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Request for Assistance - Sapphires and rings

movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
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Dec 14, 2018
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Good Afternoon Pricescope,

I've been lurking for a while but I think now is the time to break out of the shadows. I've read a fair amount but I have almost zero experience when it comes to actually purchasing gemstones - but I'm looking to buy an engagement ring for my girlfriend.

The idea is it should look similar to the attached photo, key points being:

Rose gold setting - she wants a rose gold wedding band and we both think its a good idea to have the engagement ring and wedding band match
Diamond halo... or starburst...? (Either way its the 'pointy' effect of the outer prongs she likes)
Oval sapphire (Clearly the important part!) - I'd prefer it to be lighter in tone than the one in the picture

thumbnail_Image-1.jpg

With regard to the sapphire I've established that I'm after:

An oval
Either Royal Blue or Cornflower Blue
Not fussed by where the stone has come from, more interested in how it looks
Heat treated, but with no other treatment
The most amount of brilliance possible - ie looking to avoid windows on the crown if possible
I have a budget of £1,000-2,000 ($1,250-2,500)
Size... I think in the region of 7.0mm x 5.0mm which I think is about 0.8/1.1 carats dependant on the cut?

Now for the bits I'm struggling with:

She doesn't wanta ring thats 'too big' (an unusual problem for a prospective fiancé to have I know). She has a friend who has an excellent cut 0.42 round diamond solitaire and while my gf thinks that is a little small she doesn't want anything too big (vague I know, but bear with me here). She's a doctor and wants a piece of jewellery which is both obvious as an engagement piece without becoming an issue while working.

Q1 - Would you consider 7.0x5.0mm still 'too big' (when compared to say the standard e-ring of a 1ct diamond solitaire) , particularly when the diamond halo is added? Do I need to look for an oval shape smaller than that?

Q3 - Is it possible to find sapphires of very high quality in these smaller sizes? - most discussion seems to naturally centre around 2-5ct sapphires.

Q2 - Is my budget reasonable? I believe it is, particularly given the size of sapphire I'm after but more than happy to be corrected.

Q4 - Where do I buy? I'm currently working in Bahrain, but will return to the UK in the new year (also visit Abu Dhabi if that's any use). I'm torn between trying to buy a stone and/or whole ring out here in Bahrain (Pros - cheaper, girlfriend still in the UK so unaware of what I'm trying to do. Cons - potentially less confidence in the quality of the stone, being stuck with a miss-sold stone when back in the UK) or waiting until I'm back in the UK (Pros - easier to go back to a vendor if there's an issue, Cons - price, delay in proposing).

Q5 - Many vendors listed are based in the USA, previously I'd found a thread discussing UK vendors but I can't find it anymore, could anyone suggest vendors?
Q6 - What else have I forgotten, misunderstood or ignored?

Sorry for the ridiculous number of questions! Even just answering one of the them would be a massive help to me!

Cheers,

movelikemountains
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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Hello! I'm not a coloured stone expert, so I cannot say anything helpful about the sapphire.
I really love this classic setting, though and wanted to ask a few further questions about this. You said your future fiancée is a doctor. Do you think she'd want to wear the ring at work? All my doctor friends
- either opt for bezel and low set options that they can wear under gloves without tearing them
-or wear a plain wedding band only to work and the ering when they are not working

There are a lot of prongs in this ring and I think it is not ideal for this purpose. Also it can be a hygiene issue. All the prongs and crevices are harder to clean/disinfect. I know places where you are only allowed to wear plain bands or burnished set stones.

Aesthetically speaking I personally find it extremely important that this setting style isn't only high quality, but extremely balanced. You see so many iterations of this particular style, that most of them seem a bit common, but the very nice ones are just stunning masterpieces.
There's one particularly nice one on PS. I'll try to find the link for you.
Another PSer just recommended a vendor in Dubai... Off to find the reference
 
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movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
10
Hello! I'm not a coloured stone expert, so I cannot say anything helpful about the sapphire.
I really love this classic setting, though and wanted to ask a few further questions about this. You said your future fiancée is a doctor. Do you think she'd want to wear the ring at work? All my doctor friends
- either opt for bezel and low set options that they can wear under gloves without tearing them
-or wear a plain wedding band only to work and the ering when they are not working

There are a lot of prongs in this ring and I think it is not ideal for this purpose. Also it can be a hygiene issue. All the prongs and crevices are harder to clean/disinfect. I know places where you are only allowed to wear plain bands or burnished set stones.

Aesthetically speaking I personally find it extremely important that this setting style isn't only high quality, but extremely balanced. You see so many iterations of this particular style, that most of them seem a bit common, but the very nice ones are just stunning masterpieces.
There's one particularly nice one on PS. I'll try to find the link for you.
Another PSer just recommended a vendor in Dubai... Off to find the reference

I'm not sure what she'll do. Previously I'd been looking at low set options for exactly that reason, but she spotted this design in Dubai last month (the quality of the sapphire was poor but the workmanship on the setting was good) and decided she liked the style. She's training to be a GP (Family doctor is US terms) which involves less of the whole gloves thing but honestly I think after the first month she'll stop wearing it at work - same as she does with her watch.

As for the setting I completely agree with you, I really dislike most halo settings (personally) but this particular design, and the one you linked really work. For me its all about the relative sizes of it all. The diamonds have to be in proportion to the central stone so they look like petals rather than just an outer ring while the prongs at the end have to be thick enough, and in proportion to the diamonds, so that when viewed at arms length the prong and diamond 'blend' into a sort of pear shape. All the while the whole ring has to remain at a size thats appropriate for the size of hand. Absolute minefield.

I like the idea of getting the setting around the stones in white gold while the band is in rose gold but I've got no idea if thats feasible.

P.S. The ring you linked was awesome, but any idea on the sizes?
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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3,451
They never answered that question in the original thread... But David Friedlander from Diamonds by Lauren is rockdiamond on here. I'm not sure he is allowed to answer any questions about specific pieces on the forum. But maybe contact him directly? I'm sure they can and will ship internationally.
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Messages
1,087
Is that budget for just the stone, or for the whole ring?

I’m in the US so I’m not an expert, but if you wait until you’re back in the UK do you get hit with more VAT if the stone comes internationally?
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,087
Here’s a few stones at $1300 range:
https://mastercutgems.com/Products-...e_Blue_Sapphire_1_33_carat-Gem.php?FromPage=1
https://mastercutgems.com/Products-..._Lanka_Sapphire_1_16_carat-Gem.php?FromPage=1
Personally I like the first one a bit better.

This site is running a 20% sale, which might put these in your budget:
https://www.africagems.com/sapphire-oval-0-98-201810415.html
https://www.africagems.com/sapphire-oval-0-85-201810577.html
The first one looks like it has great color!

Do you have some local jewelers who might be able to give you an estimate on the ring minus the sapphire? Then you’d have a feel for how much you have to spend on the stone.
 

leukolenos

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Messages
825
DBL also did @junebug17 ‘s ring which is one of my all time favorites in that style.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sapphire-and-diamond-cluster-ring.203934/

You can absolutely do a two tone setting- rose or yellow gold band, white metal for the halo stones. I personally think it would be better to have the whole thing done and shipped to you- the whole idea of trying to find someone local that you trust where you are currently would give me anxiety. There are also very few jewelers in the UK that I trust.

I think the setting will be fine if she’s going to be working as a GP.

Can’t wait to follow your project :) this style is one of my favorites and I love a good engagement story.
 

movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
10
Is that budget for just the stone, or for the whole ring?

I’m in the US so I’m not an expert, but if you wait until you’re back in the UK do you get hit with more VAT if the stone comes internationally?

Erm, I guess a bit of both. I wouldn't spend less than £1000 on the whole ring as I don't feel I'd achieve the quality I'm after for less than that. The size of sapphire I'm after (or at least I think I'm after) seems to price around the £900-1200 mark leaving me with roughly £1000 for the setting which I think should be enough. If the total ring price came to ~£2500 then I wouldn't die in a ditch over it but more than that and I think my gf would be a little uncomfortable as we're trying to buy a house/ start paying for a wedding at the same time.

As for the VAT, yes I'd have to pay VAT and duty based upon the price I paid for it (whether thats online in the US or B&M in the Middle East) when I get back to the UK. VAT in the UK is currently 20% and according to James Allen's calculator I'd pay duty on a whole ring, but no duty if I just bought a stone.

Thanks for the links - they're definitely within budget, and I really like the first one of the Africa Gems, great colour!

P.S. I'm assuming that ~£1000 is enough for that sort of setting?
 

movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
10
DBL also did @junebug17 ‘s ring which is one of my all time favorites in that style.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sapphire-and-diamond-cluster-ring.203934/

You can absolutely do a two tone setting- rose or yellow gold band, white metal for the halo stones. I personally think it would be better to have the whole thing done and shipped to you- the whole idea of trying to find someone local that you trust where you are currently would give me anxiety. There are also very few jewelers in the UK that I trust.

I think the setting will be fine if she’s going to be working as a GP.

Can’t wait to follow your project :) this style is one of my favorites and I love a good engagement story.


That is a fantastic ring, but I feel that would qualify as 'too big' for her as her day-to-day style is more understated than that. The workmanship on it is what I'm after though.

I'm going to visit some jewellers again tomorrow afternoon so I'll see what they can do. You say there are few jewellers in the UK you could trust - are there any you'd recommend. If I do buy in the UK I suspect it will involve several trips to Hatton Garden and/or Birmingham's jewellery quarter.
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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3,451
. I'm assuming that ~£1000 is enough for that sort of setting?
Hmmmm, I think that's a bit optimistic..... You'll need a custom setting plus the diamonds.
My last custom solitaire setting without any diamonds was above your budget in 14 k gold. I went with David Klass, who delivers excellent workmanship and is known for his reasonable pricing.
I know it would have been a lot more expensive in Europe (had 2 quotes locally).

ETA: if you get sth shipped to Europe (including the UK for the time being) customs/duties and handling fees combined add up to roughly 30%. It's not only the VAT. Just sth to keep in mind.
 

movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
10
Hmmmm, I think that's a bit optimistic..... You'll need a custom setting plus the diamonds.
My last custom solitaire setting without any diamonds was above your budget in 14 k gold. I went with David Klass, who delivers excellent workmanship and is known for his reasonable pricing.
I know it would have been a lot more expensive in Europe (had 2 quotes locally).

ETA: if you get sth shipped to Europe (including the UK for the time being) customs/duties and handling fees combined add up to roughly 30%. It's not only the VAT. Just sth to keep in mind.

Hmm, thats useful to know! I take it from your answer that you ordered from David Klass and shipped it to Europe on completion? How did you find ordering the stones, choosing the design etc without physically seeing it before it was finished? Also how straight forward was the process?

Sorry could you clarify was it the setting itself was more than £1000 or did the cost of the setting+customs/duties/handling fees push the total cost past £1000? I

Do you think that a combination of the two photos below would be a cheaper or more expensive design? (I think that the two pair diamonds would be more expensive than the 12 smaller rounds but that it would require less workmanship - don't know whether it would be more or less expensive).

nb - Diamond triple uploaded purely to showcase the design, not interested in a central oval diamond. Image-1.jpg

Image-1-2.jpg
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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3,451
No, we paid the duties upon immigration because DH picked up the ring. Price was over that before fees. It ended up not being much cheaper than here, but I mainly went with DK for the quality.
I have had my fair share of disappointments with custom projects here. All excellent benches who work for the big brand companies. But full custom can be so tricky.
I think the last two rings would be cheaper because you could use stock settings VS having a bespoke setting made. My original ering (wayyyyyyy before PS) is an oval with pear sidestones set in a stock setting. While the sidestones are exceptionally beautiful (LUCKED OUT) the workmanship doesn't compare. In order to be able to use the setting for a variety of stone sizes they use so called peg heads. It means they plonk a head into the space between the sidestones that'll hold the center stone. Not in the same league aesthetically.
 
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MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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images.jpeg
I found you one of the worse examples... Space is huge and the just plop in a generic head to hold the stone... *shudders *
There are better executions than this out there, though, but you won't really have a visually pleasing profile...

I forgot to answer the question about David Klass : I knew exactly what I wanted. Working with him was a breeze. I sent him what I wanted with lots of pics for each element, he made a cad I tweaked some details and 4weeks later the ring was ready.

Custom ist not for everyone, though. It can be very draining and if you are not 100%sure what you want, I'd suggest you go with someone who will advise more regarding the design. Maybe ask dbl for a quote for a smaller version of any of the above rings? They can source the stones for you as well.
 
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movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
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Dec 14, 2018
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images.jpeg
I found you one of the worse examples... Space is huge and the just plop in a generic head to hold the stone... *shudders *
There are better executions than this out there, though, but you won't really have a visually pleasing profile...

I forgot to answer the question about David Klass : I knew exactly what I wanted. Working with him was a breeze. I sent him what I wanted with lots of pics for each element, he made a cad I tweaked some details and 4weeks later the ring was ready.

Custom ist not for everyone, though. It can be very draining and if you are not 100%sure what you want, I'd suggest you go with someone who will advise more regarding the design. Maybe ask dbl for a quote for a smaller version of any of the above rings? They can source the stones for you as well.

Oh wow! That is poor, I see what you mean.

Yeah I understand the draining feeling about custom jewellery already. My main reason for looking at custom jewellery is not because I'm after a bespoke, one of a kind piece (although that would be an added bonus) but because I feel like I have more control over the quality that goes in and how the finished product will look then I would over a pre-set stone.
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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Oh wow! That is poor, I see what you mean.

Yeah I understand the draining feeling about custom jewellery already. My main reason for looking at custom jewellery is not because I'm after a bespoke, one of a kind piece (although that would be an added bonus) but because I feel like I have more control over the quality that goes in and how the finished product will look then I would over a pre-set stone.
Yes, that's true. But there are designers out there that will tweak one of their existing designs for your stone or design a setting together with you(caysie van bebber, elle from the gemstone project) . This comes with a well deserved premium. Unfortunately I think it might out of your budget.

Others will be executing your vision. This might be doable financially. Dk comes to mind.

As I said :if someone has nailed a particular design repeatedly, it's a good idea to go with that option.
I can't hurt to ask if dbl has anything in stock in your budget (I am in no way affiliated with them, lol).
 

movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
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Dec 14, 2018
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Yes, that's true. But there are designers out there that will tweak one of their existing designs for your stone or design a setting together with you(caysie van bebber, elle from the gemstone project) . This comes with a well deserved premium. Unfortunately I think it might out of your budget.

Others will be executing your vision. This might be doable financially. Dk comes to mind.

As I said :if someone has nailed a particular design repeatedly, it's a good idea to go with that option.
I can't hurt to ask if dbl has anything in stock in your budget (I am in no way affiliated with them, lol).

Out of interest, why would an alteration of an existing design be more expensive than a bespoke design? (Or have I just misunderstood :D )

Yeah, I've emailed DBL and a few other places so we'll just have to see what they say!
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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Out of interest, why would an alteration of an existing design be more expensive than a bespoke design? (Or have I just misunderstood :D )

Yeah, I've emailed DBL and a few other places so we'll just have to see what they say!
It's because you pay for their design service and the peace of mind that their bench will deliver 100%quality.
In the other scenario YOU need to do all the design work. Trust me, designing something is a real skill for a reason.

Look up some of the threads where local benches were 110%sure they could replicate existing designs. Epic fails. EVERY time.

I can't find it easily, but I but there was a lady who did a halo replica locally against all good advice on pricescope. She came back with a Frankenring that looked nothing like the inspiration. Try to dig around a bit... Lots of similar stories.
 

leukolenos

Brilliant_Rock
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movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
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It's because you pay for their design service and the peace of mind that their bench will deliver 100%quality.
In the other scenario YOU need to do all the design work. Trust me, designing something is a real skill for a reason.

Look up some of the threads where local benches were 110%sure they could replicate existing designs. Epic fails. EVERY time.

I can't find it easily, but I but there was a lady who did a halo replica locally against all good advice on pricescope. She came back with a Frankenring that looked nothing like the inspiration. Try to dig around a bit... Lots of similar stories.

Gotcha, I think if I went down the bespoke route I'd still be looking for a jeweller whose portfolio included the style I wanted so that they would be able to advise me what would and would not be possible as we went along. I wouldn't chose it on the expectation I would save money.
 

movelikemountains

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
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So my girlfriend has now settled on this sort of design, but without the diamonds in the band. I'm still trying to decide what shape sapphire to put in as the central stone. Oh and I've increased my budget to £3000 as it seems to give me a better prospect of finding what I want.
53b0c386-f331-47ba-96fb-ee80ecc72385.JPG

I've also managed to find some stones in person, I've taken a few photos but it was quite hard to do in the shop - I'm after people's opinions if possible to see if they match my own and/or if there are things I've missed. Apologies for the poor photos, the lighting in the shop made it hard to get a photo. The super close up ones are taken through a loupe.

The first is a pear shaped sapphire, I really like the colour and it didn't seem to have any windowing. It was bigger than I had planned but I might buy it for a necklace. The little certificate says that it hasn't had any treatment, the edges did seem a little darker than the centre but nothing like the (much, much) cheaper sapphires on display that I assume have been treated with a lattice diffusion. It also seems to have a flaw on the underside of the pear (not visible through the sapphire when face up). Initial asking price for this was £1100 but in standard Middle Eastern fashion I can easily knock 10% off that price by haggling.

IMG_5381.JPG IMG_5390.JPG IMG_5386.JPG

The second is the oval stone, arguably the colour isn't quite as good as the pear and it is still bigger than what I'm after, the certificate again says similar things to the pear. Not my favourite, I guess because the final stone viewed is much better (IMO).

IMG_5385.JPG

The final oval stone is currently set within a diamond necklace, I'm not sure of the exact size but it seems bigger than the other oval so I'd estimate 3 carats. The colour and brilliance seem to be really good. This one doesn't have a certificate but the owner was confident that it was his best sapphire. I'm a bit concerned that there is a window in the centre as when viewed from directly above the crown has a flatter colour than the surrounding facets - thoughts? Price for this one was £1550, again as an initial offer.

IMG_5392.JPG

Cheers,

Alex
 

MissyBeaucoup

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
1,124
Here’s a few more stones that might work:

Roger doesn’t list pices, but I’d inquire about the price of this:
https://rogerdery.com/gems/?page=/product/1607244

Nice price, but I’m not super familiar with how this vendors pics correlate to in-person. Anyone good at interpreting Brad’s pics?
https://www.thegemtrader.com/gems-ruby-sapphire/109-ct-sri-lankan-blue-sapphire

I like the cornflower blue color of Roger’s stone, but it is lighter than what you show in your inspiration pics. Brad describes his sapphire as dark, and I would assume that the color you’d normally see would not be as well lit. It is super pretty but would probably be too dark for my preference of blue sapphire.

Since you are looking at halos, you might look at the Etsy shop of JuliaB. She can source stones also. She is very understanding about issues of the setting height and wearing gloves at work, and can help you customize that.

I think the 7x5mm size plus a halo would be very wearable. I understand what you mean about “too big” rings. I have size 5 fingers and around 7mm is my sweet spot. The one I wear the most for work is this one, because it is almost a band. (My husband got it for me for my birthday.) I have mine set with a dark color change garnet from Brad at the Gem Trader. I think it would be very sweet to have an official engagement ring and another that is for more modest wear. https://ivyandrose.com/products/vin...ing-setting-semi-mount-princess-retro-14k-5mm

Enjoy this happy time! :wavey:
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
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The loost stone pics you added appear to be taken pavillion up. You really want to be looking at stones crown up, not pavillion up.
 
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