1.53 RB - requesting thoughts and opinions!

[rkp2be]

I have the following stone to make a decision on by Friday:

1.53 RB
H VS2
7.47-7.43x4.55
depth: 61.2%
table: 54%
crown: 33.2
crown depth: 15.1%
pav: 40.7
pav depth: 42.7%
culet: none
girdle: 0.9-2.2% faceted (which is thin-med, right?)
polish/symmetry: excellent/very good
EGL-USA cert, listed as "ideal plus" (their highest cut grade, albeit a tad looser than GIA & AGS!)

HCA score: 0.8 (excellent w/in TIC range), scores excellent on everything but spread (VG). It looks (based on where the "x" lands) that this stone barely missed the criteria for GIA excellent grade. It meets criteria for "American Ideal Class" cut 1B (using AGA DIY cut grading, it misses class 1A w/ the pavilion [by .1%] and the crown angle).

IS image looks really good on this stone - lots of red/pink, nice black arrows (it''s not H&A), a few little triangles of white around the edges (the kind that help scintillation).

My main concern is the crown angle. I know it''s lower than what most people around here seem to like... what effects does an angle like that (combined w/ my other #''s) have? also are the dimensions okay? HCA rates spread as only very good - I can''t tell if the diameter is on the smaller or larger size for the weight.

I''ve been examining the stone in as much different lighting as I can find - so far it''s looking fantastic, but I don''t have a more ideally cut stone to compare it to, so I want to get some more opinions on the stats.

TIA!!

everyone here is so wonderful and helpful!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Once you make a decision, do you still have a return period? I am not one who recommends appraisals routinely, but I do recommend them on stones that have other than GIA or AGS certs. I can''t answer your question about the crown angle. We always recommend 34-35 because we know that is the ideal and it is easiest to choose diamonds over the internet when using the ideal numbers. However, if you have seen the stone and love it, then it is probably fine. But I''d want to make sure the stone is as represented on the cert so that I didn''t overpay.

 

[rkp2be]

that''s a good point. we''re getting it through a friend/co-worker of FF''s - he is sourcing the diamond for us from his cutters. he also is a trained gemologist and can do appraisals, he''s looked at it twice and verified that the cert is correct (he doesn''t care which stone we choose, so i''d consider him relatively objective). it was actually just certified 3/28/08 in NY, if that makes a difference. anyway, technically we would have a return period, as he''s told us anytime we want to get something different or upgrade we can do it through him. as for the price, i think he paid $8050 for it, and he''ll be getting a finder''s fee... apparently he makes most his money through custom settings, which he''s doing for us.

 

[rkp2be]

bump for more opinions

 

[Ellen]

I would like to see the crown angle a bit higher, especially with that pavilion angle.

If you're really interested, I'd have an independant appraiser look at it and give an opinon, not the guy selling it to you.

 

[rkp2be]

thanks ellen... i''d really love to have a independent appraiser look at it, but the PS search doesn''t show any who are in/near charlotte, nc. does anyone familiar with this area know of anyone i could take it to?? i''d really love to sit in w/ them while they appraise it, and a trip to chapel hill is a bit out of the ol'' schedule right now.

another question: is the appraisal just to make sure the cert matches and give a replacement value?? or to give me an expert opinion on the diamond''s cut & performance?

...and any other opinions on the crown angle and it''s effect?... or the relative shallowness/deepness of the diamond? i know 1.5''s should be about 7.4mm, so i''m not sure if 7.45 for 1.53 is too big or too small.

thanks again!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 4/3/2008 3:15:28 PM
Author: rkp2be
thanks ellen... i'd really love to have a independent appraiser look at it, but the PS search doesn't show any who are in/near charlotte, nc. does anyone familiar with this area know of anyone i could take it to?? i'd really love to sit in w/ them while they appraise it, and a trip to chapel hill is a bit out of the ol' schedule right now.

another question: is the appraisal just to make sure the cert matches and give a replacement value?? or to give me an expert opinion on the diamond's cut & performance?

...and any other opinions on the crown angle and it's effect?... or the relative shallowness/deepness of the diamond? i know 1.5's should be about 7.4mm, so i'm not sure if 7.45 for 1.53 is too big or too small.

thanks again!

Bingo! And to confirm the stats.

There's nothing deep about this stone. Crown and pavilion angles are a balancing act of sorts at times. If one goes one way to the edge (slightly shallow), you want the other to go in the opposite direction, (slightly deeper). This stone may be fine, or it may lack a little contrast/scintillation. And head shadow could possibly show. That's why you need someone unbiased looking at your stone (besides confirming the stats).

Not sure what to tell you on the appraiser location...

Since you mentioned you could upgrade or get something different from him, could you ask him to find some AGS0's?

And you're welcome!

 

[rkp2be]

thanks for the reply ellen!

yes, i did notice the crown & pav aren''t doing the "inverse relationship" thing as much as they could... i looked at the stone in every type of lighting i could find in my apartment, and also outside in sun & shade and in office lighting... only once (in some weird corner lighting) i thought the table area looked a little dimmer than the outside. when looking at it close-up, i barely noticed head shadow in most cases (when i did, it was the arrows getting a little dark, like normal right?). the thing i most noticed was that it sparkles so much, often with fire.

we have compared some ASG0''s but are so attracted to the lower cost of an EGL USA (assuming, of course, that it''s sufficiently cut & graded!!). i''ve heard they can be excellent value if you find the right one, which is why the jeweler is suggesting them. i''ve considered getting this one, then if i find (once i have it on my finger) that i''m not 100% sold on the performance, i can just upgrade quality. by then we''d have the funds to add $$ for an AGS0.

p.s. the setting is already done and would have to be completely re-made for a smaller size, so we want to stick with 1.5-ish (plus i guess i got too accustomed to how it looks on my hand!

).

...are these bad reasons to pick this stone!??

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Oh, gosh, I just saw this. I know that Bill Stegelmeyer at Karat Patch in Charlotte does appraisals, but he is not an independent appraiser. He will tell you an inflated retail value, but at least he could verify if the color an clarity were correct. The price is good if it is what it is supposed to be, but if it is really an I or J color, SI1, it might not be such a good deal.

Here''s a similar stone, 1.5 I SI1 with a 33.2 crown angle from WhiteFlash at $6567 with wire/pricescope discount:

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-680238.htm

 

[Ellen]

Date: 4/3/2008 4:44:36 PM
Author: rkp2be
thanks for the reply ellen!

yes, i did notice the crown & pav aren't doing the 'inverse relationship' thing as much as they could... i looked at the stone in every type of lighting i could find in my apartment, and also outside in sun & shade and in office lighting... only once (in some weird corner lighting) i thought the table area looked a little dimmer than the outside. when looking at it close-up, i barely noticed head shadow in most cases (when i did, it was the arrows getting a little dark, like normal right?). the thing i most noticed was that it sparkles so much, often with fire.

we have compared some ASG0's but are so attracted to the lower cost of an EGL USA (assuming, of course, that it's sufficiently cut & graded!!). i've heard they can be excellent value if you find the right one, which is why the jeweler is suggesting them. i've considered getting this one, then if i find (once i have it on my finger) that i'm not 100% sold on the performance, i can just upgrade quality. by then we'd have the funds to add $$ for an AGS0.

p.s. the setting is already done and would have to be completely re-made for a smaller size, so we want to stick with 1.5-ish (plus i guess i got too accustomed to how it looks on my hand!

).

...are these bad reasons to pick this stone!??

With some stones yes. I wouldn't call it normal per se, it has to do with the cut. Mine only appear silver.

If you like it, then that's all that matters. And if you change your mind, as you said, you can look for another.

 

[rkp2be]

thanks diamondseeker! did i see in another thread that you live in/near CLT? i might try to get in touch w/ karat patch even though he''s not independent.

thanks for that link... no offense

but it doesn''t look similar (or good) to me at all!

i definitely appreciate it for comparison''s sake though, especially w/ the price. i guess it''s other angles/%''s do nothing for the 33 crown. it shows fish-eye, right? (or at least darkness around the center). the IS on the 1.53 we''re looking at is much better, with even red/pink, symmetrical, dark arrows (not too big though), and a few little triangles of white/pink around the edges (but MUCH less than the 1.50). that''s good to compare them, but the one we''re looking at is clearly a better cut (wow, that made me feel better!).

not to say i''ll stay with the 1.53... i''m just saying...

 

[rkp2be]

Date: 4/3/2008 5:09:31 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 4/3/2008 4:44:36 PM
Author: rkp2be
thanks for the reply ellen!

yes, i did notice the crown & pav aren''t doing the ''inverse relationship'' thing as much as they could... i looked at the stone in every type of lighting i could find in my apartment, and also outside in sun & shade and in office lighting... only once (in some weird corner lighting) i thought the table area looked a little dimmer than the outside. when looking at it close-up, i barely noticed head shadow in most cases (when i did, it was the arrows getting a little dark, like normal right?). the thing i most noticed was that it sparkles so much, often with fire.

we have compared some ASG0''s but are so attracted to the lower cost of an EGL USA (assuming, of course, that it''s sufficiently cut & graded!!). i''ve heard they can be excellent value if you find the right one, which is why the jeweler is suggesting them. i''ve considered getting this one, then if i find (once i have it on my finger) that i''m not 100% sold on the performance, i can just upgrade quality. by then we''d have the funds to add $$ for an AGS0.

p.s. the setting is already done and would have to be completely re-made for a smaller size, so we want to stick with 1.5-ish (plus i guess i got too accustomed to how it looks on my hand!

).

...are these bad reasons to pick this stone!??

With some stones yes. I wouldn''t call it normal per se, it has to do with the cut. Mine only appear silver.

If you like it, then that''s all that matters. And if you change your mind, as you said, you can look for another.

by "dark" i mean silvery-gray as opposed to white. is that okay?

you guys are awesome with you''re input!!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 4/3/2008 5:28:43 PM
Author: rkp2be

by ''dark'' i mean silvery-gray as opposed to white. is that okay?

you guys are awesome with you''re input!!

lol Yes, that is ok.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, I do live near CLT!

That stone is faaaar from typical WF stones, and I only gave the link because the angles were so similar to the one you are looking at and to show you the drop in price once you go to I SI.

I do think if the stone is beautiful to you, that is what counts the most! Diamonds do not have to be super ideal cut to be beautiful. As long as someone can verify the color and clarity so you can know whether you are overpaying or not, that is the main concern I would have. Better to be safe than sorry!