5.9 HCA - Crazy to buy?

[ConsumerWithQuestions]

HI all,

Wanted to get the PS community's thoughts on a stone I'm strongly considering. The stone has a 5.9 HCA. Here are its dimensions:

- 1.78 carat, H, eye-clean SI1, triple Ex
- Table - 59
- Depth - 62
- Crown - 36
- Pav - 41

I've seen the stone several times in person. Looks beautiful to my untrained eye. Idealscope shows some leakage, but the jeweler agrees that it appears to sparkle more than other better-performing stones. Jeweler is PS-preferred, I believe he is very trustworthy.

Thoughts? Should the 5.9 HCA be preclusive? Need to decide very soon, so any advice is much appreciated.

 

[ConsumerWithQuestions]

On another note, I've also seen a stone that looks great on the HCA but doesn't have an EX GIA cut grade. Here are its measurements:

- 1.73 carat, H, VS2, Very good cut (ex polish, ex sym)
- Table - 56
- Depth - 62.5
- Crown - 36
- Pav 40.4
- Med - slightly thick girdle

HCA score is .9, Ex in all categories except spread, which is VG. Thoughts on this stone, especially compared to the one referenced above? Should I be concerned about the GIA Very Good rating?

Thanks!

 

[Enerchi]

not an expert by any means, and there are others FAR more skilled than I at details... but my preference would be the 2nd stone. I like the smaller table and the depth is not bad just slightly deeper than ideal.

Have you seen the second stone as well? Can you view it prior to purchase? Is it possible to evaluate both with your own eyes? or perhaps have a video made to compare the two (No idea if your vendor offers that, just wondering...)

 

[ConsumerWithQuestions]

I have seen both stones, they both seem beautiful to me. Again, my eye is fairly untrained, so its a bit tough to tell. But they both had great sparkle. I have other tripple Ex options with phenomenal HCA ratings, but they're either a bit smaller (the 1.7 range), or have more visible inclusions.

Both stones I've posted about - the 1.78 GIA triple EX with the 5.9 HCA, and the 1.73 GIA VG with the .9 HCA - have minimal inclusions. Hope this helps.

 

[04diamond<3]

On another note, I've also seen a stone that looks great on the HCA but doesn't have an EX GIA cut grade. Here are its measurements:

- 1.73 carat, H, VS2, Very good cut (ex polish, ex sym)
- Table - 56
- Depth - 62.5
- Crown - 36
- Pav 40.4
- Med - slightly thick girdle

HCA score is .9, Ex in all categories except spread, which is VG. Thoughts on this stone, especially compared to the one referenced above? Should I be concerned about the GIA Very Good rating?

Thanks!

As long as you saw it and you like it...I'd go with this stone though, especially if there isn't much of a difference in the price...5.9 vs .9 is a drastic difference! I wouldn't be concerned with the VG especially with such a high score!

 

[ConsumerWithQuestions]

As it turns out, the 1.73 VG with the .9 HCA is quite a bit less expensive than the 1.78 Ex with the 5.9 HCA. On the 1.73, does the good HCA rating eliminate any concerns one might have over the cut? And 5.9 a poor enough HCA for me to automatically withdraw the stone from the contest? It does appear to be a beautiful stone.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

As it turns out, the 1.73 VG with the .9 HCA is quite a bit less expensive than the 1.78 Ex with the 5.9 HCA. On the 1.73, does the good HCA rating eliminate any concerns one might have over the cut? And 5.9 a poor enough HCA for me to automatically withdraw the stone from the contest? It does appear to be a beautiful stone.

I wouldn't consider a 5.9 stone on the HCA...there are too many other stones out there!

 

[JulieN]

Have you been able to look at it in front of a window, away from jeweler's lights? The H VS2 is a possibility but I would like you to compare it to a Tolkowsky-style. What is the lower girdle facet on it? Usually is 75 or 80.

 

[Rockdiamond]

As it turns out, the 1.73 VG with the .9 HCA is quite a bit less expensive than the 1.78 Ex with the 5.9 HCA. On the 1.73, does the good HCA rating eliminate any concerns one might have over the cut? And 5.9 a poor enough HCA for me to automatically withdraw the stone from the contest? It does appear to be a beautiful stone.

Here's an important thing to remember
1) congratulations!!! this should be a really happy purchase!!
2) HCA can predict a certain type of look in stones- and for those who love that look, it's a good tool..but- other people will choose the 5.7 stone based on it's appearance. There's a lot of taste involved.
I've never seen GIA grade a diamond EX cut grade that had obvious cut problems.
As far as trade acceptance, HCA is not a factor, so the EX cut grade stone is actually worth more.
the good news is that VG cut grade stones can be just as nice as EX to the naked eye in some cases, so if you love the VG and it's less, that sounds like a great deal.

 

[ConsumerWithQuestions]

"I've never seen GIA grade a diamond EX cut grade that had obvious cut problems."

This is what I was hoping to hear, but with all the talk on HCA scores here, I'm still a bit nervous about moving forward with a 5.9. Any additional thoughts?

 

[Gypsy]

"I've never seen GIA grade a diamond EX cut grade that had obvious cut problems."

This is what I was hoping to hear, but with all the talk on HCA scores here, I'm still a bit nervous about moving forward with a 5.9. Any additional thoughts?

Yeah. I would take that with a HUGE grain of salt. I'll post why in a minute.

 

[Gypsy]

David has a fondness for diamonds that other vendors would not stock. His tolerances for 'wonk' are greater than other vendors.

Here are two threads you should read as this is an expensive purchase and 30 minutes of reading may save you some concerns in the future.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-let-the-buyer-beware.41371/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-let-the-buyer-beware.41371/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-the-consumers-perspective-and-the-technologies.41629/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-the-consumers-perspective-and-the-technologies.41629/[/URL]

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Consumer- before gypsy tells you all about me:
A few years back, I purchased a diamond for my wife that scored about 5 on HCA. We've since sold it, and my wife is mad at me, but that's another story. We did not sell it because it was in any way bad to look at.
I have also bought her stones that scored below 1.5 on HCA- I can find beauty in both.
There are times I'll pay more for a stone because it's super ideal, and other times I love a bargain on a GIA EX cut grade that's not "supe ideal"
Your eyes will NOT lie to you- if you prefer one stone over the other- after having looked in different lighting, you have your own answer, and all anyone here can do is give you their opinion.

 

[Rockdiamond]

David has a fondness for diamonds that other vendors would not stock. His tolerances for 'wonk' are greater than other vendors.

Here are two threads you should read as this is an expensive purchase and 30 minutes of reading may save you some concerns in the future.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-let-the-buyer-beware.41371/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-let-the-buyer-beware.41371/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-the-consumers-perspective-and-the-technologies.41629/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-the-consumers-perspective-and-the-technologies.41629/[/URL]

Hi Gypsy- do you consider "Crafted by Infinity Diamonds" to be "wonk"?
How many other PS vendors have an actual inventory the size of ours?
If they buy exponentially less stones, they can't buy "wonk" can they?
What if people love wonk?

 

[Gypsy]

I have also bought her stones that scored below 1.5 on HCA- I can find beauty in both.

There is nothing wrong with under 1.5. It's pass fail largely. With a score of 2-3 being maybes.

And I didn't bash you David. I simply linked him to old threads so he could get the benefit of MANY vendor's opinions, not just yours. So... back off on challenging me please.

 

[ConsumerWithQuestions]

Gypsy - Helpful as always.

RockDiamond - Thanks for providing the opposite side of the coin.

Since I need to make up my mind tomorrow as to whether I'm going to take one of these stones or keep looking, any additional input would be appreciated. As I said, I loved the look and performance of both stones. Saw the 1.78 carat under the idealscope and it looked decent but not incredible, didn't see the 1.73 under an idealscope.

Having read the threads provided by Gypsy (very useful), my main inquiry is whether a GIA Ex cut speaks for itself, or whether I should put more stock in the HCA rating. Thanks!

 

[Dancing Fire]

i would pick the 1.73ct...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I have seen both stones, they both seem beautiful to me. Again, my eye is fairly untrained, so its a bit tough to tell. But they both had great sparkle. I have other tripple Ex options with phenomenal HCA ratings, but they're either a bit smaller (the 1.7 range), or have more visible inclusions.

Both stones I've posted about - the 1.78 GIA triple EX with the 5.9 HCA, and the 1.73 GIA VG with the .9 HCA - have minimal inclusions. Hope this helps.

I would absolutely post the other 1.7 XXX stones that have good HCA scores and no visible inclusions. I wouldn't buy either of these you have posted unless there are no other possible choices of diamonds or vendors. You did not list the diameters of the stones you posted, so we have no idea how they really compare to your other options as to face-up size appearance.

This is a big decision and a lot of money, so I really encourage you to post the other stones. Please also post the magnified images of the stones and idealscope images. Those will help on the stones that don't have as good HCA scores.

 

[Ella]

Ladies and gentlemen, please remove the snark from the thread. There is no need to call out others whom you disagree with.

Simply state your position or point WITHOUT namecalling or pointing fingers. You are more effective that way and newbies are smart enough to figure out on their own who they trust.

To trade members, I promise you will receive more respect and business here by leaving the personal attacks off the thread. Give your information and bow out.

ENOUGH.

 

[kenny]

Don't trust vendors who repeatedly bash cut quality criteria and tools.
They likely sell poorly cut stones, and the tools expose this.
Buy from vendors who endorse and use cut quality tools.

Reject rounds scoring over 2 on HCA.
Get Idealscope pic on those scoring under 2.
Compare the IS pic to this chart.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

 

[JulieN]

I don't understand why the 5.9 stone is still being considered. You have a second stone that you like equally that is cheaper!

Also, do not discount the 1.7 stones with excellent HCA scores. The two in the OP have 36* crown angles, which reduces spread.

 

[justginger]

I don't understand why the 5.9 stone is still being considered. You have a second stone that you like equally that is cheaper!

Also, do not discount the 1.7 stones with excellent HCA scores. The two in the OP have 36* crown angles, which reduces spread.

Ditto this, the 5.9 HCA stone should have been scrapped immediately. Poor scoring and more expensive to boot. I'd be keen to see the 1.7 XXX stones, as they may appear just as large thanks to a slightly larger spread. As DS said, some additional photos would greatly assist in assessing which stone has the best performance.

 

[Rockdiamond]

What you guys don't understand is that some people will pick a high scoring GIA EX specifically because of how it looks - which is different than one scoring lower on HCA- bot not worse to some observers
After all, GIA graded it EX cut grade
And they saw the stone

 

[justginger]

What you guys don't understand is that some people will pick a high scoring GIA EX specifically because of how it looks - which is different than one scoring lower on HCA- bot not worse to some observers
After all, GIA graded it EX cut grade
And they saw the stone

I've not knowingly seen any high HCA scoring diamonds in person that I liked the look of. It is of course a possibility, just not one I've experienced. I always dispense advice with the caveat that it is based on my personal opinion. I have no other background from which to speak.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

When a person views an average cut stone in jewelry store lighting, they are going to usually think it looks great. Jewelry store lighting is the worst environment to judge diamonds because almost nowhere in real life will have that lighting. So I am not surprised when someone says that all the stones looked good to them. This forum exists as far as I know, to educate people on well cut stones so that they get the best quality stone for their money. My original diamond is beautiful. I got many compliments on it over the years. That's great. But would I buy it today? No way!!! It has a 60+++ table and a very tiny and low crown. But it is F color and very bright. It will go to one of my girls, so I hope they aren't as discriminating as I am with diamonds!

So OP, we are just honestly trying to help you get the best stone possible for your money. I hope you will post the stones with the better HCA scores that are eyeclean.

 

[audball]

When a person views an average cut stone in jewelry store lighting, they are going to usually think it looks great. Jewelry store lighting is the worst environment to judge diamonds because almost nowhere in real life will have that lighting. So I am not surprised when someone says that all the stones looked good to them. This forum exists as far as I know, to educate people on well cut stones so that they get the best quality stone for their money. My original diamond is beautiful. I got many compliments on it over the years. That's great. But would I buy it today? No way!!! It has a 60+++ table and a very tiny and low crown. But it is F color and very bright. It will go to one of my girls, so I hope they aren't as discriminating as I am with diamonds!

So OP, we are just honestly trying to help you get the best stone possible for your money. I hope you will post the stones with the better HCA scores that are eyeclean.

When it comes down to it, you're new at this. You don't know what your eyes are seeing and when there are tools available to ensure you're getting amazing cut that will impress you in ALL lighting conditions, and not JUST in the tricky jewelry store lights that make even crap look good.

 

[Rockdiamond]

This person did NOT look at an "Average" cut stone, they looked at a diamond that GIA graded Ex cut grade stone.
It's so easy to tell others to spend more to buy something YOU like better- but who is that helping?

Relating stories of poorly cut stones that someone owned to a GIA EX cut grade is misleading at best.
Same for posting charts showing IS charts that have NO RELATION whatsoever to this person's situation.

If you read what I wrote to the OP, it was to purchase the stone they loved more- so much the better if it costs less.
IMO a GIA VG cut graded diamond can present an awesome value- even if we can point to the fact an EX is cut better.


justginger- it's more than likely you have seen some stones that score poorly on HCA- and very possible you liked them.
People are not walking around with CA/PA Depth and table numbers.


Having said all that- I agree HCA has a useful purpose.
However, just like ASET it can also be used in a way that hurts consumers on these boards

 

[Dancing Fire]

When a person views an average cut stone in jewelry store lighting, they are going to usually think it looks great. Jewelry store lighting is the worst environment to judge diamonds because almost nowhere in real life will have that lighting. So I am not surprised when someone says that all the stones looked good to them. This forum exists as far as I know, to educate people on well cut stones so that they get the best quality stone for their money. My original diamond is beautiful. I got many compliments on it over the years. That's great. But would I buy it today? No way!!! It has a 60+++ table and a very tiny and low crown. But it is F color and very bright. It will go to one of my girls, so I hope they aren't as discriminating as I am with diamonds!

So OP, we are just honestly trying to help you get the best stone possible for your money. I hope you will post the stones with the better HCA scores that are eyeclean.

those are the worse,big table with a flat top... my wife had one so i had it recut into ideal proportion.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

When a person views an average cut stone in jewelry store lighting, they are going to usually think it looks great. Jewelry store lighting is the worst environment to judge diamonds because almost nowhere in real life will have that lighting. So I am not surprised when someone says that all the stones looked good to them. This forum exists as far as I know, to educate people on well cut stones so that they get the best quality stone for their money. My original diamond is beautiful. I got many compliments on it over the years. That's great. But would I buy it today? No way!!! It has a 60+++ table and a very tiny and low crown. But it is F color and very bright. It will go to one of my girls, so I hope they aren't as discriminating as I am with diamonds!

So OP, we are just honestly trying to help you get the best stone possible for your money. I hope you will post the stones with the better HCA scores that are eyeclean.

those are the worse,big table with a flat top... my wife had one so i had it recut into ideal proportion.

I did have the diamond my mother gave me recut, but I was uncertain about doing this one because of an inclusion. It's 1 ct., so losing a lot of weight has some negatives, too. But I might still do it.

 

[mdot]

Sorry for the threadjack (not my intention), but just wondering about the previous posters link to the spread of the GIA "EX" cut and deepness, etc. Would the Spread of the Excellent cut be narrowed some if the stone came in with a good HCA (say, under 2) and a SARIN report of AGS0 (ideal) proportions, and Med-Slightly Thick girdle? Or is it possible a diamond such as this could still really have a VG cut?

Thanks! (and, sorry again for asking in someone else's thread)