2 diamonds-NO CERT-What do I do?

[harmon]

I have been looking for a 1.5 radiant. My husband does not want to use an online vendor (I guess he''s really old fashioned). We are using a jeweler who we have worked with several times. It is a very reputable jeweler who has been in business for a long time and most all of my friends and family have purchased diamonds from them before. We purchased my husband''s Rolex and my Tag watch from this specific man and several other things over the years, but never a diamond. He has been looking for radiant for us and he called me today and said he got two in that he wanted me to see. I asked him if he could fax me the certs so I could show my husband. He said the diamonds are not certified and that they use in-house gemologists to do their inspections. He said they do this so that they can get their hands on diamonds quicker to show their customers and to keep costs down. He said that are very selective about the diamonds that they even bring in. I am really confused about what to do. I now feel like I don''t even want to see them and to top it all off they are both SI3. I didn''t even think i would consider an SI3 but he told me they were gorgeous stones and I needed to see them in person before I judged them. Is this typical? Is a certificate imperitive? If someone could give me some adivce I would really appreciate it. My instint is to trust this jeweler and just go for what I think, but I''m scared of making a mistake. I also feel like the price is high.
I really don''t think these two diamonds sound all that great, but with the whole no certification issue I wonder if I want him to be the one to keep looking for additional ones for me. My husband really likes this jeweler and has had good experiences, but I''m nervous.
Here is the info he gave me over the phone:

Radiant #1:

1.5 carat
SI3
F color
6.80x6.07x4.40
Depth 73
Table 75

Price: $7800

Radiant #2:

1.52 carat
SI3
I color
6.52x6.4x4.5
Depth 71
Table 72

Price: 7600

 

[diamondseeker2006]

All I can say is there is a LOT more protection for a consumer with one of these internet vendors than a local jeweler. On here we hear all the good and bad, and the vendors have a vested interest in being honest and treating people well. Not to mention we have price comparison and all stones are certified.

So would I consider an uncertified SI3? Nope. The better stones are going to be certified as they will then command a higher price. SI3 will be known as I1 on some certificates, too.

 

[harmon]

Thanks for your response. I guess I just really don''t know what to do. My husband is pretty adamant about going to an actual jewelry store ( I know it''s silly, but he''s fairly headstrong about this). I don''t know what my next step should be.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I can understand not wanting to buy from a total internet company. But there are regular jewelry stores around who have chosen to also have a website. We just bought a diamond for our anniversary from Good Old Gold and I can tell you honestly, we got a better diamond for a lower price than at any of our local jewelers (because I looked at what they had first). If you look at the site, you can see photos of the store and the staff. Jonathan is the gemologist there, and he is extremely honest and helpful. Winfleld''s is another. I really recommend at least showing your husband the Good Old Gold site. If for nothing else, just have him read the section on the 4 C''s. You''ll be better equipped to look at stones the more you know. Jonathan has access to a lot of high quality stones, and he will search for a specific stone when someone asks. There are many listed on the site as well.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Home/

 

[niceice]

Where to begin, oh where to begin... eek!

SI-3 is a middle ground that isn't recognized by a large portion of the gemological community who consider it to be a consumer white washing of the I-1 clarity grade. "Hmmm, I'd sure like to figure out a way to make more money out of this I-1 stuff that I've got laying about, the public is beginning to get this diamond grading thing down and realizes that I-1 clarity goods aren't eye clean... Hey, I've got an idea! What if we tell them that the clarity of this diamond is too nice to be graded as an I-1, but not quite good enough to be an SI-2 so we'll call it SI-3 and if the public swallows it, we can sell off all of our I-1 inventory for a slightly higher price because people know that SI clarity diamonds are nicer and therefore cost more!"...

There's nothing wrong with an I-1 clarity diamond, providing that you're aware that you are buying an I-1 clarity diamond and have been shown the inclusions under a lab scope and therefore know what you are buying... What bugs me about this situation is that you've got an in-store gemologist calling a diamond an SI-3 clarity when only one gemological laboratory in the world actually recognizes that grade and a lot of diamond dealers won't give their paper a second look. In order to obtain accurate price comps here on the forum, you'll probably have to run searches based on I-1 clarity diamonds, however there seems no reason to me, no reason at all, to even consider 1.50+ carat diamonds which aren't lab graded at a point in time when lab graded diamonds are readily available and in essence "industry standard" for larger stones nowadays... It was a little different twenty years ago when diamond treatments were rare, things like laser drilling and fracture filling and irradiation, etc. but such treatments are quite common now and about the only way for a consumer to minimize their exposure is to only consider lab graded diamonds. If you want to put the jeweler to the test, ask them to provide you with a few GIA or AGS graded diamonds of the same quality and see if the price suddenly sky rockets - oh that's right, they can't offer you diamonds of comparable quality in GIA or AGS graded goods because those two laboratories don't recognize the SI-3 clarity grade... My mistake

but seriously, it doesn't cost that much to have the diamonds lab graded (maybe $150.00 with shipping) and for the type of money that you're spending wouldn't you rather have the opinion of a neautral third party as opposed to relying on the opinion of the seller? At the very least, make the sale subject to independent verification by one of the independent appraisers available here on PS via the Resources / Appraisers link available at the top of this page... You wouldn't dream of buying a house without an appraisal, would you?

I can appreciate the fact that your husband is reluctant to purchase a diamond from an internet vendor, but the funny thing is that practically all of the internet vendors provide much more detail to their clients than many traditonal brick and mortar retailers do... Many of the internet vendors here on PS automatically provide detailed clarity photographs for the diamonds that they sell, computerized proportions analysis, mathematical ray tracing results, computerized visual performance analysis indicating the brilliance, dispersion and scintillation of the stone. AND practically all of them will send the diamond that you select to an independent Graduate Gemologist for verification of the grade BEFORE you purchase the diamond (the gemological services and shipping are generally at your expense) and practically everything that they are selling over a third of a carat has been lab graded! So should you expect any less from your local jeweler in terms of documentation and disclosure? It's one thing to purchase a name brand watch that comes off of an assembly line, all of them are produced to the same standard and they are sold by model number, you can shop by model number, compare price by model number, etc. the opinion of the seller with regard to the potential perfection of each individual watch never really comes into play because you are purchasing a production piece... Diamonds might as well be on a different planet, every diamond is unique, the clarity characteristics are different within every diamond just as two snow flakes are never the same - they may be similar, but each one is different (or so I'm told, I can't say that I've examined too many snowflakes but I've seen enough diamonds that I still see diamonds at the end of the day when I close my eyes).

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/27/2006 12:51:31 AM
Author: harmon
Thanks for your response. I guess I just really don''t know what to do. My husband is pretty adamant about going to an actual jewelry store ( I know it''s silly, but he''s fairly headstrong about this). I don''t know what my next step should be.

what about investing in travel to one of the storefronts of an internet vendor so that your dh can feel as though he were in a jewelry store... I bet you can prove to him that he''ll still save money even with the travel. Have him read this thread as well as others...

 

[niceice]

Date: 7/27/2006 12:37:36 AM
Author:harmon
Radiant #1:
1.5 carat
SI3
F color
6.80x6.07x4.40
Depth 73
Table 75
Price: $7800

Radiant #2:
1.52 carat
SI3
I color
6.52x6.4x4.5
Depth 71
Table 72
Price: 7600

Oh, I almost forgot... Is anybody else on the forum having a challenge believing that two diamonds over the 1.50 carat mark, within two points of one another and allegedly of the same clarity grade BUT which are THREE color grades apart are priced within TWO HUNDRED dollars of one another?!?! The price per carat difference on the Rap sheet (think Kelly Blue Book for the diamond world) is $1,100.00 per carat - which would make it something like $7,650.00 for diamond number one (based on current Rap) and more like $6,120.00 for diamond number two, that is of course assuming that the cut quality, polish and symmetry ratings are the same for both diamonds...

 

[harmon]

Nice Ice, Thank you so much for you details. I think I''ll just have my husband read your post!!!


DiamondSeeker and Cehrabehra-Thanks to you guys as well.

I am new at this and I just don''t want us to be taken!

What I don''t understand is why does the diamonds he wants to show me do not have certificates and some others in their stores might? Would it be appropriate for me to tell him I only want to see diamonds that have certification? What is the protocol for this type of thing?

Hopefully I can convice my husband to do some online searces and see if he''ll budge.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/27/2006 1:37:05 AM
Author: harmon
Nice Ice, Thank you so much for you details. I think I''ll just have my husband read your post!!!


DiamondSeeker and Cehrabehra-Thanks to you guys as well.

I am new at this and I just don''t want us to be taken!

What I don''t understand is why does the diamonds he wants to show me do not have certificates and some others in their stores might? Would it be appropriate for me to tell him I only want to see diamonds that have certification? What is the protocol for this type of thing?

Hopefully I can convice my husband to do some online searces and see if he''ll budge.

He might, in time! good luck! My husband did - he was VERY skeptical and wanted to go to shane co LOL I''ve talked him down from that particular cliff LOL

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/27/2006 1:37:05 AM
Author: harmon
Nice Ice, Thank you so much for you details. I think I''ll just have my husband read your post!!!



DiamondSeeker and Cehrabehra-Thanks to you guys as well.


I am new at this and I just don''t want us to be taken!


What I don''t understand is why does the diamonds he wants to show me do not have certificates and some others in their stores might? Would it be appropriate for me to tell him I only want to see diamonds that have certification? What is the protocol for this type of thing?


Hopefully I can convice my husband to do some online searces and see if he''ll budge.

Hi Harmon!

Please tell your husband, whlie we understand his hesitancy to buy from the internet, buying from a B&M assures you nothing, except you can actually walk in the store, and get your pieces checked and cleaned.

I was almost taken from one in my area, and after acquiring a loupe, found out I WAS taken on a pair of studs bought years ago. It''s a long story, but the gist of it is, one set of stones were shown, a second set was set, at 3 clarity levels lower.

Both of these were "supposedly" long time, respected jewelers.

I know it DOES seem scary, but in reality, for me, buying from a B&M was far scarier. I will never make another important purchase from one. But that is not to say they are all bad, they aren''t.

If hubby insists on buying local, fine. But do your homework, insist on a certified diamond (that is your right), and if you do find one you think you want to purchase, make the jeweler agree that if it does not correlate with the cert and pass inspection with an INDEPENDANT appraisor, it can be returned.

Hope this helps.

 

[harmon]

It does help. Thanks everyone for your information and support

 

[Eva17]

Harmon, don''t forget to ask if the stone has been repaired at all? Laser enhanced, filled, etc.... If it''s not certified, there is no way of knowing till you have it appriased or the jeweler is upfront with you.....

 

[asscherisme]

I would not do it. Nope, I would not do it. An SI3 is an I1 if you are lucky.

Also, stones may look great under those store lights but not under real conditions that you live under. Afterall you don't walk around under jewlery store lights all day.

A lot of internet vender actually have real stores or at least offices where you can see diamonds in person. Are you close to one?

If not, you would be better off paying for a weekend trip to see some stones in person than

Or have a vendor that is willing to send stones to an indepentent appraiser near you.