1st time buyer help please/need to return diamond if this RB considered steep/deep. cut rated GIA VG

[heartsinexile]

hi,

i've been looking at engagement rings at a B&M store. unfortunately I found this forum after I bought the ring, but i can still exchange the ring within 30 days (no refund unfortunately).

the first RB I got was

1.08 carat
G
SI1
Cut Grade: Good,
Polish: EX
Symmetry: VG.
crown angle 32
pavilion angle 40.6

(don't have the other measurements since i don't have the gia report anymore). it scored a 1 on HCA with excellent on everything except on light return which was very good. As people have mentioned about shallow diamonds, I noticed when I looked at it closely, the center became dark and I saw what I thought was a faint fish eye effect (i guess this is the head blocking effect). if you looked at further away it looked good, but I was confused since it seemed to score well on the HCA. I was pretty bummed about this so I went in to return it to the store.

Since I didn't know better, I asked to be shown a diamond with a better cut grade from GIA. This one was

1.00 carat round brilliant,
measurements 6.31 - 6.38 x 3.98 mm
G
VS2
cut: very good.
finish: VG,
symmetry: vg,
table 58%
crown 37.5,
pavilion: 40.8,
depth 62.7%,
culet:none,
thin to thick girdle.
flourescence: none.

I exchanged it not knowing about the steep/deep cuts being graded well by GIA and actually had to pay a little more since the list price was more expensive than the first....i then put in the measurements in HCA and it showed 3.5 which shocked me since I paid a little more. then i found this forum and read a lot of posts about the steep/deep angles and felt angry....ugh this is so frustrating.

so now my problem is, I can only return the ring for exchanges so should I get the first ring back. the person is going to look for other ones and I asked him to send me the measurements from the GIA report before I go to the store so I can quickly run it through HCA. What proportions do I need to avoid for cuts which are graded GIA EX or VG

thanks for any assistance. i really appreciate it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ask for GIA Excellent first of all, and then you'll be in better shape. Then look over at the requirements for a stone to be in the American ideal cut 1A category here:

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/round.asp

This is a great guideline to go by. You could even copy off the numbers and give it to the jeweler. At least you found this site before the 30 days was up! Good luck and don't settle for less than an ideal cut diamond! (you definitely don't want that first diamond either)

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/24/2006 12:57:51 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Ask for GIA Excellent first of all, and then you''ll be in better shape. Then look over at the requirements for a stone to be in the American ideal cut 1A category here:

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/round.asp

This is a great guideline to go by. You could even copy off the numbers and give it to the jeweler. At least you found this site before the 30 days was up! Good luck and don''t settle for less than an ideal cut diamond! (you definitely don''t want that first diamond either)

Ditto.

 

[Oleander]

While the numbers can tell you a lot about a stone, they don''t tell the whole story; they are a guideline. Do you like the look of the stone? If not, then exchange it. But I would not dismiss a stone just because of the numbers. Some stones that look bad on paper look great in real life, like mine.

Of course, I am biased.

You mention a dark center--I would probably return a stone with that since I like a lot of scintillation and brightness. I just wanted to mention to you that you should trust your eyes when you see a well-performing stone, even if the numbers aren''t perfect.

 

[heartsinexile]

great. thanks for the reply! i gave the info to the jeweler, now i just hope he can find one''s with those requirements.

so far he gave me the info for one which was the closest to those measurements and it is:

depth 59.7%
table 60%
Crown 34 degrees (13.5%)
Pavilion 41.4 degrees (44%)
girdle: thin to medium
culet: none
symmetry: VG
polish: VG

I got excited because all but one criteria (pavilion depth) are in class 1B (although some are close to the extremes of the ranges)) but then I put the info in HCA and it was a 5.1!!! Should I not even bother to look at it, or is it possible it is OK? Is the AGA grade scale for 2A''s not accurate sometimes?

thanks again.

 

[JulieN]

GIA EX cuts are...just by the number of possible combinations of table, crown, and pavilion, are more likely to be steep deep than VG, if we say that the steep/deep set of EX and steep/deep set of VG are the same (that is, you cannot have a steeper/deeper stone than the steepest/deepest GIA ex.)

Ok, what i mean is that GIA EX doesn't have anything to do with if it's steep/deep or not, and those stones that are just slightly shallow and barely miss GIA EX and are VG could be something you like! The reason why your stone got VG is bc of the girdle.

HCA does a better job than AGA because it considers the combination of table, crown, and pavilion. 1A/B with HCA<2 and thin-slt thick girdle is where you want to be, IMO.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 9/24/2006 3:46:01 PM
Author: JulieN
GIA EX cuts are...just by the number of possible combinations of table, crown, and pavilion, are more likely to be steep deep than VG, if we say that the steep/deep set of EX and steep/deep set of VG are the same (that is, you cannot have a steeper/deeper stone than the steepest/deepest GIA ex.)

Ok, what i mean is that GIA EX doesn''t have anything to do with if it''s steep/deep or not, and those stones that are just slightly shallow and barely miss GIA EX and are VG could be something you like! The reason why your stone got VG is bc of the girdle.

HCA does a better job than AGA because it considers the combination of table, crown, and pavilion. 1A/B with HCA<2 and thin-slt thick girdle is where you want to be, IMO.

Oh, absolutely keep plugging the numbers in to the HCA and go for a result of 0-2. I just figured you needed something numerical to tell the jeweler to narrow down the field a bit.

 

[heartsinexile]

hello again, Just wanted to provide an update to those who responded to my post and say thanks!! The jeweler was able to get me a diamond that met the requirements of 1A/1B. The only criteria which placed it in 1B was the depth. I actually got a larger stone with a better cut without having to pay more than I paid for the last one I got.

Here's the GIA specs of the new one I got:


Round Brilliant
Measurments: 6.57 - 6.61 X 4.11 mm

1.10 carat
color: G
clarity grade: VS2
Cut Grade: EX

Polish: VG
Symmetry: EX
Flourescense: None

Comments: None

Table: 57%
Star: 55%
Crown depth: 15%
Crown angle: 34.5
girdle: thin to slightly thick (faceted)
pavilion depth: 43%
Pavilion angle: 40.8
lower half: 80%
Total depth: 62.4%
culet: none

I know it's probably a little deeper than most people would like, but I think this was the best the jeweler had, and it's so much better than the first two I got. Thanks again!! I'm so glad I found this forum.

 

[Mara]

this is the first time i saw this post and i was scrolling down thinking each stone looked worse than the last!! haha.

so then i saw your last post, and i thought okay WHEW at least this stone is definitely the best of the bunch based on #'s and has great crown and pav angles. does your eye see a visual difference in this stone vs the 40.6 one vs the 37.5 crown one (that is an INSANE crown angle sure you didn't mean 35.7?)??

hope you love it and glad you found the site!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/7/2006 1:58:47 PM
Author: heartsinexile
hello again, Just wanted to provide an update to those who responded to my post and say thanks!! The jeweler was able to get me a diamond that met the requirements of 1A/1B. The only criteria which placed it in 1B was the depth. I actually got a larger stone with a better cut without having to pay more than I paid for the last one I got.

Here's the GIA specs of the new one I got:


Round Brilliant
Measurments: 6.57 - 6.61 X 4.11 mm

1.10 carat
color: G
clarity grade: VS2
Cut Grade: EX

Polish: VG
Symmetry: EX
Flourescense: None

Comments: None

Table: 57%
Star: 55%
Crown depth: 15%
Crown angle: 34.5
girdle: think to slightly thick (faceted)
pavilion depth: 43%
Pavilion angle: 40.8
lower half: 80%
Total depth: 62.4%
culet: none

I know it's probably a little deeper than most people would like, but I think this was the best the jeweler had, and it's so much better than the first two I got. Thanks again!! I'm so glad I found this forum.

This has the indications of a great diamond. The girdle thickness is causing the extra depth and a little bit of 'hidden weight,' but nothing to worry about.

I'd reiterate what others have offered about the importance of the combination of crown and pavilion angle averages. Those above are in a 'sweet spot' at the heart of commonly accepted top performing ranges.

 

[kcoursolle]

The last one of the bunch is the only one I would consider. Yeah, it''s a tad deep...but not excessively. I would want to pay a little less for the stone since it faces up smaller than it''s carat weight.

 

[heartsinexile]

Date: 10/7/2006 2:05:53 PM
Author: Mara
this is the first time i saw this post and i was scrolling down thinking each stone looked worse than the last!! haha.

so then i saw your last post, and i thought okay WHEW at least this stone is definitely the best of the bunch based on #'s and has great crown and pav angles. does your eye see a visual difference in this stone vs the 40.6 one vs the 37.5 crown one (that is an INSANE crown angle sure you didn't mean 35.7?)??


hope you love it and glad you found the site!

Yes the angle was 37.5 (it was not a typo). I started to panic when I was browsing old posts and it seemed like there weren't too many out there with crown angles above 35. I was surprised no one else commented about such a steep crown angle.

Yes the difference to me is much more noticeable, I see a lot more fire in this stone than the others. (in bright daylight the fire/dispersion is actually blinding!) The first one was very bright but had no contrast, and had the darkening of the center when I looked at it close. The 37.5 one looked OK in the store and had better optical symmetry than the first, but was dark in most other lighting. My new one performs well in all types of light. I'm very happy with it!

I will be proposing to my girlfriend sometime early next year and am glad the search is over. She is usually with me most of the time, and luckily she hasn't been around while I've gone back and forth to the jewelry store, so she has no idea about this.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yay!!!

Good for you for pressing your jeweler to get you an excellent cut diamond! I think you did great! (So why are you making her wait until the first of the year to get this beauty on her finger?!

)

 

[Rhino]

Def... good job hearts. You''ve got a nice cherry combo of proportions there.

 

[firebirdgold]

Very nice choice of diamonds! I''m sure it''s gorgeous.

So... what kind of setting are you putting that beauty into?

 

[heartsinexile]

Date: 10/8/2006 12:09:53 PM
Author: IndieJones
Very nice choice of diamonds! I''m sure it''s gorgeous.


So... what kind of setting are you putting that beauty into?

Just a simple white gold six prong tiffany style setting.