3 questions about GOG (and 2 are about their rings...)...

[Regular Guy]

Hi, Friends,

I ask this so I can be less of a bother, and more of a help, in directing others on Pricescope to options. Is that a stupid reason to create this post?

If so...please ignore.

Otherwise...

Item A (two questions)...Knowing what they know without asking them.

1) Let's take another vendor we know...oh...say...Whiteflash. Apart from their available virtual options, WF offers ACAs and Expert Selection. I figure their ACA's have been internally screened...and I don't have to ask them too much about them. With their Expert Selection...I might want to ask them...how good they think they are. I will want to listen to nuances in their description, and I may be concerned about how well I pose the question. Doing this, I will actually hope to better retrieve the info I need, over what an appraiser could possibly tell me, that has no universe of comparables, whatsoever. I may wish to ultimately take advantage of the savings I could get with the Expert Selection...but as you read with me here, this will have taken some work!

With Jon...he's talked to me personally and publicly about a trinity line he may one day set up. Meanwhile, if you want to know which one he likes vs ones he finds acceptable to offer, but he kind of likes others...you have to call him, don't you? And, as above, ask the smart questions. Right?

2) OK, this one's about rings. Today, I went to check on a price, and it says: "This form is not working." But...it's never working, right? I've been here now 4 plus years, and it's never worked has it? If you want to know what a setting costs, you have to call, don't you. Web searchers can be peeved at that. But...it is what it is. Maybe they don't want you comparing, etc. For now (as always with them, I think), if you want to know the cost of your final output, I do think you have to call them. Right?

Item B - Knowing what you know!

3) So...I shouldn't have to give them a hard time (see my comments here) in my recommendations to others if their options are competitively priced, and such. Are they? Maybe shoppers here who have compared can tell me! For example, I used to think Excel Diamonds made some of their money in their settings, where they were maybe more affordable in other places. With GOG, this has just been a question for me. Maybe people who are kind enough to respond will help.

Jonathan, no offence. I hope you might see this thread in the spirit that it's intended. You're welcome to respond, too!

Regards,

 

[Ellen]

Hi Ira, I''ll take a stab.


1) As to which stones Jon likes vs. which ones he finds acceptable, this can only be a guess (only he knows for sure). I would tend to think he likes all the stones he offers (personal preference aside), or he wouldn''t offer them (he''s pretty picky). Those that would fall in the "acceptable" level would be very, very few I think.


Anyone who knows what to look for in a diamond, will know that the majority of stones with GOG are just as nice as WF''s ACA''s. Those that don''t, won''t, but then I''ve seen posters plugging ACA''s into the HCA, so I''m not sure how much outright branding helps either in some cases....


2) I am with you on wishing there were prices for the settings. I think there are some things in the works, that being one of them. But I too wish they would get them up soon, as it does make it very hard to hellp a poster with a budget.


3) I find a lot of times that GOG and WF diamonds are fairly competitive in price, in regards to the ACA''s and GOG''s. As far as settings, I don''t know how much it would help even if we knew the prices, because WF carries their own settings, while GOG carries several designers. Designer settings will almost always be more, but often the quality may be a bit better too. And by that I don''t mean to insinuate WF''s settings aren''t of good quality, I''m sure they are.

Not sure how much help I was.

 

[strmrdr]

RG I''m shocked you have been here this long and you haven''t figured all that out?

 

[Regular Guy]

Jonathan talks about trinity in this thread.

First one to find it...wins.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ditto to Ellen''s reply, and I am not sure I understand the problem. I don''t think you will hear Jon favoring one of his H&A stones over another. (I can vouch for this from past experience.) As Ellen said, he handpicked them, so I don''t see an issue there. As far as the settings go, some designer brands don''t allow prices online. Furthermore, some settings come in multiple metals, and since metal prices are constantly changing, it is probably hard to keep up with the price changes from multiple designers. In fact, even though Pearlman''s posts prices, you STILL have to call to get the real price. WF makes most of their own settings, so that is how they can easily post prices and increase them when their raw materials and labor prices increase.

I think a smart buyer chooses the diamond and then asks for prices on the settings they like. I think we can estimate the cost of settings pretty accurately from others that are posted. Add extra for designer names.

I haven''t read the thread on the Trinity line, but my guess is that since some people value branding, and when the competition brands, it may be wise for him to do that, too.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 9/17/2008 4:33:27 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Jonathan talks about trinity in this thread.

First one to find it...wins.

I hate those argumentative threads so much that you''d have to pay me in advance to find it.

No wait, not worth it.

 

[Rhino]

Hi Ira,

Thanks for your questions. I''ll address them as best I can.

With Jon...he''s talked to me personally and publicly about a trinity line he may one day set up. Meanwhile, if you want to know which one he likes vs ones he finds acceptable to offer, but he kind of likes others...you have to call him, don''t you? And, as above, ask the smart questions. Right?

Ellen hit the nail on the head Ira. Regarding 99% of the diamonds we feature have each been scrutinzed through our own exclusive battery of tests (29 in all) which a diamond must pass to make it into our inventory. While we are perhaps more known for our exams and publishing of light performance data our exams extend past that. Some of which is published and some of which is not.

With rare exceptions will we post a diamond for sale that does not meet my personal criteria for what I would typically purchase. These would generally be diamonds that we

a. have on consignment (either from the public or a cutter)
b. a recut
c. an estate diamond

On diamonds with questionable optical results that is generally when we''ll get questions and that will usually be with certain fancies. Reason being, there are fancies that can appear to have questionable optical results via testing which do not correllate with human observation. In those cases I try to feature video exams in which we can demonstrate why I''ve taken a certain opinion on any given diamond I''m looking at. Otherwise if you see it posted on our site ... I will not waste the expense and precious time of my staff to publish all that information on the diamond. It''s optics must be 2nd to none.

2) OK, this one''s about rings. Today, I went to check on a price, and it says: ''This form is not working.'' But...it''s never working, right? I''ve been here now 4 plus years, and it''s never worked has it? If you want to know what a setting costs, you have to call, don''t you. Web searchers can be peeved at that. But...it is what it is. Maybe they don''t want you comparing, etc. For now (as always with them, I think), if you want to know the cost of your final output, I do think you have to call them. Right?

Yes a current frustration of my own and my staffs. Our site was initially designed to feature our diamonds and the jewelry end was more of an afterthought.

While we do feature a number of various designer lines we also feature a number of in house brands that are extraordinary settings at amazing value coupled with great craftsmanship and that''s not to mention a store full of jewelry ... both new and lots of estate jewelry that''d knock your sox off.

These do not get the exposure they deserve at this time and it is one of the elements we are focusing on primarily with the next upgrade to our site which has been a project in the works for us for quite some time now.

Item B - Knowing what you know!

3) So...I shouldn''t have to give them a hard time (see my comments here) in my recommendations to others if their options are competitively priced, and such. Are they?

To my knowledge we are. When speaking about "competitively priced" I also think of services as well and not just cold numbers with little to no service (at least with diamonds).

Maybe shoppers here who have compared can tell me! For example, I used to think Excel Diamonds made some of their money in their settings, where they were maybe more affordable in other places. With GOG, this has just been a question for me. Maybe people who are kind enough to respond will help.

Jonathan, no offence. I hope you might see this thread in the spirit that it''s intended. You''re welcome to respond, too!

No offense taken whatsoever Ira. Questions are good and I''m always open to constructive criticism.

All the best,

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/17/2008 5:07:30 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Ditto to Ellen's reply, and I am not sure I understand the problem. I don't think you will hear Jon favoring one of his H&A stones over another. (I can vouch for this from past experience.) As Ellen said, he handpicked them, so I don't see an issue there.

I dunno...I think this is naive. I can recall (but cannot document) instances where Jon is demonstrating something, and he points out how, yes, this doesn't perform so well, and is not among the best. Likewise...in one thread he laments selling a diamond that he felt performed like no other. Although it's possible he likes them all equally...this really seems disingenuine, doesn't it? And, he is not the only favorite vendor here to hand pick their options. And yet...frequently...others here do have identifiable "premier" lines. I'll agree Jon selects already what he regards to be the best of the best, I am predisposed he will tier them in some way.

I think a smart buyer chooses the diamond and then asks for prices on the settings they like.

Smart buyers, knowing they have alternatives for which they can find pricing on-line, may have better things to do...

I think we can estimate the cost of settings pretty accurately from others that are posted. Add extra for designer names.

Fine, maybe we can. Are you saying you've compared and done this? I would like to know. I would not assume as you have said, causing the query...but thanks for the tip of Pearlmans for some. Do you think you can effectively go to Pearlmans, see pricing there, and apply it to GOG?

Isn't Stuller, on the GOG site, more generic? Can you do something like look at pricing on a site like WF (or some named site) to know what you can get equivalent goods at GOG for?

Have you shopped this? Maybe it's a minor component, maybe it's not.

Some of us like eas(ier).

Thanks!

(edited to add)...I wrote my response while Jonathan wrote his. Maybe I wouldn't have added on. There may be some value here, regardless. Sounds like Jonathan supports making shopping for rings easier. Maybe this work will tarry further.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ira, there are a few of us who spent months and even years looking at settings, so yes, I think you can estimate setting costs easily based on similar rings on other sites. (Right MrsS?

)

Most of the high quality platinum solitaires were running in the $1500-1800 range the last time I was actively looking, as an example. So I''d allow a couple thousand for that kind of setting. And yes, you can get a close enough idea of prices from other sites for basic settings like Stuller (usually $500 or less).

I am assuming you are talking about a situation where someone comes here with a ring budget and you need to allow for a setting when recommending diamonds. It helps to know if they want a simple setting or an elaborate one, and whether they want platinum or 18k white gold. We usually recommend the simplest setting for a few hundred in gold so as to allow the most possible for the stone if the budget is tight. They can always upgrade the setting later. If someone has their heart set on a Leon pave setting or one with side stones, I think they need to not have a tight budget (and allow $3000-5000 and up for the setting).

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I also think you may be misinterpreting something. When Jon makes educational videos, he may pick a poorer cut stone to illustrate the superiority of the better stone and comment on it. But we aren''t talking about 2 H&A''s in that case. I don''t think you see him doing this in his comparisons of top quality cut stones for a customer trying to choose a stone, especially with H&A''s. He might express a preference on fancy cuts, but that is usually more subjective anyway.

 

[Rhino]

Correct diamondseeker. Oftentimes when I''m shooting a suite of diamonds I''ll include all of the diamonds that were called in and share/demonstrate what my preferences are among the lot and why I think some are stinkers, winners and those that fall in between.

Ira, yes ... I am all for making it easier. We are taking steps to not only make the setting process easier but even the diamond selection process.

 

[arjunajane]

I will offer my experience from the POV of a long-distance customer (Australia), as I can actually relate to Ira''s points about settings.
For me personally, not being able to find out about the settings in store presented a small issue - I''m sure if I was in the US, I would''ve just phoned, but the time difference meant phoning at about 4am my time

(Although, to Jon''s credit we did do this a couple times when discussing diamonds - I don''t recommend discussing the ins and outs of stones at 5am when you have a hangover, lol !)

Anyway...I ended up getting my stone from GOG and setting from WF - it went smoothly, but I wouldn''t necessarily recommend it to others.
The main reason was probably budget - a designer setting was just not in mine.
But a secondary issue was definately convenience - I could look up current prices for any style, metal etc at WF.
I did find out a little too late about the other settings in house at GOG - my only suggestion there would be to suggest these more in email correspondence etc..

Good to know you''re addressing it Jon, can''t wait for the new site !

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/17/2008 10:38:41 PM
Author: arjunajane
...can''t wait for the new site !

from Jon..."it is one of the elements we are focusing on primarily with the next upgrade to our site which has been a project in the works for us for quite some time now..."



I can''t remember a time when Jonathan is not working on a "new site..."

 

[Rhino]

Date: 9/17/2008 11:21:27 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 9/17/2008 10:38:41 PM
Author: arjunajane
...can''t wait for the new site !

from Jon...''it is one of the elements we are focusing on primarily with the next upgrade to our site which has been a project in the works for us for quite some time now...''



I can''t remember a time when Jonathan is not working on a ''new site...''

LOL... hey now ... aren''t we all works in progress Ira? Even when that launches I''ll always be thinking of tweaks.

 

[Darthkim]

Hi Regular Guy,

As one who purchased and just received his ring from GOG, I thought I''d chime in on a couple points.

RE: Their Diamonds.

One of the key selling points of the PS forum users recommended vendors, is the fact that they to provide more information than the average mall jewelry shopper. Comparing BN, WF, JA and GOG, I felt that GOG was the one that provide the most upfront information regarding their stones. Besides the H&A and DiamXray pics, I am particularly fond of their Helium Report. Some of the other vendors require your email address to "send" you their pictures. For me, that was a turnoff. I like easy, accessible information, and in the end, this helped me lean toward purchasing the stone from GOG.

At my work, I appreciate the vendors who put as much information about their products on their website. For those who work in IT, that''s why Cisco is dominant in their sector, due to the sheer amount of information and documentation they make available to their existing and potential customers (in addition to their great TAC, which is nearly unrivaled).

Price wise, I believe them to be a great value (in relation to B&M shops and even comparable PS vendors). Even after I purchased the Diamond and waited for the setting to be finished, I continued to look around to see if I felt like I overpaid. Haven''t so far I''ve compared their stones to Tiffany''s, Cartier''s, Bailey''s, multiple jewelry stores in southern California and no one comes close to providing the information and value that they provide.

RE: Settings.

Granted, their website still needs work on with their setting search, however I found most of their prices to be comparable to the setting prices from WF and BN. Granted, I was looking for a much more simpler design, but I figure for most of the settings, that should hold true.

The only interesting thing was that the price of my setting fluctuated depending upon how much platinum was per ounce that day. When I finally decided to buy, I ended up saving 200 dollars, as the cost of oil per barrel and platinum dropped within days. That being said, "past indicators of performance are not indicative of future performance"

Hope this helps! Keep asking questions... we are all here to learn more from everyone