A poll: F SI1 vs G VS2 (3.03 carat Round Brilliant)

[trl74]

Hey everyone,

First off, thanks to everyone who's shared their expertise on this site. It's really great to get the honest opinions of diamond shoppers, rather than the conflicting and (often) biased opinions of diamond sellers (at least the few I've come across!)

I plan to propose in late August or September, with a Round Brilliant solitaire set in platinum (either a 'Tiffany-style' setting, as she suggested, or a 'tapered-cathedral', which I kinda liked

My budget is around $35,000.

I've looked at several stones, but due to varying lighting conditions, and jewelry store 'tricks', I can't quite decide which approach to take: F-color and SI1 clarity, or G-color and VS2 clarity. I'm shooting for 2.75 to 3.10 ct. Both scenarios can be found online, in my price range. Which leads to my other question:

I'm very impressed with the service, reputation, and (most of all) price of Blue Nile. Can anyone share an experience with that company?


Thanks in advance,

Tim

PS This is my first post, and I may have set up the 'poll' choices incorrectly - sorry about that! Please cast your vote/comment/suggestion(s) in the reply thread - thanks!

 

[Imdanny]

Hi, yes, I only see one possibility to vote for- seems kind of rigged.

 

[Ellen]

Assuming these stones are very well cut, because cut is key to a beautiful diamond, either of those choices would be fine. You could even go G SI1, possibly. at this size, finding totally eyeclean can get a bit trickier.

As for BN, there are happy customers here who have purchased from them. However, the biggest drawback is they don't provide much information on their stones. Many of us prefer vendors that offer Idealscope/ASET photos, Sarin/Helium reports, etc. When you're making a purchase this important, the more info the better, if only to keep you from having to return the stone should you not like it. They do have a generous return policy though.

 

[phoenixgirl]

A stone is either going to be eye-clean or it''s not, but in this carat weight range I think the safer bet is G VS2 if you''re going to go with a vendor like BlueNile where you can''t ask as many questions or request photos ahead of time.

Have you looked at stones on JamesAllen? They have pretty competitive pricing and have photos of many of their stones. You will quickly get a sense of how the GIA report (which may say excellent cut) and VS2 or SI1 clarity doesn''t really prepare you for how the stone will look or what the inclusions will look like. You''ll notice a big variation in the symmetry and arrow patterns in the pictures. Just a few to show you what I mean:

SI1, GIA excellent, thin arrows, dark inclusions
VS2, GIA excellent, fat arrows, cleaner stone
SI1, AGS (cert not linked), appearance of leakage in table, two dark inclusions
SI1, GIA (cert not linked), similar look to last stone, brown and white inclusions

This isn''t the color you want, but the images look really good: J SI1

By just using certs alone, you would think you''d probably be getting eye-clean stones (which they still could be since we''re viewing them under magnification, but dark spots are more troublesome than white) with comparable cuts, but many of these stones have spots that might be problematic. My recommendation is to work with a vendor who can provide you the competitive pricing you want but also make sure that you are getting a stone whose clarity and cut are commensurate with the size, color, and price that you''re going for. In other words, I think it''d be a shame to spend that much on a stone only to have a good but not great cut and possible inclusion issues. BlueNile''s Signature stones come with a GCAL report which give you the cut info you''re looking for, but they also are priced way out of your range for what you want: Blue Nile 3.08 G VS2 Signature Ideal for $58k (Coincidentally, I don''t even like the picture of the stone on this report -- arrows are way too thin -- ick!)

I have used BlueNile and its competitor Mondera for stud earrings and pendants where I picked the stones based on their certs alone and have no complaints, but for an engagement diamond, especially one of this size, I''d want assurance that I am not going to be disappointed by the inclusions or the cut.

 

[jstarfireb]

There are certain diamonds I would not buy from BN...this would include a very large diamond, anything below VS2 clarity, and a fancy shape. Nothing against BN; they''re certainly a reputable vendor, and I got my wedding band from them. But most people here at PS, myself included, prefer a vendor that can show them photos and reflector images before making such a big purchase. To that end, I''ll ditto phoenix and suggest taking a look at James Allen. They have comparable prices and stock, but unlike BN, they will inspect the diamond in question, take photos and IS, and verify whether it''s eye-clean. Also, they have an upgrade policy, unlike BN...not that you''ll need it with that carat range!

If you are still happy to stick with BN, I would get the VS2. The color will not be perceptible, but it''s a little risky to buy any SI diamond that you can''t see or have a trusted person with good vision look at to verify that it''s eye-clean before you buy. Consider choosing an AGS-graded stone with a cut grade of 0 (ideal). And finally, note the depth, table, and angles (crown and pavilion) so you can post them here for the experts to evaluate.

 

[kalare]

Though I''ve never worked with BN I''ve purchased stones from both WF and ERD. Most recently I just purchased a stone from ERD that was the EXACT same stone that was listed on BN''s website from their virual inventory (which is probably where you''ll be getting your stone from if you''re not purchasing a BN signature cut). All of BN''s non signature cut is drop shipped, so like others said, they never see the stone, and cannot give you any additional information. The exact same stone on BN''s virtual inventory was pulled for me by Mark T. at ERD and he got me a price a good 8% lower than what BN''s price was (this will differ depending on stones of course).

I''d really recommend taking a week or so to just research on here about what kind of things to ask a vendor for (i.e. IS and ASET images, photos, SARIN...etc.). If you really like those stones at BN, I would also suggest contacting Mark T. at Engagement Rings Direct (ERD) and having him pull those exact stones for you (you can forward him the reports, he can get them most likely), get you some more information and give you a price. He''s located right in the heart of the New York Diamond District and has access to more stones than most of the other vendors. You can also give him, and other vendors like WF, GOG and James Allen your price range and desired ct weight, color and clarity and they''ll find stones for you. I would trust any of those vendors to find a great performing stone if you don''t have the luxury of seeing before you buy.

Hope to help, Good luck!

 

[DiamondFlame]

Congratulations! If I''m spending that kind of money, I''d probably scout around a little bit more and figure out which of the 4Cs hold higher priority. Certificates don''t tell the full story.

Btw you mentioned you''re impressed with BN''s service (among others). Was this based on first hand experience?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

For $35K, I would want close up shots and as much details as possible and would not shop a vendor who doesn''t provide all that. Even when it comes to a smaller purchase, I''d expect the exact same.

 

[prettycat]

Blue Nile is not a Pricescope vendor. If you ask about BN on this forum, you won''t get many postive comments. Most likely people will recommend other vendors to you, like WF, GOG and JA, etc.
I didn''t have a lot of experience with BN. I just bought a band from them and it''s the best value I found for the price.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/7/2009 2:12:33 PM
Author: prettycat
Blue Nile is not a Pricescope vendor. If you ask about BN on this forum, you won''t get many postive comments. Most likely people will recommend other vendors to you, like WF, GOG and JA, etc.
I didn''t have a lot of experience with BN. I just bought a band from them and it''s the best value I found for the price.

Many have purchased from BN and have had great experiences. . .Personally, I picked WF when buying three loose diamonds mostly because of what they offer in way of images not because they''re not a PS vendor. Even if they were a vendor, I wouldn''t purchase w/out more info, and also probably not because they''re located in my state and I''d have to pay sales tax!

 

[elle_chris]

First i want to ask. where are you finding a 3ct G, VS2 for 35k? I have a 2.52 that was around that and while I know prices have dropped, i haven''t seen any. At least nothing with great light performance.

Assuming they''re both great cuts, I''d go with the G, VS2 thinking there''s a better chance of it being eye clean.

 

[MMT]

I would prefer the G VS2. Sounds like it''s going to be an incredible ring

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 6/7/2009 2:12:33 PM
Author: prettycat
Blue Nile is not a Pricescope vendor. If you ask about BN on this forum, you won''t get many postive comments. Most likely people will recommend other vendors to you, like WF, GOG and JA, etc.
I didn''t have a lot of experience with BN. I just bought a band from them and it''s the best value I found for the price.

Not true. I just saw a Blue Nile ad here on Pricescope.

I''ve purchased a couple of small diamonds from Blue Nile and am very happy with them. They definitely gave good value for the price. Part of the reason is because they do not give all of the extra pictures and scans that other Pricescope vendors do. If I was going to purchase a larger diamond from Blue Nile, however, I would be sure to use an independent appraiser.

 

[risingsun]

I would choose a G VS2. Happy looking and come back with pics!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 6/7/2009 2:12:33 PM
Author: prettycat
Blue Nile is not a Pricescope vendor. If you ask about BN on this forum, you won''t get many postive comments. Most likely people will recommend other vendors to you, like WF, GOG and JA, etc.
I didn''t have a lot of experience with BN. I just bought a band from them and it''s the best value I found for the price.

oops, yep, it does look like BN is a PS vendor

http://www.pricescope.com/dealers.asp

 

[Kaleigh]

I''d go for the G Vs2.

 

[beach]

Date: 6/7/2009 3:03:43 PM
Author: elle_chris
First i want to ask. where are you finding a 3ct G, VS2 for 35k? I have a 2.52 that was around that and while I know prices have dropped, i haven''t seen any. At least nothing with great light performance.

Assuming they''re both great cuts, I''d go with the G, VS2 thinking there''s a better chance of it being eye clean.

An ideal cut 3ct G VS2 for 35k? Please provide links.

 

[AprilBaby]

All things equal I would take the G Vs2.

 

[icekid]

I think either color/clarity combo would be perfectly acceptable to me. The important thing is to figure out what your and your gf''s preferences are. While bluenile would not be my first choice vendor to spend that much money, you can always return if necessary. Stones of that size are always easy to find!

 

[marcy]

For a pendant I would go for ideal cut, G or better color with naked eye clarity. I agree if I was going to buy something that expensive online I would work with a dealer who provides all the images you want. Have fun shopping.

 

[trl74]

Thanks to everyone who responded - I seriously appreciate all the advice.

I have to clarify a bit: there would be a bit of a carat weight drop with the G-VS2 stone (BN has a 2.63 ct G-VS2, Ideal cut, GIA cert for 32,650 right now - sorry, my lack of computer skill prohibits me from posting a link!) So, a fairer question is,

3.03 F SI1 Round Brilliant Ideal Cut (GIA Excellent cut)

vs

2.65 G VS2 Round Brilliant Ideal Cut (GIA Excellent cut)

However, I''m really getting the impression that it''s simply impossible to determine ''eye-clean'' with a GIA report alone. Bluenile claims they can send someone to look at the stone and see if it''s eyeclean in a business day or two, at no charge. Is this useful?

Thanks again

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 6/7/2009 9:23:38 PM
Author: trl74
Thanks to everyone who responded - I seriously appreciate all the advice.

I have to clarify a bit: there would be a bit of a carat weight drop with the G-VS2 stone (BN has a 2.63 ct G-VS2, Ideal cut, GIA cert for 32,650 right now - sorry, my lack of computer skill prohibits me from posting a link!) So, a fairer question is,

3.03 F SI1 Round Brilliant Ideal Cut (GIA Excellent cut)

vs

2.65 G VS2 Round Brilliant Ideal Cut (GIA Excellent cut)

However, I''m really getting the impression that it''s simply impossible to determine ''eye-clean'' with a GIA report alone. Bluenile claims they can send someone to look at the stone and see if it''s eyeclean in a business day or two, at no charge. Is this useful?

Thanks again

Absolutely. I wouldn''t consider the stone if they say it isn''t eye clean.

But, if it is eye clean, you need to be very clear as to what the definition of eye ckean is. For example, eye clean stones may well have visible inclusions from the side, since the stone is judged from the top.

 

[kalare]

I''d really suggest having Mark T. from ERD look at the stones. Not only can he tell you if they''re eye clean, but he''s an expert at RB cuts and will be able to tell you if they perform up to par as well. Like I said before, just send him the GIA reports you download from BN and he''ll probably be able to walk down the street (or in the same building) and just pick them up for you. He can also provide you with real pictures of the stone, as well as Ideal scope and ASET photos.

Also, unless you''re really in a time crunch or really set on purchasing from BN, I''d also suggest to expand your options like I stated above. Contact multiple vendors with your criteria and you''ll have many more stones to chose from. More options is always better.

 

[Imdanny]

Whiteflash has a DEFINITION of eye clean. You might want to check whether BN does, in other words exactly what they mean when they tell you that it is eye clean.

I don''t have enough information about these diamonds to say which one I might choose.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i''ll take either one if well cut and eye clean.

 

[Lorelei]

Make sure that you let them know if you don''t want to see any visible inclusions from any angle at close scrutiny that they understand this. Those are big diamonds and will need careful evaluation for this as larger stones can show inclusions more readily.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/7/2009 9:43:47 PM
Author: Fly Girl

Date: 6/7/2009 9:23:38 PM
Author: trl74
Thanks to everyone who responded - I seriously appreciate all the advice.

I have to clarify a bit: there would be a bit of a carat weight drop with the G-VS2 stone (BN has a 2.63 ct G-VS2, Ideal cut, GIA cert for 32,650 right now - sorry, my lack of computer skill prohibits me from posting a link!) So, a fairer question is,

3.03 F SI1 Round Brilliant Ideal Cut (GIA Excellent cut)

vs

2.65 G VS2 Round Brilliant Ideal Cut (GIA Excellent cut)

However, I''m really getting the impression that it''s simply impossible to determine ''eye-clean'' with a GIA report alone. Bluenile claims they can send someone to look at the stone and see if it''s eyeclean in a business day or two, at no charge. Is this useful?

Thanks again

Absolutely. I wouldn''t consider the stone if they say it isn''t eye clean.

But, if it is eye clean, you need to be very clear as to what the definition of eye ckean is. For example, eye clean stones may well have visible inclusions from the side, since the stone is judged from the top.

I will have to slightly disagree with my dear friend here, and say it could be useful. BN has been known to say a stone is eyeclean when it wasn''t. More than once, or twice, or thrice....

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 6/8/2009 9:40:14 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 6/7/2009 9:43:47 PM
Author: Fly Girl

Date: 6/7/2009 9:23:38 PM
Author: trl74
Thanks to everyone who responded - I seriously appreciate all the advice.

I have to clarify a bit: there would be a bit of a carat weight drop with the G-VS2 stone (BN has a 2.63 ct G-VS2, Ideal cut, GIA cert for 32,650 right now - sorry, my lack of computer skill prohibits me from posting a link!) So, a fairer question is,

3.03 F SI1 Round Brilliant Ideal Cut (GIA Excellent cut)

vs

2.65 G VS2 Round Brilliant Ideal Cut (GIA Excellent cut)

However, I''m really getting the impression that it''s simply impossible to determine ''eye-clean'' with a GIA report alone. Bluenile claims they can send someone to look at the stone and see if it''s eyeclean in a business day or two, at no charge. Is this useful?

Thanks again

Absolutely. I wouldn''t consider the stone if they say it isn''t eye clean.

But, if it is eye clean, you need to be very clear as to what the definition of eye ckean is. For example, eye clean stones may well have visible inclusions from the side, since the stone is judged from the top.

I will have to slightly disagree with my dear friend here, and say it could be useful. BN has been known to say a stone is eyeclean when it wasn''t. More than once, or twice, or thrice....

Actually, I do agree with Ellen. The evaluation is most useful if BN says the stone is not eyeclean. Much less useful if they say it is eyeclean. I guess that when you asked if having BN check the stone was useful, I don''t see a reason to not have them view it. The information you receive should be viewed in context, as Ellen points out.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/8/2009 10:16:06 AM
Author: Fly Girl

Date: 6/8/2009 9:40:14 AM
Author: Ellen

I will have to slightly disagree with my dear friend here, and say it could be useful. BN has been known to say a stone is eyeclean when it wasn''t. More than once, or twice, or thrice....

Actually, I do agree with Ellen. The evaluation is most useful if BN says the stone is not eyeclean. Much less useful if they say it is eyeclean. I guess that when you asked if having BN check the stone was useful, I don''t see a reason to not have them view it. The information you receive should be viewed in context, as Ellen points out.

I would totally agree there!