20 Stabbed at Pittsburgh area high school

[SB621]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/09/justice/pennsylvania-school-stabbing/index.html

Seriously what is this world coming to...? I don't often pray but I did when I read this. I hope everyone survives, I can't even imagine this happening.

 

[AprilBaby]

I heard a kid pulled the fire alarm to empty the school! Smart move! What's going on there days????

 

[TooPatient]

I just heard this on the radio. My thoughts are with the families and students.

What a world! So many shocking events lately...

 

[chrono]

So shocking and so very sad. My thoughts are with the victims, families and friends.

 

[momhappy]

Yes, and this is a perfect example of why the issue of random acts of violence deserves so much more than a discussion about gun control…. People use guns, knives, bombs, even air planes to cause harm and yet the main focus has been gun control and/or banning guns.
Sadly, It's a crazy world we live in and stories like these are terribly upsetting

 

[justginger]

I am thankful that in this case there wasn't a firearm used - the amount of children injured and severity of injuries would have been that much more severe. My thoughts are with all those affected, but sadly these events hardly cause more than a ripple of concern in society these days.

 

[Sky56]

It's just too awful for words. Too often, I sleep in on the West Coast and wake up to sad news on the East Coast that happened while I was asleep. Someone went on a terrible stabbing rampage not long ago in China.

 

[momhappy]

I am thankful that in this case there wasn't a firearm used - the amount of children injured and severity of injuries would have been that much more severe. My thoughts are with all those affected, but sadly these events hardly cause more than a ripple of concern in society these days.

I am thankful that a gun wasn't used too, but my point was that people use all sorts of things to cause harm, but some folks seem to think that the answer lies in gun control (and I disagree).

 

[TC1987]

Reports said he had 2 knives. They named him here: http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/multiple-students-reported-stabbed-at-franklin-regional-high-school/ 16-year-old Alex Hribal . Some other updates at that link. Forbes Hospital video says deep penetrating injuries to the lower right abdomen, and all the attacks followed that same pattern "leading to the criticality of the injuries."

Some people say these killers are mentally ill, or bullied, or have bad home lives, or whatever. I think they are just out-of-control kids. I have no compassion for them, and I'd like to see the police just shoot them dead on the spot. Seriously, people know right from wrong by age 5. Going around deliberately injuring or killing other people is evil and sociopathic.

 

[Laila619]

I don't understand why we can't have metal detectors and armed guards at schools. Who cares if it's expensive? What is more important than protecting our children?!

 

[Cluless]

So sad, my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

 

[Sparklelu]

I don't understand why we can't have metal detectors and armed guards at schools. Who cares if it's expensive? What is more important than protecting our children?!

Actually many inner city schools do have metal detectors and I believe this school had several armed officers on premises. I'm not able to locate the article I read it in.
I appreciate your who cares if it's expensive comment however in reality, that money would come from the already thin school budgets because frankly most folks would squawk at paying any more in taxes to pay for such protections.
We had a non custodial parent come to our school in the fall to get his kids, his wife called the school and said he had a gun in the car. He was arrested in the parking lot and it brought to light the same issue, why can't we have more police presence? The city would let us share a resource officer with the elementary school and the HS( we share a campus) but it would cost us 45,000. For the year. We ponied up the money and the city threw in 3 empty police cars to put in our parking lots so it looks like we have more coverage.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't understand why we can't have metal detectors and armed guards at schools. Who cares if it's expensive? What is more important than protecting our children?!

It's not a matter of expense for me. It's a matter of living in a police state. It's about what you are willing to give up for safety. That kind of thinking is how we ended up with the Patriot Act.

Giving up liberty to the terror is just... too much I think. Next you'll be talking about metal detectors and armed guards at parks and swing sets.

What we need to spend money on is smaller class sizes, so children get more one on one attention. So that teachers and counselors aren't so overworked and underpaid that they don't have time to spend with the children. Our best line of defense against this violence is making sure that the adults supervising the children have the time and resources they need to be able to spot problems, intervene to talk to the children, to the parents. What we need is to help the teachers and counselors to be able to spot issues and problems before they happen. Not that they are responsible, but they are the ones that have the best chance of spotting problems (other than the parents) before they happen and helping these kids get the care and attention they need before they escalate to violence.

That's what we need. Not armed guards and metal detectors.

 

[ksinger]

I don't understand why we can't have metal detectors and armed guards at schools. Who cares if it's expensive? What is more important than protecting our children?!

It's not a matter of expense for me. It's a matter of living in a police state. It's about what you are willing to give up for safety. That kind of thinking is how we ended up with the Patriot Act.

Giving up liberty to the terror is just... too much I think. Next you'll be talking about metal detectors and armed guards at parks and swing sets.

What we need to spend money on is smaller class sizes, so children get more one on one attention. So that teachers and counselors aren't so overworked and underpaid that they don't have time to spend with the children. Our best line of defense against this violence is making sure that the adults supervising the children have the time and resources they need to be able to spot problems, intervene to talk to the children, to the parents. What we need is to help the teachers and counselors to be able to spot issues and problems before they happen. Not that they are responsible, but they are the ones that have the best chance of spotting problems (other than the parents) before they happen and helping these kids get the care and attention they need before they escalate to violence.

That's what we need. Not armed guards and metal detectors.

Yep.
http://www.nasponline.org/advocacy/schoolsecurity.pdf

 

[Indylady]

I heard a kid pulled the fire alarm to empty the school! Smart move! What's going on there days????

That is smart. My goodness--my heart goes out to everyone involved. What a disturbed individual.

 

[Kaleigh]

Billiant move on the kid that pulled the fire alarm.... Great move.

Prayers outgoing to those students and those who ran in horror...

Metal detectors should be mandatory.. Dont give me the speel that this school did seareches when need be... You never know... So don't assume and make each and every person coming into the school go through it...

If we don't we fail.

How many times are we going to rinse and repeat??

IDK. Just so awful...

 

[Indylady]

I am thankful that in this case there wasn't a firearm used - the amount of children injured and severity of injuries would have been that much more severe. My thoughts are with all those affected, but sadly these events hardly cause more than a ripple of concern in society these days.

I am thankful that a gun wasn't used too, but my point was that people use all sorts of things to cause harm, but some folks seem to think that the answer lies in gun control (and I disagree).

I don't think that people think that the only answer to violence is gun control. I think gun control is an answer to gun-related violence, which has been occurring in schools for a long time, and has resulted in many deaths in and of itself.

Acts of violence that do not include guns are absolutely an important discussion; I agree with you 100%--but so is gun control. I can't think of anything other than a gun that is 1) easier to obtain and also 2) more effective at hurting a large group of people. A stabbing spree affecting 20 is actually pretty unusual, unlike a shooting spree that more can easily affect 20 people, which is why gun control should be one of many means to prevent violence crimes. The CDC finds that 68% homicides are firearm homicides http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm,, so it seems pretty clear that guns play an extraordinarily large role in violent crime.

 

[Laila619]

I don't understand why we can't have metal detectors and armed guards at schools. Who cares if it's expensive? What is more important than protecting our children?!

It's not a matter of expense for me. It's a matter of living in a police state. It's about what you are willing to give up for safety. That kind of thinking is how we ended up with the Patriot Act.

Giving up liberty to the terror is just... too much I think. Next you'll be talking about metal detectors and armed guards at parks and swing sets.

What we need to spend money on is smaller class sizes, so children get more one on one attention. So that teachers and counselors aren't so overworked and underpaid that they don't have time to spend with the children. Our best line of defense against this violence is making sure that the adults supervising the children have the time and resources they need to be able to spot problems, intervene to talk to the children, to the parents. What we need is to help the teachers and counselors to be able to spot issues and problems before they happen. Not that they are responsible, but they are the ones that have the best chance of spotting problems (other than the parents) before they happen and helping these kids get the care and attention they need before they escalate to violence.

That's what we need. Not armed guards and metal detectors.

I guess I don't see what the difference is between schools, court houses, airports, etc. We have metal detectors and guards in the latter places, so why not the former? I would think a lot of people appreciate having that extra security and don't feel like they're living in a police state. I know I feel a lot safer flying now than I ever did pre 9/11.

What you're proposing above is great, but the reality is, I don't think it'll happen. Even with the best efforts, some kids will still slip through the cracks and there will be plenty more shooting rampages and stabbing rampages.

 

[momhappy]

Pulling a fire alarm is smart in theory (and it worked out in this particular scenario), but I could see potential problems with it. If there is a crazy person with a weapon, having a mass of people running out into the hallways may not be the safest thing to do. If the kid had a gun instead of a knife, all of those student running into the hallway would have been an open target.

 

[Karl_K]

Nearly every guy in my high school carried a knife of some kind and no one ever got stabbed.
A few cut themselves accidentally but that was it.
There were fist fights where both sides had knives and they were never pulled.
I usually carried 2, a pocketknife in my pocket and a filet knife in my backpack with fish hooks and fishing line.
During lunch we would often go fishing in a near by river and light a fire and cook and eat our catch then come back to school in time for class.

 

[momhappy]

I am thankful that in this case there wasn't a firearm used - the amount of children injured and severity of injuries would have been that much more severe. My thoughts are with all those affected, but sadly these events hardly cause more than a ripple of concern in society these days.

I am thankful that a gun wasn't used too, but my point was that people use all sorts of things to cause harm, but some folks seem to think that the answer lies in gun control (and I disagree).

I don't think that people think that the only answer to violence is gun control. I think gun control is an answer to gun-related violence, which has been occurring in schools for a long time, and has resulted in many deaths in and of itself.

Acts of violence that do not include guns are absolutely an important discussion; I agree with you 100%--but so is gun control. I can't think of anything other than a gun that is 1) easier to obtain and also 2) more effective at hurting a large group of people. A stabbing spree affecting 20 is actually pretty unusual, unlike a shooting spree that more can easily affect 20 people, which is why gun control should be one of many means to prevent violence crimes. The CDC finds that 68% homicides are firearm homicides http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm,,, so it seems pretty clear that guns play an extraordinarily large role in violent crime.

What about a bombing? That utilizes no firearms and still harms vast numbers of people. Again, this is not about gun control IMO. Crazy people will always find ways to be crazy. My point is that much of the dialogue should be about crazy people and how we can prevent them from doing these sorts go things in the first place - not ban guns after the fact…..

 

[packrat]

Nearly every guy in my high school carried a knife of some kind and no one ever got stabbed.
A few cut themselves accidentally but that was it.
There were fist fights where both sides had knives and they were never pulled.
I usually carried 2, a pocketknife in my pocket and a filet knife in my backpack with fish hooks and fishing line.
During lunch we would often go fishing in a near by river and light a fire and cook and eat our catch then come back to school in time for class.

And it was the norm when my dad was in high school for boys to have their hunting guns in their vehicles at school.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't understand why we can't have metal detectors and armed guards at schools. Who cares if it's expensive? What is more important than protecting our children?!

It's not a matter of expense for me. It's a matter of living in a police state. It's about what you are willing to give up for safety. That kind of thinking is how we ended up with the Patriot Act.

Giving up liberty to the terror is just... too much I think. Next you'll be talking about metal detectors and armed guards at parks and swing sets.

What we need to spend money on is smaller class sizes, so children get more one on one attention. So that teachers and counselors aren't so overworked and underpaid that they don't have time to spend with the children. Our best line of defense against this violence is making sure that the adults supervising the children have the time and resources they need to be able to spot problems, intervene to talk to the children, to the parents. What we need is to help the teachers and counselors to be able to spot issues and problems before they happen. Not that they are responsible, but they are the ones that have the best chance of spotting problems (other than the parents) before they happen and helping these kids get the care and attention they need before they escalate to violence.

That's what we need. Not armed guards and metal detectors.

I guess I don't see what the difference is between schools, court houses, airports, etc. We have metal detectors and guards in the latter places, so why not the former? I would think a lot of people appreciate having that extra security and don't feel like they're living in a police state. I know I feel a lot safer flying now than I ever did pre 9/11.

What you're proposing above is great, but the reality is, I don't think it'll happen. Even with the best efforts, some kids will still slip through the cracks and there will be plenty more shooting rampages and stabbing rampages.

1) Schools are places of safety and nurturing and learning. They are communities. Court Houses have criminals in them routinely and are not places of safety nurturing or learning. Airports are transportation depots, and are not places of nurturing learning or safety and they certainly aren't communities. If you don't see the difference then I have no idea what to tell you. Seems pretty obvious to me. Tell me this, what if your church started putting in metal detectors. Would you still not see the difference? A church is closer to a school than an airport is. It's a community. It's a place of safety and nurturing and learning. What would you say if your church started putting in metal detectors and hiring armed guards?

2. "the reality is, I don't think it will happen." It will if people stop spending money on things that don't work, stop peddling fear and stop to think, it WOULD happen. It's about fighting ignorance and fear with knowledge, education and empathy. When *I* was a child there were no metal detectors in schools. Guns were legal. TV and movies were still violent. And we had toy guns and all kinds of violet games. I went to public school. And we didn't have mass violence and shootings and stabbings. SO what was the difference? Class size and school funding.

3. Kids will slip through the cracks with ANY solution. But metal detectors and arm guards that treat children going to school like criminals ENCOURAGES kids to THINK like criminals and try to get around the rules. It doesn't teach them respect for authority. It teaches them just the opposite. It also teaches them that fear is stronger than liberty. And it teaches those that have no respect for authority how to circumvent authority from an early age. It is naive and frankly stupid to think that metal detectors and armed guards are going to result in no knifes or weapons or bombs slipping through the cracks.

Metal Detectors don't work for the same reason gun control doesn't work. The properly motivated can STILL get their hands on weapons. They can still sneak in the ingredients for bombs.

My solution actually addresses the PROBLEM. It's PROACTIVE. Not reactive. And... unlike metal detectors-- it actually works.

If more people like YOU started thinking past your fear and started doing research for the causes of violence, instead of throwing armed guards and metal detectors at every little thing you don't understand... then it COULD become reality. Easily.

 

[TC1987]

Alex Hribal, Franklin Regional Stabbing Suspect: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Read more at: http://www.heavy.com/news/2014/04/franklin-regional-stabber-alex-hribal/
^
(Some reports say 8" knives but this one says 10". He is being charged as an adult.)

from elsewhere:

The accused attacker was been identified as 16-year-old Alex Hribal, according to a criminal complaint obtained by CNN. Hribal, who was arraigned as an adult, faces four counts of attempted homicide, 21 counts of aggravated assault and one count of possession of a weapon on school grounds, the documents show

 

[Laila619]

I don't understand why we can't have metal detectors and armed guards at schools. Who cares if it's expensive? What is more important than protecting our children?!

It's not a matter of expense for me. It's a matter of living in a police state. It's about what you are willing to give up for safety. That kind of thinking is how we ended up with the Patriot Act.

Giving up liberty to the terror is just... too much I think. Next you'll be talking about metal detectors and armed guards at parks and swing sets.

What we need to spend money on is smaller class sizes, so children get more one on one attention. So that teachers and counselors aren't so overworked and underpaid that they don't have time to spend with the children. Our best line of defense against this violence is making sure that the adults supervising the children have the time and resources they need to be able to spot problems, intervene to talk to the children, to the parents. What we need is to help the teachers and counselors to be able to spot issues and problems before they happen. Not that they are responsible, but they are the ones that have the best chance of spotting problems (other than the parents) before they happen and helping these kids get the care and attention they need before they escalate to violence.

That's what we need. Not armed guards and metal detectors.

I guess I don't see what the difference is between schools, court houses, airports, etc. We have metal detectors and guards in the latter places, so why not the former? I would think a lot of people appreciate having that extra security and don't feel like they're living in a police state. I know I feel a lot safer flying now than I ever did pre 9/11.

What you're proposing above is great, but the reality is, I don't think it'll happen. Even with the best efforts, some kids will still slip through the cracks and there will be plenty more shooting rampages and stabbing rampages.

1) Schools are places of safety and nurturing and learning. They are communities. Court Houses have criminals in them routinely and are not places of safety nurturing or learning. Airports are transportation depots, and are not places of nurturing learning or safety and they certainly aren't communities. If you don't see the difference then I have no idea what to tell you. Seems pretty obvious to me. Tell me this, what if your church started putting in metal detectors. Would you still not see the difference? A church is closer to a school than an airport is. It's a community. It's a place of safety and nurturing and learning. What would you say if your church started putting in metal detectors and hiring armed guards?

2. "the reality is, I don't think it will happen." It will if people stop spending money on things that don't work, stop peddling fear and stop to think, it WOULD happen. It's about fighting ignorance and fear with knowledge, education and empathy. When *I* was a child there were no metal detectors in schools. Guns were legal. TV and movies were still violent. And we had toy guns and all kinds of violet games. I went to public school. And we didn't have mass violence and shootings and stabbings. SO what was the difference? Class size and school funding.

3. Kids will slip through the cracks with ANY solution. But metal detectors and arm guards that treat children going to school like criminals ENCOURAGES kids to THINK like criminals and try to get around the rules. It doesn't teach them respect for authority. It teaches them just the opposite. It also teaches them that fear is stronger than liberty. And it teaches those that have no respect for authority how to circumvent authority from an early age. It is naive and frankly stupid to think that metal detectors and armed guards are going to result in no knifes or weapons or bombs slipping through the cracks.

Metal Detectors don't work for the same reason gun control doesn't work. The properly motivated can STILL get their hands on weapons. They can still sneak in the ingredients for bombs.

My solution actually addresses the PROBLEM. It's PROACTIVE. Not reactive. And... unlike metal detectors-- it actually works.

If more people like YOU started thinking past your fear and started doing research for the causes of violence, instead of throwing armed guards and metal detectors at every little thing you don't understand... then it COULD become reality. Easily.

Therein lies the problem--they USED to be safe places to learn, but they are not anymore. I am a parent of two young children who will be going to school soon, and while it is exciting, DH and I are very nervous to send them to school. Newtown especially changed things for me. And I know many parents who feel the exact same way, lest you accuse me of being some overwrought basket case. When it comes to our kids, most parents are.

Regardless, I think it will become more commonplace to have increased security in schools. Many already do have metal detectors and public safety officers.

 

[kenny]

I wonder how many of these things happen, even if just in-part, because the perpetrator knows the media is going to make them famous, instantly, for free.

I think it sucks how our society, especially youth, overvalues famous people.

 

[Sky56]

I agree with Gypsy. I'd hate to lose more freedom for a feeling of safety.

I think some of this can be prevented if schools were stricter about a "no bullying" policy on the playground, in the classrooms and halls and school buses.

Kids can be atrociously mean. Most bullied kids don't lash out, but it seems that there is a pattern with outcasted, bullied students committing these acts.

 

[Gypsy]

Laila, you may not feel like you live in a police state. But when I consider the world I see compared to the one I grew up in. I despair and I feel strongly that the trade offs of my personal liberties for the ILLUSION (not the reality) of safety has come at too high a cost.

You want to live in a nanny state? That's fine. But many of us don't. There are other solutions, and seeking to find them-- even if they might be the HARDER road than simply adding armed guards and metal detectors doesn't make it the wrong road. In fact, the harder road is often the right road. And giving in to fear and sacrificing our liberties for the illusion of safety, while easier, is not and will never be the right road.

It's just like 9/11. The terrorists struck and killed people. But WE are the ones who gave into fear and sacrificed our liberty for the false safety of the Patriot Act. And I bitterly regret that. And the fact that I was against it AT THE TIME, is cold comfort.

And yes, schools ARE STILL centers for learning and safety. Despite what the ratings hogging media wants you to think. What threatens that isn't the school shootings and stabbings it's the fearmongering that you are, sadly, advocating that makes people put armed guards in schools and teaches our children that it's okay to treat them like criminals when the walk in the door of a place that is supposed to be a haven.

Treating schools like they are courthouses is part of the problem. Not the solution.

 

[nkarma]

I don't understand why we can't have metal detectors and armed guards at schools. Who cares if it's expensive? What is more important than protecting our children?!

They have armed guards & trained military personnel, enhanced security on military bases. Don't think that will help much?

 

[TC1987]

Armed guards in schools: Stop and figure, just how many armed off-duty cops could be roving around discretely in a shopping center, in a WalMart, how many armed plainclothes police are walking around in crowds. How many uniformed or plainclothes State Police might be in the university football stadium at a game. And you don't even notice them. Or object to them. And probably don't even look around to see if anyone looks like one. I don't see anything "bad" about armed guards and metal detector in a school. Kids have probably gone to an airport to see someone off on a trip, if nothing else, and they had to pass through a metal detector. Having those in a school would do something more than "nothing" to help protect staff, teachers, and kids from any nut job coming in there. You only see "being treated like a criminal" if someone has suggested that idea to you, right? Are you "treated like a criminal" every time you go through Security to board a plane, or enter a federal building, or go to the Social Security office? Or does it somehow make you feel a bit relieved that at least someone is trying to keep the nut jobs and killers OUT?