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24/m/Canada Advice

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Elagabalus

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
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I am going to buy a diamond solitaire ring for myself because I what little money I have I can''t help but spend. I blame my mother.

Now, I know alot of people might suggest I pay down my debt etc etc, and while I know I should do that, no matter what I won''t. (Until later)

So that said let me state the facts.

I''ve decided on .50 cts or 1/2 cts.
Now as for the 3 other Cs Cut, Clarity, and Colour let me tell you a story.

I was on diamondsonweb.com and in my price range I found an H colour, VS2, 51cts diamond Very Good cut.
I called my local jeweller who I''ve dealt with in the past and he started asking me questions about the diamond and as soon as he asked "colour"? and I replied "H" he told me "don''t buy H it''s junk. So he started explaining everythign about diamonds to me etc etc He told me to come in and he would show me some diamonds and compare the colourless DEF to the Near Colourless for me GHI and explain about brilliance etc etc

The H stone he showed me was brilliant, but then he showed me an E stone. Both were VS2, Very Good cut same carat weight etc etc On a piece of white paper he placed the diamonds side by side and asked if I could see a difference. I did. He said he would sell me the H for 1550 Canadian dollars. I declined and asked about the F colour stone. Now here is my question.

He has estimated 1720 Canadian for a .51 cts, F colour, SI1, Very Good cut diamond.
I trust this jeweller implicity as I know he is all about intergrity and reputation.
The only thing that sort of worries me is the SI1. On most sites I read that the inclusions in SI1 might be viewable by the naked eye and that in VS2 they are not. My jeweller showed me a .90 cts E colour Very Good cut diamond and even with the times 10 magnification I could barely see anything.
He said he will try to get an F .51cts with any inclusions on the side so when mounted they wont be noticeable at all. His diamonds are all certified etc etc

Should I pay 1720 for the F, .51cts, Very good cut, SI1 diamond
or would it be worth paying more for the same stone with VS2 clarity? Would it improve brilliance that much? Could you also give me any comments about H colour diamonds? I''m going with F, .5 to .52cts Very good to ideal cut but I dont know if I should accept SI1 or insist on Vs2 and pay the extra money. I want people to notice my diamond. Please help me!!

John
 

Go with the G colour stone.


I can''t believe you are even considering anything less.
Deus Sol Invictus


I believe you answered your own question in regard to color.
In regard to clarity, SI1 inclusions should not have any effect on performance.
If you are stating in US dollars, 1720 is, to me, expensive for only very good cut.

Just some friendly banter...if you really want people to notice, how big are you willing to go?
 
1720 was quoted to me Canadian dollars, for .51, F, SI1.
My jeweller told me the thing about why diamonds are so sought after is the brilliance the reflection of the light and which is why CUT before anything else, is the most important thing regarding diamond brilliance. That you would notice it across a room. Secondary is colour. .51 cts is big enough I don''t have very large fingers and I dont want to be too blind bling, but I want the .51 cts F colour to be brilliant and could pay a lil extra for VS2 instead of SI1 but only if the experts here believe it makes even a bit of differnece.
I can imagine a difference between VS1 and SI2, but what about VS2 and SI1 in a .51 cts stone?
 
if cut is before everything else, why is he trying to sell you a stone with "very good" cut?

if you can see the SI1, then don''t buy it. if you can''t see it, that''s fine. in either case, it should not make any difference in performance.
 
When I called him and told him I will be buying a stone online I asked if he could make a man''s setting for it. He told me don''t buy any stone with a rating lower than SI1 and Very Good cut.

He then went on to talk about proportions and said I should come see him and maybe we can work something out with what he has. I placed a deposit down of 1000 CDn and he will look for an F, .51 cts, Very Good to Ideal cut, (no excellent in this step VG, then Ideal) SI1. He said he will look for a good stone with any SI1 inclusions to the side to be hidden by the mounting. He said he''ll also have some same 1/2 cts f''s come in in VS2 I can take a look at which he would charge me another 150-200 Cdn dollars for.
What do you think?
 
Oh, about the H thing, I just noticed it was on white paper. Are you an albino? If not, I think it is safe to say your mounted diamond will never be looked at against a white background. Also, did he show it to you face-up or bottom-up? Because bottom-up is the position used to grade color, but, again, your diamond will never be looked at that way, unless you have a very open or tension setting. Honestly, at the 1/2 carat size, I doubt you'll see much color...but you must decide for yourself. You might want to go back, hold your hand with your fingers together, and place the F and H stones on top of your hand in between your fingers.
 
Are you suggesting that the difference between F and H colour are so minute that the price differences are absurd, or that F and H produce the same amount of brilliance? If I place an H and a K besides each other I might not see too much difference either? etc etc?
 
http://diamonds.pricescope.com/color.asp

Each grade gets wider, i.e., the difference between D and F is very small, while the difference in I/K will be much more noticeable.

Whether you should pay for the difference between F and H, that is your call. Most posters are believe that one should not not pay for what one cannot see.

If you place an H and K next to each other, I'm quite certain you will see a difference. Whether it is acceptable to you or not, again, is your call.

We are taught from an early age that something white reflects all light and something black absorbs all light. If there is a difference between brilliance, or light return, which, if you will allow me to be bold enough to define as total light-absorbed frequencies-light leakage (law of energy conservation,) the difference between the absorption of the F and H will be so minute as to be indescernible to the human eye.
 
Date: 7/7/2006 10:51:56 PM
Author: Elagabalus
Are you suggesting that the difference between F and H colour are so minute that the price differences are absurd, or that F and H produce the same amount of brilliance? If I place an H and a K besides each other I might not see too much difference either? etc etc?
Click to expand...

the cut of the stone is what gives it it''s sparkle and fire..nothing to do with the color. As for color, everyone is different in what they can and can''t see. You''d probably see a difference between and H and K right next to each other. H''s are H''s and K''s are K''s for a reason. Some like whiter stones while others actually prefer warmer lower color stones. What color works for you depends on what you eye sees but a ideal cut stone will mask color and many times a I/J will face up white once it''s set. Makes a good way for those who want to get a bigger stone for a better price.
 
Date: 7/7/2006 11:10:33 PM
Author: JulieN

If there is a difference between brilliance, or light return, which, if you will allow me to be bold enough to define as total light-absorbed frequencies-light leakage (law of energy conservation,) the difference between the absorption of the F and H will be so minute as to be indescernible to the human eye.
Click to expand...

Very nicely done JulieN!
36.gif
 
Date: 7/8/2006 12:05:01 AM
Author: lizzyd

Date: 7/7/2006 11:10:33 PM
Author: JulieN

If there is a difference between brilliance, or light return, which, if you will allow me to be bold enough to define as total light-absorbed frequencies-light leakage (law of energy conservation,) the difference between the absorption of the F and H will be so minute as to be indescernible to the human eye.
Click to expand...

Very nicely done JulieN!
36.gif
Click to expand...

If the difference between color grades wouldn''t be discernable to the human eye, then we couldn''t grade them. So that conclusion on not being able to tell the differences is a bit untrue.

What the inexperienced eye can separate in non standard grading light, and considered face up, I would agree with you, as to not being able to separate, but I have had people come in that CAN see the differences even between D an E''s in the face up position (although I can only count the number on them with one hand) which is very tough to do.

Also accurate color grading in the face up position is certainly not the "standard" by which diamond color is assessed. Diamonds will appear differently in the face up position than what the color grade actually is. That is why color is graded in the environment that is very defined, as to the lighting, the tray, the positon of the light, the DISTANCE of the lighting, and even more importantly .... that it is done by someone who has had color vision testing, who HAS ACTUAL COMPARISON MASTER STONES !

Rockdoc

ISA, ASA, AGS all require this of their members that have credentials.
 
RockDoc, I was talking about light return, which is determined in the face up position.
 
So I guess basically the answer is compare the .51 cts F, SI1 with the same .51 cts F, Vs2 and see what the difference is, and decide for myself whether i NEED one clarity grade higher.

Thanks all

:P
 
Yes, exactly. But, just make sure both stones are ideally cut so you are really comparing apples to apples.

Good luck, and let us know what you find!

Best,
LizzyD
 
Date: 7/8/2006 10:45:52 AM
Author: Elagabalus
So I guess basically the answer is compare the .51 cts F, SI1 with the same .51 cts F, Vs2 and see what the difference is, and decide for myself whether i NEED one clarity grade higher.
Click to expand...

Elagabalus,

Actually, comparing the two stones you will be comparing more than just clarity. The cut will be different on both, since it would be highly unlikely to have 2 exactly identically cut stones. Each will have its own character as determined by the cut. So the difference you see in "performance" won't be due to clarity, as SI1 doesn't really affect "performance." What you'd need to do is determine whether the "grader" on that particular SI1 is eye visible, and whether that bothers you. If not, the compare the two side-by-each to see which stone "performs" better (brilliance, fire, scintillation, etc.). One my perform better from superior cut, and if you're lucky, it's the SI1 which will likely net you a lower cost.

However, as has been suggested here, IMO you'll see a much bigger difference between Very Good cut & Ideal cut as opposed to VS2 & SI1. So make sure you price the same specs on an ideal stone through PS vendors, and perhaps purchase one with a good return policy to compare with these b&m stones. You may be pleasantly surprised at the difference.

Good luck,
^

ETA: I just saw you put down a deposit so he'd look for a stone. I'd be very reluctant to do this. The guy is a jeweler, he's supposed to carry stones. If he wants to earn your business he should show you something that compels you to purchase it. I don't expect to pay The Gap a deposit to get jeans in my size, I expect them to have them for me to try, and then they get my money. I don't like handing over money in advance, personally. That seems like an awfully big deposit, too, he should know you're serious by how you're talking.
 
I know this jeweller and have dealt with him before. He said I didnt have to put any money down at all until he gets an F 1/2 ct in for me.
I spend money like crazy and might have changed my mind and blown it on something else so for myself I put the money down. It''s 1000 credit toward any stone I want, I can decide later etc etc.

What would the price be between .51 cts, F, SI1, Very Good Cut
and .51 cts, G, VS2, Very Good Cut

?
 
Why aren''t you looking for excellent or ideal cut?
 
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