2 ct. certified vs. non-certified diamond

[scnyc82]

Hi - I am beginning to look for an engagement ring, three-stone princess, around 2 ct G color, with .5 ct on each side. I''ve been told to avoid anything that has already been set and is not certified. With that said, I met with a jeweler who presented an already set ring basically exactly the specs i mentioned above. It''s pretty much what I''m looking for. The problem is it is not certified. She says it''s a Vs1 or 2 and G color. From looking at it and seeing other stones with grading charts, i can say it looks great, color/clarity etc. However, i obviously am no pro, so it''s hard for me to compare to other stones i''m seeing with respects to the exact cut specs.

So my question is, why wouldn''t this have already been certified and should i reject something outright b/c it isn''t certified? The jeweler is reputable, with a great location in manhattan, and has been providing high-end jewerly to people I know for a long time. Basically, I trust that her assessment is true. And I''m pretty sure she would allow me to get an independent appraisal to verify what she says. I think i can also take it and get it certified at GIA in manhattan as well. So i guess i''m wondering whether i should be suspicious or not. Is there any downside if i purchased and got it certfiied myself at GIA here in the city? i think she might accept a return if the cert. came in below what she says.

 

[stone-cold11]

mainly because the price difference between a graded stone by GIA/AGS vs an in-house graded stone can mean a jump in selling price of as much as 40%. Only a fool of a vendor would not send it to GIA/AGS for grading for that increase in profit if he thinks the stone is really the grade he is stating it to be.

Ask the jeweler to unmount the stone and send it to GIA for you. If it comes back the same grade, you will pay for the additional cost of the grading, else she eats the bill and you walk away.

 

[Tom Gelb]

I tend to agree. I would also add that getting it graded by the GIA is not easy since it must be unmounted for them to grade it. Assuming you went through that cost and trouble, and the cost of a GIA report and your lost time, you may no longer be ahead of the game even if it came back at the stated quality. Any high value stone comes with a report nowadays, and those without one should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Good luck.

 

[yssie]

ditto sc - every word.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 3/18/2010 10:00:47 AM
Author:scnyc82
Is there any downside if i purchased and got it certfiied myself at GIA here in the city? i think she might accept a return if the cert. came in below what she says.

Hi Scott,

The downside is threefold. First, GIA will only grade unmounted stones. This usually isn't a great problem with most designs but you should NOT be disassembling a piece if there is any possibility that you will be returning it later unless she is specifically involved. With many, in fact most, dealers this will void your return privilege. Frankly I recommend that you insist SHE be the one who does the unmounting and resetting if you want it to go to GIA.

The second is with the lab fees on a stone that fails to meet your approval and that you decide to return. GIA, of course, expects to be paid for their work. If you end up owning it, it's entirely fair that you be responsible for the bill but what happens on a stone that you don't end up buying?

Lastly, most jewelers put an expiration date on the return policy and often it's fairly tight. Make sure that you'll be able to get the stone to GIA, that they'll have time to complete their work and get it back to you and that you'll have time to get it back to the jeweler if needed before the clock runs out. You may also have deadlines of your own to deal with and may not be interested in waiting for the results on a stone that you may or may not end up with.

I agree with the above advice that the dealer should be the one doing this, not you. The fact that it hasn't already been done is a bad sign.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[MichelleCarmen]

If it's a great stone, it would be certified. Even so-so stones in many jewelry stores are certified, just with less reputable labs.

You're talking a 2-ct stone. Why pay for a diamond THAT large and not know if you're getting what is promised? Even with small diamonds I pay the extra to be sure the stones are what stated to be.

Also, for $25, you can get an ideal scope to determine how well-cut the diamond is.

 

[scnyc82]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Obviously my motivation in even considering this is that I could save 5-10K, as the stone might be that much more if already certified, therefore the out of pocket cost of certifying it myself would be worth it by comparison. I have a few months to work on this, so I''m fairly certain that I could get it certified and if it wasn''t what it was made out to be she would take it back - with her handling un-setting the stones for GIA and covering costs if it comes in below par... I consider this to be a trustworthy source based on the reference and products she''s provided to them. But of course, it just makes no sense for her (economically) not to have already done this, unless there''s either something to hide on the stone, or she''s really just trying to help me out.

If she certified it, does she HAVE to price differently, or could she still offer the same price?

i started out very skeptical of this, and the feedback here has certainly reaffirmed that. I have a few other places to go, so this is just one option out there, and the cost of what appears to be a very good stone, certainly peaked my interest. Ultimately though, as i''ll be spending a lot, i''m not opposed to spending a bit more for piece of mind. Just wanted to see what the sentiment was on this type of thing (ie, getting the cert. myself with possible return option) from people who know more than i do.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 3/18/2010 2:43:36 PM
Author: scnyc82
If she certified it, does she HAVE to price differently, or could she still offer the same price?

That is up to whatever deal you make with her.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/18/2010 2:49:42 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 3/18/2010 2:43:36 PM
Author: scnyc82
If she certified it, does she HAVE to price differently, or could she still offer the same price?

That is up to whatever deal you make with her.

Ditto. Get it all in writing first. But I would not buy a stone without a cert, especially not of that size and price.

 

[kenny]

People selling diamonds are smart.
They are not going to sell a diamond without a report for $5000 or $10,000 less than it would be worth with a report.

The whole point of a report is an independent authority telling you the stone's specs.

Let me say this another way.
G VS1 diamonds with no report are NOT going to get G VS1 from GIA or AGS.
If they would the sellers would get the report so they could charge more.

There are no deals on diamonds.

 

[denverappraiser]

You’re making a huge assumption here, namely that lack of a $154 report makes a $5000 - $10000 difference in the price of the stone. This is simply not correct. If it were true, she wouldn’t have even had the opportunity to do it because her supplier would have already done it before she ever saw it. It’s not at all out of the question that it HAS already been submitted to GIA, by either her or her supplier, and they determined that they could sell the stone for more and/or faster with the paperwork it’s got. Why might a generic pedigree be preferable? Differences in the color & clarity grading approach, a desire to avoid the GIA cut grading scale or something in the ‘comments’ section that they think will make it hard to sell. Tiny details make a big difference in this business and the difference between a VS1/G and a VS2/I is remarkably subtle if you don’t have practice at it (and sometimes even if you do). The difference between a VG cut and a G and even some F’s is equally subtle. That’s why people want to use labs and that’s why it’s important to choose a lab that you’re otherwise inclined to trust. It didn’t just happen that this stone has no paperwork, it was a deliberate decision. The question on the table is WHY.

She can set her prices however she wants, and she can give you whatever ‘deal’ she wants, but what you’re suggesting here simply doesn’t pass the smell test.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/18/2010 3:22:46 PM
Author: kenny
There are no deals on diamonds.

Yup true.