Just hit the order button, but doing more research has me second guessing - help

[4ank]

Hi all - looking for a diamond here. I wanted to keep it really reasonable as far as price (so willing to sacrifice in certain "edge" areas that probably only the experts know/care about) and found this diamond, which I think will be eye clean (at least prob to me, the untrained eye) but since I ordered I started doing more research on the angles and wondering if I may have went astray.

Thoughts on eye cleanliness and angles (esp depth). I know this violates a lot of the ranges posted here but would like opinions. It has a HCA 1.9 FIC (which I don't know if I fully understand)

I think I'm pretty confident with this, especially at the pricepoint and compared to what else you can get in that pricepoint, but looking to this community for help. Thanks in advance.

Specs:
7.69 - 7.75 x 4.83mm
1.80 carat
H
SI2

Table: 57%
Depth: 62.5%
Crown: 36%
Pavilion: 40.6%

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6562230

 

[4ank]

Also price is just over $12k

 

[Gussie]

I had a stone with very similar specs. It was very fiery but there was some leakage around the table. I noticed it. The high crown/ table combo with lead to a lot of fire at the expense of brilliance. It's cut a bit deep so you are losing some diameter for this carat weight. It is not bad but there are stones that will be more balanced with fire and brilliance and less leakage.

 

[4ank]

Thanks for the feedback. In looking at other diamonds, I can't seem to find one that fits that is a great cut, eye clean, with good idealscope, etc. without spending a few thousand more.

Am I missing something?

 

[skypie]

This is a classic steep-deep so it will look smaller than a well-cut diamond of the same weight. It is definitely not eye clean. You can see the inclusion around the edges of the stone as well some of the feathers. Not sure if the diamond is not cleaned well or if it's reflections but I see several sets of streaks across the table.

 

[skypie]

Thanks for the feedback. In looking at other diamonds, I can't seem to find one that fits that is a great cut, eye clean, with good idealscope, etc. without spending a few thousand more.

Am I missing something?

If you drop down in color you could get something that is eye clean and a super idealcut.

Check out this 1.81 K VS2 ACA for $11,446. Same size, eye clean and super ideal cut. If you are ok with the color then it's a much better buy than your James Allen stone.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018637.htm

 

[farrahlyn]

The "clouds not shown" in a SI2 clarity would be a no for me. Clouds can impede light performance in an otherwise nice stone. Symetry is "Good" not excellent and i can definitely see that in the pic and IS. a nice SI2 can be a moneysaver but you should choose carefully. 1.75ct is a "magic" ct size where you will see prices jump. So going slightly under 1.75ct would save some dollars.

Nice stone, fantastic clarity:
https://www.fourmine.com/diamonds/index/diamonddetail/id/8830594618
It is slightly smaller than the 1.8 stone you posted above. this is both stones on a size 6 finger with a 2mm band. The difference in face up size is just 2%, it is barely noticeable and not noticeable at just a glance.

 

[lovedogs]

Is I color acceptable? If yes, that opens up more options. Also, don't get caught up in weight--look at diameter. For example, your stone is 7.69, and this Wf stone is 7.56. that difference isn't visible to thr naked eye.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4059881.htm?source=pricescope

Others I like are:
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/121762...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5618602


Also in an SI2, additional clouds not shown concerns me a bit.

 

[4ank]

Thanks for all the replies - that's why I came here!

On the weight, I'm def. ok with going lower esp if the face up size is similar.

On color, I wouldn't want to go below I (I think).

And I'd like to stick with JA if possible - they've been great so far.

I'm going to look into these options, but please feel free to send more.

 

[farrahlyn]

Thanks for all the replies - that's why I came here!

On the weight, I'm def. ok with going lower esp if the face up size is similar.

On color, I wouldn't want to go below I (I think).

And I'd like to stick with JA if possible - they've been great so far.

I'm going to look into these options, but please feel free to send more.

There's nothing on JA that i would recommend now 1.7ct and over within your price range and specs. i really see no need to stick with them, they do provide IS whereas not all sites will but there are other options available on other sites that you should pursue if you want to maximize budget. What is the top of your budget? and what size range are you shooting for?

 

[skypie]

I highly suggest you ask whatever vendor you choose (JA, WhiteFlash, etc) to do side by side comparisons of stones with different colors. Ask them to find similar stones in H,I,J,K and photograph them from the top and the side.

Unless you are color sensitive you may be surprised to see how little difference there can be from a H to a K. I personally bought a WhiteFlash ACA K and both my fiancee and I find it very white.

 

[lovedogs]

Don't limit yourself to JA. They don't have the best stones, or the best customer service. I would focus on getting the best stone possible.

 

[lovedogs]

I highly suggest you ask whatever vendor you choose (JA, WhiteFlash, etc) to do side by side comparisons of stones with different colors. Ask them to find similar stones in H,I,J,K and photograph them from the top and the side.

Unless you are color sensitive you may be surprised to see how little difference there can be from a H to a K. I personally bought a WhiteFlash ACA K and both my fiancee and I find it very white.

JA can't provide that level of service bc they are a drop shipper (most stones are overseas). WF, HPD, and BGD are the only vendors I know who will do those things. And ID jewelry.

 

[farrahlyn]

ID Jewelry is a really good idea. Excellent customer service and they will get you the most for your money. Call, don't just browse the site. Give them your budget, preferred specs and let them know you're on PS.

 

[TreeScientist]

In addition to the red flags raised by others, another giant red flag is the presence of a knot. I would never buy a diamond with a knot inclusion. A knot is a crystal that reaches the surface, and they've been known to pop loose upon impact. If a knot falls out, then it becomes a giant cavity, which is unsightly and difficult to keep clean. Plus, as others have mentioned, JA is overpriced for what they offer. They're usually 10-20% higher than other vendors for the exact same diamond.

Here's a good option. 1.70 carat H/VS1. Cheaper here:
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/1775395

More expensive here, but has a video:
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.7-carat-h-vs1-yd4879949

Well cut, no worrying inclusions, looks crystal clear in the video, and about the same price as the SI2 that you've reserved from James Allen at $12.5k bank wire.

 

[sledge]

Honestly I think the 62.5 depth is fine. We set a range of 60-62.4 and I seriously doubt that 0.1% is going to cause major issues. I actually prefer 62 or less but that's another story & debate.

I'm more worried about the crown hitting that 36 mark. The idealscope image is pretty good, but you can see there is some minor leakage around the 1-3 o'clock position. Also, with those steep crowns and borderline depths you get what people call obstruction.

I really dislike the "additional clouds not shown" remarks on the side of the clarity plot. While a (rather big) feather is the grade setting inclusion, we can see clouds is the 2nd worst inclusion. Combined with that note on the side almost always equals bad things for an SI2.

Lastly, while the knot is the 4th worst inclusion, IMO it's an inclusion to avoid.

That said, here are some alternatives:

1.66 J VVS2 True Hearts @ $11,860
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...olor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-6250776

57 table, 61.1 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF

Ignore the carat weight. Look at the dimensions -- 7.60 x 7.66. Now look at the proportions. This stone has dreamy near perfect ideal specs! Not too deep, nor too steep. It will be a nice firey stone with a balance of brilliance. Also, you get VVS2 clarity and since this is a True Hearts (TH) stone, then JA should also provide you with a hearts & arrow (H&A) image confirming exact symmetry - make sure you ask for these images as they aren't shown on the website!

The sacrifice is the color, but it's not a massive jump IMO. All for a few hundred less. Great bang for the buck!




1.61 J VS1 True Hearts @ $11,220
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5245074

55.3 table, 61.8 depth, 35 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 77 LGF

Wow, this baby will be a firecracker. Love that small 55 table and steeper crown. Sometimes I get worried with a 40.8 pavilion but here we can see there are no issues as evidenced in the arrows/idealscope image and also confirmed on the computer generated ASET from AGS. Speaking of which, much love for AGS certification. It uses 3D scanning technology to confirm proportions and is more accurate than GIA in that regards.

Last but not least -- look at the size, 7.53 x 7.56. While there is about 0.20mm difference, this is right on the edge where most people can see a size difference on a SIDE BY SIDE comparison. Blindly looking in a non side by side comparison, you likely would never know there was any size difference. We are talking about 1/128th of an inch in overall diameter.

1.60 I VS1 True Hearts @ $12,730
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-6112698

55.4 table, 61.4 depth, 34.9 crown, 40.7 pavilion & 77 LGF

Wow...this one would probably be my pick. Love that small 55 table. Combined with the steep 34.9 (35) crown and very complimentary shallow 40.7 pavilion, this will be a complete fireball of awesomeness! The 77 LGF is a nice balance so the arrows aren't too fat or too skinny and will help balance the stone.

You get an I color and AGS cert, which I think is great while still getting VS1 clarity. While I am not always a big fan of JA's TH stones, the hearts image on this stone look pretty darn good.

Lastly size -- 7.51 x 7.56, which is more or less the same as the others.

 

[4ank]

There's nothing on JA that i would recommend now 1.7ct and over within your price range and specs. i really see no need to stick with them, they do provide IS whereas not all sites will but there are other options available on other sites that you should pursue if you want to maximize budget. What is the top of your budget? and what size range are you shooting for?

Wow thank you all for the replies. The reason I want to stick with JA is I actually already paid for the diamond and picked out the setting, so more for ease for me than anything else. That said, if there is something somewhere else, I'm not opposed to going that route too.

As for top end of my budget, I want to stay under $13.5 for the diamond. Size, I would love to be in the 1.7 and above or similar face up size as the 1.8 I have above.

I'm looking through all the others people have posted -- they are AWESOME!!

 

[sledge]

Wow thank you all for the replies. The reason I want to stick with JA is I actually already paid for the diamond and picked out the setting, so more for ease for me than anything else. That said, if there is something somewhere else, I'm not opposed to going that route too.

As for top end of my budget, I want to stay under $13.5 for the diamond. Size, I would love to be in the 1.7 and above or similar face up size as the 1.8 I have above.

I'm looking through all the others people have posted -- they are AWESOME!!

Does your $13.5k include the setting, or diamond only?

 

[4ank]

The $13.5k was the diamond only, but actually I had an epiphany. I had an old diamond that I was going to sell second hand but realized I would get more for it if I upgraded and help offset my cost. I bought it from Eternity Diamonds so I'm did some searching and upped the size and focused on cut first. Thoughts on ranking of these?

https://www.eternitybyyoni.com/2.05-I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-AGS-10406710909/ds-2776547/ - no GIA report? $16.4k
https://www.eternitybyyoni.com/2.20-I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-AGS-104059902013/ds-2741914/ - I color ok for this size? AGS Ideal $18.4k
https://www.eternitybyyoni.com/1.90-G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-GIA-2195724528/ds-3011685/ - faint florescence - all % appear excellent. GIA report looks really clean. Should I be concerned about additional internal and external graining on GIA report? $18.7k

 

[farrahlyn]

The $13.5k was the diamond only, but actually I had an epiphany. I had an old diamond that I was going to sell second hand but realized I would get more for it if I upgraded and help offset my cost. I bought it from Eternity Diamonds so I'm did some searching and upped the size and focused on cut first. Thoughts on ranking of these?

great idea! just make sure it meets their policy:

At Eternity by Yoni we have a lifetime trade up policy, where at any point after your purchase you can trade in your diamond for one of greater value.

If you would like a larger diamond, we offer 70% of your original diamond purchase price towards the diamond of your choice. We offer 100% of your original diamond purchase price, towards a diamond of double the carat size.

Our lifetime policy applies to all GIA certified diamonds bought from Eternity by Yoni. Diamonds need to be in its original undamaged condition and accompanied by its original certification. Setting and applicable charges may apply.
​

2.05 I VS1 i can't pull up the GIA report and the picture is a sample pic. so no comment
2.20 I VS1 - nice stone, an AGS000 BUT i'd be careful about color with a stone this large. Depending on the setting and how color sensitive the recipient is, some color may be visible from the side. I would definitely want a picture.
1.90ct G VS2 really like the proportions, color and clarity. the clarity comments i woulnd't worry about as much in a VS2 as i would an SI1 or SI2. Definitely need a picture and video.

 

[sledge]

Echo @farrahlyn's thoughts concerning double checking the upgrade policies to ensure there are no misunderstandings.

It could be quite a shocker to learn you are only getting 70% of original value because you didn't double the size. Whereas, doubling the size ensures 100% trade-in value. Also, there is a stipulation about the lifetime upgrade program being limited to GIA certified stones. I'd think AGS certified stones would also qualify but that is my assumption and the written policy doesn't indicate AGS is part of the program, so you need to verify.

FYI, if you get stuck in that 70% value then depending on the cut quality and specifics of your existing stone, I'd consider selling it yourself. You can probably garnish 50-70% off the original price and not be locked into their upgrade stipulations again.

But that said, JA's upgrade policy is more restrictive. You have to double the original purchase price to get trade in value.

https://www.jamesallen.com/guarantee/lifetime-upgrade/

Any loose diamond purchased from James Allen can be exchanged at 100% credit for any replacement diamond of at least 2X or greater value. The diamond that is being upgraded must be in original condition and accompanied by the original laboratory grading document.

Some of the other vendors like WF, HPD, etc are much more user friendly:

• WF = Get full value if you spend $1 more. No other restrictions.
• HPD = Get full value if you spend $1 more. No other restrictions.
• BGD = Get full value if you spend $1 more and upgrade 2 of the following 3: color, clarity or carat size.

Unfortunately, most the virtual inventory dealers like FourMine, BlueNile, etc will have policies similar to JA that requires 2x the original purchase price. Some even have "cooling off" periods that requires double the money plus a minimum 12 months before you can exercise the trade-in programs.

While not everyone trades frequently, it's good to be familiar with the terms of the company as you get deeper and deeper (dollar wise and size wise) into a company and it makes it hard to change later on.

 

[sledge]

https://www.eternitybyyoni.com/2.05-I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-AGS-10406710909/ds-2776547/ - no GIA report? $16.4k
https://www.eternitybyyoni.com/2.20-I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-AGS-104059902013/ds-2741914/ - I color ok for this size? AGS Ideal $18.4k
https://www.eternitybyyoni.com/1.90-G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-GIA-2195724528/ds-3011685/ - faint florescence - all % appear excellent. GIA report looks really clean. Should I be concerned about additional internal and external graining on GIA report? $18.7k

2.05 I VS1
This is an AGS stone, not a GIA. Look at the link you provided. See the AGS-10406710909 part? That is supposed to the AGS cert number. Problem is it's a number short. Going directly to the AGS website I've tried entering a few different variants I thought may work but so far haven't turned up the exact stone. Call EbY and ask them for the correct cert number.

2.206 I VS1
This is also an AGS certified stone, which I prefer as it provides a more accurate & objective view of the cut quality. However, you may run into the problem I noted above w/ your upgrade program. The wording states GIA certified stones. Again, ask EbY for clarification -- I'd really think AGS or GIA would qualify in their upgrade program.

That aspect aside I'm not in love with these proportions -- 57.2 table, 62.3 depth, 35.6 crown, 40.9 pavilion & 79 LGF.

You are pairing a really steep crown with a steep pavilion. This isn't what you want. In fact you want the opposite. An inverse relationship is what you seek to ensure the angles are complimentary. So steep crown + shallow pavilion, or vice versa (shallow crown + steep pavilion).

Obviously the stone was cut well enough to get a 000 AGS score on the scanner, but even the computer generated ASET is picking up some leakage (black circle). The green areas that I circled in white shows less intense light return but not leakage. These are all effects of the stone not having complimentary angles and proportions.

Looking further -- it only scores a 3.6 HCA, whereas you want a 0-2 score. Normally I argue that AGS scans supersede calculated HCA scores. And I still believe that. But in this case, I think it just confirms my initial thoughts.

Given the leakage, proportions, etc I'd pass on this stone. Too bad, as I do prefer most AGS000 stones.







1.90 G VS2
57 table, 61.9 depth, 35.5 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 80 LGF. And a HCA score of 1.3.

I think this stone has some potential. While the crown is still fairly steep at 35.5, it is now paired with a much more complimentary and shallow 40.6 pavilion. I would be curious to see an actual photo and video of this stone. Also, I'd want to see an ASET or idealscope to confirm no leakage is occurring.

If you aren't aware the lower girdle facets (LGF's) are measured to the nearest 5% on GIA certificates. So a reported value of 80% could actually be anywhere from 77-82%. The bigger the LGF value, the skinnier the arrow. Also, the larger the number the more splintered light return you get. I actually prefer 75 LGF's as you get fat arrows and bigger bolder flashes of light return. However, with GIA it's a guessing game where the actual value is versus the reported value. You can tell by looking at a picture or video. FYI, if you look at the sample photo, that stone has some fat arrows that are probably in the 75 LGF range. The arrows on this stone shouldn't be that fat.

Lastly I like the fact you are getting a G color here. Depending on your color sensitivity, that may be more noticeable than very marginal size gains of a stone that just barely eclipses the 2 carat mark. Which by the way pushes your dollars higher as magic weight math applies at 2ct.

Being a VS2, I'm inclined to think your notes about the graining is okay. Still a good thing to check but no major concerns at this point.

 

[4ank]

Wow - what an awesome write up and THANK YOU for taking the time. I'm working with Yoni now. In all honesty he is trying to steer me away from the upgrade program given it is messy. He said he would honor it but said I may be better going on consignment at a local store to get more $$. I bought the diamond in 2013 so prices have gone down since then. That's not really my problem but he is trying to find the best solution by working with the original supplier he got it from. More to come, but I am def. going to look more into that 1.9 above.

If I were to sell myself - what are the best avenues? Stats are 1.53 H Triple E GIA

 

[sledge]

Wow - what an awesome write up and THANK YOU for taking the time. I'm working with Yoni now. In all honesty he is trying to steer me away from the upgrade program given it is messy. He said he would honor it but said I may be better going on consignment at a local store to get more $$. I bought the diamond in 2013 so prices have gone down since then. That's not really my problem but he is trying to find the best solution by working with the original supplier he got it from. More to come, but I am def. going to look more into that 1.9 above.

If I were to sell myself - what are the best avenues? Stats are 1.53 H Triple E GIA

If you have a killer cut, then there is a for sale section here. Also LoupeTroop and eBay are some web based options. Then you have various vendors that will sometimes commission your stone on your behalf. Obviously, the less you do, the more you will pay in commission fees.

Do you have a copy of the GIA certificate of your existing stone, or the number? If so, we can look it up and get an idea what kind of cut, etc. Then I can do a cross reference for similar stones on RC to gain a small market sampling of what's available.

Running a sample scenario on RC, I searched for 1.50-1.59ct, H, SI1, 54-57 table, 60-62 depth, 34-35 crown, 40.6-41 pavilion, none/faint fluor and thing to slightly thick girdles. It kicked 14 results as evidenced below.

I personally think you will have a hard time beating 70% selling yourself. So unless you want to break away from Yoni, or they don't have a stone that works for you then it seems more advantageous to take advantage of your trade program.

https://www.rarecarat.com/c/e461eb8f-8415-4375-97d2-e6780910f156

 

[4ank]

Great advice! It's a good size and great specs from the research that I've done.

Here is the GIA 1132743822 and attached.

 

[sledge]

Great advice! It's a good size and great specs from the research that I've done.

Here is the GIA 1132743822 and attached.

For the lazy folks, I am attaching an image.

Wow, proportions are awesome -- 56 table, 61.8 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF!

That sucker should be a sparkle bomb! Also, you have great size -- 7.37 x 7.42.

My own thoughts are you'd want as close to a 2 carat + bump as possible to make it worthwhile. IMO, a mere 0.20-0.30mm increase isn't enough.

I will try to run an updated analysis for you on pricing.

 

[4ank]

I wholeheartedly agree with the bump comment. I did a ton of research on this original one and don't want to replace it with something that just isn't as nice and marginally bigger. The 70% may be the best option with a 2+ carat bump.