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A little guidance/direction for engagement ring purchase

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stuinkc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
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Greetings,

Newby here undergoing the daunting task of picking out an engagement ring. Have just started trying to educate myself and shop in the past 4-6 weeks. I''m looking for a solitaire with a budget of $5000. The size needs to be at least one carat. (Budget is slightly flexible higher)The gf thinks that the helzberg radiant star is the diamond she wants after visiting the local helzberg store and a 1.02 ct solitaire/round diamond was in that price range. I''m wondering if helzberg uses that cut to hide inferior diamonds and inclusions? But, does it matter if that shine/brilliance is present because of a the cut on a lesser diamond if that is in my price range and what i''m looking to spend? I have a basic understanding of the 4 c''s and gia and agl grading, otherwise, all these fancy report and readings and computer images and measurements are giving me a headache. I would be thrilled to have some dialogue with someone who can give some unbiased advise and direction. Whats the best value I can get for that price range? And, anybody have a rule of thumb on negotiating and what to offer at retail stores, i was thinking that at least 20-30% off would be a great starting point for an offer. I''m getting a headache and would love to actually purchase in the next 30-60 days... Thoughts and help greatly appreciated.
 
I think you have a lot of questions and it is hard to know where to start! I'll give it a try...





The gf thinks that the helzberg radiant star is the diamond she wants after visiting the local helzberg store and a 1.02 ct solitaire/round diamond was in that price range.
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I have never heard of this particular brand , but I did a search on PS (you should too) and it looks like it is just a brand of diamond that comes in many different shapes, but it is not a very good brand, especially when it comes to the certs that accompany the diamonds. I'd stay away from it and get your gf a better diamond of the same shape that she loved. Was it a round or cushion or pricess that she liked? ETA oops I see it was an RB she liked. Is this right





I have a basic understanding of the 4 c's and gia and agl grading, otherwise, all these fancy report and readings and computer images and measurements are giving me a headache. I would be thrilled to have some dialogue with someone who can give some unbiased advise and direction.
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It is actually fairly simple once you get the hang of it after, oh, a year on PS
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Unless you discover an innate love of diamond knowlegde, it is the simplest thing to just ask the PS community to help you find a diamond or to assess a diamond that you find at a B&M stone (brick and morter/non internet store). In general, though, the reports and numbers that will help you buy the right diamond will differ based on the shape of diamond you are interested in purchasing. So the very first thing you need to figure out is what type of cut you want. If you tell us what shape we can help you with the numbers and images etc.





Whats the best value I can get for that price range?
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Depends on the shape you want! I will say that almost unequivocally you will get your best value buying from a PS recommended internet vendor.





And, anybody have a rule of thumb on negotiating and what to offer at retail stores, i was thinking that at least 20-30% off would be a great starting point for an offer. I'm getting a headache and would love to actually purchase in the next 30-60 days... Thoughts and help greatly appreciated.
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I say don't bother with any store that will let you negotiate. Why? Because you should deal with a vendor that is selling diamonds at a fair market price. Then you will get what you pay for! If they have room to haggle then they are inflating the prices to begin with and if they agree to sell it to you at a certain price you can bet it is still a win for them. As I mentioned, before, the best prices are on the internet where they are marked up by the smallest margin relative to wholesale. If you buy from a vendor with an excellent reputation on PS, then your purchanse is perfectly safe. If you feel more comfortable with a B&M, you can research the fair market value of diamonds here on PS and make sure you pay the right price that way.

So let us know what shape yo ureally want and we can go from there.
 
ooops, sorry. i''m interested in purchasing a round diamond, price range $5000, brilliance/sparkle is of utmost importance.
 
I''d definitely recommend skipping the Radiant Star. The problem is that when you have 145 facets, unless the diamond is EXTREMELY large the visual events of sparkle and fire become so small that the eye really can''t detect them under normal lighting. They look great under the extremely bright store lights, but unless you plan on carrying a halogen spotlight everywhere you go, the diamond won''t really perform as well as a well cut round brilliant.

Helzberg has done a good job with marketing the RS diamonds (especially if you listen to Royals games on the radio), but the actual product doesn''t live up to the hype. The cut does help to mask inclusions and poor cut by being so "busy", but is mostly a marketing ploy. "Hey, if 56 facets is good, 145 must be three times better, right?."

Looking at their website, a 1ct solitaire is 5299, which doesn''t seem too bad until you look closer to see that it is a H-I, I1 diamond, graded by IGI. IGI is known to be soft on grading, so you may actually be buying a K-L, I2 diamond if graded by a top tier lab like GIA or AGS.
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For reference, here are examples of what the same budget can get you from a PS recommended vendor. Better color and clarity, but most important, better cut, which is what will determine brilliance and sparkle.

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2080405.htm

with a simple solitaire setting

http://www.whiteflash.com/golden-wardrobe/Gold_Details.aspx?ItemCode=ST6PW&CategID=13

or something a little different, still a solitaire

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/Hand-Over-Hand-Diamond-Solitaire_1341.htm#


or a couple of possibilities from another vendor

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1235895.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1176730.asp (ask if eye clean)

with any one of a number of their solitaire settings.
 
Radiant star looks to be a cushion.

But then you mention a round solitare. They are very different looks. Since you stated Radiant Star, I'm going to advise you to get a cushion.

Personally I'd go for this exact diamond... http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5827/ because it's gorgeous. Has high color, (check if eyeclean), and will sparkle like crazy. It's got an excellent cut. And will be like a star on her finger. It's also a carat and has very good spread for a cushion ( 6x 6 is very good for a 1 carat cushion). And the price is right. I'd put this sucker on hold IMMEDIATELY.

And then (if eyeclean) I'd stick it in this setting and I'd knock her socks off. http://shop.goodoldgold.com/index.cfm/a/catalog.prodshow/vid/46574/catid/162 (I've seen this setting in person).

And BAM, you've got a one carat F cushion, from one of the best jewelers on here (or anywhere IMO), in a gorgeous diamond setting (that has a lovely matching band, which I've also seen), with a 30 day return policy... ALL AT BUDGET (total if you bank wire your funds to them will be almost exactly 5k).
 
Date: 6/14/2009 4:25:00 AM
Author: Gypsy
Radiant star looks to be a cushion.

But then you mention a round solitare. They are very different looks. Since you stated Radiant Star, I'm going to advise you to get a cushion.

Personally I'd go for this exact diamond... http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5827/ because it's gorgeous. Has high color, (check if eyeclean), and will sparkle like crazy. It's got an excellent cut. And will be like a star on her finger. It's also a carat and has very good spread for a cushion ( 6x 6 is very good for a 1 carat cushion). And the price is right. I'd put this sucker on hold IMMEDIATELY.

And then (if eyeclean) I'd stick it in this setting and I'd knock her socks off. http://shop.goodoldgold.com/index.cfm/a/catalog.prodshow/vid/46574/catid/162 (I've seen this setting in person).

And BAM, you've got a one carat F cushion, from one of the best jewelers on here (or anywhere IMO), in a gorgeous diamond setting (that has a lovely matching band, which I've also seen), with a 30 day return policy... ALL AT BUDGET (total if you bank wire your funds to them will be almost exactly 5k).
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Oookay. My bad. "Radiant Star" is apparently a collection not a cut.

So the round thing makes sense now.

Yeah. You aren't going to get a one carat Ideal F SI in a round soliare for 5K. You're gonna have to make sacrifices.

If that Infinity I color I clarity stone is eyeclean, it's ideal cut and will sparkle like nothing you've ever seen. That M is lovely, but I would not buy an M for another person unless they specifically wanted one. I'd take an eyeclean and SAFE (and insured) I clarity diamond over an M for another person (safer choice) hands down.

To give you other options, since you said your buget was slightly flexible though... here are two at James Allen that if eyeclean are Hearts and Arrows and AGS0.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218727.asp 1.0 G SI 5,500 with Pricescope discount.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218733.asp 1.0 H SI for 5,226 with Pricescope discount.

And then you can put either one in this setting. It will cost you more than 5K. Closer to 6K. But it will get her what she wants, and in a high quality diamond, from a solid vendor.

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/solitaire-rings.html $330 18K basket setting.

 
a big thank you to everyone that has responded. im going to really focus in on whiteflash and infinity at high performance diamonds, love the hearts and arrows rounds. my biggest question now is, i''d like to lay my eyes on one at a jewelry store, am i going to be able to find something in this cut and quality at a jewelry store in kansas city so i can just actually see what it looks like prior purchasing one on line? Seems like a lot of money to spend without having a real good idea what is going to show up.
 
Date: 6/14/2009 8:38:03 AM
Author: stuinkc
a big thank you to everyone that has responded. im going to really focus in on whiteflash and infinity at high performance diamonds, love the hearts and arrows rounds. my biggest question now is, i''d like to lay my eyes on one at a jewelry store, am i going to be able to find something in this cut and quality at a jewelry store in kansas city so i can just actually see what it looks like prior purchasing one on line? Seems like a lot of money to spend without having a real good idea what is going to show up.
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Try Hearts on Fire branded h&a if there is a dealer near you.
 
Date: 6/14/2009 8:40:47 AM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 6/14/2009 8:38:03 AM

Author: stuinkc

a big thank you to everyone that has responded. im going to really focus in on whiteflash and infinity at high performance diamonds, love the hearts and arrows rounds. my biggest question now is, i''d like to lay my eyes on one at a jewelry store, am i going to be able to find something in this cut and quality at a jewelry store in kansas city so i can just actually see what it looks like prior purchasing one on line? Seems like a lot of money to spend without having a real good idea what is going to show up.
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Try Hearts on Fire branded h&a if there is a dealer near you.
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Ditto on the hearts on fire; also, if there''s a Jared''s in KC, look at their Peerless line. Have the sales person show you some of their "regular cut" diamonds, and then wander over to the Hearts on Fire or Peerless case, and your eyes will know the difference. Those brands will give you an idea of what an ideal cut diamond (ACA from Whiteflash; Infinity from High Performance Diamonds, as you mentioned) will look like. Even if you choose a stone that''s slightly under 1 carat, the superior cut will make it look larger than your typical average cut stone; that''s the difference cut makes!
 
lol, dang it! i was in jared last week, it was the first store i actually set foot in to try and get a feel for what size and clarity looked like in person. i will head back in their on my next day off and get a good look at the peerless, which is their ideal cut tolkowsky diamond, for apperance and pricing. then i will pull up some diamonds i like at whiteflash and highperformance diamonds and get some feedback from everyone. im actually getting rather exciited because i''ve found diamonds at both sites in the 5000 price range in both the infinity category and the wf hearts and arrows that the gf i think would asbsolutely love.

on another note, one of the things the b&m stores preached was lifetime guarantees on their diamonds against chipping and problems etc, is this truly a concern that I should be worried about buying online and having a problem with the diamond at some point in time down the line?
 
Date: 6/14/2009 10:09:44 AM
Author: stuinkc
lol, dang it! i was in jared last week, it was the first store i actually set foot in to try and get a feel for what size and clarity looked like in person. i will head back in their on my next day off and get a good look at the peerless, which is their ideal cut tolkowsky diamond, for apperance and pricing. then i will pull up some diamonds i like at whiteflash and highperformance diamonds and get some feedback from everyone. im actually getting rather exciited because i've found diamonds at both sites in the 5000 price range in both the infinity category and the wf hearts and arrows that the gf i think would asbsolutely love.

on another note, one of the things the b&m stores preached was lifetime guarantees on their diamonds against chipping and problems etc, is this truly a concern that I should be worried about buying online and having a problem with the diamond at some point in time down the line?
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I don't know if the Jared Peerless are actual h&a diamonds, they are AGS0 but I am not sure if they are actual h&a. However they should be well cut which will give you an idea.

Personally I think you are better off with a good insurance policy on your ring rather than a store warranty, if this is what you want read the terms and conditions and small print very carefully.
 
Ditto Lorelei on H&A and insurance. I don''t know if Jared''s markets their Peerless diamonds as H&A, but at the store I went to, the sales associates were referring to them as "ideal cut."

Anyplace that is selling "hearts and arrows" diamonds should be able to show you hearts images (they should provide you a special viewer to look at the diamonds with).

As for insurance, get your ring and setting appraised by an independent appraiser and then use that to get a rider on your homeowner''s insurance. Adding a rider to your insurance is not that expensive and simplifies things, imho. Just FYI, I just bought an Infinity diamond and Infinity is offering one year of insurance with the purchase of any Infinity diamond. This did give me some additional peace of mind during the buying/stone setting process. I do plan to get it appraised and added to a rider on my own homeowner''s insurance.
 
They are all super diamonds, you would need to check that they are eyeclean to your standards and particularly with the I1 Infinity by asking the respective vendors.
 
If you're willing to swing the higher price, the second one is a sure winner. You could always call to see if the first is eyeclean, and if it is, that's a good stone as well, I however would not want an I1 stone. The third stone is probably a great performer, but the pavillion angle is a little high. The infinity diamonds you posted are cut to a higher standard. If I had to chose today, I would buy that second stone.
 
Date: 6/14/2009 11:08:16 AM
Author: kalare
If you''re willing to swing the higher price, the second one is a sure winner. You could always call to see if the first is eyeclean, and if it is, that''s a good stone as well, I however would not want an I1 stone. The third stone is probably a great performer, but the pavillion angle is a little high. The infinity diamonds you posted are cut to a higher standard. If I had to chose today, I would buy that second stone.
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No its fine actually.
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yap, nothing wrong with pav angle for that crown angle.
 
Stuinkc,

If you''re too impatient to wait till your next day off to get a sense of the difference between a diamond from one of the online vendors you''re looking at and an average store-bought diamond, check out Good Old Gold''s videos here.

There are a few comparisons in that library between GOG''s H&A diamonds and more run-of-the-mill AGS0s.

Jonathan (Rhino) over at GOG recently said in another thread that he considers his H&A diamonds to be similar to the best HOF stones out there. Judging from his videos and GOG''s reputation on this forum, he isn''t exaggerating. You''re likely to get the same top-notch quality from WF & HPD, particularly if you''re running your selections by the "pros" (not me!) on this thread.

Best of luck!
 
Date: 6/14/2009 12:16:03 PM
Author: stuinkc
so, this is the one i''m focusing in on, its as far as my budget can go, any thoughts recommendations on something better for the money out there:

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=413
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Great stone! Ditto Lorelei on checking eye-clean. When you talk to Wink, you can also ask if he would do a short video of the diamond so you would have a better idea of what it will look like in person.
 
Date: 6/14/2009 11:19:36 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
yap, nothing wrong with pav angle for that crown angle.
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Whoops...I stand corrected, I was looking at the 43 percentage...
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You guys are right...40.8 is definately not too shabby!
 
Date: 6/14/2009 4:47:06 AM
Author: Gypsy
And I KNOW you said a carat. But visually you aren''t going to see a difference in spread between this .94 and the James Allen stones at 1.0 that I linked you to. And Infinity really is special. If this one is eyeclean. I would (personally) seriously consider this one... http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=574
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Nice one Gypsy!! I would consider this one also (personally)!!! Although I can''t rid of the feeling of having an I color with blue fluor. yummy!!
 
Date: 6/14/2009 10:09:44 AM
Author: stuinkc
lol, dang it! i was in jared last week, it was the first store i actually set foot in to try and get a feel for what size and clarity looked like in person. i will head back in their on my next day off and get a good look at the peerless, which is their ideal cut tolkowsky diamond, for apperance and pricing. then i will pull up some diamonds i like at whiteflash and highperformance diamonds and get some feedback from everyone. im actually getting rather exciited because i''ve found diamonds at both sites in the 5000 price range in both the infinity category and the wf hearts and arrows that the gf i think would asbsolutely love.

on another note, one of the things the b&m stores preached was lifetime guarantees on their diamonds against chipping and problems etc, is this truly a concern that I should be worried about buying online and having a problem with the diamond at some point in time down the line?
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Like Lorelei had mention, you are better of with an insurance. FYI, Infinity pays for the first year insurance on your diamond.
 
Date: 6/14/2009 12:16:03 PM
Author: stuinkc
so, this is the one i''m focusing in on, its as far as my budget can go, any thoughts recommendations on something better for the money out there:

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=413
Click to expand...
36.gif
This one is going to be a beaut, IMO! Email Wink (one of the Infinity Diamond dealer). Wink is great to work with. Just ask him any questions, he is so patient. I work with Wink to get my Infinity diamond and the stone is TDF! The stone is all about sparks and brilliance even at the dimmest of light. I think you can find his email address in that website. Good luck!!!!
 
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