Would a clear yet visible crystal inclusion acceptable?

[TreeScientist]

I would definitely wait for your update.

I did not know that JP don't carry any SI diamonds. Let me check with my friend.
Did you enquire on pricing for JP's VS just to have a feel on their pricing vs ACA/ CBI/ BGD?
andif you love fluoro maybe you could also check out Brian Gavin Blue and check if they have anything in stock where you could see during your visit in US. Would love to get your feedback on how CBI/ ACA/ BGD stone compared to one another and also against JP super ideal

Do you find H too yellow too? My gf could see some yellow tint in a G color HOF diamond. We actually went to Tiffany once and she was OK with their H but it was under their jewelry lighting and not under normal lighting. Or maybe Tiffany has higher standard in grading color compared to AGS/GIA?

I'm guessing that JP does occasionally carry SI diamonds (like your friend's diamond) but they probably don't always have them in stock. VS and above likely comprise the large majority of their sales given the preference for higher clarity diamonds in Asia. You would need to inquire with them to see if they'll be getting any more SI diamonds in their SuperIdeal line in the near future.

Regarding color, I personally find H to be too yellow, even from the face-up position, but I'm very color sensitive. Color preferences are highly personal. At G and above, the differences are not as immediately obvious to me. I could still tell, say, an E from a G, but I would need to look at the diamond from the side for a few seconds.

I agree with @icy_jade that the most important thing is your girlfriend's preferences, since she's the one that will be wearing it. I would caution basing your preferences on what you saw under jewelry store lighting though, as jewelry store lights make pretty much every diamond appear white (their light sources put out a large amount of light in the blue spectrum to counteract yellow). Tiffany may be a bit stricter on color than GIA, but I don't think it would be enough to where your girlfriend would not see color in their H but would see color in a HOF G.

To determine color preference, take the diamond into a normally lit room with fluorescent (office) or incandescent (home) lighting, as this is how you'll be viewing the diamond a majority of the time.

 

[Madsal]

@icy_jade wow you have eagle eyes! The #3 was the one I spot in the beginning. Is that feather inclusion? My friend said it was just a reflection as it does not exist in real life. Or maybe it is just he is not aware of it

I am now second guessing myself about getting an SI stone. And you're right that JP don't stock SI stone. According to my friend we can request like he did but that would pose a risk since I can't see the stone beforehand. I think in this case I'm leaning to get a smaller super ideal cut (the largest I could get within my budget with F/G VS) and drop the size below 2ct. Will probably do an upgrade sometime in the future.

 

[TreeScientist]

@icy_jade wow you have eagle eyes! The #3 was the one I spot in the beginning. Is that feather inclusion? My friend said it was just a reflection as it does not exist in real life. Or maybe it is just he is not aware of it

I am now second guessing myself about getting an SI stone. And you're right that JP don't stock SI stone. According to my friend we can request like he did but that would pose a risk since I can't see the stone beforehand. I think in this case I'm leaning to get a smaller super ideal cut (the largest I could get within my budget with F/G VS) and drop the size below 2ct. Will probably do an upgrade sometime in the future.

I totally agree with you @Madsal. To me, your friend's diamond is absolutely beautiful, and probably the best that you could hope for in an SI2 stone (only white/transparent inclusions and no inclusions affecting transparency). But I would never want to request a special order for an SI clarity stone without being able to see it, as the SI clarity grade is all over the map in terms of the affect that the inclusions may have on the transparency and beauty of a diamond.

I think a slightly smaller SuperIdeal would be a great option for you. As you probably already know, there's significant price jumps at the "magic" carat weights (0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, etc.). If your girlfriend does not care too much about hitting one of these magic numbers, then you could probably get a 1.8 carat with a significantly higher color and clarity, like an E-F VS diamond, for the same price as a 2 carat H/SI. If it were me, I would take a slightly smaller diamond in the colorless/VS range over a larger diamond, but you should check with your girlfriend to see what she wants, and if she cares about her diamond hitting the 2 carat mark.

For reference, here's a comparison of a well-cut 1.8 carat vs a well-cut 2 carat on a US size 5 (Asian size 9) finger. Both look great to me.

 

[icy_jade]

@icy_jade wow you have eagle eyes! The #3 was the one I spot in the beginning. Is that feather inclusion? My friend said it was just a reflection as it does not exist in real life. Or maybe it is just he is not aware of it

I am now second guessing myself about getting an SI stone. And you're right that JP don't stock SI stone. According to my friend we can request like he did but that would pose a risk since I can't see the stone beforehand. I think in this case I'm leaning to get a smaller super ideal cut (the largest I could get within my budget with F/G VS) and drop the size below 2ct. Will probably do an upgrade sometime in the future.

I spotted #1 immediately... is that the feather? #3 I wasn’t sure and thought could be reflection, along with #2.

The cert should show the plot so your friend should know lah.

If SI clarity is only upon request, then I’ll rather go for ACA or CBI since they provide videos and all the various different pics. That way, no need to compromise on size. Or, ask JP to source for an AGS diamond with video provided on the AGS site. That way you can see the diamond via the video before you commit to it.

I’m quite ‘practical’ in that sense so I’ll go for what is obvious:
- carat: size is pretty obvious. A 0.1mm diff is obvious so what more 0.2mm or more due to smaller carat weight?
- color: depends on how sensitive you are and how you plan to set the diamond. Frankly I would have gone lower if I can but like I said H was pretty obvious to me so I can’t. They all face up pretty white, esp if cutting is good. And make sure the setting not so simple that the side is too naked and I think should be fine lol...
- clarity: ok so I get that better clarity can result in better light return etc. But otherwise it’s not the most obvious thing in the world. Like no one will tell you “hey the diamond is soooo clear” right? You’ll get comments on size, sparkiness, color but not clarity unless the inclusions are super obvious (like the one on your friend’s diamond).

We are all here so obviously cut matters ya.

So for me since cut is really important, I can somewhat compromise on color and go down in clarity unless the inclusions are super obvious.

Size really matters to me... but then again I have huge fingers so a 2 carat on me probably is visually the same as a 1 carat on a US size 5
I saw a 3 carat diamond on IG recently and between a well cut 2 carat and a normal 3 I think I will go for a 3 assuming price, color, etc is the same. Not that it will happen but just saying hypothetically.

 

[latte_espresso]

Yes I agree. Just thinking whether there are eye clean SI stones that do not have transparency issue. Like @TreeScientist mentioned I would also prefer a totally clear and sparkly stone with a crystal over a cloudy/ dull stone due to other type of inclusions. I think I read it somewhere here where Garry Holloway mentioned that there is no such thing of an eye clean SI without compromising in other aspect.



@latte_espresso so i guess your stone is similar in which you can see the crystal up close? Does the crystal disappear beyond certain distance? Of course I assume you did not find it bothering hence you decided to get it? Has your SO seen it?


It disappears beyond a certain distance. My SO saw a few I stones (clarity) at Zales and were content with them. So I feel very comfortable with a clear inclusion.

 

[Madsal]

#1 is the crystal inclusion
#3 according to him is just a reflection.

It's not possible that a 2ct diamond will look like a 1ct on a size 5, I don't think. But anyway as far as I am aware in Singapore not many wear a 1ct ring and especially not 2ct so yours will definitely look very large despite your finger size.

I spotted #1 immediately... is that the feather? #3 I wasn’t sure and thought could be reflection, along with #2.

The cert should show the plot so your friend should know lah.

If SI clarity is only upon request, then I’ll rather go for ACA or CBI since they provide videos and all the various different pics. That way, no need to compromise on size. Or, ask JP to source for an AGS diamond with video provided on the AGS site. That way you can see the diamond via the video before you commit to it.

I’m quite ‘practical’ in that sense so I’ll go for what is obvious:
- carat: size is pretty obvious. A 0.1mm diff is obvious so what more 0.2mm or more due to smaller carat weight?
- color: depends on how sensitive you are and how you plan to set the diamond. Frankly I would have gone lower if I can but like I said H was pretty obvious to me so I can’t. They all face up pretty white, esp if cutting is good. And make sure the setting not so simple that the side is too naked and I think should be fine lol...
- clarity: ok so I get that better clarity can result in better light return etc. But otherwise it’s not the most obvious thing in the world. Like no one will tell you “hey the diamond is soooo clear” right? You’ll get comments on size, sparkiness, color but not clarity unless the inclusions are super obvious (like the one on your friend’s diamond).

We are all here so obviously cut matters ya.

So for me since cut is really important, I can somewhat compromise on color and go down in clarity unless the inclusions are super obvious.

Size really matters to me... but then again I have huge fingers so a 2 carat on me probably is visually the same as a 1 carat on a US size 5
I saw a 3 carat diamond on IG recently and between a well cut 2 carat and a normal 3 I think I will go for a 3 assuming price, color, etc is the same. Not that it will happen but just saying hypothetically.

 

[Madsal]

@latte_espresso just seen your previous thread about the diamond you are getting. Isn't the stone you are getting previously owned by @Drizzle

This is the one from Drizzle's thread. It looks identical to yours except your certificate is dated May 2018 and Drizzle's was purchased earlier.


Just wondering why the stone needed a new certificate, and @Drizzle did you exchange your diamond eventually? Did the inclusion bother you?

 

[latte_espresso]

@latte_espresso just seen your previous thread about the diamond you are getting. Isn't the stone you are getting previously owned by @Drizzle

This is the one from Drizzle's thread. It looks identical to yours except your certificate is dated May 2018 and Drizzle's was purchased earlier.


Just wondering why the stone needed a new certificate, and @Drizzle did you exchange your diamond eventually? Did the inclusion bother you?

Wow, the AGS number is exactly the same. So it appears that it is the same stone. I'm very surprised as I was told that my stone was a new stone. Hopefully HPD and the team can clarify this.

 

[sledge]

1.922ct, G, VS2, ACA super ideal - $24,700 wire price
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3905126.htm

 

[Madsal]

Do let me know @latte_espresso I'm curious!

Wow, the AGS number is exactly the same. So it appears that it is the same stone. I'm very surprised as I was told that my stone was a new stone. Hopefully HPD and the team can clarify this.

 

[icy_jade]

@latte_espresso did you manage to get a response from HPD?

Paging @Drizzle too...

 

[Miki Moto]

Isn’t this standard practice?
A dealer buys a used stone as a trade-in. The dealer is certainly going to polish it up and make it look nice and pretty, send it off to get a new report based on the condition of this newly polished stone. No one is going to buy a stone with an old report as they will think it’s an old stone or a stone no one wants.

Where do you think all these trade-in stones end up? I think it’s standard practice and nothing wrong as long as it’s been polished up and it’s the stone I like with the latest report.

I do not think for one minute all the stones online with new reports are “brand new” stones.

Maybe I am wrong and someone can correct me. But if I am wrong... then where do all the trade-in stones go?

 

[msop04]

If your girlfriend has specified her need for higher color and size to be the priority over clarity, I don't think you can ask for much more than this in an SI2... to my eyes, it's eye clean. My stone is a 3.33 ct GIA I/SI2 (white feather, eye clean TO ME), and I couldn't be happier... so obviously I'm open to clean SI stones.

 

[icy_jade]

Isn’t this standard practice?
A dealer buys a used stone as a trade-in. The dealer is certainly going to polish it up and make it look nice and pretty, send it off to get a new report based on the condition of this newly polished stone. No one is going to buy a stone with an old report as they will think it’s an old stone or a stone no one wants.

Where do you think all these trade-in stones end up? I think it’s standard practice and nothing wrong as long as it’s been polished up and it’s the stone I like with the latest report.

I do not think for one minute all the stones online with new reports are “brand new” stones.

Maybe I am wrong and someone can correct me. But if I am wrong... then where do all the trade-in stones go?

To me the issue is:
- @latte_espresso was told his diamond is new. If so but then he was sold an old stone, it sounds dishonest to me...
- there is a certain something associated with old stones. It sounds stupid even as I type it out but it’s like some stones may have bad mojo, just like old houses, etc and I wouldn’t want to unknowingly buy an “unlucky” stone you know? (very unscientific oops)
- @Drizzle posted such great videos and photos and her conclusion was that she will get a CBI. Now, if I’m wondering why she returned the very same CBI stone that she evaluated and came out as a winner at that time amongst the other stones she looked it. Did she not enjoy the “high contrast look”? Was it the SI clarity? As you know I’m considering a CBI right now so knowing why she decided to return the stone could be helpful in my long winded decision making process... as well as others who read her threads and were impressed enough to consider a CBI. Don’t you want to know too?

 

[Miki Moto]

To me the issue is:
- @latte_espresso was told his diamond is new. If so but then he was sold an old stone, it sounds dishonest to me...
- there is a certain something associated with old stones. It sounds stupid even as I type it out but it’s like some stones may have bad mojo, just like old houses, etc and I wouldn’t want to unknowingly buy an “unlucky” stone you know? (very unscientific oops)
- @Drizzle posted such great videos and photos and her conclusion was that she will get a CBI. Now, if I’m wondering why she returned the very same CBI stone that she evaluated and came out as a winner at that time amongst the other stones she looked it. Did she not enjoy the “high contrast look”? Was it the SI clarity? As you know I’m considering a CBI right now so knowing why she decided to return the stone could be helpful in my long winded decision making process... as well as others who read her threads and were impressed enough to consider a CBI. Don’t you want to know too?

Hi! My response was to the question of why a new report which sending in a stone to get a new report is standard practice.

As to your questions of why drizzle returned the diamond, it would be an interesting data point for me, but it would not factor in my decision. There are a lot of people here who love SI stones, and as you know for me, I have been there and it's not for me. On the high contrast of super ideals, I need to see with my eyes. I went there before too... my HOF is super ideal and I bought them because back then "super ideal" was the thing to buy... yeah, I know, I was far less educated on what a "super ideal" really meant. On PS, people love super ideal and love the contrast. However, when I compared a super ideal to an ideal (my e-ring), the ideal was far more sparkly. And ironically, the one thing I do not like is the high contrast, the "black & white", so if this is a trait of all super ideals, then perhaps super ideals are not for me.

As you know, I too am looking at CBI stones to upgrade my earrings.
These past days have really opened my eyes, and am 100% clear in what I want to do now thanks to you and @Madsal! Your thread which asked about low clarity stones resulted in a lot of responses overall about super ideals (very small market, not for everyone, not guaranteed better resell value) and @Madsal 's thread on how he has decided to go with with ideal GIA XXX instead of super ideal after comparing helped me put things in perspective again. It was a reality check for me that super ideals are not the end all, and I should stop forcing myself to love them (probably drinking too much PS kool-aid and I should stop that too). Don't get me wrong, super ideals are great stones and people here love them, but I can't seem to.

That said, I want to see CBI stones as my one last shot at super ideals. If I love them, then it is the secret sauce, and I will buy CBIs and order up some earrings. If not, then I will stop looking at super ideals because this will confirm to me super ideals are not the stones for me. I will stick to ideals and look for GIA XXX. In the end, the first priority for me is super sparkle (not contrast, not perfect little H&A, etc).

So... I'm thankful to you and @Madsal for finding your threads and seeing all the responses. It has really helped decide what to do over something I have been torn about... to super ideal or not and go with ideal GIA XXX. I shall know in two weeks!

 

[Miki Moto]

@icy_jade By the way, on old stones... there is no way you can find out if a stone is old. Once a person trades in a stone, I would bet it gets polished up and recycled and resold. Some may even get recut a bit. That would be the point of a trade in, so the dealer can resell it for a profit. And this would be true of buying a stone from any dealer... the stone may be new to him, but it may have been circulated before. Like my HOFs, they are 15 years old... I just got a new report on each stone. I bought eat stone loose, not as an earring pair, so they could easily be for an e-ring. If I sell them, my guess is the dealer who buys them will take them out of the mounting and sell them as loose stones perhaps for rings given each is 1ct and there is higher demand for a 1ct e-ring than a 2ctw earrings. The new buyer then thinks they are getting a new stone as the appraisal is dated only one month ago, but in reality, the stone is 15 years old.

I personally have no problem with this as I don't see diamonds as consumables... they are made to last! Who knows if my e-ring was a trade in also? And if I trade in my e-ring, then it gets polished up and resold.

I wish an expert could chime in and provide input if I am incorrect in this business model assumption. Where else would trade in stones go except to new buyers?

 

[Miki Moto]

To me the issue is:
- @latte_espresso was told his diamond is new. If so but then he was sold an old stone, it sounds dishonest to me...

I personally do not think any dishonesty was intended. "New' most likely meant "new to inventory", not "new, newly mined, out of the ground, never owned".

 

[John P]

Hello all. I was pointed here and asked to clarify the story of this Crafted by Infinity diamond.

A consumer viewing several CBI diamonds in Seattle during November initially selected this 2.31 carat for purchase. While the setting was being designed and created she continued to visit and view further options, and decided to jump to a different Crafted by Infinity diamond during that process.

Although this diamond never left the store, money had been collected for it by Green Lake Jewelry Works. The fact of a reported sale, even one where the diamond isn't set or worn, causes a situation where our policy is to have it returned and processed through AGS again for an updated report to verify it’s in perfect order, as an extra layer of consumer protection. That’s why the report shows a new date now.

I hope the information is helpful.

 

[latte_espresso]

@latte_espresso did you manage to get a response from HPD?

Paging @Drizzle too...

Hi Icy, I did get a response from HPD on Thursday morning to explain to me what happened. Apologies for keeping the suspense. I meant to clarify on the post, but was busy the past few days due to work.

Thanks John for stepping in.

 

[icy_jade]

Hi Icy, I did get a response from HPD on Thursday morning to explain to me what happened. Apologies for keeping the suspense. I meant to clarify on the post, but was busy the past few days due to work.

Thanks John for stepping in.

Happy to hear that everything worked out and as usual the customer service is great

Thank you @John Pollard for stepping in to explain,