99.2% of recent US Covid deaths were unvaccinated people

[GoldenTouch]

Here in Australia it is now mandatory for all staff in aged care & residents care to have the vaccine. I think it will roll out to other businesses as well & I have no objections to it.
To me it’s about keeping the people in care safe - just like having a police check done.
I think we will hear of some people complaining when they can’t do their jobs… but there are plenty of people qualified to take their spots!
I hear that some can’t have it for medical reasons - but I haven’t come across any.
A friend of mine has just had cancer- vaccinated! She was not well after the first one but it didn’t stop her having the second dose - which she was fine.
Disabled client & very good friend on MULTIPLE nasty medications - both vaccinated. All my parents & their elderly friends vaccinated.
I admit I felt off colour & tired after having it & a very sore arm but fine the next day! Hardly a reason not to have it.
Once it is cleared for children to have it I’ll be booking in my daughter & she is everything to me.
Our Medicare app shows when you are fully vaccinated & I think this is on there as down the track people will be asked to prove vaccination to do certain things.
Can’t & won’t are two different things.

 

[OboeGal]

CDC: 4,115 Fully Vaccinated Have Been Hospitalized Or Died With Breakthrough Covid-19 Infections

Although the Covid-19 vaccines offer very good protection, they are not perfect. Covid-19 infections, hospitalizations, and deaths can still occur.

www.forbes.com

That's not what she asked for evidence for. @Queenie60 claimed that there had been many deaths and severe adverse reactions caused by the vaccines themselves. The article you posted is referring to hospitalizations and deaths caused by breakthrough COVID infections in people who received the vaccine, not by receiving the vaccine itself. You are still far, far less likely to need hospitalization or die from COVID after receiving the vaccine, but it's not 100% foolproof - no vaccine or medication is.

 

[Dancing Fire]

@DF, did you read the article you posted above? It supports that idea that the vaccines are effective. And those deaths are not from the vaccine, they are from covid infection. LOL. You've been hoisted by your own petard.

My point is...your not as protected as you might think.

 

[GoldenTouch]

My point is...your not as protected as you might think.

My opinion is it is better than nothing & everyone who can must try. Frankly I’m sick of people with their “rights” - & in Australia we don’t seen as bad as in America…. but I’m sick of it. I think we pussy foot around people to often….
I always have the flu shot, after being SO sick with the flu for weeks 20 years ago. Since then I have only had a bad cold. I wouldn’t risk it. I’ve had people (who refuse to have it) come to work saying “I have the flu…”, Um… NO you don’t! You have a cold. If you have the flu you are not getting out of bed (because you can’t!) & feel like death.
I use a saying regularly “if you fail to plan you plan to fail”. I take the vaccine as the planning stage because I don’t want to fail - more to the point fail my elderly loved ones.

 

[Matata]

My point is...your not as protected as you might think.

Ok. I don't think many would refute that. We've spoken over and over again in covid discussions here, and posted tons of articles, relating to the fact that vaccines are not fool-proof. You claim they aren't safe, are experimental and that's why you choose not to vaccinate but you haven't yet presented any information that remotely proves they are unsafe to such a level that people should fear getting vaccinated.

 

[Lookinagain]

My point is...your not as protected as you might think.

But clearly more protected than not being vaccinated. I weighed being 80-90% protected with the vaccine vs. the odds of serious illness or death without it or the even more remote chance of having some horrible effect resulting from being vaccinated. The 80-90% definitely came out as the winner.

 

[lovedogs]

It's clear that some folks here refuse to listen to science and reason, spread lies, and then retreat or move the goal posts when called out.

 

[Calliecake]

What would it take for you to get the vaccine @Dancing Fire? I’m seriously not tying to start something just curious what it would take to change your mind to get the vaccine.

 

[kenny]

What would it take for you to get the vaccine @Dancing Fire? I’m seriously not tying to start something just curious what it would take to change your mind to get the vaccine.

... maybe love for his grandchildren.
Imagine how sad they'd be if their grandpapa DF died of COVID-19, especially since he didn't have to.

 

[GeliL]

As much as I think that everyone should do their part in society and get vaccinated, it is in poor taste to hint at the potential death of anyone.

Everyone just wants to be healthy and overcome the pandemic, and they are making decisions based on their own knowledge and reasoning. Regardless of whether or not you think they are valid, that's just not ok. Please be civil about this, inciting emotional responses to like this will not make those unwilling to get the vaccine vaccinated.

 

[yssie]

There is no space in the American ethos for people who are neither rabidly pro-vaccine nor rabidly anti-vaccine. There are a lot of people who have no moral objection to vaccination, but who do have concerns abut a brand new vaccine - and who do have some skepticism regarding both effectiveness and side-effects.

I don't fault anyone in that third bucket. Public health officials have stood firm in the messaging that the best vaccine is the first one you can get. But all the health professionals I have spoken to have indicated - explicitly, and privately - that their preference for themselves and their loved ones is one of the mRNA vaccines. And the mRNA vaccines are certainly more studied - which in my book makes automatically makes them better choices. So if you, one specific individual, could get the J&J today, and you could get an mRNA version next week, is the "best" vaccine for you truly the "first"? No public health official, no website, no news outlet, no public information source will give you a straight answer. And what if you're immunocompromised? Know that you tend toward more severe allergic reactions than most people? What if you're on specific drug regimens? What if you're pregnant or nursing? I can't possibly fault a person for being concerned by the fact that developed countries all have different default recommendations despite distributing identical or similar vaccines. Sure, you could talk to your personal health provider - but just how many people have timely access to GPs who know their medical histories? I do. Most PSers do, I’m sure. But that is a recommendation that is available to very few Americans and everyone knows it.

I'm vaccinated. I was not wholly comfortable with the choice, but my risk profile is such that me being vaccinated is likely to do more good than harm for myself and my nearest and dearest. I don't doubt that the lack of transparency in public health messaging is turning people away, making people consider their own risk profiles and arrive at different answers than I did. As long as they continue to wear masks when in public - I for one will not fault them for it.

 

[Queenie60]

Please cite your sources and can you quantify “many”? Thanks.

To be honest, no I can't quantify "many" - and sources; I receive a lot of literature from friends and family via email. Some I read, some I don't. Some I agree with and some I do not and some are such ridiculous conspiracy theories that even I can't read them. And to tell the truth, most I delete. I was not able to find the articles (sent to me via email) so that I can provide you with my sources. So I now have my helmet and armor on so that everyone can come at me with all of their anti-Queenie hate. That's okay by me - you would think I would have learned my lesson by now!! However, I do stand by my previous statement that my husband and I had COVID 19 back in February, have been tested for anti-bodies and have them. After consulting with our doctor, we are confident that we are protected; we are to be tested again next month for anti-bodies as to compare with test taken months ago.

 

[Calliecake]

@Queenie60, No anti Queenie hate here. You can put the armor and helmet down.

I’m just interested in why people choose not to get vaccinated. I have a few relatives who refuse to get vaccinated who I love dearly.

 

[Queenie60]

@Queenie60, No anti Queenie hate here. You can put the armor and helmet down.

I’m just interested in why people choose not to get vaccinated. I have a few relatives who refuse to get vaccinated who I love dearly.

Thank you - I have strong opinions about the vaccine as it is difficult to be completely on board when the government is involved as well as the harsh push to take the vaccine. I'm a skeptic when it comes to government intervening to such a degree. Luckily my husband and I have anti bodies as we had the COVID virus back in February. Thank you @Calliecake - I always appreciate your gracious comments. Still holding on to the armor and helmet as I know I'll take a bit of heat.

 

[icy_jade]

What would it take for you to get the vaccine @Dancing Fire? I’m seriously not tying to start something just curious what it would take to change your mind to get the vaccine.

For some people that I know, it took the death of someone close to them to be convinced to take the vaccination. I hope for that doesn’t happen for anyone here as it’s a painful way.

@Dancing Fire I have elderly parents and in-laws and I am very glad that they willingly took the vaccination when they were given the option to. It’s much less worrisome that they may become seriously ill if they are infected with covid or that we could lose them. Similarly, I don’t want my kids to be infected and possibly permanently affected thereafter (long covid, infertility, etc). So when the time comes and with medical trials that demonstrates the relative safety of the vaccines for younger children, I will let my kids take the vaccine. Because I love them and want them to be safe, so I will make the same decision as I did for all the other childhood vaccines that they have taken.

As for vaccination side effects, apparently it’s much less severe for elderly vs younger people because of the immune system response. So my parents didn’t have much side effects from their vaccination unlike me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

@Dancing Fire I have elderly parents and in-laws and I am very glad that they willingly took the vaccination when they were given the option to.

I'd agree 101% the elderly should be vaccinated. If my parents were still alive I'll be sure that they are vaccinated but as for young children I wouldn't do it. That just me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

What would it take for you to get the vaccine @Dancing Fire? I’m seriously not tying to start something just curious what it would take to change your mind to get the vaccine.

CC, b/c of my heart murmur. I will not risk my life. Is that so hard for you guys to understand?

 

[Calliecake]

CC, b/c of my heart murmur. I will not risk my life. Is that so hard for you guys to understand?

I was curious @Dancing Fire. I’m not trying to give you a hard time. I completely understand if someone’s doctor tells them it is a bad idea for them to get the vaccine.

 

[icy_jade]

CC, b/c of my heart murmur. I will not risk my life. Is that so hard for you guys to understand?

Because the advisory we’ve read is that the vaccine is safe for people with heart conditions?

Covid vaccines: your questions answered

Everything you need to know about the Covid vaccine, including safety, effectiveness and side effects.

www.bhf.org.uk

Again, totally understand if your doctor has advised against it - every individual’s condition differs, but otherwise, it’s still the odds of dying from vaccination vs dying from covid, and the latter is the higher chance.

 

[Queenie60]

Because the advisory we’ve read is that the vaccine is safe for people with heart conditions?

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informations...accine-your-questions-answered#safeheartou an

Again, totally understand if your doctor has advised against it - every individual’s condition differs, but otherwise, it’s still the odds of dying from vaccination vs dying from covid, and the latter is the higher chance.

@icy_jade - I can appreciate your opinion however, please try to understand those of us who fear the vaccine. We all must admit that it is in the experimental stage. Personally, I am glad that I have had the virus and have anti-bodies that will protect me just the same as receiving the vaccine. However, I can't imagine taking the vaccine - I am petrified. I do not take the flu shot, have passed on the shingles vaccine and many others. No, I am not an anti-vaxer - just quite fearful of the Covid vaccine. You may ask why? It may not make sense to you and others but I am deathly afraid of it and know in my gut that I would be "the one" who would die or have severe negative effects from the "vaccine" And again, some of us do not trust the information given to the public as it changes daily. And the fact that there's such a "push" - why wouldn't you question a drug to be injected into your body, altering a response? It's our god given right to question things that do not make sense. And for others to condemn one who has a fear or other reasons for not conforming to the majority, this is not right. Personally, I am not a puppet, and have always been the one to not conform simply because the majority says so. Again, I respect your opinion and I would hope that others can respect mine.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Again, totally understand if your doctor has advised against it - every individual’s condition differs, but otherwise, it’s still the odds of dying from vaccination vs dying from covid, and the latter is the higher chance.

The odds of me contracting the virus was very high during last winter when family members GTG for the holidays and BD parties. None of the family members were vaccinated during that period. Since then most of our family members are vaccinated.

 

[dk168]

I read in an newspaper article today that Covid 19 could be causing erectile disfunction in men, and immediately thought it would probably help to sway more of the male anti-vaxxers to get vaccinated.

DK

 

[Dancing Fire]

I read in an newspaper article today that Covid 19 could be causing erectile disfunction in men, and immediately thought it would probably help to sway more of the male anti-vaxxers to get vaccinated.

DK

Mine haven't work for the past 30 yrs, so it has nothing to do with Covid.

 

[missy]

FYI: Here are a couple of recent journal article from the NEJM you might find informative.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr2105280

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107659

 

[MrsBlue]

@icy_jade - I can appreciate your opinion however, please try to understand those of us who fear the vaccine. We all must admit that it is in the experimental stage. Personally, I am glad that I have had the virus and have anti-bodies that will protect me just the same as receiving the vaccine. However, I can't imagine taking the vaccine - I am petrified. I do not take the flu shot, have passed on the shingles vaccine and many others. No, I am not an anti-vaxer - just quite fearful of the Covid vaccine. You may ask why? It may not make sense to you and others but I am deathly afraid of it and know in my gut that I would be "the one" who would die or have severe negative effects from the "vaccine" And again, some of us do not trust the information given to the public as it changes daily. And the fact that there's such a "push" - why wouldn't you question a drug to be injected into your body, altering a response? It's our god given right to question things that do not make sense. And for others to condemn one who has a fear or other reasons for not conforming to the majority, this is not right. Personally, I am not a puppet, and have always been the one to not conform simply because the majority says so. Again, I respect your opinion and I would hope that others can respect mine.

@Queenie60 I'm touched by the honesty of this post. I have loved ones who feel this way and I do not criticize them for their decision. They are afraid and arguments are simply not helpful.

If you don't mind me asking, is there any sort of information that would put you at ease about vaccines? If government involvement makes you uncomfortable, what would be a better alternative for giving people solid and trustworthy medical updates and information? Would you prefer local hospitals to handle it?

I, like most people, had a bunch of vaccines as a child. For college I had to get a measles booster and more recently I got a dtap. This seemed pretty normal to me and I never gave it much thought. In my view, vaccines are an old and trusted bit of medical technology and I never developed any fear or distrust of them.

I understand how the mRNA covid vaccine works but I was still cautious about getting it because it was so new. Once the vaccine became available to people in high-risk categories, I got it. The benefits far outweighed the risks in the context of my personal medical history. My dad died of covid, as did my friend's husband and mom, and the husband of an acquaintance. The first 3 were over 70 but the last was a perfectly healthy man in his early 50s. I would hate for other people to suffer from such devastating and preventable loss.

 

[voce]

@Queenie60 your fear is irrational. It's an emotional response.

I also had fear (related to what will happen to my baby if I get pregnant) earlier this year about what would happen, and my fears were related specifically to adenovirus-based vaccines like J&J. But, I became reassured once I did enough research.

Since you already have gotten COVID, then I believe that you getting the vaccine would be only incrementally beneficial to you, instead of critically beneficial, as for someone who never got the disease. And given the stronger side effects, for people who already have antibodies for COVID, it just so happens that for you, the incremental benefit is not worth taking it.

However, you'd be doing a great disservice to those who haven't gotten the disease, if you're trying to persuade on the basis of fear or misinformation. That is called fear mongering, and I saw this happen in politics, where people believe in outright lies passed onto them by media, and other loved ones who unwittingly believe in these lies.

The thing is, things like fear and belief, which are strong emotional responses, make people shut down the conversation because it makes people less open-minded. I really wish you and Dancing Fire and Musia would stop encouraging your mutual fears. As I've mentioned before, there's a fine line between having a healthy dose of skepticism about your government, and then there's paranoia.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I told myself I was not going to respond to this thread because I see nothing good coming out of it. However @Calliecake since you asked out of genuine curiosity, this is why I am not getting the COVID shot:

Previous experience with my son having a vaccine with an adverse event. I’ve talked about this several times on PS in other threads.

Piggybacking off my first reason, the government has given vaccine manufacturers complete legal immunity, you also cannot sue the doctor or nurse who gives the vaccine if something goes wrong.

Prior blood clot that caused a loss of partial vision in one eye. Obviously any reports about an even minuscule potential for a blood clot as a side effect from any medication is something I have to take very seriously.

Everyone in my immediate family has already had and recovered from COVID.

These are my own personal feelings, they may not make sense to others but I just ask that they not be picked apart and argued.

 

[adlgel]

I told myself I was not going to respond to this thread because I see nothing good coming out of it. However @Calliecake since you asked out of genuine curiosity, this is why I am not getting the COVID shot:

Previous experience with my son having a vaccine with an adverse event. I’ve talked about this several times on PS in other threads.

Piggybacking off my first reason, the government has given vaccine manufacturers complete legal immunity, you also cannot sue the doctor or nurse who gives the vaccine if something goes wrong.

Prior blood clot that caused a loss of partial vision in one eye. Obviously any reports about an even minuscule potential for a blood clot as a side effect from any medication is something I have to take very seriously.

Everyone in my immediate family has already had and recovered from COVID.

These are my own personal feelings, they may not make sense to others but I just ask that they not be picked apart and argued.

I sympathize with your history and can appreciate why you have chosen not to get the vaccine. But I struggle with the last sentence of your post. Asking for your feelings to not be picked apart and argued is one way of saying that your mind is made up and you aren’t open to considering new information that might be in conflict with your current beliefs.

And that concerns me on a broader scale, not specifically with you, as I believe that is how a lot of people are operating and I truly believe it has significantly hampered our ability to respond to the virus.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@adlgel, I wrote that because I have participated in several vaccine threads and at this point I’m just done with justifying and debate. Yes, MY mind is made up but these reasons are very specific to me personally and don’t apply to many individuals. I’m not here to tell anyone they should or shouldn’t get the shot. Callie said she was interested specifically in why people decided not to and the only reason I posted was to answer her directly.

I hope this doesn’t come off snarky, it’s not meant to. Understand that it is very disheartening to post legitimate concerns to have them met with ridiculous immature memes and other nonsense which is something I have experienced here before.

ETA: You said “current beliefs” but nothing I posted is based on a feeling or belief. I either posted facts or actual experiences, neither of which can be changed by debate or conversation.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

There is no space in the American ethos for people who are neither rabidly pro-vaccine nor rabidly anti-vaccine. There are a lot of people who have no moral objection to vaccination, but who do have concerns abut a brand new vaccine - and who do have some skepticism regarding both effectiveness and side-effects.

I don't fault anyone in that third bucket. Public health officials have stood firm in the messaging that the best vaccine is the first one you can get. But all the health professionals I have spoken to have indicated - explicitly, and privately - that their preference for themselves and their loved ones is one of the mRNA vaccines. And the mRNA vaccines are certainly more studied - which in my book makes automatically makes them better choices. So if you, one specific individual, could get the J&J today, and you could get an mRNA version next week, is the "best" vaccine for you truly the "first"? No public health official, no website, no news outlet, no public information source will give you a straight answer. And what if you're immunocompromised? Know that you tend toward more severe allergic reactions than most people? What if you're on specific drug regimens? What if you're pregnant or nursing? I can't possibly fault a person for being concerned by the fact that developed countries all have different default recommendations despite distributing identical or similar vaccines. Sure, you could talk to your personal health provider - but just how many people have timely access to GPs who know their medical histories? I do. Most PSers do, I’m sure. But that is a recommendation that is available to very few Americans and everyone knows it.

I'm vaccinated. I was not wholly comfortable with the choice, but my risk profile is such that me being vaccinated is likely to do more good than harm for myself and my nearest and dearest. I don't doubt that the lack of transparency in public health messaging is turning people away, making people consider their own risk profiles and arrive at different answers than I did. As long as they continue to wear masks when in public - I for one will not fault them for it.

Yes, I agree with all of the above.

To be clear, I am not anti-vaccine, but I do want to mention there are people who have had terrible reactions. There are also prominent physicians who are concerned with the severity and types of reactions that are they are seeing in certain patients.

Personally, it has been a real struggle. I would love to be vaccinated and get on with some semblance of a normal life. On the other hand, I have been advised....even warned....that taking a vaccine at this time could be damaging to me.

We all need to make our own decisions regarding our personal health and safety. I'm not about to judge anyone.