3 diamonds...help me make the right choice

[njdiamondlooker]

Down to 3....help me choose the best one for my special lady

a) .928 $5500
G H&A
Vs2
Depth 61.6
Table 54.7
Crown 34.3
Pavillion Angle 40.8
Pavillion Depth 43%
Culet Size .4
Girdle Min 1.0 thin
Girdle Max 1.9 Sl thich
Girdlge Avg. 1.4 Medium
Proportion Grade 0
Polish Excellent
Symettry Excellent


b).900 $4400
I H&A
vs1 (cloud in table)
Depth 61.5
Table 54.7
Crown 34.4
Pavillion Angle 40.8
Pavillion Depth 43%
Culet Size .3
Girdle Min 1.4 Medium
Girdle Max 1.8 Sl thich
Girdlge Avg. 1.6 Medium
Proportion Grade 0
Polish Excellent
Symettry Excellent

c) .90 $4600
G H&A
Vs1 (crystal in table)
60.8 Depth
55% Table
Medium, Faceted girdle
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Good

 

[aljdewey]

Scrap C (no info, and symmetry only good), and toss a coin between A & B.

 

[aljdewey]

Or ......better yet.......try these:

1.04 J, SI1 for $4285

1.19 J, SI2 for $4850

or this one: 1.00 I, SI1 for $4614 (I know there aren''t crown/pav on this, but you can see the Idealscope and that doesn''t lie....it''s a nice stone!

All of these stones are exceptionally cut....and they are all "can''t go wrong" stones.

 

[horsenito1]

Aljdewey, are you getting commisions?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/24/2005 4:56:36 AM
Author: horsenito1
Aljdewey, are you getting commisions?

No, Horsenito......I don''t get commissions from any vendor here. I''ve been here for the better part of 2.5 years because I enjoy helping folks find/choose great stones without spending the ridiculous mark-up at traditional venues. People helped me when I first came here, and I appreciated it enough to stay and pay it forward.

I posted these as examples of stones that he could compare and look at. I simply did a search by cut quality and then tried to identify stones that were 1) at/over the carat mark for the most size while being 2) under $5K that also 3) had an active link to the stone. This is what I found. If you can find alternates, I encourage you to post them up also.

It''s of completely no consequence to me what he buys.

Incidentally, did someone put you up to asking such a question?

 

[horsenito1]

Incidentally no. But the way you refer to alternate stones suggest that you are part of the trading scheme behind this forum...
And if you haven''t so far, perhaps you should think about it?

 

[pricescope]

Date: 5/24/2005 1:02:28 PM
Author: horsenito1
Incidentally no. But the way you refer to alternate stones suggest that you are part of the trading scheme behind this forum...
And if you haven''t so far, perhaps you should think about it?

Forum policies:

13. Referrals and Recommendations:

a. Recommendations given within the Pricescope community should be done in a good faith as genuine opinions based on personal knowledge and experience and not influenced by any commercial interests.

b. Any remuneration in exchange for posted testimony, referred products or services within the Pricescope community are strictly forbidden. Members or vendors engaged in such practices will be banned and their posts or posts referencing said vendor subject to removal.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/24/2005 1:02:28 PM
Author: horsenito1

Incidentally no. But the way you refer to alternate stones suggest that you are part of the trading scheme behind this forum...
And if you haven't so far, perhaps you should think about it?

Yeah, you are right. I kept doing this because others were doing the same way before I joined the forum. The practice seemed to be part of the local Pricescope folklore. This might be so because it is allot easier to talk about diamonds using examples and referring to sellers you kow of. And that surely amounts to some bias.

In theory, sellers could be paying for this

, but aparently they do not. Otherwise, I shoud be due a load of backpay !

Btw, feel free to question what's with the weird number of posts listed under my avatar name. I've started to worry myself lately...

About the three diamonds: between the last two it is rather hard to choose because the last one does not come with all the specs. If you have good reason to believe it does have that H&A cut and great prportions like the other two, than it would be my winner. The .9cts weight ideal cut is a great way to keep the pie and eat it too. G-H/VS sounds great as well. And so would G/H-SI1 assuming you are not pick up a stone with glaring inclusions. Below one carat SI1 should be "eye clean" most of the time.

Hope this helps.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/24/2005 4:56:36 AM
Author: horsenito1
Aljdewey, are you getting commisions?

Your way off the mark.
She has a very strong WF bias but WF wouldnt stoop low enough to try something like that so it isnt because she is getting paid.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/24/2005 7:47:07 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 5/24/2005 4:56:36 AM
Author: horsenito1
Aljdewey, are you getting commisions?

Your way off the mark.
She has a very strong WF bias but WF wouldnt stoop low enough to try something like that so it isnt because she is getting paid.

Now, Storm.....we've had this discussion before.

I don't have a bias to Whiteflash. In fact, I think the fact I just purchased a stone from Wink quite handily refutes any *bias* comments.

I *do* have a bias....... but it's to stones, not vendors: I will always gravitate to whomever carries the widest selection of the much-coveted *value stones*......the G/H/I/J, SI stones. To me, those represent the absolute best value......the most stone presence with the least visual sacrifice.

When I look at the recent purchases of PScopers here in the last year, it's quite clear I'm not alone in that preference range. A massive majority of them fall into those categories.

If Whiteflash stopped stocking those tomorrow......that would be that. But presently, they are the only vendor who seems to want to focus on them. I wish SEVERAL vendors would focus on those - it would certainly benefit us all if they did. Perhaps you might want to put that bug into the ear of the vendor *you're* very strongly biased toward.

 

[Rhino]

Consumers have the right to recommend whichever stones they wish and this includes Al.

A few points I would note though and I speak this as a friend/good acquaintance to many here. Al, even though you don't mean to, when you promote diamonds from only 1 vendor this paints you as being biased in some way in the eyes of the readers here. Not everyone knows when and who you purchase stones from to see your unbias behind the scenes. I happen to know you a little better than most posters and know where you're coming from but I am just trying to give you a different perspective as many don't know you that well.

Another point I would like to make is if a consumer is looking at diamonds with a particular vendor why steer them away to another vendor? This consumer did not express any dissatisfaction with whom they were doing business with. They just wanted opinions on the 3 diamonds they posted, most of which appear to be just fine with no red flags in the data (34-34.5 crown angles, 40.8 pavilioin angles, 54 table happens to be some of the rarest combos among H&A's!). On a personal note I just think its proper etiquette to help the client with his question without steering them away to another vendor. Ie. if a client is looking at diamonds with Jim at DCD, it would IMO be in bad taste to recommend him to a completely different vendor and stones. If a vendor didn't know you personally Al, this could also be interpreted as heavy bias towards WF not just from the readers perspective but also the vendor whom you steered the client away from.

And lastly... "I know there aren't crown/pav on this, but you can see the Idealscope and that doesn't lie....it's a nice stone!"

You know I am a very strong advocate of red reflector technology and can defend it's strengths tooth and nail. However there are limitations to idealscope images that do not tell the whole story particularly with sets of angles on the shallow/shallow side. After studying diamonds for the length of time that I have and using and comparing all the technologies we use and especially the changes that are coming up within AGS/GIA cut grading a diamond can receive a lousy cut grade with what appears to be a seemingly great IS image. Red reflector images, by themselves, are not accurate for determining top grade stones. I realize you may not be aware of this as I know you wouldn't recommend a stone you didn't feel confident in, but for the record ... IS images are no guarantee for top grade stones in the future GIA/AGS system.

Please don't take my criticism personally Al. I know you mean absolutely no harm and that you are sincerely interested in helping the consumer. I'm just trying to offer a different perspective on how others may view your postings.

Kind regards,

 

[aljdewey]

Jon, I don't have a problem with someone who doesn't know us well here asking if I'm biased.....it's a perfectly valid question from someone who shouldn't be expect to know better. But it gets a little old to keep hearing it from the same saws....Storm, you, etc.....folks who should and DO know better.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.....and I'll keep saying it until it registers. When I point to stones, it's about the STONES.....and giving more examples/choices to the CUSTOMER......I seriously couldn't care less who the vendor is.

Don't you think I get TIRED of taking crap from all of you because most of the stones I point to are from WF? Of course I do.......but I cannot control the fact that many of you just won't carry the types of "value stones" that PS shoppers are most typically looking for. I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to point to stones from TEN vendors and give folks much more to choose from.......but until you guys wake up and start stocking the types of stones that people are buying here, I can't do it.

Take a few minutes, Jon, and go browse the SMTR thread....what kind of stones do YOU see being bought MOST prominently? That's right - G/H/I/J, SI. That doesn't mean EVERYONE will want them, but it means several vendors are most certainly not responding to what the market is very obviously demanding.

The only alternative is to start pointing to stones that push folks far out of their budget, and I'm not a proponent of suggesting that people spend more for a stone just to satisfy vendors. I'm not here for vendors, I'm here for other buyers like me.

I'll address the rest in my next post to avoid making HUGE posts.

 

[aljdewey]

Addressing your "steering away from vendors" comments......Jon, I have no idea WHO the vendor is on the stones listed above....although from your defensiveness on it, I'm now guessing you might be on one of them. For all I know, they may all be WF stones, too. I'm not about *STEERING* anyone......not TOWARD any vendor or AGAINST any vendor.

It's a simple as this: I saw the listed stones are .9x, VS stones. I also know that for the same money, he can get over the magic carat mark with almost no visual sacrifice by going SI. OF COURSE I'm going to point that out, and it's no different than others saying "why go with a D, VVS stone....you could get other bigger stones like these (Stone A, Stone B, Stone C) for the same money."

When that happens, by the way, there are times someone will reply "I realize I can go bigger, but I personally don't want less than VS." If so, FINE. Similary, if someone says "I really want to consider only stones from X vendor"...FINE. We aren't here to tell them what they should want, but we are here to share with them what's *possible*. Sometimes, the only reason is picking a .9x stone is because Fred C.'s book said he should.....so he doesn't *know* that he could get a bigger stone for the same money.

Nowhere did the poster specify that he wants to work with a given vendor or was impressed by a given vendor....he's asking about STONES. Had his question been vendor related, of course my response would have been different.

Further, Jon, PS's stated role isn't that of a sales vehicle. It's supposed to be a place where consumers can seek honest feedback from other consumers or industry experts. This isn't a governmental entity bound tp make sure everyone gets "their fair share"....that's not what this place is about. Consumers here are most concerned about helping each other get the most pleasing choice for their money.....whatever that means to each of them.

I don't want this to sound disrespectful, but my feeling about what vendors think is this: Those who participate here regularly should know better...that I'm not biased toward vendors but toward stones. I've BOUGHT from at least 3 vendors here, and I've regularly sung the praises of at least 5-6 vendors here....including a few that I haven't bought from, including you. For regular vendors here who may have concerns about bias, *that* track record is more than enough to negate any such concerns. For those who don't participate regularly here, I'm unconcerned with what they think or don't.

Regarding the Idealscope, I'm not qualified to get into a contest with you about how reliable the IS is....but I WILL say this on it: If you feel it's appropriate to sing the praises of the usefulness of the b/scope even though so many others dissent on it's meaningfulness, I feel similarly entitled to do with with respect to the idealscope. No one tool out there is perfect....but of all the respected opinions I've seen in my years here, many more of them support the results of the Idealscope than do the B/Scope. If it's meaningful to so many of them, that says something *to me*. I'll leave the debate about what's better/worse to all of you techies.

NJDiamond: Let's keep in mind that the person this thread is supposed to help is you.

At the end of the day, you have to buy *what* you feel most comfortable with and *with whom* you are most comfortable with. None of us here can make those determinations for you.....we can try to offer help/insights, but that's all they are. The only one who's opinion really matters on your purchase is yours.

 

[MrsFrk]

A consumer has a good experience with a retailer/vendor, and as a result goes around singing their praises. Is this not what all of you merchants desire? Unless of course, the consumer who is singing loudest and longest didn''t buy from you.

I am a fan of certain products/retailers, and as a very picky and obsessive consumer, once you''re in my good graces I run around like an unpaid spokesperson (non-celebrity spokesperson, obviously

), whether you like it or not! I don''t see anything wrong with consumers making recommendations to other consumers.

 

[horsenito1]

Rhino, thank you for the correct interpretation.

Aljdewey, your explanation and justification do not stand because it all comes down to interpretation.

Instead of trying to justify yourself, you should admit that your knowledge on diamonds is very limited and therefore you should learn to listen to what professionals have to say.

You suggested earlier "a little time invested by you researching some threads would be enlightening for you in that regard."

I have done the research and found that there is a clear pattern in your writing style...whether you like it or not, whether it is true or not, I sense that you are biased like hell!

Interpretation is also reality...

 

[horsenito1]

Aljdewey,
Sorry but this is childish...

"For regular vendors here who may have concerns about bias, *that* track record is more than enough to negate any such concerns. For those who don''t participate regularly here, I''m unconcerned with what they think or don''t."

 

[Kaleigh]

Sad thing is that njdiamondlooker didn''t get the help he was seeking. That to me is a shame.

 

[Kaleigh]

I am very sorry, let me take a look and will give you my feedback. I did give you my feed back via email, but maybe these are new options, let me see.

 

[njdiamondlooker]

Thank you ... greatly appreciate someone giving me some advice.... that is what us newbies are here for...good sound advice we can''t find elsewhere

 

[Kaleigh]

njdiamondlooker,
My opinion hasn't changed I still like #3. Hopefully others will chime in and give you their opinions. For myself I like that it's a G VS2 and the numbers look great. HTH. And yes that's what we're here for. Let us know what you decide!!! And best wishes to you, it's hard I'm sure.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/25/2005 10:34:13 PM
Author: njdiamondlooker
Thank you ... greatly appreciate someone giving me some advice.... that is what us newbies are here for...good sound advice we can't find elsewhere

NJ diamond........good advice you can't find elsewhere? Did you not get the extensive reply that I wrote in response to your PM to me? What about the one your wrote to Mara last night? Let's not get overly dramatic. You've received responses; if those aren't enough, it might be helpful to outline your expectations for number of responses that would finally satisfy you. People participate here on a voluntary basis.

It might also help if you stuck with one thread instead of starting several. You've initiated several different threads on this, and you may not be aware that doing that tends to dilute the responses received.

Horsenito: I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you....plain and simple. If you CHOOSE to believe there is a bias, be my guest. I've listed all the reasons why there isn't, and if they aren't good enough for you, then they aren't. To me, it's not worth arguing with a hit-and-run poster here about it, and it doesn't serve the purpose of the thread.

 

[deny]

Date: 5/25/2005 10:34:13 PM
Author: njdiamondlooker
Thank you ... greatly appreciate someone giving me some advice.... that is what us newbies are here for...good sound advice we can''t find elsewhere

I took this post as saying what newbies come here for is advice.

Good sound advice we can''t find elsewhere, but we can find it here.

I know I have learned a great deal in the short time I have been coming to this site, and I appreciate it.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/26/2005 12:09:10 AM
Author: denyRN

Date: 5/25/2005 10:34:13 PM
Author: njdiamondlooker
Thank you ... greatly appreciate someone giving me some advice.... that is what us newbies are here for...good sound advice we can''t find elsewhere

I took this post as saying what newbies come here for is advice.

Good sound advice we can''t find elsewhere, but we can find it here.

I know I have learned a great deal in the short time I have been coming to this site, and I appreciate it.

You''re right, denyRN.....I referred to the wrong post. I meant to reply/quote his post where he stated "I did not get the help I was seeking and that is a true shame."

He has been given help.....in several threads. The help he received has inevitably been a smattering of varying opinions. It should come as no surprise that different people prefer different combinations. If he''s expecting unanimous consensus, his expectations are too high. The stones are a toss-up - both are gorgeous....and there is no clear-cut winner.

I told this guy in my reply to his PM that he shouldn''t worry - he really couldn''t make wrong choice because both are beautiful and to just pick what HE prefers.

If all of this feedback "isn''t what he was seeking", then he really needs to be clearer about exactly what he is seeking. People ARE trying to help him, and dismissing their contributions and saying it''s a true shame I haven''t gotten what I wanted yet isn''t really a way to encourage more responses.

 

[njdiamondlooker]

Here it is

 

[njdiamondlooker]

Here it is