32K budget: Should I pay for color or clarity?

[Marcanj]

Hello there,

I've reading through Pricescope posts for awhile and I decided to finally created my own account. I am doing some diamond research as I am planning to propose to my girlfriend in 2012. I would really appreciate your help! The more I research the more confused I become about where I should make the compromise in terms of a better color or clarity.

Now let me start off by telling you a bit about my girlfriend. She is a someone who knows what she wants in the sense that she loves diamonds that sparkle. What girl doesn't, right? Anyway, I've gathered from the hints she has made that she loves round, brilliant cuts, and she would be happy with anything over 2 carats. She comes from a fairly wealthy family and her mother has a 3+carat solitaire ring, that my girlfriend swoons over all the time. Although she would be happy with a larger diamond, I think ultimately it's better to aim for quality rather than just size in considering my budget.

My question is essentially would it better for me to purchase, for example, a 2.14 carat G VS2 that has a 1.5 HCR, or a 2.25 carat F SI1 with a 3.5 HCR? I don't think I feel comfortable going any lower than a G color because I am planning on buying the ring online. I have mostly been looking on BN, but I did look at JamesAllen and WF as well, but both sites seem to have a) less selection, and b)higher prices based on the specs. Therefore, I am not going to be able to view an actual image of the diamond because BN doesn't provide photos. I would however like to, with your help, try and maximize my chances of ordering a diamond that reflects light well. Also, if you feel that I may be mistaken in saying that BN seems to have a better price/specs ratio (based on the GIA and AGS certificates) then please feel free to enlighten me.

Thank you all for your help in advance!

 

[AprilBaby]

Cut is king! I'm sure the experts will be in shortly to help. I would take the smaller diamond well cut than the larger one. SOrry, misread your post, but I still would take the smaller over the larger. The second has a 3.5 HCA. I would sacrifice color for clarity.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My limit is also VS2, so I would go to whatever color I needed to get it. However, there are tons of people who buy SI1's here, but I would never even consider buying an SI1 from BN due to them not having magnified images of the stones. I'd be a little uncomfortable with VS2 from BN, actually. I think G VS2 is a really nice balance in color and clarity actually. I'll take a look and see what is available. You have a great budget.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Not a lot to choose from with those specs unfortunately. But I would check with GOG on this one and explain what your budget is and see if they can come any closer. They are great about calling in stones, too, and can take magnified images for you, check light performance, etc. Plus they have a lifetime trade-in policy in case you ever want to go for a 3 ct.!

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8175/

Incidentally, they also have a 2.35 G SI1 around the same price:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8952/ you'd have to ask Jonathan to examine it for you to be sure how eyeclean it is from various distances (and from the sides).

 

[LizH]

If cut is your highest priority, you are buying a stone sight-unseen, and you have no actual diamond pictures to view ahead of time, then I would definitley recommend sticking to a AGS certificate as they have a more narrow margin in cut grade parameters in comparison to GIA.

 

[blinglover78]

this might be a nice option.
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02218064

 

[chel180]

She is a someone who knows what she wants in the sense that she loves diamonds that sparkle. What girl doesn't, right?

As mentioned above if you want to go for sparkle then you have to go for the best cut you can get. The better the cut= the better the sparkle.

I would say that you usually get what you pay for and while BN might be cheaper in the first place on paper it may not necessarily be in the long run.

Have you seen these?
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1422990.asp
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2696792.htm

 

[Marcanj]

Thank you so much for all the responses. I forgot to mention in my first post, but I completely understand the importance of cut, and I am only looking at GIA and AGS Excellent/Ideal cuts. I understand that it is hard to judge having not seen the diamond, but I'm confused as to how a diamond that is rated Excellent by GIA cannot be "sparkly". Isn't the whole purpose of GIA and AGS best-graded stones, in terms of cut, to be the category of stone with the most amount of light-reflection? I guess what I'm trying to say is, what are these certificates worth if even the most excellent graded cuts are not full of brilliance and sparkle?

Also, in considering that I want to spend over 30K online, would you recommend that I favor trying to find a stone from a site other than Bluenile?

Chel180, could you please tell me what you mean by "BN may not be cheaper in the long-run"? Do you recomment Whiteflash and JamesAllen over BN? If so, why?

Again, I really appreciate your help. I've been saving up for this purchase so I want to get the best "bang for my buck" so to speak.

 

[Marcanj]

Do you think Medium Blue or Faint fluorescence will make a G-color diamond look hazy or milky? I heard that this is possible in the higher color grades, but I've found a few diamonds that seem to be a good deal because of their fluorescence. Also, would you recommend that I only search for diamonds that are graded as Excellent on the HCA tool in order to ensure brilliance, or would a "Very good" graded cut according to the HCA tool be considered very sparkly as well?

Thank you!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

GIA Excellent is absolutely fine. We are just suggesting sites like James Allen, WhiteFlash, and Good Old Gold because they show magnified images of their in-house diamonds as well as idealscope images. They can look at the stone and tell you if it is eyeclean up close and from the sides. You can't get that from BN. You pay a little more at WF and GOG, but they have the best trade-in policies in the event that option is ever needed.

I would absolutely look at diamonds with blue fluorescence! I just bought one with strong blue that had no negative effects (most do not), so the key there is to have a vendor who can examine the stone for you in different lighting. Here is the video where GOG looked at some stones for me, and the one with strong blue (and G color) is on the far left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwiM3COzjFM&feature=BFa&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA&lf=plcp

You want the HCA score to preferably be 2.0 or less, although there are some exceptions in the 2 range. The overall score should be excellent, but it is okay if 1 or 2 areas say very good. Even the most perfect ideal cut stones usually get a very good for spread.

 

[slg47]

this article explains the differences in GIA Ex cut grade

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

which is why we recommend further analysis of GIA Ex stones. also, diamonds with fluor very very rarely have a hazy appearance, and usually only with strong/very strong. you can always ask the vendor if they have the stone in-house, or get it shipped to you and take to an appraiser within the return period.

if you are planning to upgrade, it might be worth checking into a vendor with an upgrade policy that works for you. I think with BN you only have 1 year to upgrade and this only applies to their signature ideal stones.

can you see some diamond colors in person? see if there is a hearts on fire dealer near you and ask to see stones in 2+ ct in F, G, and H colors. also ask to see them in different lighting (it is hard to tell color from the spotlighting and that is not the environment you will be viewing your diamond in most of the time). you may be OK with H color.

 

[blinglover78]

BN has a new policy now in regards to upgrades. Upgrade policy is no longer for just signature diamonds but all other diamonds as well. I think this started in Jan 2012.

 

[Marcanj]

Thank you for the advice. What do you think about this diamond? I checked the HCA tool and it came to a 1.4. The only thing I'm worried about is the fluorescence.


http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?saction=PAGE&startIndex=0#diamonds_pid=LD02401545


Or this:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?saction=PAGE&startIndex=20#diamonds_pid=LD02261420

 

[JulieN]

Don't worry about medium fluorescence.

 

[Chuckenator]

If you like fluorescence then you can get a highly graded color. I just recently purchased the diamond below (and proposed last weekend) with the following:

GIA certified and purchased from BlueNile
2.01 carat
D color
Excellent cut (0.6 HCA score)
VS2 clarity
approximately $32k

Pics of the ring below:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-01-carat-d-vs2-excellent-cut-hca-0-6-sbf.171395/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-01-carat-d-vs2-excellent-cut-hca-0-6-sbf.171395/[/URL]

I really, really like the strong blue fluorescence and feel it makes the diamond a bit more unique or quirky. Because of the SBF, the diamond was signficantly cheaper than a similar stat ring w/o fluorescence (approximately $8-10k cheaper). The girlfriend loves it, and she thinks the SBF is cool. It's a lot of fun to take it into the sunlight, see the blue shade, and then cover the suns rays with your hand and watching it turn icy white.

Anyway, the point is that a big factor in your price could be if you like fluorescence or not.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thank you for the advice. What do you think about this diamond? I checked the HCA tool and it came to a 1.4. The only thing I'm worried about is the fluorescence.


http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?saction=PAGE&startIndex=0#diamonds_pid=LD02401545


Or this:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?saction=PAGE&startIndex=20#diamonds_pid=LD02261420

I'd choose the G over the H, personally. You aren't really getting a discount on faint fluorescence anyway. It is almost like it has none. You get a little discount on medium blue and a very nice discount on strong blue. My stone had about a 20% discount as compared to similar GIA XXX stones without the fluor.

 

[Dreamer_D]

For that amount of money I would not want to "compromise" anything. I would get a G VS2, it would be big enough for me. And only GIA Ex or AGS0 for cut in a modern round brilliant.

 

[Marcanj]

Wow Chuckenator, your fiancée's ring looks wonderful, but I'm surprised how dark it becomes in the sunlight. Is that normal for only strong fluorescence or medium fluorescent rings as well?

I think I should be able to find a 2+ G VS2 without necessarily a strong fluorescence for my budget. Do you think that I could find a diamond with those specs in the 2.15-2.30 range that is graded excellent on the HCA scale? I really don't feel comfortable moving down to a lower color or clarity.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Wow Chuckenator, your fiancée's ring looks wonderful, but I'm surprised how dark it becomes in the sunlight. Is that normal for only strong fluorescence or medium fluorescent rings as well?

I think I should be able to find a 2+ G VS2 without necessarily a strong fluorescence for my budget. Do you think that I could find a diamond with those specs in the 2.15-2.30 range that is graded excellent on the HCA scale? I really don't feel comfortable moving down to a lower color or clarity.

You might be able to find one that size. The HCA is one tool among many. If the stone is a GIA Ex then I would consider it even if it does not score under 2, if images and ideal scope can be provided, or if you can see the stone in person.

 

[SweetAsscher]

Wow Chuckenator, your fiancée's ring looks wonderful, but I'm surprised how dark it becomes in the sunlight. Is that normal for only strong fluorescence or medium fluorescent rings as well?

I don't think it's dark bcuz of the florescence. I think it's dark in sunlight due to the cut quality. My diamond has no florescence and also darkens in spot lighting or direct sunlight, albeit with crazy rainbow sparkles.

 

[distracts]

Wow Chuckenator, your fiancée's ring looks wonderful, but I'm surprised how dark it becomes in the sunlight. Is that normal for only strong fluorescence or medium fluorescent rings as well?

That is normal for all ideal-cut diamonds, and many not-ideal ones besides. If you search PS on diamonds going dark, there are a billion threads about it, some with very scientific explanations of why it happens. Chuckenator's particular picture is blurry and makes it look worse than it is - in reality though diamonds go dark in the sun, they still sparkle like crazy.

 

[Chuckenator]

Wow Chuckenator, your fiancée's ring looks wonderful, but I'm surprised how dark it becomes in the sunlight. Is that normal for only strong fluorescence or medium fluorescent rings as well?

I don't think it's dark bcuz of the florescence. I think it's dark in sunlight due to the cut quality. My diamond has no florescence and also darkens in spot lighting or direct sunlight, albeit with crazy rainbow sparkles.

The cut is GIA excellent and the HCA is 0.6. So, the cut quality is high, but as others have said high quality cuts may cause it to look darker in sunlight. I think the SBF actually helps with that because instead of having a dark diamond, you have a shiny blue one. However, in general I think it's just poor picture taking by me - I didn't spend a lot of time figuring out the best angle and was using my iPhone.

 

[Enerchi]

Tough. I'd go cut first - that's where the sparkle comes from.
Depending on what clarity you are looking at, personally I'm good with VS1/VS2 even an eye clean SI1 (but discuss your version of "eye clean" with your vendor, as to distance you want to be eye clean from...).
My colour preferences are pretty wide - I own a E/F/E 3 stone but love down to J/K's!

At your price point, I'd be going for size!

 

[AndyDiamond]

this article explains the differences in GIA Ex cut grade

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

which is why we recommend further analysis of GIA Ex stones. also, diamonds with fluor very very rarely have a hazy appearance, and usually only with strong/very strong. you can always ask the vendor if they have the stone in-house, or get it shipped to you and take to an appraiser within the return period.

if you are planning to upgrade, it might be worth checking into a vendor with an upgrade policy that works for you. I think with BN you only have 1 year to upgrade and this only applies to their signature ideal stones.

can you see some diamond colors in person? see if there is a hearts on fire dealer near you and ask to see stones in 2+ ct in F, G, and H colors. also ask to see them in different lighting (it is hard to tell color from the spotlighting and that is not the environment you will be viewing your diamond in most of the time). you may be OK with H color.

What does the abbreviation NT and SD stand for in the article under the category of "Make"?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Andy...I am not seeing any abbreviations in the part about Make.

 

[SweetAsscher]

Wow Chuckenator, your fiancée's ring looks wonderful, but I'm surprised how dark it becomes in the sunlight. Is that normal for only strong fluorescence or medium fluorescent rings as well?

I don't think it's dark bcuz of the florescence. I think it's dark in sunlight due to the cut quality. My diamond has no florescence and also darkens in spot lighting or direct sunlight, albeit with crazy rainbow sparkles.

The cut is GIA excellent and the HCA is 0.6. So, the cut quality is high, but as others have said high quality cuts may cause it to look darker in sunlight. I think the SBF actually helps with that because instead of having a dark diamond, you have a shiny blue one. However, in general I think it's just poor picture taking by me - I didn't spend a lot of time figuring out the best angle and was using my iPhone.

Exactly. High cut quality = dark diamond in direct sun.
Sorry if I wasn't very clear in my last post.

 

[AndyDiamond]

Andy...I am not seeing any abbreviations in the part about Make.

It is under Section D. Expert Details. It is under the column heading "Make".

 

[0-0-0]

this article explains the differences in GIA Ex cut grade

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

which is why we recommend further analysis of GIA Ex stones. also, diamonds with fluor very very rarely have a hazy appearance, and usually only with strong/very strong. you can always ask the vendor if they have the stone in-house, or get it shipped to you and take to an appraiser within the return period.

if you are planning to upgrade, it might be worth checking into a vendor with an upgrade policy that works for you. I think with BN you only have 1 year to upgrade and this only applies to their signature ideal stones.

can you see some diamond colors in person? see if there is a hearts on fire dealer near you and ask to see stones in 2+ ct in F, G, and H colors. also ask to see them in different lighting (it is hard to tell color from the spotlighting and that is not the environment you will be viewing your diamond in most of the time). you may be OK with H color.

What does the abbreviation NT and SD stand for in the article under the category of "Make"?

NT = Near Tolkowsky
SD = Steep Deep

 

[0-0-0]

Wow Chuckenator, your fiancée's ring looks wonderful, but I'm surprised how dark it becomes in the sunlight. Is that normal for only strong fluorescence or medium fluorescent rings as well?

I think I should be able to find a 2+ G VS2 without necessarily a strong fluorescence for my budget. Do you think that I could find a diamond with those specs in the 2.15-2.30 range that is graded excellent on the HCA scale? I really don't feel comfortable moving down to a lower color or clarity.

As others have said, well cut diamonds tend to go "dark" in direct light. An easy way to "fix" that is to just put something (tree, lamp shade, etc.) between the stone and the source of the direct light to diffuse the light. Here's a picture of an I color with strong blue fluorescence on a bright day, under some trees.

 

[Mrs.W 514]

Brian Gavin has a beautiful "Blue" line as well as some amazing non fluorescing diamonds.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/