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A challenge for Trump supporters

J

jaaron

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
889
Open your ears and your minds and actually listen to this podcast. I am happy to do the same and listen to one on the other side if you can point me to one that's not done by a ranting Hannity wannabe.

Warning - the host isn't exciting to listen to, there's no shouting or fireworks and he thinks as he speaks, so it's a bit slow. He is not a Trump fan. The expert (Anne Applebaum) is a centre right pulitzer prize winning journalist, and her analysis on a potential Trump/Russia connection and why it matters is reasoned and non-hysterical and, frankly, I think everyone should listen to it.

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/the-russia-connection
 
Thanks for posting. I especially love listening to someone with a historian's take on what is going on. Off to listen.
Edited to say I thought your comment about the podcast not being "exciting" made me laugh because my DH and I watch the PBS news hour and always say that the majority of people want to be "entertained" by the news and watching the actual news isn't exactly entertaining, but more informative. Also I think our attention span is getting smaller and smaller. I remember hearing about the Microsoft study that says attention span is less than a goldfish.. I think it was something along the lines of eight seconds. Yikes.
 
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I'm listening as I prepare for the day. Hope a few others do too. I'll be back with thoughts.
 
siamese3 said:
Thanks for posting. I especially love listening to someone with a historian's take on what is going on. Off to listen.
Edited to say I thought your comment about the podcast not being "exciting" made me laugh because my DH and I watch the PBS news hour and always say that the majority of people want to be "entertained" by the news and watching the actual news isn't exactly entertaining, but more informative. Also I think our attention span is getting smaller and smaller. I remember hearing about the Microsoft study that says attention span is less than a goldfish.. I think it was something along the lines of eight seconds. Yikes.
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I haven't listened yet (but I will), however I wanted to say that I've read the attention span for technology usage is becoming particularly shorter and shorter. E.g., first we had dial up and things were sloooooow.... but you waited. And then we had slower connections.... but we waited.... And now we click on things and if they don't load INSTANTLY.... we move on to something else. And of course I'm being factious with "instantly" but it's something like X seconds. And not MANY X seconds either. Could be eight, but eight sounds like a lifetime when you're waiting for something to happen on your screen. I'll try to find the article.

ETA: I googled "attention span affected by technology" and a whole slew of things came up. The number I see over and over IS 8 seconds (not sure why I thought it was shorter). But doesn't 8 seconds seem like For.Ev.Er. if you're sitting there watching the hourglass spin? I does to me! Hmmm.... Maybe I should change my avatar to a goldfish!

Also ETA: I'm also willing to listen to a discussion of the other side. Didn't post that at first because I figured it went without saying, but I remind myself over and over that I shouldn't assume things. Not only doesn't the internet convey tone, it also doesn't make my fellow 'netters mind readers! But make sure the speaker is clipping along at a fast pace because one pause too long and I'll lose the train of thought. (Signed) The Goldfish :lol:
 
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Dee*Jay said:
I haven't listened yet (but I will), however I wanted to say that I've read the attention span for technology usage is becoming particularly shorter and shorter. E.g., first we had dial up and things were sloooooow.... but you waited. And then we had slower connections.... but we waited.... And now we click on things and if they don't load INSTANTLY.... we move on to something else. And of course I'm being factious with "instantly" but it's something like X seconds. And not MANY X seconds either. Could be eight, but eight sounds like a lifetime when you're waiting for something to happen on your screen. I'll try to find the article.

ETA: I googled "attention span affected by technology" and a whole slew of things came up. The number I see over and over IS 8 seconds (not sure why I thought it was shorter). But doesn't 8 seconds seem like For.Ev.Er. if you're sitting there watching the hourglass spin? I does to me! Hmmm.... Maybe I should change my avatar to a goldfish!

Also ETA: I'm also willing to listen to a discussion of the other side. Didn't post that at first because I figured it went without saying, but I remind myself over and over that I shouldn't assume things. Not only doesn't the internet convey tone, it also doesn't make my fellow 'netters mind readers! But make sure the speaker is clipping along at a fast pace because one pause too long and I'll lose the train of thought. (Signed) The Goldfish :lol:
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DeeJay, your posts always make me laugh, in a good way. I have always loved one of Louis C.K.'s bits about how impatient we are..the whole we can't stand waiting on a plane on the tarmac for a few hours when people used to die on the way to California, etc. very funny stuff about our first world problems.
 
I am trying hard to just LISTEN but some many great ideas and thoughts in the podcast, my brain pings around from one thing to the next and I'm afraid I will forget something I wanted to comment on. I have heard so many Trump supporters (interviews, etc) say that they have watched him on apprentice and he is such a great businessman who makes tough decisions, and in my head I think okay, that is a tv show meant to entertain you. Find out some actual real facts about the man. I personally knew we were in trouble (manners, decorum) when during one of the early republican candidate debates where Trump insulted Rosie O'Donnell (the Megyn Kelly question) and the audience laughed and clapped and cheered. Yikes. Podcast is a great convo (and I also am a huge fan of David Frum also) so thanks Jaron for the link. Not enough hours in the day. I wanna go back to knowing NOTHING about politics. I guess I have to say I love Trump because he got me to PAY ATTENTION!
 
siamese3 said:
I am trying hard to just LISTEN but some many great ideas and thoughts in the podcast, my brain pings around from one thing to the next and I'm afraid I will forget something I wanted to comment on. I have heard so many Trump supporters (interviews, etc) say that they have watched him on apprentice and he is such a great businessman who makes tough decisions, and in my head I think okay, that is a tv show meant to entertain you. Find out some actual real facts about the man. I personally knew we were in trouble (manners, decorum) when during one of the early republican candidate debates where Trump insulted Rosie O'Donnell (the Megyn Kelly question) and the audience laughed and clapped and cheered. Yikes. Podcast is a great convo (and I also am a huge fan of David Frum also) so thanks Jaron for the link. Not enough hours in the day. I wanna go back to knowing NOTHING about politics. I guess I have to say I love Trump because he got me to PAY ATTENTION!
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I say this understanding it's a complete simplification of the issues, but to me the entire campaign had this underlying tone of glee in finally being able to fight dirty. If you were a racist, xenophobic,homophobic bully with a chip on your shoulder, suddenly you were at the forefront of people's news feed. In some cases, you were chosen to consult the president. My feeds flooded (AFTER HE WAS ELECTED BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO CHICKENPOOP TO SAY IT BEFORE) with "This country will finally return to their values" blab bla bla. The propaganda machine did its job and the Trump voters ate it up and asked for seconds.
 
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Elliot86 said:
I say this understanding it's a complete simplification of the issues, but to me the entire campaign had this underlying tone of glee in finally being able to fight dirty. If you were a racist, xenophobic,homophobic bully with a chip on your shoulder, suddenly you were at the forefront of people's news feed. In some cases, you were elected to consult the president. My feeds flooded (AFTER HE WAS ELECTED BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO CHICKENPOOP TO SAY IT BEFORE) with "This country will finally return to their values" blab bla bla. The propaganda machine did its job and the Trump voters ate it up and asked for seconds.
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It is all such a conundrum to me in it that it is simple and complex all at the same time. Just like humans are simple and complex at the same time. I feel like in my over simplification of it, the underlying themes are anger and lack of control. IMHO, most people just naturally want an easy fix, a solution. I lost 70lbs over the last five years and people always ask me what my "secret" was. Ummmm, don't eat every delicious thing I want, exercise regularly and sit with my feelings, not "eat" them. I think it's nice to think that one person could change everything, but that is a fantasy. While one person certainly can make a difference, it takes years and a lifetime of hard work, perseverance and conviction. Something I firmly believe Trump lacks. The thing I have learned after this election is that a democratic republic is that it needs constant work and attention. I think it has been easy to not be involved, sit back and worry about my first world problems of what diamond or piece of jewelry I want next. Yikes.
Please excuse my random all-over-the-placeness. My brain goes every which way and that is often why I don't post. It drives my DH crazy. Also.. too much espresso this morning :)
 
I hope everyone who listened/is listening is finding it worthwhile.

I agree about the shrinking attention span. I see it in myself, actually. Although, I think the upside is that we're all able to do more things simultaneously? Maybe?

Elliot- I totally agree about the legitimising/unleashing of people's worst selves/beliefs.

Siamese- well, if he got you involved, the whole thing's worthwhile :D

Trump supporters: No one wanting to reach across the aisle? There's been a lot of complaint about the 'libs' being incapable of listening/compromising. I'm offering and Dee*Jay did too...
 
Jaaron, you jump to conclusions why no one is responding.

I just got home from work so have not had a chance to do so, yet.
 
I have to go to work now, but I did take some notes. Back later!
 
Today is my 26th anniversary and I have only gotten 45 mins through the podcast so please stop with the baiting jaaron. I will get to it in time and respond appropriately though I have made some notes already. Thank you for your patience. :wavey:
 
I apologise if it came across as baiting, Redwood- wasn't meant that way at all. And Ruby, I was not jumping to conclusions. Just pointing out that none of the people on the other side had responded yet. No value judgment inherent.

And, Redwood, I really did mean it that I will try to listen with an open mind if you want to recommend something in return.
Happy anniversary!
 
redwood66 said:
Today is my 26th anniversary and I have only gotten 45 mins through the podcast so please stop with the baiting jaaron. I will get to it in time and respond appropriately though I have made some notes already. Thank you for your patience. :wavey:
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Happy 26th anniversary, Redwood.
 
Thank you for the wishes jaaron and ruby.

Where to start. I have 3 pages of notes on this podcast. Ms. Applebaum is knowledgeable on Russian politics and I appreciate that. I do not agree with her statement that there is no evidence that revolutionary destruction ever worked in history. Maybe it did not for the Bolsheviks but it did work for Americans and their insistence on determining their own fate and establishing self governance. To apply the word revolution to the ideas of Steve Bannon is inappropriate even when he uses it himself. This country does not need another revolution but it does need less apathy in its people with regard to elected leaders, role and cost of government. True discussion between parties cannot be reduced to memes and tweets.

I cannot listen to Sam Harris' description of Trump without seeing a completely biased and uber left nitwit. He had many adjectives to describe Trump and his supporters that will only rile the opposition and develop an echo chamber for Mr. Harris' devotees. This does not help the divide that exists.

Since we do not have concrete evidence of collusion by Trump himself, the ties to Russia that Ms. Applebaum purports is speculation at this point. I do not like Paul Manafort and see him as a sleazy used car salesman that I would not trust to walk my dog. Is she trying to use her knowledge of Russian politics to establish that indeed Trump colluded with Russia and we should trust what she says? As far as the Russian's involvement in creating this divide in our political system with propaganda I am ambivalent. Neither Russia nor Trump carry the full responsibility for the political divide that exists. This has been happening for over a decade with the full access to internet, 9/11, GW's many issues, and identity politics plus apathy by Americans. These things, and probably more, have contributed to the adversarial positions. Plus people seem to revel in voicing their opinions and demonizing the opposition. I see it here on PS daily. The nasty seems to be the norm and that is sad but it is not because of Russian propaganda.

What did you want to get out of conservatives with this thread? Your opening line is condescending and suggests that my ears and mind are closed. That has never been the case. My ideology is conservative and my choice of politicians to support plus my location to live reflects that. I will not become a liberal or change my values because someone thinks I should. For better or worse Trump is our President at this point until he isn't either by failing reelection, impeachment, or death. Frankly the elected liberals screaming for impeachment with no evidence of anything that is an impeachable offense is tiresome and makes me see them as idiot partisans reveling in the division they have all created.
 
redwood66 said:
Thank you for the wishes jaaron and ruby.

Where to start. I have 3 pages of notes on this podcast. Ms. Applebaum is knowledgeable on Russian politics and I appreciate that. I do not agree with her statement that there is no evidence that revolutionary destruction ever worked in history. Maybe it did not for the Bolsheviks but it did work for Americans and their insistence on determining their own fate and establishing self governance. To apply the word revolution to the ideas of Steve Bannon is inappropriate even when he uses it himself. This country does not need another revolution but it does need less apathy in its people with regard to elected leaders, role and cost of government. True discussion between parties cannot be reduced to memes and tweets.

I cannot listen to Sam Harris' description of Trump without seeing a completely biased and uber left nitwit. He had many adjectives to describe Trump and his supporters that will only rile the opposition and develop an echo chamber for Mr. Harris' devotees. This does not help the divide that exists.

Since we do not have concrete evidence of collusion by Trump himself, the ties to Russia that Ms. Applebaum purports is speculation at this point. I do not like Paul Manafort and see him as a sleazy used car salesman that I would not trust to walk my dog. Is she trying to use her knowledge of Russian politics to establish that indeed Trump colluded with Russia and we should trust what she says? As far as the Russian's involvement in creating this divide in our political system with propaganda I am ambivalent. Neither Russia nor Trump carry the full responsibility for the political divide that exists. This has been happening for over a decade with the full access to internet, 9/11, GW's many issues, and identity politics plus apathy by Americans. These things, and probably more, have contributed to the adversarial positions. Plus people seem to revel in voicing their opinions and demonizing the opposition. I see it here on PS daily. The nasty seems to be the norm and that is sad but it is not because of Russian propaganda.

What did you want to get out of conservatives with this thread? Your opening line is condescending and suggests that my ears and mind are closed. That has never been the case. My ideology is conservative and my choice of politicians to support plus my location to live reflects that. I will not become a liberal or change my values because someone thinks I should. For better or worse Trump is our President at this point until he isn't either by failing reelection, impeachment, or death. Frankly the elected liberals screaming for impeachment with no evidence of anything that is an impeachable offense is tiresome and makes me see them as idiot partisans reveling in the division they have all created.
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I do not believe this, the Russians interfering in the American election process by hacking into the democratic national headquarters, shifting the info (and we don't know if it was edited btw) to WikiLeaks and leaking the information to degrade Mrs Clinton and the democrats goes a long way in the adversarial positions in America today. Why were the Democrats hacked and not the republicans? (although I have read that the republicans were also and nothing was leaked). I say wholeheartedly that we would not be in this predicament if it weren't for the Russians hacking Podesta the DNC and having Wikileaks releasing the information.

I am a democrat, I am not sure I would label myself as liberal. I think we throw around these terms too much.
 
Kate hacking was not discussed in the podcast. My comments are addressing what was said in the podcast.
 
Happy anniversary, Red.
 
Just posting to say we are not allowed to say "idiot" anymore, Red. It has been brought to our attention that the terms "moron," "imbecile," and "idiot" are cruel. Thank you.
Obama-lol.gif
 
monarch64 said:
Just posting to say we are not allowed to say "idiot" anymore, Red. It has been brought to our attention that the terms "moron," "imbecile," and "idiot" are cruel. Thank you.
Obama-lol.gif
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I'll see your idiot and raise you a pussy.
 
monarch64 said:
Just posting to say we are not allowed to say "idiot" anymore, Red. It has been brought to our attention that the terms "moron," "imbecile," and "idiot" are cruel. Thank you.
Obama-lol.gif
Click to expand...

I missed that missive from Ella and Andrey. I speak sooth and call it as I see it dahling.
 
redwood66 said:
I missed that missive from Ella and Andrey. I speak sooth and call it as I see it dahling.
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Oh, it wasn't from Andrey or Ella. :lol: And you can say whatever you want. I was just funnin'!
 
Happy anniversary Red! Wishing you and the hubs many many more!!!
 
Dee*Jay said:
Happy anniversary Red! Wishing you and the hubs many many more!!!
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Yes, happy anniversary Red. And Dee*Jay, you SLAY me! Lol at your new signature.
 
[QUOTE="monarch64, post: 4146467, member: 15196"]Just posting to say we are not allowed to say "idiot" anymore, Red. It has been brought to our attention that the terms "moron," "imbecile," and "idiot" are cruel. Thank you.
Obama-lol.gif
[/QUOTE]


But as do gooder progressive liberal didn't you already get that memo?
 
Using terms like ‘moron’ as an epithet only exacerbates the assumption that being intellectually disabled is shameful or dangerous. Expressing disgust or displeasure with President Trump’s policies by labelling him ‘idiotic’ will simply bounce off a man who trades in insults, and will do worse than nothing: it will oppress vulnerable people.

http://www.thevocal.com.au/call-trump-instead-moronic-mistake-keep-making/
 
ruby59 said:
[QUOTE="monarch64, post: 4146467, member: 15196"]Just posting to say we are not allowed to say "idiot" anymore, Red. It has been brought to our attention that the terms "moron," "imbecile," and "idiot" are cruel. Thank you.
Obama-lol.gif
Click to expand...


But as do gooder progressive liberal didn't you already get that memo?[/QUOTE]

No! I literally didn't get it until today when you brought it up! I had to google "moron" and was fascinated at my findings. I'm not big on name-calling in the first place, honestly. I prefer more subtle snark/smartassery, which I'm sure you'll agree are two trademarks of do-gooder, progressive liberals. ;)
 
ruby59 said:
Using terms like ‘moron’ as an epithet only exacerbates the assumption that being intellectually disabled is shameful or dangerous. Expressing disgust or displeasure with President Trump’s policies by labelling him ‘idiotic’ will simply bounce off a man who trades in insults, and will do worse than nothing: it will oppress vulnerable people.

http://www.thevocal.com.au/call-trump-instead-moronic-mistake-keep-making/
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Sorry ruby, that crap is just silly. I am using the term idiot in the modern usage that falls under the first list in this definition. Everyone understands this and knows what I mean. I won't change. :wavey:

id·i·ot
ˈidēət/
noun
informal
  1. a stupid person.
    synonyms: fool, ass, halfwit, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, cretin, moron, imbecile, simpleton; More
    • MEDICINEarchaic
      a mentally handicapped person.
 
redwood66 said:
Today is my 26th anniversary and I have only gotten 45 mins through the podcast so please stop with the baiting jaaron. I will get to it in time and respond appropriately though I have made some notes already. Thank you for your patience. :wavey:
Click to expand...
Happy anniversary Red!
 
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