WF ACA vs CBI Pricing

[kmajid]

Happy Friday!

Hope everyone's been having a fantastic week.

So, i've gone down a hole looking at and considering super ideal diamonds and noticed that on average CBI diamonds are 8-13% more expensive than ACA. Is that price difference warranted or would you guys simply go with the cheaper option if size, color, and clarity are equal.

The differences in buyback policy would not be a factor for me.

Curious to get everyone's thoughts : ) Thanks in advance.

 

[TODiamonds]

Get the cheaper option (assuming all else equal). You are just paying more for the brand.

 

[Wewechew]

I have had both ACAs and CBIs. I prefer HPD because of their trade in and by back policy. You can't go wrong with either vendor.

 

[marcy]

Either one will be gorgeous. Get the cheapest one for the C’s you want. Both have great upgrade policies and customer service.

 

[marcy]

Another consideration is which one of them has the setting you Prefer?

 

[mrs-b]

One more vote for going with the cheapest. I have a bunch of ACAs and they're stunning.

 

[kmajid]

I have had both ACAs and CBIs. I prefer HPD because of their trade in and by back policy. You can't go wrong with either vendor.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Isn't the trade in policy the same?

 

[kmajid]

Another consideration is which one of them has the setting you Prefer?

Thanks for your feedback. Going with a tiffany style setting, so i think both have good options.

 

[Wewechew]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Isn't the trade in policy the same?

With HPD you can trade in one diamond for two diamonds, and two diamonds for one, etc. WF only allows you to trade in one for one.

 

[kmajid]

With HPD you can trade in one diamond for two diamonds, and two diamonds for one, etc. WF only allows you to trade in one for one.

Ah ok! Thanks for clarifying.

 

[sledge]

With HPD you can trade in one diamond for two diamonds, and two diamonds for one, etc. WF only allows you to trade in one for one.

Great points!

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/

You may trade your qualifying Whiteflash diamond at any time for any other single in-house diamond of equal or greater value. Credit will be given for full purchase price, less original shipping, for any qualifying trade up.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/whyus/whyus-upgrades

What does unrestricted mean?

• When we say unrestricted, we mean unrestricted. There is no minimum. Trading up a few dollars is permitted.
• When we say unrestricted, we mean unrestricted. We have had clients trade up one diamond for two or more smaller diamonds.
• When we say unrestricted, we mean unrestricted. We have had clients trade from a larger diamond to a smaller diamond of higher color or clarity that was more expensive than the larger diamond.

With no price premium, it's a no-brainer. But with an 8-13% price premium, I think the buyer needs to evaluate if those extras are specifically worthwhile to them or not. While it may be nice to trade up, down or sideways I think most people will be trading up so it's probably a non-factor to the bulk of buyers.

What intrigues me the most though is their 80% buyback policy.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/whyus/whyus-lifetime

You may return your undamaged Crafted by Infinity diamond and accompanying AGS report purchased from High Performance Diamonds to us for buyback for any reason, for life. Upon verification of its original undamaged condition, locally and from the AGS, we will gladly repurchase it for 80% of what you originally paid.

Under normal market conditions and probably the vast majority of personal situations, it's probably a non-issue for HPD. But if market conditions were to turn sour and large numbers of people took advantage of the policy, they could be in for a heap of problems.

Of course, maybe they have an investment strategy to offset/cap potential losses from such an event.

https://www.wyattresearch.com/article/protect-profits-limit-losses-favorite-options-strategy/

 

[Wewechew]

What intrigues me the most though is their 80% buyback policy.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/whyus/whyus-lifetime



Under normal market conditions and probably the vast majority of personal situations, it's probably a non-issue for HPD. But if market conditions were to turn sour and large numbers of people took advantage of the policy, they could be in for a heap of problems.

Of course, maybe they have an investment strategy to offset/cap potential losses from such an event.

https://www.wyattresearch.com/article/protect-profits-limit-losses-favorite-options-strategy/

This interests me too, from a business standpoint.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Another vote for “go with which one has what you want in your budget”. Both WF & CBI diamonds perform amazingly, and I don’t think you’d be disappointed with either option. That said, if you are stuck between one from each brand, the ability to see both in person at the same time is invaluable, as then your eyes will tell you whether any price differential is worth it to you.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

I would highly recommend you compare the diamonds in person. I did, and the CBIs were much more consistent in their excellence. The WF diamonds were, to my eyes, more variable. I think if you look at the stats for each of their diamonds (ratios, etc.) you will find the numbers bear this out.

I looked at both and the CBI's had a small (but to me) significant edge.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

Get the cheaper option (assuming all else equal). You are just paying more for the brand.

NEVER listen to someone who just got here 5 minutes ago and doesn't know what they're talking about. If you were to go "cheaper", you would go to a mall store. In this case, you're comparing two super ideal vendors. One cuts their own stones in house, and the other buys stones that fall within a stringent parameter. You can't go wrong with either one. You think you'll never need the added insurance of a buy back policy, but life changes, sometimes in an instant...

 

[kmajid]

Another vote for “go with which one has what you want in your budget”. Both WF & CBI diamonds perform amazingly, and I don’t think you’d be disappointed with either option. That said, if you are stuck between one from each brand, the ability to see both in person at the same time is invaluable, as then your eyes will tell you whether any price differential is worth it to you.

That makes perfect sense. I'm hoping to see some CBI stones soon and may have a stone with great proportions from blue nile to compare them all side by side. Hopefully it'll be clear which to go with. Depending on what i decide to go with I can try to see some WF in person too. Thanks so much for your feedback.

 

[kmajid]

I would highly recommend you compare the diamonds in person. I did, and the CBIs were much more consistent in their excellence. The WF diamonds were, to my eyes, more variable. I think if you look at the stats for each of their diamonds (ratios, etc.) you will find the numbers bear this out.

I looked at both and the CBI's had a small (but to me) significant edge.

I'll definitely try to make that happen. I appreciate your input and thanks for sharing your personal experience.

 

[kmajid]

NEVER listen to someone who just got here 5 minutes ago and doesn't know what they're talking about. If you were to go "cheaper", you would go to a mall store. In this case, you're comparing two super ideal vendors. One cuts their own stones in house, and the other buys stones that fall within a stringent parameter. You can't go wrong with either one. You think you'll never need the added insurance of a buy back policy, but life changes, sometimes in an instant...

Thanks for your input. Part of me does like the idea that CBI cuts their own stones in house, there's something to do that. I'm totally with you about life changing in an instant, so i appreciate the reminder. Maybe it's something i really should consider.

 

[TODiamonds]

NEVER listen to someone who just got here 5 minutes ago and doesn't know what they're talking about. If you were to go "cheaper", you would go to a mall store. In this case, you're comparing two super ideal vendors. One cuts their own stones in house, and the other buys stones that fall within a stringent parameter. You can't go wrong with either one. You think you'll never need the added insurance of a buy back policy, but life changes, sometimes in an instant...

Well I suppose based on your logic all members who only registered "5 minutes ago" should be ignored in this community. Very welcoming - great way to grow the community here. I've actually been lurking here for 5+ years and only recently decided to make an account, but if that's how you make decisions about people in life then I feel sorry for you.

I don't know why you're even bringing up the mall argument... nobody said anything about a mall - the "cheaper" comment is between two high end super-ideal vendors with fantastic track records. As you said yourself "you can't go wrong with either one" so why pay a 10%+ premium?

OP already said buyback policy doesn't matter so I didn't factor that. I've bought and sold businesses long enough to know how much these policies are worth... as already alluded to above, just wait till there's a shock to diamond prices and consumers make a run on the buyback or the founders of the business decide to sell or retire - that's when you'll see what these "lifelong policies" are really worth.

 

[the_mother_thing]

OP already said buyback policy doesn't matter so I didn't factor that. I've bought and sold businesses long enough to know how much these policies are worth... as already alluded to above, just wait till there's a shock to diamond prices and consumers make a run on the buyback or the founders of the business decide to sell or retire - that's when you'll see what these "lifelong policies" are really worth.

Have you ever inquired with Whiteflash or HPD about this yourself, as a buyer or just for the heck of it so that you’d know what you’re talking about before posting about it?

Since the OP noted he/she is considering a CBI, and I recently also considered a CBI diamond, I will share that this was a significant consideration in my overall decision; as such, before I agreed/purchased the diamond to bring it in/see it in person, I asked about this very scenario. I won’t detail what was provided to me in response; however, suffice it say, I felt very confident in the response I received that HPD has appropriate plans in place to meet their commitment to customers in this regard, should HPD’s owner ever decide to retire/sell/etc. to the point I was comfortable proceeding with bringing the diamond in for consideration.

Granted, not all businesses are as forward-thinking in their long-term plans for ensuring their policies outlast their business (Enchanted Diamonds comes to mind); however, before you suggest that a business might try to scam buyers with a bogus ‘policy’, maybe you should do a little research yourself about the companies being considered in this thread topic and/or clarify your statements so you don’t spread bad/false information about that company and potentially damage their reputation ... especially one that is highly regarded on this forum and specifically being considered in this thread.

 

[lovedogs]

Well I suppose based on your logic all members who only registered "5 minutes ago" should be ignored in this community. Very welcoming - great way to grow the community here. I've actually been lurking here for 5+ years and only recently decided to make an account, but if that's how you make decisions about people in life then I feel sorry for you.

I don't know why you're even bringing up the mall argument... nobody said anything about a mall - the "cheaper" comment is between two high end super-ideal vendors with fantastic track records. As you said yourself "you can't go wrong with either one" so why pay a 10%+ premium?

OP already said buyback policy doesn't matter so I didn't factor that. I've bought and sold businesses long enough to know how much these policies are worth... as already alluded to above, just wait till there's a shock to diamond prices and consumers make a run on the buyback or the founders of the business decide to sell or retire - that's when you'll see what these "lifelong policies" are really worth.

This is a very ignorant statement and I'm guessing you've never spoken with HPD about this. Please don't spread false information without doing some research on the topic first.

 

[TODiamonds]

This is a very ignorant statement and I'm guessing you've never spoken with HPD about this. Please don't spread false information without doing some research on the topic first.

I don't need to speak to HPD about how bankruptcy law works or what happens in the event of a change of control of a business. What would you expect a company rep to say anyway?

Nor am I suggesting any of these companies would intentionally "scam" anybody. My statement was more a general statement about how the law works.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I don't need to speak to HPD about how bankruptcy law works or what happens in the event of a change of control of a business. What would you expect a company rep to say anyway?

Nor am I suggesting any of these companies would intentionally "scam" anybody. My statement was more a general statement about how the law works.

If you don’t know the inner workings or plans ANY specific company has in place in the event of a myriad of situations, and can’t be bothered with actually asking them, what exactly qualifies you to speak about them at all intelligently? If you don’t know what legal documents/agreements/partnerships a company has effected with regard to their operations, you surely have no business opining on them to the point of suggesting they’re being less than honest in what they state to their customers, or suggesting something as unsettling as potential ‘bankruptcy’. What you likely aren’t aware of is that the recent ED issue created an alarming situation for both businesses and buyers in the online diamond buying world.

Are you in the trade, in that you own/work for a business that buys/sells/grades or any other function involving diamonds?

 

[lovedogs]

I don't need to speak to HPD about how bankruptcy law works or what happens in the event of a change of control of a business. What would you expect a company rep to say anyway?

Nor am I suggesting any of these companies would intentionally "scam" anybody. My statement was more a general statement about how the law works.

It really wasn't about the law, it was about how "worthless" you think the buyback policy is. When we pointed out that you literally know nothing about the business you are criticising, you are now claiming it was a law post? No.

 

[Kaycee2018]

I’m a little confused as to why @TODiamonds is being thrown under the bus here. Plenty of others recommended that OP just going with the cheaper of the two, especially since OP indicated that the buyback/upgrade policies are not a factor. And I certainly didn’t jump to the conclusion that his remarks about the future of the upgrade/buyback policies were meant to imply that these retailers are shady or trying to scam anyone. But the fact is there are a number of unforeseen circumstances that could result in those policies not being offered or honored in the future, despite the best intentions now, the structure of these companies, etc. And that is not meant to disparage these companies or imply that these companies are in any way trying to scam anyone.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’m a little confused as to why @TODiamonds is being thrown under the bus here. Plenty of others recommended that OP just going with the cheaper of the two, especially since OP indicated that the buyback/upgrade policies are not a factor. And I certainly didn’t jump to the conclusion that his remarks about the future of the upgrade/buyback policies were meant to imply that these retailers are shady or trying to scam anyone. But the fact is there are a number of unforeseen circumstances that could result in those policies not being offered or honored in the future, despite the best intentions now, the structure of these companies, etc. And that is not meant to disparage these companies or imply that these companies are in any way trying to scam anyone.

I’d argue TO is putting himself under the bus with the statements he/she has made. OP didn’t ask about bankruptcy law ... he/she even stated up front they weren’t interested in the buy-back policies. My take is the only reason they were brought up was to explain the potential price differential with regard to the value proposition each brand offers that is baked into their pricing.

For TO to suggest either company (or any company he/she doesn’t have direct knowledge of) may be disingenuous in offering such policies and/or bringing up potential bankruptcy filing is irresponsible, IMO, considering posts have ‘staying power’ on a forum that is frequented by people regularly considering both vendors, and this topic is one that is brought up with some regularity.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Both companies have outstanding diamonds that come from top notch cutting facilities! Whiteflash has been around longer, at least on PS, so I started out buying from them and have just stayed with them due to the excellent upgrade policy. I've changed diamond stud earrings a few times. I also have other Whiteflash diamond jewelry and have collected pairs of ACAs for my daughters. I have also been to Houston to their showroom and looked at many other diamonds. I actually love that while their diamonds fall into very strict superideal cut parameters, each diamond has tiny differences giving it it's own character. After all, some who are on the OCD side (including myself!) prefer a 55 table and others prefer 57, some prefer smaller lower girdle facets and some larger. But all those measurements work together in each stone to give ideal light performance, brilliance, and scintillation! I looked at many stones when I visited W all the way up to 5.5 cts.! There certainly wasn't one that I wouldn't be proud to own.

Bottom line at any point in time is which one has the diamond you want at the best price. Both are highly respected.

 

[TODiamonds]

I’m a little confused as to why @TODiamonds is being thrown under the bus here. Plenty of others recommended that OP just going with the cheaper of the two, especially since OP indicated that the buyback/upgrade policies are not a factor. And I certainly didn’t jump to the conclusion that his remarks about the future of the upgrade/buyback policies were meant to imply that these retailers are shady or trying to scam anyone. But the fact is there are a number of unforeseen circumstances that could result in those policies not being offered or honored in the future, despite the best intentions now, the structure of these companies, etc. And that is not meant to disparage these companies or imply that these companies are in any way trying to scam anyone.

Appreciate the post but don't even waste your time. The Kool-Aid is too strong on this forum - there's really no point in trying to provide truthful, candid responses to people. All they wanna hear is rah-rah-rah spend your hard earned money on a superideal from vendor XYZ and if your opinion is different then somehow you're an *******.

Will be really interesting to see what happens if diamond prices drop in the future to due changing standards for cut excellence, proliferation of MMD, or even big shifts technology or consumer/social preferences. I can promise you no company here is sitting on mountains of cash waiting to repay 80% of the value of diamonds that have plummeted way beyond that in value. And then there's ED... but that can never happen again right?

 

[the_mother_thing]

@TODiamonds Why is it you like to throw around hyperbole and such but never answer questions posed directly to you about YOUR positions on things?

 

[PreRaphaelite]

The Kool-Aid is too strong on this forum - there's really no point in trying to provide truthful, candid responses to people. All they wanna hear is rah-rah-rah spend your hard earned money on a superideal from vendor XYZ and if your opinion is different then somehow you're an *******.

I’m sorry you think that. This really is not the case. I have been here for a while and never once been treated that way.