How do I interpret these diamond images?

[Igotarock]

Looking for an upgrade diamond and found this one. I have a few images but the video is too large to post. We don't know how to interpret the video. Read that the color and type of background affects how it appears? To our untrained eyes it looks good, and the vendor tells us it's eyeclean. The diamond proportions are within the parameters given by PriceScope. It scores well on the HCA and cut class tool, but we are a bit concerned that it won't look fiery enough because of the larger table. We know these aren't as helpful as a video, but from these images do you guys see any blatant problems? Is the fact that the background is white or the type of lighting they used something to be concerned about?

 

[lovedogs]

We need more info about proportions, etc. Can we have the GIA/AGS info?

 

[Igotarock]

I would rather not give out the certification numbers because of lurkers. How much info is safe to give?

 

[lovedogs]

Can you put the stone on hold and then post a link directly? That's helpful as well.

 

[kmoro]

I would rather not give out the certification numbers because of lurkers. How much info is safe to give?

Maybe just post the specifications? I don’t think you can tell too much from those photos other than the tint and that it has no glaring inclusions, and maybe that the cut has potential.

 

[OoohShiny]

You could just post the crown angle and table size if fire vs white light return is the main query - if it scores well on the HCA then I think we can safely assume the Pavilion angles will be complementary.

Posting the LGF lengths would also assist in terms of understanding potential for fire - the arrows look quite chunky in the video so I would say they could be around the lower end of the range, 75 or 76, maybe.

 

[Igotarock]

Table 58 crown35

You could just post the crown angle and table size if fire vs white light return is the main query - if it scores well on the HCA then I think we can safely assume the Pavilion angles will be complementary.

Posting the LGF lengths would also assist in terms of understanding potential for fire - the arrows look quite chunky in the video so I would say they could be around the lower end of the range, 75 or 76, maybe.

she prefers iciness over fire but still likes some so it doesn't look flat. Do chunky facets offer less scintillation vs thin?
Thanks everyone for the info.

 

[jp201845]

What is the Pavillion Angle ?

 

[gm89uk]

It won't have a picture perfect ASET with leakage likely at 12 to 2oclock. But overall nice. What's the price?

 

[sledge]

A larger 58 table will reduce the size of the upper facets; therefore, increasing white light return (brilliance) and reducing rainbow light (fire). FYI, 58 is the upper end of the ideal table size.

A steeper crown like your 35 will normally produce more fire. To get more white light return, you want a shallower crown around 34. In both cases, you normally want the inverse relationship with your pavilion angle. So a 35 crown pairs nicely with a 40.6 pavilion. And a 34 crown would pair nicely with a 40.9 pavilion.

Assuming this is a GIA stone, the lower girdle facets (LGF) will be reported in even 5% increments with the most common values being 75 and 80. A reported 75 value can yield actual results varying from 73-77, wheres a reported 80 value will yield results varying from 78-82. Larger LGF's tend to do better in bright lighting, appear a little more splintery as they throw small bursts of light return. Smaller 75 LGF's tend to do well in darker environments and throw bigger and bolder flashes of light return.

If you are looking for a stone that has more white light return, you might enjoy a stone with a bigger table, shallower crown and 80 LGF's. Another advantage of this crown & table effect is the stone will appear slightly larger for it's size than the carat weight suggests.

We really need more info to give a better assessment of the stone. But I would agree with @OoohShiny that the LGF's look to be in the lower 75-77 range. Also, it appears there are paddles beginning to form around some of the arrowheads.

 

[Igotarock]

It won't have a picture perfect ASET with leakage likely at 12 to 2oclock. But overall nice. What's the price?

Just under 24000

 

[Igotarock]

What is the Pavillion Angle ?

40.6

 

[Igotarock]

A larger 58 table will reduce the size of the upper facets; therefore, increasing white light return (brilliance) and reducing rainbow light (fire). FYI, 58 is the upper end of the ideal table size.

A steeper crown like your 35 will normally produce more fire. To get more white light return, you want a shallower crown around 34. In both cases, you normally want the inverse relationship with your pavilion angle. So a 35 crown pairs nicely with a 40.6 pavilion. And a 34 crown would pair nicely with a 40.9 pavilion.

Assuming this is a GIA stone, the lower girdle facets (LGF) will be reported in even 5% increments with the most common values being 75 and 80. A reported 75 value can yield actual results varying from 73-77, wheres a reported 80 value will yield results varying from 78-82. Larger LGF's tend to do better in bright lighting, appear a little more splintery as they throw small bursts of light return. Smaller 75 LGF's tend to do well in darker environments and throw bigger and bolder flashes of light return.

If you are looking for a stone that has more white light return, you might enjoy a stone with a bigger table, shallower crown and 80 LGF's. Another advantage of this crown & table effect is the stone will appear slightly larger for it's size than the carat weight suggests.

We really need more info to give a better assessment of the stone. But I would agree with @OoohShiny that the LGF's look to be in the lower 75-77 range. Also, it appears there are paddles beginning to form around some of the arrowheads.

LGF is 75 pavilion is 40.6, combined with the table of 58 would that create a ring of darkness under the table? Will it be dull and not have much scintillation? Also, what's a paddle? It looked nice in the video, but we've thought diamonds looked good that turned out not to be in the past.

 

[jp201845]

LGF is 75 pavilion is 40.6, combined with the table of 58 would that create a ring of darkness under the table? Will it be dull and not have much scintillation? Also, what's a paddle? It looked nice in the video, but we've thought diamonds looked good that turned out not to be in the past.

35 Crown Angle will work nice with a 40.6 Pavillion Angle . You shouldn't see a ring of darkness under the table with these proportions. A table size of 54 - 57 is prefered but nothing wrong with a 58 table that is acceptable.
@ Sledge explained bigger table means more white light return and a smaller table means more coloured flashes.
If you can post Idealscope & Aset images the experts on here can determine how well your stone is cut and if there is any apparent light leakage.

 

[Igotarock]

I'm asking for those I will post as soon as I receive them.
Thanks everyone.

 

[Igotarock]

Well I guess they don't have the ASET and ideascope images and I goofed on the pavilion angle it's actually 40.8 so would that throw this diamond out of the running? Looking at the hca score it's 1.8 but only very good on light return and very good on spread. Excellent on the others. The cut class tool says it's a 1A. Given the new information should we move on?

 

[sledge]

Can you put the diamond on reserve and share the link? Using the GIA number another vendor may have the same atone listed and quite possibly an ASET or other images might be available.

It's a long shot but it does happen.

A 35/40.8 combo can work, even with a 58 table. That said I've also seen several with those proportions that had leakage.

Simply stated, proportions and HCA gives us an approximation. The images you can't get get provide a confirmation. Now you have to make a gut call. If the stone checks all your boxes then get familiar with the return policy and order it. At the same time order your own ASET and H&A scope. When the stone arrives, use the scopes to confirm. If you don't like then return it.

The other option is to ditch this stone. Buy something with proven performance and have the assurance it's a great cut.

I don't care for stones with larger tables so I'd probably keep looking. But that is my preference, and not a hard fast rule. Put me in your shoes with a D VS2+, 34.5/40.8, 54-55 table and less than 62 depth and I'm taking the gamble.

 

[WinkHPD]

Do chunky facets offer less scintillation vs thin?

You have asked one question which I do not see addressed yet. Chunky facets and their virtual reflections against smaller facets and their virtual reflections. It is a balancing act. Much depends upon the alignment of the "chunky" facet or the thinner facet. Inside each diamond are 57 mirrors, assuming a modern round brilliant cut diamond with a pointed culet. These mirrors produces thousands of virtual mirrors inside of the diamond that move and change size as the diamond is moved, even by as little as your heart beating.

As the mirrors move and change within your field of vision, you will see sparkle as many obstructed virtual mirrors turn on and others off with every movement relative to the light, whether by movement of the light or movement of the diamond relative to your eyes.

In a perfect world with perfectly aligned facets, the virtual facets start out large and more of them are seen by the eye. Larger facets throw larger flashes of white and dispersed light. In order to be seen as fire or colored light, those flashes must be wider when they reach the pupil of your eye than the pupil so that one end of the light wave or the other, or even both ends of the light wave is clipped.

Again, in a perfect world, the larger facets create larger secondary, tertiary and so on virtual facets whose reflections are seen by the human eye. According to Peter Yantzer in a presentation made many years ago in Dallas, a one carat diamond rotated 40 degrees back and forth from perpendicular will generate about 200,000 virtual scintillation events. In a poorly cut diamond, there may be as few as three to five thousand of these flashes that are visible to the human eye. In an extremely well cut diamond, there might be as many as 15,000 of these scintillation events that are visible to the eye.

So, in theory, larger facets seen with shorter lower mains might have more eye visible flashes visible as both white and colored light, while smaller facets, in theory, might be so small as to create only small flashes of white light, not being large enough to create any eye visible color. These tiny reflections are often referred to as crushed ice.

Some people prefer crushed ice, some the super large and highly fiery facets on an Old European cut. In between there are a few bazillion combinations and your final choice depends on your taste, so you need to see as many diamonds as you can to determine what YOU like with YOUR EYES.

Enjoy your search!

Wink

 

[Igotarock]

Thank you for the info. I prefer fire she likes a combo of the two but more on the white light return. Would these parameters of this stone give us that, or would it be more of a white brilliance and no fire? Are you saying the chunky facets would help with the fire? The video does NOT show a lot of fire although it seemed very bright and white, but it is on a white background and not sure of what kind of lighting was used.

 

[Igotarock]

Can you put the diamond on reserve and share the link? Using the GIA number another vendor may have the same atone listed and quite possibly an ASET or other images might be available.

It's a long shot but it does happen.

A 35/40.8 combo can work, even with a 58 table. That said I've also seen several with those proportions that had leakage.

Simply stated, proportions and HCA gives us an approximation. The images you can't get get provide a confirmation. Now you have to make a gut call. If the stone checks all your boxes then get familiar with the return policy and order it. At the same time order your own ASET and H&A scope. When the stone arrives, use the scopes to confirm. If you don't like then return it.

The other option is to ditch this stone. Buy something with proven performance and have the assurance it's a great cut.

I don't care for stones with larger tables so I'd probably keep looking. But that is my preference, and not a hard fast rule. Put me in your shoes with a D VS2+, 34.5/40.8, 54-55 table and less than 62 depth and I'm taking the gamble.

Can you put the diamond on reserve and share the link? Using the GIA number another vendor may have the same atone listed and quite possibly an ASET or other images might be available.

It's a long shot but it does happen.

A 35/40.8 combo can work, even with a 58 table. That said I've also seen several with those proportions that had leakage.

Simply stated, proportions and HCA gives us an approximation. The images you can't get get provide a confirmation. Now you have to make a gut call. If the stone checks all your boxes then get familiar with the return policy and order it. At the same time order your own ASET and H&A scope. When the stone arrives, use the scopes to confirm. If you don't like then return it.

The other option is to ditch this stone. Buy something with proven performance and have the assurance it's a great cut.

I don't care for stones with larger tables so I'd probably keep looking. But that is my preference, and not a hard fast rule. Put me in your shoes with a D VS2+, 34.5/40.8, 54-55 table and less than 62 depth and I'm taking the gamble.

Haven't been able to contact seller is there a way I can pm you?

 

[sledge]

Haven't been able to contact seller is there a way I can pm you?

Unfortunately not. For whatever reason, the admins discourage personal contact I think because of the value of items, etc being discussed.

I did create a gmail account for users here to contact me but have gotten smacked by the admins for sharing the address.

 

[Igotarock]

Ah, thanks anyway.

 

[sledge]

Ah, thanks anyway.

Yeah, bums me out as I don't have an issue with the contact. I think a PM system is needed personally. I've been a part of car groups where people have several hundred thousand dollars wrapped up in their race cars and most were wealthy. It was never an issue and most the time we met up and ran cars down the race track, etc so plenty of opportunity for foul play. Just goes back to common sense and people participating in what they feel comfortable doing so.

Either way, the retailer should be open on Monday and then you can reserve and share info if you feel comfortable. Also, you can ask the admin to contact me on your behalf. I've had a few requests that way also.

 

[OoohShiny]

PMs can end up being used by spammers, shill accounts and those looking to commit fraud, which I think is why they were removed in the first place - I'm quite glad PS doesn't permit personal contact via the forum, it's nice to be somewhere that isn't wide open for a change! lol

 

[ringo865]

@sledge you can put a post on loupe troop and either add your email or people could use the (somewhat sporadic) in-app messaging.

 

[sledge]

@sledge you can put a post on loupe troop and either add your email or people could use the (somewhat sporadic) in-app messaging.

Thanks for the heads up, I do appreciate it. I went ahead and joined LT. You can find me by searching my username.

I do find it a bit disheartening that a forum as awesome as PS is missing such core functionality. I am not sure why it was removed. Two thoughts. We cut off 98% good for 2% bad. And an email address exposes us to the same risk and fraud potential as PM's. Yet an email is required to sign up.

Either way, I don't own the forum and so far no one has asked my opinion. So I will take my 2 cents and add a few bucks to it and get one of those awesome frappuchino's from Starbucks -- since I'm not a coffee drinker.

 

[AV_]

Fire is not often captured in video. I assume that the same explanation that @Wink has given holds for the lens - but there is more at play in the photographic setup, for sure...

About this diamond, I rather trust the HCA to guesstimate fire vs white-light. The stone is a very balanced (tame!) middle of the ground cut already.

2c