1.94 RB J Opinions Please

[congaboy77]

I''d like to start by saying "thank you" to everyone here for the wealth of information they provide. This site has definitely helped me out a tremendous amount in the diamond/engagement ring purchasing process. I''m finally posting to find out how I did on the stone that I purchased.

To start at the beginning, my friend purchased an engagement ring from a jeweler who came highly recommended. After the ring was created, he took the ring to an appraiser who examined it, verified some details, and then told him "you have a jeweler for life." Not a bad recommendation from an independent appraiser. This jeweler was located in a different city than where I live. When I was in town, I stopped by his establishment to speak with him and get to know him. I wanted to make sure he was someone I felt comfortable working with. I told him that I wasn''t ready to make a purchase, but wanted to stop by and introduce myself b/c the purchases I would be making would be over the phone. He spent over an hour with me showing me a variety of stones trying to refine what I was looking for. Great guy, felt very comfortable when I left.

I knew I wanted a round brilliant 1.5ct or above. Future fiance is expecting a round brilliant around 1 ct or less. I wanted something with a good amount of fire and no visible inclusions. As far as color, we were looking in the G-H-I range. At that point he showed me a 1.73ct I or J (can''t remember). I thought it was a great stone, well cut, solid presence with no visible inclusions. Color wasn''t a problem. The price was well within my range. During this time, he also showed me some stones which I rejected. This way, he knew my tolerance level.

I went home, started to think about it, and decided it was best to jump on the stone when I had the chance. I had been looking for a while and this is the first stone that had any appeal to me. When I called to talk about it, he told me about a stone he had just brought into his inventory, a 1.94ct RB J. He thought very highly of the stone. My main worry was color (J technically isn''t "colorless"). He said that it would be difficult to tell that it was a J b/c of the cut. I was still a bit worried and had my friend who is well researched stop by and take a look in person. He said it was a beautiful stone and I should jump on it as fast as I could-- so I did. Shhh, don''t tell the future fiance-- she has no idea.

Unfortunately, the cert is an EGL. However, w/ the verification of my friend, I still felt ok with the purchase. Now I come to you to get some opinions. The jeweler is great, he said if I didn''t like the stone, I could swap it out without any problems.

1.94ct
Measurements: 8.24 -8.02 x 4.86
Depth: 59.7%
Table: 61%
Crown: 12.2%
Pavilion: 41.1%
Girdle: Thin to Thick faceted
Culet: Very Small
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Clarity: SI1 (no visible inclusions, hard to find even under a loupe)
Color: J
Fluorescence: None
I ran it through the HCA Cut advisor and it gets about a 4.
$10,200

It will be set in a 6 prong platinum setting with a prong set eternity band. The wedding band will also be a prong set eternity. He says that with the right selection of diamonds on the band, it will be difficult for most people to tell it''s a J. I have no reason to not believe him, he''s been honest about everything else.

Thoughts? All opinions are appreciated.

 

[dmus]

The table size is rather large and the crown and pavillian depths are shallow. Since you have the stone. How is the brilliance, fire and scintillation?

 

[Ellen]

Hi Congaboy,

The short answer is, you can do better. Much.

The long answer is because:

1. Unless you have mistyped the first two sets of numbers in measurements, the diamond isn''t even round. You want those as close as possible, with no more than .10 difference. (i.e. ideally something like 8.24x8.20)

2. A 61 table is on the larger end. The smaller tables are more disirable, coupled with the appropriate CA, they help give off nice fire. This diamond would give off more white like. Some do prefer this look.

3. Depth would be ok, not much shallower though. We tend to look for 60-62.

4. I don''t know how to convert crown % to angles, but it is shallower, which could be good (depending on what it actually is) for the deeper pavillion angle.

5. In girdles, we want to see Thin, Med., Slightly Thick, or a combination there of. Thick won''t hurt anything really, except the spread. It will make it look a bit smaller.

6. Nothing wrong with a very small culet.

7. Nothing wrong with VG Polish.

8. It''s advisable to stick with Very Good and above on Symmetry. It tells us the cutter cared and took more time to cut a pleasing stone. (same w/polish)

9. Great clarity if eyeclean.

10. Nothing wrong with a J, if you are fine with it, and it''s on a very well cut stone, and it''s a grade from a reputable lab.


Which would lead me to the question, which EGL lab graded this? USA is the only one we see that seems quite accurate. This stone could easily be a K ,L, maybe even M if from another lab.


I would seriously recommend not buying this stone, and then doing some reasearch here on what to look for in a well cut diamond. Stick with EGL USA, HRD, GIA and AGS0 graded stones. And lastly, do not have your friend do your shopping for you.

I''m really sorry if I rained on your parade, that isn''t my intent. My real intent is to get you to a place where you know what to look for, and your girl ends up with a killer stone!

I hope this helped.

 

[congaboy77]

I don''t have the stone in my possession. I asked jeweler to keep it b/c we''ll finish up the rest of the ring design soon. His shop is about 500 miles away, and I didn''t want him to ship it here and then me ship it right back.

I asked specifically about the brilliance, fire, and scintillation. He said it had a lot of fire to it and that it was beautiful. He mentioned that a smaller table would help w/ fire, but that this stone still did really well. My friend who saw it thought it was great. I don''t mind having him be my "eyes" there b/c I trust him. He has done his research as well. He knows this is important to me and said if I wasn''t satisfied, I could send it back and we can find something that works.

I noticed the stone wasn''t "round." However, my friend didn''t mention it looking off. Is .2 mm noticeable or does this concern have more to do with how light will bounce inside the diamond? The diamond faces up white b/c of the larger table. This helps w/ the J color. It was graded by an EGL USA lab in Los Angeles. Don''t worry about raining on my parade, I have an umbrella. This diamond can go right back.

I''d be interested in seeing some other stones that you suggest.

Thanks for all of your opinions & suggestions, I appreciate them.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Here is a "J" I''d love to own. 1.73, VS2, Ideal/H & A/Infinity Stone, graded by AGS. 5% discount with wire transfer $. Dutton Diamonds.

=424&src=loupe:2o8h065d]http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?pid=63&lang=eng&sid[]=424&src=loupe

cheers--Sharon

 

[Ellen]

What would your top budget be for the stone?

 

[Ellen]

Assuming you don''t want to go much past what the other stone cost, this is the most comperable, and the least expensive. This is a great co. to work with, I''ve bought from them myself. Top notch goods.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4014/ Bankwire price is 10,761.00


Miss Canuck picked a pretty one too, but mine''s less.

 

[congaboy77]

I''d like to stick around my current budget of $10,200 for the stone.

Thanks for the suggestions. If going with an ideal cut, would I be better served getting something in the G-H-I range? I think the "whiter" characteristics of my current stone help with the J color. Thoughts?

Also, keeping in mind the characteristics of my stone, what do you think of what I paid?

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/22/2008 10:33:12 PM
Author: congaboy77
I''d like to stick around my current budget of $10,200 for the stone.

Thanks for the suggestions. If going with an ideal cut, would I be better served getting something in the G-H-I range? I think the ''whiter'' characteristics of my current stone help with the J color. Thoughts?

Also, keeping in mind the characteristics of my stone, what do you think of what I paid?

If you go with an ideal cut, a J color stone should face up extremely white. Not icy white, but I bet it will face up whiter than the J you currently have. Since you''re asking, I''m just going to lay it out there for you:

You''re paying too much! The stone is not that well cut, the price isn''t that low and the lab that graded it isn''t very reputable.

You would be much better off with either stretching your budget a smidge and going for the stones posted by Ellen and canuk, or going down a bit in size, but staying in your budget and getting a slightly smaller ideal cut AGS 0 diamond. Here''s a 1.512 carat J/VS1 that fits the bill and is a super ideal cut, H&A diamond for $9999 (which would be 5 % less with Pricescope discount and wire transfer:

http://whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-58927.htm

Here''s another that''s a J/VS2 1.59 carat that is $10,620 less the 5 % discount. (Too lazy to do the exact math, but that would put you right around $10k.)

http://whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-171969.htm

You''re paying $10,000+ for a diamond for the love of your life-I say get the best that you can get! I''m sure the diamond your friend checked out for you isn''t a total dud, but that''s not the best case scenario, you know? It sounds like your girlfriend is going to be blown away with anything over 1 carat since she''s expecting a 1 carat or less. So I say go for a super duper ideal cut 1.5ish carat diamond that is not only big, but also extremely beautiful!

Phew...sorry to ramble...I''m wordy tonight!

 

[phoenixgirl]

I tried running the HCA, but it said the numbers didn''t add up or the girdle was overly thick. ??? Am I entering a number incorrectly? Are you sure you changed angles to percentages? And angles and percentages aside, the stone is fairly out of round.

I''m not sure what the "''whiter'' characteristics" of your stone are. ??? It doesn''t have flourescence or a spectacularly good cut, and it''s a J graded by EGL, not a stricter lab. Did someone tell you this?

You''re right that slightly tinted stones can be great bang for your buck. There''s many a proud wearer of a J, K, L, etc. stone here on P.S. What concerns me is the cut. I''d say forget about this particular stone for a minute and start from scratch. What is your budget? What can you afford? Do you believe size/availability/convenience should override cut? What would suit/please your girlfriend the most?

I have a non-ideal stone that I inherited. I''ve never had it appraised out of its setting, but in the setting it was estimated to have below 60% depth and a relatively large table. Would I choose this stone if the world were my oyster when it came to getting an engagement ring stone? Let''s be honest, no. I love my setting, I love that it was my grandmother''s, I love that it didn''t cost my husband thousands of dollars that he didn''t have. I clean it religiously and get compliments on its sparkiliness (and I know this is precisely because I keep it a lot cleaner than the average woman). But it is not a well cut stone. If I could choose from any stone, I wouldn''t get a mediocre stone in terms of cut. I don''t care about color or clarity as long as the stone appears whitish and blemish-free. But I want a stone that hypnotizes me with its symmetry, that says, "I was cut with love!" not, "I was cut to try to break the two carat mark but oops I didn''t make it!"

Your stone is pretty out of round at 8.24-8.02 and was graded by a less strict lab.

Last but not least, I''d encourage you to search for EGL J SI1 stones around this size to get an idea of price here on PS. What I hear you saying is that you like your friend''s jeweler and so you want to spend your $10k with this person because this is a trustworthy person who''s getting you a good deal. Is that what hte comparisons say?

Your latest question was if you should up the color if also upping the cut. NO! You might up the color to make up for your mediocre cut, or better yet, up the cut and keep the color at a good place price-wise (and with a stricter lab). But if someone has told you that a better cut means you need a better color to compliment it, wow. That''s all I have to stay.

 

[iheartscience]

Just an FYI, I ran a check for 1.8-2 carat EGL-certed J color stones and the price range was definitely lower than what you paid. The price range is from $6400ish-$10,000ish. So still not that great of a price, even when comparing EGL apples to EGL apples.

 

[congaboy77]

Thank you for the replies & honesty.

I''ll start to look more at the 1.5ish range w/ a better cut. From my research here, I knew some of the stats were off, but wanted to give this one a shot b/c it came so well recommended. For lack of a better term, I''m not married to this diamond.

All the numbers are percentages on the EGL USA certificate. I didn''t have to do any conversions to angles. I got the same error, but then it cleared when I selected "percentage" rather than "angle" in the drop down box.

I learned about the reputation of EGL USA from this and other forums. It''s still an area of concern for me in regards to this stone. I''ve set a limit around $10,200 for this stone. My girlfriend has no real preference other than a round. She''s very easy going and has been relatively ambiguous in this process. My limits are 1.5 or above, eye clean, good fire.

As far as the jeweler, I want to use him b/c he came highly recommended and we work well together. As far as getting a good deal, that''s my responsibility to do the research (and thanks again everyone for your help). I have no doubt that if I go back to him w/ some concerns and want to switch that he''ll do what it takes to make me happy.

No one directly said that I should up the color if I went w/ a better cut. This was a question I had b/c I thought the diamond looked whiter b/c of the larger table. If it were cut better, I figured it would show more of the color of the stone.

I can''t thank everyone enough for your help. I had a question in an earlier post that I could use some clarification about. Many of you have said that it is out of round, and I knew that from the stats. Is this a problem b/c of the way light will bounce around in the diamond or is this a problem b/c it''s supposed to be "round" and it really isn''t. As a side note, I kind of like cushion cuts, by my girlfriend really doesn''t. Maybe this is a way we can compromise! j/k

 

[Ellen]

congaboy, before I offer help in finding you a stone, which I don''t mind doing at all, I need to know what you want. You seem interested in finding a diamond online, but yet say you want to use the jeweler you''ve been working with. So I''m confused, and would appreciate it if you could let me/us know which way you would like to go.

As the others have pointed out, the better the cut, the less color (of the diamond) will show. The large table won''t make the diamond look whiter (show less color), it will return more white light to the eye, less fire.

As for the stone being out of round. A little deviation is ok, this is not. We want a round diamond to look, round.

Also, it can be a good indication of how well other parts of the diamond are cut, that aren''t shown on a grading report. If a cutter doesn''t even take the time to cut a round, round, he''s not taking the time anywhere else much either. He''s in it for the wieght/money. Not to cut a great stone.

So, let us know which way you want to go.

 

[congaboy77]

Ellen, thanks for your continued help in this thread.

What I am looking for is a round brilliant 1.5ct+, eye clean diamond in the G-H-I-J range with a good amount of fire. As far as online vs. in store, I am looking to purchase the stone in-store from the jeweler I have been working with.

Where I can use everyone''s help is finding a comparable stone online that meets the criteria of what I''m looking for. I''d like to take that to my jeweler as reference and work with him from there. I understand that I will pay a premium in store vs. online. It''s not that I''m against buying online, but I feel that I''ve given my word that I''ll buy "a" diamond from this jeweler and I don''t want to go back on it. The premium is what I pay for not doing my research ahead of time.

 

[Ellen]

Ok, I understand now!


I can''t find anything smaller, with the same stats as the GOG J VS2 I linked you. That stone would be good enough to show him, and just say I want a bit smaller size, with these stas, that adheres to my budget. The thing is, I''d be shocked if he could find one cut like this, that wasn''t branded. That was my experience when trying to shop locally.

What you could do, is ask him to find you an AGS0 graded diamond. They are graded for light performance (zero), among other things. That takes more of the guesswork out, and ensures you get a decent stone.


And while I really do find it admirable that you feel you should stick with this jeweler because of the relationship you''ve built, remember these two things:


1. Business is business, for he AND you.

2. This lovely gentleman is the one who tried to sell you a notsohot stone, for a rather inflated price, while claiming it''s great virtues at the same time.

Just some food for thought.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 2/23/2008 12:01:02 PM
Author: Ellen
Ok, I understand now!



I can't find anything smaller, with the same stats as the GOG J VS2 I linked you. That stone would be good enough to show him, and just say I want a bit smaller size, with these stas, that adheres to my budget. The thing is, I'd be shocked if he could find one cut like this, that wasn't branded. That was my experience when trying to shop locally.


What you could do, is ask him to find you an AGS0 graded diamond. They are graded for light performance (zero), among other things. That takes more of the guesswork out, and ensures you get a decent stone.



And while I really do find it admirable that you feel you should stick with this jeweler because of the relationship you've built, remember these two things:



1. Business is business, for he AND you.


2. This lovely gentleman is the one who tried to sell you a notsohot stone, for a rather inflated price, while claiming it's great virtues at the same time.


Just some food for thought.

Just wanted to chime in on the business is business thing. It SURE is!

I wouldn't feel indebted to buy from a particular jeweler. (Especially when I could do better online) People change their minds all the time. It's nothing personal. Just...business. In the end, it's all about the exchange of $$.

I haven't bought from an online vendor. If I had to do it over again? GoodOldGold for me! I'm locked into an 100% upgrade dealie with a b&m jeweler. I'm happy to get the 100%, but I sure wish it was with an online jeweler.

eta: Good Luck! I hope you find the best stone for your future fiance!

eta again: Hi Ellen! W

Wzers on that GOG stone! (fanning herself)