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Asscher Question re: Table & Depth

the_mother_thing

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Is there a performance or visual correlation/impact/effect (positive or negative) if an asscher table is bigger than its depth? For example, if the depth is 67 and the table is 70. The majority of Asschers I’ve looked at online have a table that is usually smaller than the depth so I don’t know what this would translate to visually/performance-wise.

Hope that question makes sense. Thanks!:wavey:
 

Matthews1127

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That all depends on the cut, and angles at which the other facets are placed.
You’d need an ASET and video to determine if the larger table than depth has a negative impact on the performance of that particular Asscher.
 

Karl_K

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Any rule that says a 64% table 60% depth stone can't be kicken isn't much of a rule.
on the other hand...
There isn't much chance of a 77% table and a 60% depth stone looking anything but dead.
 

AV_

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Whatever relation there might be, I still want to see them all. Came across plenty of surprises via pictures & in person even more diamonds are surprisingly beautiful.Photography does diminish them allot...
 

OoohShiny

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This is the opposite of the large table/shallow table stones being discussed, but I didn't know where else to post it :razz: lol

How about a 55% table and 72.3% depth?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/0.57-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-6137141

I thought it looked very deep but seems to perform nicely!

I think it has a sister stone as well, going from the cut style / colour, although it's cut to less wide-ranging table/depth :)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/0.51-carat-d-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-6268544
 

Karl_K

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This is the opposite of the large table/shallow table stones being discussed, but I didn't know where else to post it :razz: lol

How about a 55% table and 72.3% depth?
I am not supposed to comment on a specific stone, but look at the MM measurements not the depth for such a combo.
Then look at the crown height and how much weight is in the pavilion.

In general it would be considered a bit deep for a 55% table but if the mm is close and a lot of the depth is in the crown and all the angles match well and they are in the right place it could rock. Or it could rock and face up small if the MM falls that way.
For a 40% table with a high crown the depth or even deeper it could be in the right range.
Again look at the MM measurements and where the depth is at on the diamond.
 

Rockdiamond

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Rules like this are.....nonsense.
I've seen amazing Asscher cuts in many different proportion sets....including large tabled shallow stones......I don't recall if there was one exactly at 77t 60d....and I can totally understand Karl's point- but sometimes an Asscher can surprise you.
 

Karl_K

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Yes David, occasionally one will surprise you that in spite of the numbers it works and has "IT".

In general once the depth hits 70 I look at the crown height and if it makes me think wow that has a high crown I investigate further.
Its the second thing I check after face up patterns on any one.
 

Rockdiamond

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I think that Asscher cuts, in general, surprise me more than any other shape.
Stones that "look" like they should be great on paper are meh once I see them in person, and others that look bad on paper can truly rock- even shallow crowned Asschers can be amazing if the shape is there- and the pavilion is cut to compensate.
 

Karl_K

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I think that Asscher cuts, in general, surprise me more than any other shape.
Stones that "look" like they should be great on paper are meh once I see them in person, and others that look bad on paper can truly rock- even shallow crowned Asschers can be amazing if the shape is there- and the pavilion is cut to compensate.
Then you get the ones that look great in bright diffused lighting but lacking in low and direct lighting.
Then you get ones that look good face up but they dont dance very well when moved.
Then you get some that are a little blah face up but dance like crazy when moved.
They are very complex in a package that sounds simple.
 

Rockdiamond

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So true old buddy!!
What I look for is a balance. Truly no single stone is best at everything.
 

clcat120

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Mine has a 67% table and 62.5% depth. @Karl_K wrote a mini analysis on mine on page two of this post: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rlk-diamondseeker-anyone-thanks.245617/page-2

I think mine, although shallow, has a very beautiful visual. It also appears to be very bright. I think the table view is more "flat" like a mirror, which allows the stone pick up the reflection of its surroundings. Pretty cool.

Two videos I like the most are here:


 

diamondseeker2006

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I honestly do not look at numbers on asschers, other than I may set search parameters for tables less than a certain size. There is a lot more to cut than table size and depth, so I only look at asschers that have pictures and videos. I can easily tell which ones would be candidates for myself, and I can broaden that a little when helping someone else who might not have my preferences. Ultimately they have to be seen. But my fear sometimes is that people think a so-so diamond is beautiful just because they haven't seen better ones. (Yes, good cut diamonds can be somewhat pretty.) And once you see some outstanding diamonds (of any shape), it's hard to settle for less.
 

clcat120

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Mine has a 67% table and 62.5% depth. @Karl_K wrote a mini analysis on mine on page two of this post: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rlk-diamondseeker-anyone-thanks.245617/page-2

I think mine, although shallow, has a very beautiful visual. It also appears to be very bright. I think the table view is more "flat" like a mirror, which allows the stone pick up the reflection of its surroundings. Pretty cool.

Two videos I like the most are here:



Too add, if you find one asscher that reaches mine’s profile, it has more of an emerald feel to it. I assume for those asscher connoisseur, mine will be more labeled as a sqaured step-cut. Both me and my friend loves the flatter one more than the deep ones as we think the “rings” on a deep asscher are too busy for our taste. Just my two cents!
 

the_mother_thing

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I greatly appreciate all of the feedback & input shared in this thread. In browsing Asschers, it was just something I noted with a couple of stones I came across, and it *seemed* to contradict the general guidelines I’ve read and the table vs depth ranges I’ve seen in others I looked at, so I’d hoped there would be a sort of cut & dry explanation of what the result of such specs might be, but that clearly isn’t the case. My problem is, in the pics/videos I see on JA, BN, etc., they don’t look drastically better/worse to my very untrained eye, so I’m just trying to figure out what exactly I should look at/for when I am browsing. It really sucks that you can’t exactly ‘buy by the numbers’ like with MRBs.

I hate to say it, but I’m really beginning to think that buying an asscher may just not be in the cards for me, and that I should leave it to be something I admire vs. sweating buying one for myself. I don’t really have the patience to keep ordering/buying stones to have shipped to me and deal with the hassles of returning them. If my budget would allow, I’d just buy an Octavia and call it a day, but then again, even an Octavia is a different ‘flavor’ of asscher, so I probably really need to figure out - for certain - what ‘flavor’ I want/like, but the only way to do that is to see a bunch in person, and that isn’t really possible without buying/returning them. It’s a crappy Catch 22. :(2
 

Karl_K

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@the_mother_thing I understand that it can be daunting but when you find "the one" it is so incredible!
 

the_mother_thing

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@the_mother_thing I understand that it can be daunting but when you find "the one" it is so incredible!

I totally understand that, Karl. I guess it’s defining what “the one” is/means to me in terms of look. I don’t know that answer because there are so many variables & flavors with asschers, and what I thought I wanted didn’t pan out when I had it in hand. And since this is a “nice to have” purchase (e.g., not a first e-ring), I don’t feel bad about going back to the drawing board on it. I just wish I could sit down and look at a few different asschers in person with my eyes to figure out what I do & don’t like in person to guide/set my preferences, or if I just don’t like any of them enough really to even buy one, if that makes sense.
 

OoohShiny

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I totally understand that, Karl. I guess it’s defining what “the one” is/means to me in terms of look. I don’t know that answer because there are so many variables & flavors with asschers, and what I thought I wanted didn’t pan out when I had it in hand. And since this is a “nice to have” purchase (e.g., not a first e-ring), I don’t feel bad about going back to the drawing board on it. I just wish I could sit down and look at a few different asschers in person with my eyes to figure out what I do & don’t like in person to guide/set my preferences, or if I just don’t like any of them enough really to even buy one, if that makes sense.
I think you are describing exactly the situation most step-cut buyers are in!

Finding good asschers and/or emeralds locally is incredibly difficult unless one happens to live in the same town as one of the PS-recommended vendors :(


I know what I like to see in the JA videos, but how does it translate in real life?
Would my eyes like how my preferred JA stones perform in real life?
Would I even want a step-cut in the end, given some (most??) ECs seem to have at least one angle where all the facets are 'off', meaning they look a bit lifeless/dark? (or is that just poorly cut stones??)
Would I be as wowed by Yoram's stones as everyone else seems to be?

Without opportunity to spend some serious time looking at all the different flavours of stepcuts, of different sizes and in different lighting environments, I don't think anyone can really get a complete handle on how different stones and cut styles should perform :(

The only way to remedy this seems to be either become a trader oneself :think: :lol: or to irritate the hell out of your (probably lone) local retailer by spending ages in there, looking at lots of stones and taking up lots of staff time, then walking out without buying anything...

I guess one other option would be to order stones off the internet for assessment at home, to learn what you like, but (again) that involves cost and inconvenience to the retailer(s)...


Ho hum! :(
 

evergreen

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So much of it comes down to what your eye sees (nb: yes, the numbers are what determine this) but there are too many variables to know what you're getting just based on numbers. I'm having this silly little impulse-buy stone set into a pendant someday soon -- 57% depth, 75% table, even WORSE than @Karl_K mentioned upthread; he did opine on my purchase thread, though, which leads me to appreciate him for his expertise AND his openmindedness. :lol: Truly, it's a bright little stone, despite some areas of leakage, but those proportions are RIDICULOUS. :shifty: I'd never choose a stone like this for a ring -- the table glare is blinding, and too much obstruction for a ring -- but it's a fun example of why there aren't hard-and-fast rules for fancy cuts like there are for MRBs.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/0.44-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-3180369

IMG_20171202_103617.jpg
(my home-made inexpert ASET)
 

the_mother_thing

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Thanks so much @OoohShiny & @evergreen for your experiences/thoughts on my dilemma.

I think part of my dilemma also is that because this isn’t a ‘must-buy holy grail’ purchase and it’s more of a ‘splurge’, that I am not necessarily hell bent on perfection/ideal. If I did, again, the Octavia would have me hands down, no questions asked, just based on pics and videos I’ve seen of them. But that said, I still want to enjoy what I see when I look at it.

Having seen the other BN asscher that I returned as well as a couple sims I’ve looked at as comparison for shape/size, I think what I want/like are clear, crisp steps that turn off and on under the table, but I also like the glittery effect around the crown facets as they sort of frame the step action much like a halo would, but without the added bulk/metal of an actual halo. And I think the problem is, to achieve both of those in the size I’d want/need to be able to appreciate both qualities, it will come at a pricetag I just cannot justify in my head spending. It’s not even about the color ... I’d happily go with a light brown or yellow, or the far/lower end of the color spectrum, as I love color/warmth and don’t need/want ‘icy’ white. But so few seem to carry lower-colored diamonds, much less in an asscher cut.

Maybe I should just find/buy a nice emerald cut, and halo it to get the outer sparkle-frame effect that I like.

:wall::wall::wall:
 

Karl_K

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videos, but how does it translate in real life?
Would my eyes like how my preferred JA stones perform in real life?
Would I even want a step-cut in the end, given some (most??) ECs seem to have at least one angle where all the facets are 'off', meaning they look a bit lifeless/dark? (or is that just poorly cut stones??)
Video with the stone on the p2 do not translate very well to the real world, but they are an indication.
Step cuts have the widest tilt range of any design because they have 6 or more fairly widely different pavilion angles drawing light in a wide range of angles around the stone.
Then with a small table and high crown you have a very large 3d sculpture effect that looks awesome in its own right.
Think of a mountain rising out of the ring. Which is why I originally called the Octavia the Volcano.

Contrast this with the princess cut which has a very narrow range of light draw and a small tilt range and next to no 3d effect.
A Ideal cut MRB falls someplace in the middle between the 2.
 
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Dancing Fire

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Here the ASET of my old Octavia..:love:
aset.jpg
 

MarionC

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@the_mother_thing I understand that it can be daunting but when you find "the one" it is so incredible!
Even better...One of each flavor. Oh it’s heck [lady version of hell] to be on PS and see the possibilities :cry2:
 
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