A big surprise at Tiffany''s

[rockabee]

So I went to Tiffany''s flagship store in NYC a number of times. There was a person in the elevator to take you to your floor (even though its a normal button elevator rather than a manual one from the early 1900s). When you get to the engagement floor, they offer you complementary champagne or bottled water. And the SAs there are nothing if not professional and courteous. When asked about the quality of their stones, they assured me that it is held to a "higher standard" than that of either GIA or AGS. It really is a different type of engagement ring shopping experience.

However, that''s where the clock struck 12 and my coach turned into a pumpkin. When I asked for the cert for a few diamonds, I learned that they do not submit their diamonds to an outside independent firm like GIA/AGS but do it in-house. Call me skeptical, but isn''t that a bit of a conflict of interest? The guy who is selling me the stone is also rating them? Ok, but it''s Tiffany so I can trust them to sell only the best quality.

So then I get the certs and to my surprise, none of them have any inclusion plots! So I just have to take their word that it is a VS2 or VVS1 or whatever! Not to say I don''t trust them, but at the same time we all know that there are VS2s (eh...) and then there are VS2s (wow!). Of course, outside of a color lamp and a loop, they don''t provide any other evaluation tools (e.g., ideal scope, magnified image, etc). But not a big deal since many places don''t do this.

Now for the big surprise. I took the diamond specs and ran two of them through HCA. Their scores came back 4.2 and 4.5!! Here are the specs for a RB that I kept the cert for:
Depth: 62.6%
Table: 57
Crown Ang: 35.3%
Pav Ang: 41.2%

I am not making this up. I was shocked. If I''m going to pay a 70-100% premium for a Tiffany ring, I understand that I''m paying for the brand. But at least I thought I would be getting an amazing stone! To me, these things were lemons. I am not trying to malign Tiffany and to be fair, I only ran the HCA on two of the stones. But still, huge price premium, stones are rated by the seller using standards seller claims to be strict, no inclusion plots, and poor performing stones. Am I missing something?

 

[stone-cold11]

I think they typically have steeper pavilion, and compensate it with a longer lower half. Those can still perform well but will need to be look at with an IS.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/8/2009 9:36:19 AM
Author:rockabee
So I went to Tiffany's flagship store in NYC a number of times. There was a person in the elevator to take you to your floor (even though its a normal button elevator rather than a manual one from the early 1900s). When you get to the engagement floor, they offer you complementary champagne or bottled water. And the SAs there are nothing if not professional and courteous. When asked about the quality of their stones, they assured me that it is held to a 'higher standard' than that of either GIA or AGS. It really is a different type of engagement ring shopping experience.

However, that's where the clock struck 12 and my coach turned into a pumpkin. When I asked for the cert for a few diamonds, I learned that they do not submit their diamonds to an outside independent firm like GIA/AGS but do it in-house. Call me skeptical, but isn't that a bit of a conflict of interest? The guy who is selling me the stone is also rating them? Ok, but it's Tiffany so I can trust them to sell only the best quality.

So then I get the certs and to my surprise, none of them have any inclusion plots! So I just have to take their word that it is a VS2 or VVS1 or whatever! Not to say I don't trust them, but at the same time we all know that there are VS2s (eh...) and then there are VS2s (wow!). Of course, outside of a color lamp and a loop, they don't provide any other evaluation tools (e.g., ideal scope, magnified image, etc). But not a big deal since many places don't do this.

Now for the big surprise. I took the diamond specs and ran two of them through HCA. Their scores came back 4.2 and 4.5!! Here are the specs for a RB that I kept the cert for:
Depth: 62.6%
Table: 57
Crown Ang: 35.3%
Pav Ang: 41.2%

I am not making this up. I was shocked. If I'm going to pay a 70-100% premium for a Tiffany ring, I understand that I'm paying for the brand. But at least I thought I would be getting an amazing stone! To me, these things were lemons. I am not trying to malign Tiffany and to be fair, I only ran the HCA on two of the stones. But still, huge price premium, stones are rated by the seller using standards seller claims to be strict, no inclusion plots, and poor performing stones. Am I missing something?

These are steep deep angled diamonds and light leakage is a real possibility. The diamond above is also a bit deep. Sometimes longer lower girdle facets can help these diamonds but not in every case, images are therefore essential but personally I wouldn't take the risk and look for a diamond with safer angle ranges and less depth.

 

[T L]

They need to make money to pay their huge advertising costs somehow. It''s not everyday that you get a movie named after you either. I wonder if their diamonds come from another planet owned by Tiffany since it''s a Tiffany branded diamond. I mean their diamonds are Tiffany diamonds, and well, everyone else gets theirs from somewhere else?????

 

[neatfreak]

With Tiff's some of the diamonds are beautifully cut and some are steep/deep as the others have said. BUT their diamonds are much higher quality than the average store-just not the average PS vendor.

If you are intent on buying there it will be worth your time to weed through some stones and their numbers to find the best one. Because some are better cut than others.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

I found that amazing too the last time I was there that they only offered their own grading. They have some beautiful stones, but I feel a little unsafe with them only doing in house grading....

--Joshua

 

[Bosie]

Rockabee

As you use this site, people seemed to be sold on the "H&A" concept, Idealscopes, HCA numbers, etc. Many of these ideas are not shared outside of this community. When you go to some B&M stores, and ask for the "H&A", and the other above concepts, they can look at you like you are far Mars. These are not industry wide concepts or norms, but ideas from this kind of a forum. Tiffany advertises in their booklets and through their sales people that their stones are of top quality and that their rejection rate is higher than most. I have been to Tiff many times, their stones (in my eyes) are beautiful, and sparkle like crazy. It is up to each of us to either spend the money at Tiffany, or subscribe to the values and thoughts on this and other forums and buy form an online vendor who is using the specs and measurement tools that you feel comfortable with. Does this mean you are saving money? All depends on how you value and rate the diamond. Best of luck in your search and keep us posted.

 

[ACN]

Date: 11/8/2009 12:22:05 PM
Author: Bosie
Rockabee


As you use this site, people seemed to be sold on the ''H&A'' concept, Idealscopes, HCA numbers, etc. Many of these ideas are not shared outside of this community. When you go to some B&M stores, and ask for the ''H&A'', and the other above concepts, they can look at you like you are far Mars. These are not industry wide concepts or norms, but ideas from this kind of a forum. Tiffany advertises in their booklets and through their sales people that their stones are of top quality and that their rejection rate is higher than most. I have been to Tiff many times, their stones (in my eyes) are beautiful, and sparkle like crazy. It is up to each of us to either spend the money at Tiffany, or subscribe to the values and thoughts on this and other forums and buy form an online vendor who is using the specs and measurement tools that you feel comfortable with. Does this mean you are saving money? All depends on how you value and rate the diamond. Best of luck in your search and keep us posted.

What stone won''t sparkle when you have 100000000 watts of lights hitting it. The best way to know if it sparkles and how it performs would be to take it outside; at some local B&M places, they allow you to do this...at Tiffany''s...good luck.

 

[clgwli]

Wow that is awesome service at your Tiffany''s. Our local one isn''t near as nice. In fact I had to have someone flag down another person to help me look at some diamonds. I was very unimpressed with her level of knowledge to the point where I am considering writing about it so that no one else receives the same level of service I did (or in my case did not).

I realize the clients at Tiffany are usually a different caliber than regular B&M stores, but I felt no better asking questions there and finding out what I do like in a stone than I did at Zales. I felt like I was brushed off just as much.

I will use Tiffany for some items but definitely after the lack of knowledge the lady helping me seemed to have had in addition to inflated prices, I doubt I will buy anything of real value there.

 

[Hest88]

It used to be that Tiffany stones could get outside certification if they were over 1ct. Is that no longer the case? They use their own grading no matter how large the stone?

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 11/8/2009 12:22:05 PM
Author: Bosie
Rockabee


As you use this site, people seemed to be sold on the ''H&A'' concept, Idealscopes, HCA numbers, etc. Many of these ideas are not shared outside of this community. When you go to some B&M stores, and ask for the ''H&A'', and the other above concepts, they can look at you like you are far Mars. These are not industry wide concepts or norms, but ideas from this kind of a forum. Tiffany advertises in their booklets and through their sales people that their stones are of top quality and that their rejection rate is higher than most. I have been to Tiff many times, their stones (in my eyes) are beautiful, and sparkle like crazy. It is up to each of us to either spend the money at Tiffany, or subscribe to the values and thoughts on this and other forums and buy form an online vendor who is using the specs and measurement tools that you feel comfortable with. Does this mean you are saving money? All depends on how you value and rate the diamond. Best of luck in your search and keep us posted.

While HCA''s might not be well known in B&M shops, I would be wary of a B&M that doesn''t know H&A diamonds. They are quite popular with the upper-cut set of diamond connoisseurs and even some chains have some (albeit not the best cut).

--Joshua

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 11/8/2009 1:19:01 PM
Author: Hest88
It used to be that Tiffany stones could get outside certification if they were over 1ct. Is that no longer the case? They use their own grading no matter how large the stone?

I think that is after the Certifigate incident of GIA that Tiffany decides to distances itself with GIA. Might be wrong.

 

[rockabee]

I understand that HCA is a simple tool, primarily to be used as a first cut rejection screener. And since there is no way that I know of to run IS/ASET on Tiffany stones, it is ultimately not possible to see how well those two stones will perform. I agree with Bosie that many people out there just don''t care about all the minutia that we can get caught up in here on this website. And there isn''t a site or vendor out there that won''t have stones that score poorly on HCA and that also score poorly in real world visual settings. Still, I guess I had lofty expectations since there is such a large price premium that Tiffany charges, and that that premium was in part justified by higher quality.

I think in response to the economy, Tiffany''s also has started to carry SI quality stones for the first time in their engagement rings. Between that and buying stakes directly in diamond mines, it makes sense that they may have a wider variance of stone quality than they did in the past. At any rate, my only point is that if I bought from Tiffany, I would just do the extra legwork to make sure that what I''m buying is quality and not just assume it.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

This is why I love PS--it allows all consumers to educate themselves so they know EXACTLY what they are buying with their hard-earned money. I''ve always felt that Tiffany''s (or other high-end B&Ms) were the perfect solution for men who didn''t know anything about diamonds and were willing to pay a premium in order to get something they knew was high quality without having to get into the nitty gritty details. Unfortunately it seems that while the average Tiffany stone is nicer than many other B&Ms, there are many "duds" by PSers standards.

 

[swl]

Date: 11/8/2009 12:22:05 PM
Author: Bosie
Rockabee


As you use this site, people seemed to be sold on the 'H&A' concept, Idealscopes, HCA numbers, etc. Many of these ideas are not shared outside of this community. When you go to some B&M stores, and ask for the 'H&A', and the other above concepts, they can look at you like you are far Mars. These are not industry wide concepts or norms, but ideas from this kind of a forum. Tiffany advertises in their booklets and through their sales people that their stones are of top quality and that their rejection rate is higher than most. I have been to Tiff many times, their stones (in my eyes) are beautiful, and sparkle like crazy. It is up to each of us to either spend the money at Tiffany, or subscribe to the values and thoughts on this and other forums and buy form an online vendor who is using the specs and measurement tools that you feel comfortable with. Does this mean you are saving money? All depends on how you value and rate the diamond. Best of luck in your search and keep us posted.

I agree with Bosie. If you think the stone is beautiful, then it is beautiful. As long as you are happy with it, the measurements don't really matter

 

[yssie]

What was this Tiffany/GIA certifigate issue? I did a couple of searches but I''m not sure what I''m searching for?

 

[stitch]

Last time, I went to a B&M store to look at a diamond and I see a customer with tiffany ring. They try to sell the ring for another diamond. The store owner refuse to take the stone because it has lower quality then their standard although the ring sparkle like crazy.

 

[T L]

Date: 11/8/2009 2:58:20 PM
Author: swl

Date: 11/8/2009 12:22:05 PM
Author: Bosie
Rockabee


As you use this site, people seemed to be sold on the 'H&A' concept, Idealscopes, HCA numbers, etc. Many of these ideas are not shared outside of this community. When you go to some B&M stores, and ask for the 'H&A', and the other above concepts, they can look at you like you are far Mars. These are not industry wide concepts or norms, but ideas from this kind of a forum. Tiffany advertises in their booklets and through their sales people that their stones are of top quality and that their rejection rate is higher than most. I have been to Tiff many times, their stones (in my eyes) are beautiful, and sparkle like crazy. It is up to each of us to either spend the money at Tiffany, or subscribe to the values and thoughts on this and other forums and buy form an online vendor who is using the specs and measurement tools that you feel comfortable with. Does this mean you are saving money? All depends on how you value and rate the diamond. Best of luck in your search and keep us posted.

I agree with Bosie. If you think the stone is beautiful, then it is beautiful. As long as you are happy with it, the measurements don't really matter

For the premium that Tiffany charges, I think it's more than just beauty we need to be concerned with. This is a consumer forum, and I would hope people would want the best value for their money, but sometimes names/brands are more important to some people, and that's fine if you can afford it. I think Tiffany is definitely about that more than top notch quality.

 

[rockabee]

Hester,
I''m not sure whether or not Tiffany will allow outside grading of their stones over 1ct. I guess anything could be negotiated if it came down to it. I mean, if you were buying a 3ct+ stone for $150k, I''m sure they would be amenable to doing something that would facilitate the purchase. Not sure what the cutoff is though. But I think GIA takes a few weeks to come back and for that time, the stone would be off the market. And then there is also the cost of doing it as well.

Anyways, I would be interested if anyone who bought there was able to get an outside cert before they purchased.

By the way, I''m new to this site. How do you reply to a single message and have that message show up within my reply??

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 11/9/2009 9:05:40 AM
Author: rockabee
Hester,
I''m not sure whether or not Tiffany will allow outside grading of their stones over 1ct. I guess anything could be negotiated if it came down to it. I mean, if you were buying a 3ct+ stone for $150k, I''m sure they would be amenable to doing something that would facilitate the purchase. Not sure what the cutoff is though. But I think GIA takes a few weeks to come back and for that time, the stone would be off the market. And then there is also the cost of doing it as well.

Anyways, I would be interested if anyone who bought there was able to get an outside cert before they purchased.

By the way, I''m new to this site. How do you reply to a single message and have that message show up within my reply??

Click REPLY in the post you want to quote. Then when the REPLY window opens up, click QUOTE.

 

[kenny]

duplicate post.

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/8/2009 2:58:20 PM
Author: swl

Date: 11/8/2009 12:22:05 PM

Author: Bosie

Rockabee



As you use this site, people seemed to be sold on the 'H&A' concept, Idealscopes, HCA numbers, etc. Many of these ideas are not shared outside of this community. When you go to some B&M stores, and ask for the 'H&A', and the other above concepts, they can look at you like you are far Mars. These are not industry wide concepts or norms, but ideas from this kind of a forum. Tiffany advertises in their booklets and through their sales people that their stones are of top quality and that their rejection rate is higher than most. I have been to Tiff many times, their stones (in my eyes) are beautiful, and sparkle like crazy. It is up to each of us to either spend the money at Tiffany, or subscribe to the values and thoughts on this and other forums and buy form an online vendor who is using the specs and measurement tools that you feel comfortable with. Does this mean you are saving money? All depends on how you value and rate the diamond. Best of luck in your search and keep us posted.

I agree with Bosie. If you think the stone is beautiful, then it is beautiful. As long as you are happy with it, the measurements don't really matter

. . . perhaps when you don't know any better, or have seen any better . . . yes that's true.
As they say, ignorance is bliss.

But that's not the mission here at PS.

 

[Hest88]

Date: 11/9/2009 8:04:02 PM
Author: kenny

. . . perhaps when you don''t know any better, or have seen any better . . . yes that''s true.
As they say, ignorance is bliss.

But that''s not the mission here at PS.

Ditto. The problem is, most consumers don''t know much about diamonds aren''t deeply exposed to diamonds. Thus, it''s easy to be dazzled by any old stone, especially in store lighting, and especially if it carries emotional weight. It''s like someone who''s never seen a flower before seeing a daisy for the first time. Sure, it''s gorgeous until you see a rose...and an orchid...and a peony...and...

 

[rockabee]

Date: 11/9/2009 7:36:46 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 11/9/2009 9:05:40 AM
Author: rockabee
Hester,
I''m not sure whether or not Tiffany will allow outside grading of their stones over 1ct. I guess anything could be negotiated if it came down to it. I mean, if you were buying a 3ct+ stone for $150k, I''m sure they would be amenable to doing something that would facilitate the purchase. Not sure what the cutoff is though. But I think GIA takes a few weeks to come back and for that time, the stone would be off the market. And then there is also the cost of doing it as well.

Anyways, I would be interested if anyone who bought there was able to get an outside cert before they purchased.

By the way, I''m new to this site. How do you reply to a single message and have that message show up within my reply??

Click REPLY in the post you want to quote. Then when the REPLY window opens up, click QUOTE.

thanks lynn!

 

[alexandros]

So why do Tiffany diamonds sparkle so much...more than the average PS diamond I think??

 

[yssie]

and... here we go again

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 11/9/2009 10:45:11 PM
Author: alexandros
So why do Tiffany diamonds sparkle so much...more than the average PS diamond I think??

Uh. Do you have actual grounds for making that statement? Because you are asking for some serious rebuttal with a statement/question like that.

Have fun!

 

[alexandros]

Well, seems like I hit a nerve....a rather raw, sensitive one. Not sure why. I keep reading on this forum how Tiffany diamonds sparkle so much, yet they are inferior (on paper) to their PS equivalents. Allow me to be more specific...do Tiffany cut their diamonds in a specific/special way?

Inform me....

 

[Bosie]

Date: 11/9/2009 11:38:59 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 11/9/2009 11:26:35 PM
Author: alexandros
Well, seems like I hit a nerve....a rather raw, sensitive one. Not sure why. I keep reading on this forum how Tiffany diamonds sparkle so much, yet they are inferior (on paper) to their PS equivalents. Allow me to be more specific...do Tiffany cut their diamonds in a specific/special way?

Inform me....

I have seen NON Tiffany diamonds that are far more stunning than those in their store. Tiffany does have beautiful diamonds, however they don''t necessarily outshine those from the vendors here.

Given the amount of people who have incredible diamonds here that were not purchased at Tiffany''s inflated prices but through the amazing vendors within, perhaps you should be wary of comments to which you have little credibility. Look at the amazing pieces among those in the SMTR thread and then ask questions to those who own them.

I have seen more beautiful diamonds put out by Whiteflash, Leon, Brian Gavin, James Allen, GOG, Wink and about a dozen other vendors here than that at Tiffany. Why don''t you ask those vendors about cut and quality?

Well, I guess Tiffany will be going out of business tomorrow.

 

[hihowareyou]

Date: 11/9/2009 10:45:11 PM
Author: alexandros
So why do Tiffany diamonds sparkle so much...more than the average PS diamond I think??

I don''t think anyone is claiming that Tiffany diamonds sparkle more than ''the average PS diamond''. Instead what most people here are saying is that a Tiffany diamond will sparkle and look beautiful and it is a safer bet than buying at the majority of B&M stores.

Does this mean that Tiffany diamonds are the most beautiful diamonds that you can buy? To some consumers, perhaps. To all consumers? No. Beauty is subjective in many ways and faced with a choice between the same two diamonds not everyone will pick the same one.

Pricescope is an amazing resource if you are willing to take the time to learn from it. If you want a wonderful stone without the brand/price tag of a high end store such as Tiffany then the members here will be able to find you something equally or more beautiful at a much better price. Not everyone has that time though and for those who do not, who want the brand association or don''t mind spending the extra $$ then Tiffany is one of the better options.

Personally I won''t buy a diamond from Tiffany knowing that I can get the same or better quality in cut, in a larger size, with better colour/clarity from a PS vendor for less money. When I''ve been into Tiffanys I''ve never been overly impressed (I have no interest in round brilliants though and their fancy shapes have nothing on an August Cushion

)