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Thoughts on this champagne/brown pear?

elliefire99

Brilliant_Rock
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Oct 12, 2018
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Hello everyone!
Calling on the expertise of those who know more about diamonds than me...

I found this 1.04 ct champagne/brown pear for an excellent price ($1170!), but I am a bit hesitant because it seems that the cut is pretty mediocre. I also know that fancy cuts are much harder to evaluate "by the numbers." Add fancy color on top of that, and I have no idea what to think or base by decisions off of.

That being said, from what I have seen, pears tend to lean deeper rather than shallower, and this one scares me with a 51.8% depth and 67% table. Eep. It's wonderfully chubby though (which I love). I see a bit of bow tie, especially in those horizontal images, but it's not super dark.

Worth it??

GIA report: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2175903840&s=1539756550727
il_570xN.1418212794_i4xg.jpg

sb5372a.jpg sb5372b.jpg sb5372c.jpg sb5372d.jpg
 

Rpb

Shiny_Rock
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354
It's very pretty, would look lovely in rose gold setting...if you like the look of halos, pink diamonds in halo surrounding it would be absolutely stunning...
 

elliefire99

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It's very pretty, would look lovely in rose gold setting...if you like the look of halos, pink diamonds in halo surrounding it would be absolutely stunning...

Thanks @Rpb! I wasn't sure about rose gold, because this stone seems to have more yellow than pink undertones compared to some other champagne diamonds I have seen. But I have loved almost every champagne-rose gold pairing I have seen :)

But you think I shouldn't worry too much about the cut? Buying fancy shapes online is so hard o_O
 

Lykame

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Any way you could ask for an ASET image? That is what I would do, and then I would come here to ask what the picture meant. :mrgreen: I dunno, I have no expertise at all when it comes to fancy cuts, so I'm the wrong person to make a judgement. I'm just a bit nervous about that first picture, it looks a bit odd around the edges? I would wonder if it's dull and leaky in those areas. And I can also see some sort of bow-tie looking stuff in it - I think the only way to really judge would be an ASET or seeing what you think of it in person. The colour does look lovely. I'm not sure what colour setting it would be best in, I agree that the undertone looks more on the yellow spectrum rather than pink. So perhaps 18 carat gold?

The other thing I'm wondering is if it's a bit wonky? Maybe that's just the angle it's at. I know it's a bit difficult to tell with the pictures but yeah... the GIA report doesn't look wonky but I'm not sure how they do the plots on them. Just the more I stare at the outline even on the ones that I know are tilted... hmm. o_O

Hmm... it is such an unusual and pretty colour though! What's the return policy for it? Probably you need to see it in person. Plus ASET!!! :D

Let me repeat that I'm pretty clueless about fancy cuts.
 

elliefire99

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DEFINITELY know what you mean about the symmetry/wonkiness. I got this pictures this morning from a request for more images and I was a little unsure if my eyes were deceiving me about the shape. It seems that the left side is a little bit flatter, no? But I'm also not sure if that is just because it's lying on its left side.... I plan to bezel it most likely, so I may be able to even that out a bit with the setting.

I know about as much as you for fancy shapes and colors hahaha.

And of course! An ASET. I suppose there is no harm in asking for an one. I'm not sure the vender does that, since they specialize in fancy colored diamonds, and people say that colored diamonds are cut for color, not light. People also say that ASETs are vital for fancy shapes though so...
I will ask and update!

Return policy is pretty good. 14 days to contact them and 30 days to ship it back. But it's in Belgium, so shipping is $80 :???: :???: :???:. Definitely trying to be as informed as possible before ordering it here.
 

Lykame

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DEFINITELY know what you mean about the symmetry/wonkiness. I got this pictures this morning from a request for more images and I was a little unsure if my eyes were deceiving me about the shape. It seems that the left side is a little bit flatter, no? But I'm also not sure if that is just because it's lying on its left side.... I plan to bezel it most likely, so I may be able to even that out a bit with the setting.

I know about as much as you for fancy shapes and colors hahaha.

And of course! An ASET. I suppose there is no harm in asking for an one. I'm not sure the vender does that, since they specialize in fancy colored diamonds, and people say that colored diamonds are cut for color, not light. People also say that ASETs are vital for fancy shapes though so...
I will ask and update!

Return policy is pretty good. 14 days to contact them and 30 days to ship it back. But it's in Belgium, so shipping is $80 :???: :???: :???:. Definitely trying to be as informed as possible before ordering it here.

You sound like you're taking a really sensible approach to all this. There's no harm in asking for an ASET. Or, do you have your own?

I have been told before that coloured stones are cut for colour and not cut. I personally am not sure what I think of that. I get that improving cut lightens the colour but I also wouldn't be sure how much I would be willing to compromise on cut.

I guess the question is, even if it is leaky around the edges or/and has a bow tie, and is wonky (I really think it's wonky - a bezel could help), would you be happy and delighted with it? If so... Then order it. :mrgreen2: It has character right and it's nice and broad.

Keep us updated! =)2
 

elliefire99

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So no ASET :(, but the seller did send me a video. It's not really helpful, but I appreciate it nonetheless. Shows at least that the color in real life is consistent with the photos. More of a gesture of good faith than anything else.

 

Lykame

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That was nice of them. Very limited side on video. :lol: I should be less suspicious! ;)2

To be honest it looks like it might have promise. The edges look better in the video. I would buy it and accept the 80 as the risk. You could consider buying an ASET if that's important to you. AGS do one for $25. If you're based in America the postage isn't too bad.

Go for it? :D I'll live vicariously through you! :twisted2:

ETA: I'm thinking there'll be a bow tie based on his video angle choice. But you do have a face down view with pictures and fingers crossed that if it's present it's not an offensive one! Depends what you think of bow ties.
 

RetroQT

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Oct 14, 2018
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732
Here is the chart for pears. You can check your numbers against it to see how it does. But at 67 and 51.8, the table is rather large and the pear is shallow which will be an issue with performance.

Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 6.56.52 AM.png
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If it has a good return policy I would probably order it to have a look at.

I think depending on what you are looking for, and how picky you are, it may have potential. If you are looking for perfection, obviously this isnt it but
it may be a fun colored stone to have in your collection.

I'm not sure how useful ASETs are for colored stone. If you are looking for really good light return pears are not usually where its at.

I think seeing it in person and under different lighting conditions will make it much easier to decide whether or not to keep it.
 

elliefire99

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Thanks everyone for all the help and opinions!

@Cali-ohsomethingshiny. It definitely has poor specs based on the table, which is what prompted me to post this in the first place. But colored stones make my head spin... never sure what to think!

Serial pricescoping can make me feel like everything needs to be PERFECT. But you are all right. What matters is how I feel in person and if she enchants me and makes me happy.

Still making final decisions, but I will for sure update if I end up with this pear in person!

Tyty!
 

Mrs_Strizzle

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Wanted to just throw out there that I am familiar with that vendor and have purchased from him FCDs twice. They were both great transactions, and would definitely buy from him again.

As for the cut questions, I've got nothin' because I buy natural FCDs for color only.
 

Rockdiamond

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Hi
!

A few points:
1) ASET is completely useless in trying to evaluate the performance of a stone like this. Clearly, it's a funky cut. So the light performance will be funky.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
2) speaking of bad things.....this chart- which is only good for putting on the bottom of a bird cage. The intention was good- but the info offered is worse than useless.
 

RetroQT

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2) speaking of bad things.....this chart- which is only good for putting on the bottom of a bird cage. The intention was good- but the info offered is worse than useless.
Can you point me to another reference please since the one I posted is subpar per your comment?
 

RetroQT

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Thanks everyone for all the help and opinions!

@Cali-ohsomethingshiny. It definitely has poor specs based on the table, which is what prompted me to post this in the first place. But colored stones make my head spin... never sure what to think!

Serial pricescoping can make me feel like everything needs to be PERFECT. But you are all right. What matters is how I feel in person and if she enchants me and makes me happy.

Still making final decisions, but I will for sure update if I end up with this pear in person!

Tyty!
I’m still learning both as trade (just started) and as what I can now say here on PS (as trade). I’m not sure of my boundaries, so I hope I’m not outta line here. I posted the chart in hopes it just helps to guide the idea of specs for a nice pear, but it definitely is an eye thing. No doubt! Hopefully this one speaks to you or you find one that makes your heart sing.
 

elliefire99

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Oct 12, 2018
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Yay! Thank you @Mrs_Strizzle for the intel ;-) Puts my mind at ease a bit for international buying.

And thanks @Cali-ohsomethingshiny and @Rockdiamond for the industry info. Always good to hear from people who actually know what they are talking about :)
 

Lykame

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A few points:
1) ASET is completely useless in trying to evaluate the performance of a stone like this. Clearly, it's a funky cut. So the light performance will be funky.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

That's interesting. Why would it be completely useless? Wouldn't it give at least a level of information? I guess it might still be that even if the ASET didn't look promising you would still enjoy the stone in person, so I understand it from that point of view. But it must depart a level of useful information?
 

Rockdiamond

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That's interesting. Why would it be completely useless? Wouldn't it give at least a level of information? I guess it might still be that even if the ASET didn't look promising you would still enjoy the stone in person, so I understand it from that point of view. But it must depart a level of useful information?

Excellent question. To clarify: When evaluating a stone which is cut for contrast/patterns ( the classic example is a H&A type stone) then you know exactly what to look for in the ASET.
Stones like the one in this discussion use a totally different sort of "light mechanics" to achieve their performance.
The stone in the ASET was a fancy colored Oval Modified Brilliant. It used similar faceting to the type of stone we're talking about here- the two cuts are totally different- but for the purpose of discussion these aset/pictures give you the idea of the type of light performance I was referring to when I said ASET is not useful.
R8128-ASET white-01.jpg R8128-Officelight black-01.jpg .

Maybe we could say ASET is useful for elimination, as opposed to selection, on this type of stone. But even then, in the case of fancy colors, I always want to look at the stone. Some crazy things happen when you have brown/yelllow/pink and funky Light performance.


Cali-ohsomethingshiny

Welcome as trade!!!
My comment about the cut grade chart was too harsh- sorry.
I have great respect and affection for the author
Not that it changes my opinion. Fancy Shapes are too unpredictable to be able to use any sort of chart ( thank goodness)
 

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RetroQT

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Welcome as trade!!!
My comment about the cut grade chart was too harsh- sorry.
I have great respect and affection for the author
Not that it changes my opinion. Fancy Shapes are too unpredictable to be able to use any sort of chart ( thank goodness)
Thank you, @Rockdiamond. I’ve only been working in the trade for a week, so I’m just a noob comparatively speaking. So I appreciate the clarification and help so I can learn as well. ;)2
 

elliefire99

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Oct 12, 2018
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584
An update:

So, just when I had decided to go for a more traditional, more expensive white diamond, the seller has offered to lower the cost and cover the shipping, so that I can see the stone in person. So anticipate some further analysis in-hand!

Now I'm just afraid I will want to keep them both :whistle: Blow the budget altogether haha.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I think it's a lovely stone! Funky, but the color is unique and I think it would look great in rose gold :)

Do you mind sharing the name of the vendor?
 

elliefire99

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I think it's a lovely stone! Funky, but the color is unique and I think it would look great in rose gold :)

Do you mind sharing the name of the vendor?

For sure! I'm not sure if there is some kind of taboo about sharing vendors or whatnot. But I am definitely not a big enough client to be territorial. Haha.

The vendor is Radiant Diamonds in Antwerp. They list some of their stones as RadiantFancyColor on Etsy, but if you message them asking if they have any other diamonds, or send an email from their main site, they will make a log-in for you to access their full inventory on their site. The listings on their site are pretty sparse, but as you can see, they were more than happy to provide more info when asked!
 

voce

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I find it interesting that in the ASET @Rockdiamond shared for a fancy colored diamond, the most light return is for the least colored parts. Maybe it can be useful if you look for green instead of red.

Regarding this particular diamond, I think it's a lovely color, but the cut is rather shallow. For that reason, the center of the gem appears less intense in reflected light color than the more intensely colored regions in the table. This might be a small "window", but as this is a diamond, which is very sparkly, and not a typical colored gemstone with less sparkle, I don't think this is that noticeable, particularly when you set it in a ring.

For most folks who buy colored gemstones, color trumps cut considerations, but it's up to you whether the cut will bother you enough that you won't love this diamond. I do think that this one, and probably 99.9% of natural colored diamonds, is/are cut for color first and then weight. If you want maximum light return as your first priority, don't buy colored gems.
 

elliefire99

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So, financially responsible me came out of the woodwork and slapped me on the wrist and told me I can't buy two stones :( I REALLY wanted to, but I know if I got it and didn't hate it, I would want to keep it. Oh no. Someday.

So I unfortunately can't bring the real life analysis to the thread. :(2:(2:(2

But if anyone else wants to take the plunge, the diamond is there!

(And thanks for all the technical contributions! If nothing else, I have learned a lot about colored diamonds :) )
 

Lykame

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So, financially responsible me came out of the woodwork and slapped me on the wrist and told me I can't buy two stones :( I REALLY wanted to, but I know if I got it and didn't hate it, I would want to keep it. Oh no. Someday.

So I unfortunately can't bring the real life analysis to the thread. :(2:(2:(2

But if anyone else wants to take the plunge, the diamond is there!

(And thanks for all the technical contributions! If nothing else, I have learned a lot about colored diamonds :) )

In the loveliest and kindest way, please let me slap the financially responsible you on the wrist too. Just so she knows what it feels like!!! :lol::lol::lol:
 

Lykame

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
1,433
Excellent question. To clarify: When evaluating a stone which is cut for contrast/patterns ( the classic example is a H&A type stone) then you know exactly what to look for in the ASET.
Stones like the one in this discussion use a totally different sort of "light mechanics" to achieve their performance.
The stone in the ASET was a fancy colored Oval Modified Brilliant. It used similar faceting to the type of stone we're talking about here- the two cuts are totally different- but for the purpose of discussion these aset/pictures give you the idea of the type of light performance I was referring to when I said ASET is not useful.
R8128-ASET white-01.jpg R8128-Officelight black-01.jpg .

Maybe we could say ASET is useful for elimination, as opposed to selection, on this type of stone. But even then, in the case of fancy colors, I always want to look at the stone. Some crazy things happen when you have brown/yelllow/pink and funky Light performance.




Welcome as trade!!!
My comment about the cut grade chart was too harsh- sorry.
I have great respect and affection for the author
Not that it changes my opinion. Fancy Shapes are too unpredictable to be able to use any sort of chart ( thank goodness)

Ooh @Rockdiamond, also just wanted to say that is super super interesting information and an interesting example, thank you for sharing. Perhaps the only thing it tells you is that a bow-tie isn't such an issue, which might suggest a favourable cut? Or am I taking that too far too?
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Perhaps the only thing it tells you is that a bow-tie isn't such an issue, which might suggest a favourable cut? Or am I taking that too far too?
I could certainly agree that this ASET precludes a bow tie. I still would not want to buy the stone based on the ASET.
The stone was an Oval Modified Brilliant- which generally are not prone to traditional bow ties. Sometimes reverse bowties.....
But this was indeed a very well cut example.
.
 
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