to a T14 that changes the equation somewhat. Basically I chose a T14 despite very little money because your job prospects in a large law firm are almost guaranteed (unless the economy crashes and burns on you your 2L fall when you interview at big firms and the firms overfill their summer classes and they no-offer people, screwing them over). In a good economy, that''s a safe move because unless you''re completely socially inept, you''ll do well enough and get a large law firm job with a 6-figure salary.

So right now it''s just a waiting game for you, Indy, unfortunately, and you''ll have to decide once all your offers are on the table. Once you do get accepted to schools, I strongly advise that you visit them during admitted students weekends to get a feel for the school. I was debating between two, loved both, went to both ASWs, and in the end went with my gut. Honestly, I don''t QUITE like my school as much as I did 1L year - like 1L year people are all stressed out and you bond over it, and then things usually settle down your 2L and 3L years. Um the culture at my school isn''t quite what I want (and that has more to do with me and the fact that I hate law) but on the other hand, going to my school instead of the other one I considered gave me WAY better summer job opportuntiies (for ex. my Japanese law firm 1L year doesn''t hire anyone from the other school but they hire someone from my school every year). So great opportunities.

Anyway, as far as what I''m doing, I''m going to wait out this year and hopefully get a firm job in Korea or maybe a teaching fellow position in China. I''m waiting to hear back. And I''m going to use this year to decide if I want to stick it out through Biglaw, which I HATE but need b/c of my debt, or if I want to take a plunge and go for my PhD, which is what I wanted initially (and people convinced me to go with the "safe" option of law). I''m in touch with my thesis advisor from undergrad and other profs and I''d love it if this works out, but I''m just scared to take the plunge because I have no idea how I''ll pay off my debt if I go for a grad program. Eek.

And sorry for the depressing post!

 

[LabRatPhD]

Date: 2/27/2010 1:51:29 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl
Whew finally back to this thread! Congrats to all of you guys on your impending graduations!


I''m in my second to last quarter of my 3L year, which is terrifying. I really don''t want to graduate into this economy. I have no idea what I''m doing after grad, which is really scary too. I''m hoping to be abroad but I so wish I didn''t have this massive amount of debt limiting my job options.


And speaking of which, here''s my advice for Indy and anyone else who is applying to law schools.


1) Outside the T14 schools, go for the school that a) has the greatest influence in the region you want to work in (i.e. UT if you want to work in Texas or Boston College if you want to stay in Boston) and b) gives you the most money.


2) If you''re accepted to a T14 that changes the equation somewhat. Basically I chose a T14 despite very little money because your job prospects in a large law firm are almost guaranteed (unless the economy crashes and burns on you your 2L fall when you interview at big firms and the firms overfill their summer classes and they no-offer people, screwing them over). In a good economy, that''s a safe move because unless you''re completely socially inept, you''ll do well enough and get a large law firm job with a 6-figure salary.


So right now it''s just a waiting game for you, Indy, unfortunately, and you''ll have to decide once all your offers are on the table. Once you do get accepted to schools, I strongly advise that you visit them during admitted students weekends to get a feel for the school. I was debating between two, loved both, went to both ASWs, and in the end went with my gut. Honestly, I don''t QUITE like my school as much as I did 1L year - like 1L year people are all stressed out and you bond over it, and then things usually settle down your 2L and 3L years. Um the culture at my school isn''t quite what I want (and that has more to do with me and the fact that I hate law) but on the other hand, going to my school instead of the other one I considered gave me WAY better summer job opportuntiies (for ex. my Japanese law firm 1L year doesn''t hire anyone from the other school but they hire someone from my school every year). So great opportunities.


Anyway, as far as what I''m doing, I''m going to wait out this year and hopefully get a firm job in Korea or maybe a teaching fellow position in China. I''m waiting to hear back. And I''m going to use this year to decide if I want to stick it out through Biglaw, which I HATE but need b/c of my debt, or if I want to take a plunge and go for my PhD, which is what I wanted initially (and people convinced me to go with the ''safe'' option of law). I''m in touch with my thesis advisor from undergrad and other profs and I''d love it if this works out, but I''m just scared to take the plunge because I have no idea how I''ll pay off my debt if I go for a grad program. Eek.


And sorry for the depressing post!

Hugs, BEG! I''m so sorry you are going through this!

Trust me, even though FI made it out of law school just fine with a good job, holding on to said job has been challenging the last couple years!

Just want to share my "brush" with the law. I actually entertained the idea of law school last year because I am sick of science and FI thinks I would be a really good attorney w/ my science background. I am at U of Texas for my Phd in a highly ranked program and UT''s law school is now being considered as elite as the T14 schools - actually FI just said he thinks UT is may be 14th. At any rate, he said UT is now a school that is not for a regional market but his firm interviews UT law students for positions in NYC and Philadelphia. At any rate, if I would have applied and gotten into UT, I would have paid in-state tuition which is far more reasonable than the ivy league T14 school FI went to. FI believes I would have had the same job opportunities that he had in the Northeast, where we eventually want to move. In the end, I scrapped the idea this semester because of the scariness of the job market. I simply can''t take the risk of leaving my PhD program where I am actually making money (albeit pennies) to take on any sort of debt. $60K is still a lot to me, as I have never had debt before. FI just paid off his $150k debt last year and I DO NOT want to bring on a new debt, especially because we want to start a family in 3-4 years. Plus we have no idea when the job market will get better by the time I would graduate, as FI said it seems most BigLaw firms are taking a more conservative approach to hiring. So for now I am staying put in my program (even though I am still pretty unhappy).

But, in short, I want to ditto the sentiment about law schools that has been stated by other posted. I am not directly affiliated with law, but my FI has been coaching me along in my short-lived process of possibly applying!

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/27/2010 2:14:37 PM
Author: LabRatPhD

Date: 2/27/2010 1:51:29 PM

Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Whew finally back to this thread! Congrats to all of you guys on your impending graduations!



I''m in my second to last quarter of my 3L year, which is terrifying. I really don''t want to graduate into this economy. I have no idea what I''m doing after grad, which is really scary too. I''m hoping to be abroad but I so wish I didn''t have this massive amount of debt limiting my job options.



And speaking of which, here''s my advice for Indy and anyone else who is applying to law schools.



1) Outside the T14 schools, go for the school that a) has the greatest influence in the region you want to work in (i.e. UT if you want to work in Texas or Boston College if you want to stay in Boston) and b) gives you the most money.



2) If you''re accepted to a T14 that changes the equation somewhat. Basically I chose a T14 despite very little money because your job prospects in a large law firm are almost guaranteed (unless the economy crashes and burns on you your 2L fall when you interview at big firms and the firms overfill their summer classes and they no-offer people, screwing them over). In a good economy, that''s a safe move because unless you''re completely socially inept, you''ll do well enough and get a large law firm job with a 6-figure salary.



So right now it''s just a waiting game for you, Indy, unfortunately, and you''ll have to decide once all your offers are on the table. Once you do get accepted to schools, I strongly advise that you visit them during admitted students weekends to get a feel for the school. I was debating between two, loved both, went to both ASWs, and in the end went with my gut. Honestly, I don''t QUITE like my school as much as I did 1L year - like 1L year people are all stressed out and you bond over it, and then things usually settle down your 2L and 3L years. Um the culture at my school isn''t quite what I want (and that has more to do with me and the fact that I hate law) but on the other hand, going to my school instead of the other one I considered gave me WAY better summer job opportuntiies (for ex. my Japanese law firm 1L year doesn''t hire anyone from the other school but they hire someone from my school every year). So great opportunities.



Anyway, as far as what I''m doing, I''m going to wait out this year and hopefully get a firm job in Korea or maybe a teaching fellow position in China. I''m waiting to hear back. And I''m going to use this year to decide if I want to stick it out through Biglaw, which I HATE but need b/c of my debt, or if I want to take a plunge and go for my PhD, which is what I wanted initially (and people convinced me to go with the ''safe'' option of law). I''m in touch with my thesis advisor from undergrad and other profs and I''d love it if this works out, but I''m just scared to take the plunge because I have no idea how I''ll pay off my debt if I go for a grad program. Eek.



And sorry for the depressing post!

Hugs, BEG! I''m so sorry you are going through this!


Trust me, even though FI made it out of law school just fine with a good job, holding on to said job has been challenging the last couple years!


Just want to share my ''brush'' with the law. I actually entertained the idea of law school last year because I am sick of science and FI thinks I would be a really good attorney w/ my science background. I am at U of Texas for my Phd in a highly ranked program and UT''s law school is now being considered as elite as the T14 schools - actually FI just said he thinks UT is may be 14th. At any rate, he said UT is now a school that is not for a regional market but his firm interviews UT law students for positions in NYC and Philadelphia. At any rate, if I would have applied and gotten into UT, I would have paid in-state tuition which is far more reasonable than the ivy league T14 school FI went to. FI believes I would have had the same job opportunities that he had in the Northeast, where we eventually want to move. In the end, I scrapped the idea this semester because of the scariness of the job market. I simply can''t take the risk of leaving my PhD program where I am actually making money (albeit pennies) to take on any sort of debt. $60K is still a lot to me, as I have never had debt before. FI just paid off his $150k debt last year and I DO NOT want to bring on a new debt, especially because we want to start a family in 3-4 years. Plus we have no idea when the job market will get better by the time I would graduate, as FI said it seems most BigLaw firms are taking a more conservative approach to hiring. So for now I am staying put in my program (even though I am still pretty unhappy).


But, in short, I want to ditto the sentiment about law schools that has been stated by other posted. I am not directly affiliated with law, but my FI has been coaching me along in my short-lived process of possibly applying!

Labrat, I think you made the right decision for right now. Honestly, the economy is picking up but the legal sector took a big hit the last year and half, and I don''t know when hiring and expansion will go back to pre-crash days. My class got screwed in fall interviews but even more screwed at the end of 2L summer, which is when you normally get permanent post-grad offers. Firms overhired big time and no-offered a ton of people, and honestly, your marketability and attractiveness to law firms is there for a VERY short time - 1Ls they don''t like hiring because they could go to a different firm so it''s just a waste of resources to hire them for the summer, and 3Ls they can''t test out the following summer. 2L is basically your only chance. Now the class after me also got screwed but in a different way. For their 2L interviews, firms drastically cut down the size of their summer classes - the firm I worked at hired 100 people my year, and 20 people for the class behind me. People who should have had offers from V10 (vault 10) firms weren''t even getting callbacks, y''know? And "clicking" with the interviewers and the firm mattered MUCH less for the class behind me - it was ALL about grades. I don''t know how the 1Ls this year will fare but hopefully it''ll be a little better.

Labrat, I see what your FI is saying though. Patent attorneys are in big demand still, and firms try to hire people with technical/hard science backgrounds for patents, limiting the candidate pool significantly. And UT is a great school (I don''t pay attention to US News rankings anymore so oops, sorry!) and does play well nationally. It''s also pretty strong in Texas too. I think my BC-Boston example was a better one for the type of regional school I was mentioning though. But yeah, I would not want to take on any debt right now if you''re pretty debt-free already.

I''m sorry to hear you''re unhappy in your grad program though. Do you mind sharing why?

 

[LabRatPhD]

Date: 2/27/2010 3:14:51 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Date: 2/27/2010 2:14:37 PM
Labrat, I think you made the right decision for right now. Honestly, the economy is picking up but the legal sector took a big hit the last year and half, and I don''t know when hiring and expansion will go back to pre-crash days. My class got screwed in fall interviews but even more screwed at the end of 2L summer, which is when you normally get permanent post-grad offers. Firms overhired big time and no-offered a ton of people, and honestly, your marketability and attractiveness to law firms is there for a VERY short time - 1Ls they don''t like hiring because they could go to a different firm so it''s just a waste of resources to hire them for the summer, and 3Ls they can''t test out the following summer. 2L is basically your only chance. Now the class after me also got screwed but in a different way. For their 2L interviews, firms drastically cut down the size of their summer classes - the firm I worked at hired 100 people my year, and 20 people for the class behind me. People who should have had offers from V10 (vault 10) firms weren''t even getting callbacks, y''know? And ''clicking'' with the interviewers and the firm mattered MUCH less for the class behind me - it was ALL about grades. I don''t know how the 1Ls this year will fare but hopefully it''ll be a little better.


Labrat, I see what your FI is saying though. Patent attorneys are in big demand still, and firms try to hire people with technical/hard science backgrounds for patents, limiting the candidate pool significantly. And UT is a great school (I don''t pay attention to US News rankings anymore so oops, sorry!) and does play well nationally. It''s also pretty strong in Texas too. I think my BC-Boston example was a better one for the type of regional school I was mentioning though. But yeah, I would not want to take on any debt right now if you''re pretty debt-free already.


I''m sorry to hear you''re unhappy in your grad program though. Do you mind sharing why?

Of course!

I am currently a 4th year student in cell and molecular biology. I passed all my quals and have been admitted to candidacy, so I feel I am progressing on time as I should be. The problem is I am really tired of doing research in the lab. I have been doing research since I was 16, working at a medical school lab in high school. I did undergraduate research all four years of my undergraduate career, worked in a big biotech company for a year after graduating college, and have now been working for four more years in my PhD work. I can honestly say I am burned out and can''t stomach the thought of doing a postdoctoral fellowship after this for another 2-3 years before I get a real job.
The economy has taken a toll on grad programs too. Government and private fellowships are harder to come by, lab funding has decreased quite a bit, so more grad students have to apply for teaching assistantships. Unfortunately, universities are cutting down class sizes or eliminating classes all together so there are fewer TA positions available. Some grad students go semesters without getting a stipend to live off of because they were unable to get a TA position and their labs don''t have money to pay them. Many of these folks have families and need the stipend

. Things are overall very crappy right now and the fact that I feel burned out doesn''t make the situation better.
I know you said you were considering applying to PhD programs - I think what I said above applies to all grad programs so it is a bad time to apply. Incoming class sizes are smaller nowadays too so it is harder to get into these programs. FI''s father is a prof in liberal arts here and has said the situation is even more dismal in his program. His program is ranked 2nd in the country. FI really hated his job 2 years ago and wanted to leave to go to a PhD program. He has since abandoned the idea since it would be a financial hardship for us. Living on two grad stipends is no joke, especially in this economy. Now he is in a better place with his job, so he doesn''t mind it so much.

Good luck, BEG. Things are really hard right now but hopefully they will get better very soon.

 

[Indylady]

BEG, would you recommend that I start law school a year later from now? I am dedicated to go to law school; I''ve thought about it for a long time, had some experiences with laws and paperwork while working for a non-profit that made me feel like I didn''t want to be without a legal education, talked to attorneys, had interviews for law schools, taken advantage of talking to reps and deans, and I think it is still the right choice for me. However, since it is still late February, I can still apply for a fall/spring internship, or even a one year master''s program though I would not want to take on more debt, and delay my entrance to law school by a year. Do you think I should try to hold off for another year, do you think the worst of it is over and I should go ahead and accept offers?

 

[sillyberry]

Indy, as of now are you going straight through?

If so, I would highly recommend taking a year off if you can. First, and most importantly, I think time off from school is a good thing for no other reason than it is time off. Rest your brain, try out a job, get out of school mode. I think a lot of my friends who didn''t take time off are SUPER burnt out (as opposed to just super burnt out, like I am). Second, having a job gives you something to talk about in interviews besides just your 1L summer job. I think employers like to see that you''ve ever spent time working for more than 2-3 months of a summer. It makes you seem like more of an "adult," if you know what I mean. Third, it''ll give the legal market a bit more time to right itself. No one really knows where it is going, but time will tell to some degree.

If you can do something interesting for a year, great, otherwise I think any job itself is a benefit. Having a salary is awesome. Getting to go to work during the day and then have your night and weekends free from thoughts of work is awesome. I was out for 4 years and I really think it helped in law school.

Oh, and I wouldn''t do a masters program. I had considered doing a JD/MPA and was told that the masters degree was superfluous. Plus debt is bad.

One more thing. If you do decide to take a year off, depending on your score you might consider retaking the LSAT (since you mentioned not having heard from NW/being waitlisted at UVA). After LSAC changed their reporting policy a few years ago there is no good reason not to take the LSAT more than once. That could make a difference in either admission or scholarships.

Anyway, that''s what I have to offer. I hope it was useful - let me know if I can answer anything else!

 

[Octavia]

ITA with sillyberry. I took three years between college and law school and I''m still ridiculously burnt out. I can''t imagine having gone straight through. If you have a chance to do something really interesting for a year or two (NOT just something that people say will get you into law school), it''s a great idea.

 

[Indylady]

Date: 2/28/2010 11:09:20 PM
Author: sillyberry
Indy, as of now are you going straight through?

If so, I would highly recommend taking a year off if you can. First, and most importantly, I think time off from school is a good thing for no other reason than it is time off. Rest your brain, try out a job, get out of school mode. I think a lot of my friends who didn't take time off are SUPER burnt out (as opposed to just super burnt out, like I am). Second, having a job gives you something to talk about in interviews besides just your 1L summer job. I think employers like to see that you've ever spent time working for more than 2-3 months of a summer. It makes you seem like more of an 'adult,' if you know what I mean. Third, it'll give the legal market a bit more time to right itself. No one really knows where it is going, but time will tell to some degree.

If you can do something interesting for a year, great, otherwise I think any job itself is a benefit. Having a salary is awesome. Getting to go to work during the day and then have your night and weekends free from thoughts of work is awesome. I was out for 4 years and I really think it helped in law school.

Oh, and I wouldn't do a masters program. I had considered doing a JD/MPA and was told that the masters degree was superfluous. Plus debt is bad.

One more thing. If you do decide to take a year off, depending on your score you might consider retaking the LSAT (since you mentioned not having heard from NW/being waitlisted at UVA). After LSAC changed their reporting policy a few years ago there is no good reason not to take the LSAT more than once. That could make a difference in either admission or scholarships.

Anyway, that's what I have to offer. I hope it was useful - let me know if I can answer anything else!

Sillyberry, I am going straight through. I've been poking around for a job, but it really hasn't been easy. I have, however, really seriously been looking into internships. Are there any particular internships that you think would be a good idea to look into? I might try going through the Washington Center (only for the internships with stipends); I know a lot of people that have loved their experience with it, but I think it just doesn't make any sense to pay for an un-paid internship. If I don't get in anywhere I really wanted to go, then I think that I will postpone law school for a year and take the LSAT again in June. What did you do on your time off? I'm concerned about getting out of the "school mode" and loosing momentum. However, working would give me a little time to save money for law school.

BEG, would you be teaching English, or law, or something else entirely? I have a few friends that are moving to Korea to teach English after their Spring 2010 graduation, and I've heard that they have a lot of opportunities. Would it be possible for you to get a job with an international law firm in Japan, or as a corporate lawyer for a business? Excuse me if my questions are entirely silly. I'm trying as hard as I can to get a feel for life and jobs after law school, because I never thought about it when I chose my major in college (ridiculous, right? I was 17 and I pretty much said, 'hey, that sounds interesting!' and while I'm thankful I chose it, because it is interesting and I'm doing really amazing research in subjects that relate and interest me infinitely, my major doesn't really offer any jobs outside of academia) .

 

[Indylady]

Date: 2/24/2010 11:31:21 PM
Author: Lilac

Date: 2/24/2010 9:29:31 PM
Author: IndyLady
Hey Lilac!

I''m also graduating in May. I''m in a similar boat: I''ve been accepted to a great top 50 law school with one of the most affordable tuition rates in the country, and best of all I''ll still be within a few hours of my family.
It feels great to know I have somewhere to go, and also that its a good program that I''ll be able to fund without a lot of stress.

That being said, I still haven''t heard back from my dream school (Northwestern) but I did get waitlisted for my second choice (UVA). The difference in cost between my dream schools and the school I''ve been admitted to are the same, $15,000 compared to $50,000. I''m not sure which I''d pick if I did get into my dream school; the experience of studying at a top law school is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I''m so sure of graduating with $150,000 of debt.

Occupational therapy? Is that similar to working in Human Resources, or somewhat like Organizational Behavior? I''m a Sociology major and I thought of going into OB, but I ended up changing my mind. How long is the program?

It''s such a tough decision when it comes to going to a really great dream school but leaving with tons of debt, or going to a decent/good school but leaving with little or no debt. I don''t know what I''ll do if it comes to making the decision...

Occupational Therapy is actually nothing like Human Resources - Occupational therapists can work in many different settings - they can work with spinal cord injury patients and help them adapt to their injuries and learn how to do things in new ways (for example, if someone with a spinal cord injury can''t get dressed the way they were able to before the injury, an occupational therapist would teach them new ways to get dressed now that they have the injury - ways to adapt). An OT can also work with kids who are developmentally disabled. OTs can work with stroke patients in a rehab setting or elderly patients as well. It all depends on what you want to specialize in

.

Lilac, what is your specialty going to be?

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 2/25/2010 4:44:43 PM
Author: IloveAsschers13

Date: 2/25/2010 8:58:52 AM

Author: IndyLady

Hi Iloveasschers!

Congratulations on your graduation! Are you excited to be a teacher? I have a roommate that''s an early childhood ed. major and she''s been interning all semester. She loves it! And she''s always coming home with goodies, like sugar-ed rice from a Japanese tea party, chocolates from a Valentine''s day party, or ''snow'' that they made in class. Plus, I love hearing all of the ''kids say the darned-est things'' moments.



ETA: And edible play-doh! All the roomies were jealous of that one too.

Yep, I am excited. And I know what you meant about your post, but let me tell you it is HARD WORK. I have put so much time into my education that is outside of the classroom that while I am looking forward to my intern year, I am also not looking forward to the amount of work I am going to be expected to do. You see, I will be teaching all lessons by the end of the school year and MSU requires us to go to grad school classes every Fri, so it''s going to be a lot of work. I know a ton of people who HATE it. Kids do really say the darned-est things but keep in mind it''s hard too! We are practically raising these kids while they are in our classroom since we are in the lower el grades. You would just be SHOCKED of stories and experiences we have and these children have as well.

Congratulations to everyone graduating!

ILA -- I hope you have a great year interning! I did a full year internship when I student taught, and I have to say, it was SOOOO worth it to have that year long experience in the same classroom. I''m assuming you''ll be in the same room/grade all year, but please correct me if I''m wrong. I loved my internship year because we began the school year with the staff, ended it in June with the students, and we were considered the kids'' other teacher (as opposed to "just" a student teacher that the kids had for a few months before they moved on somewhere else to complete their student teaching). It will be so beneficial for you to see a school year through. It''s a ton of work (and even more with a class on top of teaching!), but it really does prepare you.

 

[Lilac]

Date: 3/9/2010 3:57:43 PM
Author: IndyLady

Lilac, what is your specialty going to be?

I''m not really sure yet. I would love to work with spinal cord injury patients because that''s what inspired me to go into this field. My uncle is paralyzed and confined to a wheelchair, and he always talked about how much his occupational therapists helped him adjust to life after his injury, so I would love to help people in that way. However, I just don''t know if I can handle it emotionally. I would imagine it must be incredibly emotionally draining to work with people who have sustained such serious life-altering injuries. I don''t know if I can handle that day in and day out (I wish I could, but I just haven''t figured out if I can yet).

If I decide not to specialize in spinal cord injury OT, I might want to work with children (although then there''s the issue of spending all day working with children with behavior or developmental issues which could be physically and mentally draining and then coming home to my OWN kids - I really do love kids, but I don''t want to use up all my patience with other peoples'' children and then when I get home at the end of the day be too burnt out to take care of my own children!) But then again, it can be so rewarding working with kids and I recently spent 6 months volunteering/observing at a pediatric practice and I really enjoyed it.

The first two years of the occupational therapy programs I applied to are classroom-based learning. The last 6-9 months of the program is field work. We are placed in a mental health facility to work for 3 months (traumatic brain injuries, etc.) and then we are placed in a rehab facility for 3 months (spinal cord injuries, physical disabilities and injuries, etc.). If we choose to, we can do an additional field work in a pediatric practice if we decide we might want to go that route. At the end of school, we graduate, take the licensing exam, and then we can specialize in whatever area we choose to (or whatever area we can get a job in!) So I technically don''t have to decide what to specialize in for another 2-3 years.

 

[sillyberry]

Date: 3/9/2010 3:56:38 PM
Author: IndyLady
Sillyberry, I am going straight through. I''ve been poking around for a job, but it really hasn''t been easy. I have, however, really seriously been looking into internships. Are there any particular internships that you think would be a good idea to look into? I might try going through the Washington Center (only for the internships with stipends); I know a lot of people that have loved their experience with it, but I think it just doesn''t make any sense to pay for an un-paid internship. If I don''t get in anywhere I really wanted to go, then I think that I will postpone law school for a year and take the LSAT again in June. What did you do on your time off? I''m concerned about getting out of the ''school mode'' and loosing momentum. However, working would give me a little time to save money for law school.

Without knowing you or your interests, it is kind of hard to make recommendations. I''m not trying to be unhelpful, I just wouldn''t have any idea where to start.

During the time I was out, I chillaxed some, did a bunch of political and campaign internships (unpaid), worked at a campaign committee for an election cycle, then chillaxed some more.

Two other points: first, I don''t think it is necessary to do an internship. You can just have a job. I think we''ve all gotten a little obsessed with everything we do being meaningful, and it doesn''t have to be. I learned more from working as an assistant to a woman who ran her consulting business from her basement than I did in a lot of "fancy" internships I held.

Second, don''t worry about getting back into school mode. Either you get out of school mode and realize you didn''t actually want to go to law school, or you can''t wait and are a better student from having taken time off!

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 3/9/2010 10:55:03 PM
Author: sillyberry

Date: 3/9/2010 3:56:38 PM

Author: IndyLady

Sillyberry, I am going straight through. I''ve been poking around for a job, but it really hasn''t been easy. I have, however, really seriously been looking into internships. Are there any particular internships that you think would be a good idea to look into? I might try going through the Washington Center (only for the internships with stipends); I know a lot of people that have loved their experience with it, but I think it just doesn''t make any sense to pay for an un-paid internship. If I don''t get in anywhere I really wanted to go, then I think that I will postpone law school for a year and take the LSAT again in June. What did you do on your time off? I''m concerned about getting out of the ''school mode'' and loosing momentum. However, working would give me a little time to save money for law school.

Without knowing you or your interests, it is kind of hard to make recommendations. I''m not trying to be unhelpful, I just wouldn''t have any idea where to start.


During the time I was out, I chillaxed some, did a bunch of political and campaign internships (unpaid), worked at a campaign committee for an election cycle, then chillaxed some more.


Two other points: first, I don''t think it is necessary to do an internship. You can just have a job. I think we''ve all gotten a little obsessed with everything we do being meaningful, and it doesn''t have to be. I learned more from working as an assistant to a woman who ran her consulting business from her basement than I did in a lot of ''fancy'' internships I held.


Second, don''t worry about getting back into school mode. Either you get out of school mode and realize you didn''t actually want to go to law school, or you can''t wait and are a better student from having taken time off!

+1

To answer your other question Indy (sorry for not coming back to this thread sooner!) I actually did go straight through, and I kind of regret it. I mean, I like being a student and I like school - I personally wouldn''t mind spending a few more years in it, y''know? But maybe a year or two off would have made me really consider whether I wanted to go to LAW school...

And I agree with SB. It''s fine to just have a job. I mean, Northwestern gives full-tuition scholarships to some students if they only defer a year and do whatever - work as a paralegal, work as a barista, whatever.

And again agree with SB. Don''t worry about getting back into school mode - actually quite a few of the really good students that I know of have been out of school for a year or two or more.