4 GIA XXX rounds jeweler is recommending

[tristanking]

I wrote on another post asking if a GIA XXX grading was enough to warrant a high quality stone. I learned a lot from everyones posts and definitely now realize I need to know more than that if I want to assure it is a great diamond - AGS rating, view from Idealscope,Aset, and H&A, etc.
That being said, my local jeweler did recommend 4 stones for me to consider, and I thought I would ask for folks opinion of these. I know I don't have pictures or the above mentioned analyses I would need to get a final and thorough take, but just curious if the numbers on these look good and at least seem like a solid starting point.

1) 2.02 G VS2 GIA XXX $26,500
http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1229234458

Depth: 62
Table: 58
Crown Angle: 35
Crown Height: 15
Pavillion Angle: 41
Pavillion Depth: 43.5
Star Length: 50
Lower Half: 75
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Clarity: Crystal, Cloud, Needle
Measurements: 8.07 - 8.10 x 5.01mm

2) 2.06 G VS2 GIA XXX $26,800
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2206524225&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

Depth: 62.5
Table: 58
Crown Angle: 35.5
Crown Height: 15
Pavillion Angle: 41.2
Pavillion Depth: 43.5
Star Length: 50
Lower Half: 80
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Clarity: Cloud, Crystal
Measurements: 8.09 - 8.13 x 5.07mm

3) 2.01 G VS2 GIA XXX $27,000
http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=7228250731

Depth: 61.9
Table: 57
Crown Angle: 33.5
Crown Height: 14
Pavillion Angle: 41.2
Pavillion Depth: 44
Star Length: 50
Lower Half: 75
Girdle: Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4%
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Clarity: Crystal, Cloud, Feather, Needle
Measurements: 8.06 - 8.11 x 5.00mm

4) 2.13 G VS1 GIA XXX $29,000
http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5171633592

Depth: 61.4
Table: 56
Crown Angle: 34.5
Crown Height: 15
Pavillion Angle: 40.8
Pavillion Depth: 43
Star Length: 55
Lower Half: 80
Girdle: Medium, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Clarity: Crystal, Pinpoint
Measurements: 8.25 - 8.28 x 5.08mm

 

[gm89uk]

I only like the last one (number 4), and if I had to pick a second one, it would be the firs. The two in the middle have had proportions. With that size and that kinda money, you really should get images and idealscope/ASET pictures.

Also are you restricted to that jeweller? We could help you try find a stone within budget that is a top performer

 

[Tourmaline]

Number 4 is the only safe bet.

 

[OoohShiny]

Put the numbers for each diamond through the HCA tool in the tabs at the top of the forum and tell us what each comes back as.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Based on the specs I'd go with #4

 

[tristanking]

i placed the specs into the HCA and the results were as follows:
Diamond 1: 2.5
Diamond 2: 4.6
Diamond 3: 2.6
Diamond 4: 1.2

I know the HCA has its limitations, so I dont want this result to be the final say.

The jeweler said he has a Hearts on Fire scope and all of them have a perfect pattern when looked at through it, and said he is happy to have me look through it. His final email to me regarding these diamonds said there is no evidence the tightened standards of some of the branded ideal cut stones have a more beautiful cut than the stones he has selected for me, which he said are close to or within those standards anyway. He said it's a marketing pitch. He also said he has at his office a beautiful 1.5 ct AGS 000 yet GIA rated it Very Good, and he has argued with GIA about it and they wont budge. Reaffirming his opinion that GIA is the toughest grader.

Thought i would share his thoughts prior to me making my final decision on who to work with.

I do not have to work with the jeweler. i was hoping to work with someone local but am definitely considering WhiteFlash, CBI, Brian Gavin, or GOG. The downside is there is real no way for me to know if my jeweler is right and that these diamonds look as good as some of the ideal diamonds with the vendors I just mentioned. I would have to have all of them sitting next to each other in person and that cant happen since i cant buy them all and take them to his office to compare. dont have the money to make those purchases and not sure he would allow me to do that anyway. who knows.

I am sorting through the pros and cons of the big 4 (WF, BG, CBI, GOG) from what I have gathered online and may make a post asking for thoughts on the differences between them and if my views are accurate. working on that pro and con list now. spending a lot of time researching this stuff but its a big purchase for me and a rock that my girl will hopefully wear forever, so i want to get it right.

 

[kb1gra]

What you are paying for with some of these vendors is the service - reviewing stones, photographing them, talking to you about them, comparing them, etc all take time and require equipment and staff which is not free.

Your jeweler likely hasn't even seen those stones he just pulled some from the database and will call them in if you want one.

We already explained how a stone can get a GiA very good and an AGS 000. GIA does no light performance evaluation. They look up the averaged numbers for angles, etc in a table, and slap a grade on it.

AGS does ray tracing, which allows the stone to be evaluated as the total combination of angles and proportions that leads to their cut grade. You're jeweler simply doesn't understand this - there are TONs of GIA excellent stones that would NOT make AGS000. That makes AGS the strictest grader, not GIA. His example is one of the few stones that GIA penalizes that AGS does not because actual light performance evaluation reveals that the stone performs fine. Like all diamonds there are different flavors of AGS000 and that stone represents one of them, likely, that was a style of cutting that had a moment a few years ago.

In diamonds and in service you get what you pay for. You pay 10% more and you get the service, the professional evaluation, all the images etc that prove the stone is as good as they say it is. Or you can keep arguing that your guy knows what he's doing and keeps telling you this stuff and therefore he's gotta be right. I think it's funny that he tells you it's all marketing when that's exactly what he's doing - reliance you its marketing so you buy his stuff and not somebody else's.

I have dealt with whiteflash and have always been pleased that even though I'm not a good budget customer they patiently send me photos, thoughts, comparisons, suggestions, and they have a flawless return and upgrade policy. I prefer to give my money to honest vendors who stand behind their product. I can save money and time by buying online. So why wouldn't I?

There are other vendors that I like too. For what you're looking for, which according to your other thread is the best cut round your money can buy, I'm still not clear on why you're wasting time with this guy and trying to fact check when the online listings from the vendors discussed here speak for themselves and already contain all the data that says they are selling what you want to buy.

This is getting long so I'll cut it off here. If you have a particular setting in mind that may be the tipping point. Go with whoever also sells the setting you want and you're done.

 

[denverappraiser]

All 4 of the dealers you've mentioned are prepared to do 'in person' presentations if you want. You never mentioned where you are but, given the budget involved and your concerns about seeing things live before you pony up a deposit, perhaps a bit of travelling is called for.

WF has a retail store in Houston. You can go look at things there for free.
BG operates out of Houston as well, although they don't have a store. I"m pretty sure they have an office or can otherwise arrange a location for an in-person presentation if you ask.
CBI sells through dozens of dealers throughout the country and, other than sales taxes, it costs the same no matter where you go. Any one of them can arrange to show you anything in their inventory. I"m pretty sure there's a list of locations on their website.
GOG has a store in Long Island NY. I"m 100% confident they would be happy to see you.

 

[Passion4diamonds]

Have you put your desired specs into the search engine here on pricescope yet? See what stones you're interested in by the top 4 vendors pop up in the engine and go from there. We can also recommend stones in your parameters too.

 

[FancyIntense]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

 

[tristanking]

Thanks guys. Some solid feedback and some funny one liners. Definitely not interested in arguing with anyone on a diamond forum, simply thought sharing what I'm being told by a jeweler would be helpful as others would have the chance to chime in and give their opinion on what he said. My goal was to collect information from a variety of sources and then determine what route to take. Each individual, whether it be the jeweler, someone on this board, a cutter, a vendor, etc has their own opinion and information they believe backs up their positon /passion. I see value in hearing from all sides and sources. Thanks much for the input.

 

[gm89uk]

If non of those vendors are close by you could search for your nearest "hearts on fire" store which are also super ideals (which are not recommended on here as they are far over priced and not as transparent in what you get in terms of clarity and colour) and they should give you an idea of what to expect from superideals. They also may be able to show you non ideal diamonds to compare them to. That may be a good starting point for you to have something to refer to rather than taking points of opinion.

Remember to compare in a non ideal light environment to really see the difference between super ideals and non ideal cut diamonds.

In my opinion, light performance is definitely a proven objective and measurable science, whether your jeweller has an opinion about it or not. It is of course in the eyes of the individual whether one thinks better performing diamonds in terms of light performance, is a more beautiful diamond, or a negligible difference. Many here think so, your jeweller does not, I think you should see for yourself.

 

[tristanking]

I am letting my local jeweler know I'm going to pursue other options and I will be getting something from either cbi,whiteflash, gog, or Brian Gavin. The ability to have access to a wide range of tools and pics prior to making the purchase is a huge benefit and a primary reason. I like their reputations and feel confident I will find my perfect stone from them. I will ask to get a GIA cert just because the dual cert makes me feel warm and fuzzy (being able to say xxx and 000 is important to me) and hopefully both entities agree on not just on cut, but on clarity and color too.
Should I post pics of options I'm looking at on this site or with individuals associated with some of those companies on the forum is that a no no?

 

[Snowdrop13]

Definitely post pics of your choices- trade members are not allowed to comment on their own or other vendors specific stones.