Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealscope?

[Behacad]

Assuming a stone costs the same in both circumstances, would you prefer to:

(a) see a stone in person and buy it without being provided an idealscope image

or

(b) not see the stone in person and buy it from an online vendor who provides an idealscope image?

Also, which is more likely to cost more?

Assume you are looking for an eye-clean diamond in the near-colorless range.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

That is an interesting dilemma, Behacad.

My first reaction would be that seeing a diamond in person trumps any online-information, BUT in reality, most consumers have little to no reference-frame to correctly assess one or a few diamonds. The risk is high to settle for an 'underperforming' diamond, with a limited number of diamonds to compare to, in jewellery-store-lighting, not to mention the potential influence of the salesperson.

For that reason, using an Idealscope (preferably combined with the idealscope-light) can serve as a reference-frame when seeing diamonds life in a store. The cost is minor, and the reaction of the salesperson to you using the tool will be very revealing.

Even with shops offering reflector-pictures, I would suggest checking them out life in the various scopes.

At the end of the day, you are buying a diamond, not a picture, just like you are not buying a grading-report either.

Live long,

 

[Behacad]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

What if you, as the consumer, knew the importance of an excellent cut, and even of HCA scores? Would that limit the risk of buying something poor in person?

Also, how important is the ideal-light for the idealscope? I didn't buy one and am unsure if I should regret it.

 

[chrono]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

+1 to Paul's post above. If you prefer to buy locally, why not purchase an idealscope and bring it along with you? HCA is not foolproof but a tool to help weed out most of the underperforming diamonds.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

I am not a consumer, but I am buying diamonds on a daily basis, where a consumer generally buys one occasionally. Having an excellent cut and a nice HCA-score is nice, but it is never going to make my final buying-decision. True personal inspection is necessary for each of my buying-decisions, and a high percentage of excellent cuts with a nice HCA-score do not pass.

Very often, us not agreeing with the lab-grade is a major factor, but I should add that not having sufficient room to re-cut/improve the cut (not or less important in a consumer's decision) is also an important factor.

All is relative in this regard. In colour and clarity, each consumer has his/her personal tolerance-level. For some, J or K is fine, while others can truly go no lower than F. None of them is wrong, it is a personal feeling/decision. Same for clarity, some will be fine with eye-clean SI2, others have to get IF. No wrong either. Same for cut-quality, some will settle for 'good enough', happy that the stone passes some minimal criteria, others just have to get the best.

The big difference is in price-differences. Each color-grade up adds on average 8 to 10% to the price. Each clarity-grade up adds on average 8 to 10% to the price. In cut-quality, big visible differences only add small percentages to the price. When buying a diamond, you are basically under-paying for cut-quality and over-paying for color and clarity, possibly also for size.

As for your second question, using the ideal-light makes using the idealscope easier and more foolproof.

Live long,

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

You really cannot do it with the eye alone unless you have seen a LOT of ideal cut diamonds. Some will have some leakage that you will not be able to see in jewelry store lighting. Ever since I found PS, I have bought diamonds online (I don't live near a vendor who carries ideal cut stones). Better quality, better prices. We have even seen a few AGS ideal cut stones here that I wouldn't buy due to the idealscope image. So there is less risk buying from vendors who provide magnified images of the stones as well as idealscope images. I have had stones sent to me that I sent back, so really, you aren't even stuck if you do it online.

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

What if you, as the consumer, knew the importance of an excellent cut, and even of HCA scores? Would that limit the risk of buying something poor in person?

Also, how important is the ideal-light for the idealscope? I didn't buy one and am unsure if I should regret it.

Interesting, if the option is available, I would always suggest seeing the diamond in person. Especially, if as you propose the cost is the same in both situations. In reality, the cost to look at a stone in real life will almost always cost at least a few dollars more.

However, when looking at stones in real life, you may surprise yourself by asking the vendor to show you 3 to 5 stones in a slotted tray without telling you anything about those stones. Ask him to show you only stones with AGS or GIA grading reports.

Since you are concerned about cutting, ask him to only show you stones with excellent cut grade GIA reports an ideal cut grades from AGS. When you have narrowed the selection down visually to one or two stones, you may be very surprised at which colors appeared most attractive to your eyes. At that time, you will also want to pull out your ideal scope to look at the cutting with a critical eye. Even though all of the stones had top cutting reports from the two laboratories, as you will have seen by now they may have dramatically different looks. At this point, you are just making sure that although you like these the best that they are indeed worthy of consideration.

You will find the AGS cut grades to be much more consistent in their visual appeal, but if your vendor chose good GIA cut graded stones, you may have a winner from GIA as well.

Oops, back to the dilemma, did I choose a good vendor or not? Therein lies the rub.

A good bricks and mortar vendor may be even more difficult to find than a good Internet vendor, because there may not be such a wealth of searchable information about your chosen vendor.

Since you are not an expert, it is imperative that you are dealing with someone who understands your needs and desires. That is much more important than whether or not you are dealing on the Internet or visiting a bricks and mortar store.

While it is always preferable to see the diamonds if possible, that advantage is only valid if the vendor is interested in showing you the diamonds and explaining to you what you are seeing in a fair and unbiased manner. Any stone that you are interested in looking at must be presented spotlessly clean and seen in a variety of lighting conditions. An unscrupulous bricks and mortar vendor can guide you with a variety of tricks (such as a surreptitious swipe of nose grease on the table of the stone he does not want you to choose) into making a poor decision. A scrupulous bricks and mortar vendor can assist you into making a brilliant decision that you will enjoy for a lifetime.

Gosh, that sounds strangely parallel to the Internet universe. Your task, should you choose to accept it, is to pick out a vendor, on the Internet or off, who will listen to your desires and understand your needs and help you to meet them.

Hmm, it looks like there may not be a simple answer to your question.

Wink

P.S. Paul offers some excellent advice and a great point of view from a cutters prospective. I hope you clearly understood his comment about consumers underpaying for improvements in cutting. Many of my clients, while looking at an array of five stones have chosen stones well below the color range that they told me they were looking for as being the best looking to them.

Not only did they choose the stone they liked the best, but often save hundreds or even thousands of dollars by doing so.

 

[Behacad]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

My issue is that I have not seen many ideal diamonds in the past and perhaps I am unlikely to find a dealer who can present me with 5 of them and I pick my favourite. In essence, I am worried that I won't be able to tell an excellent stone from a great stone in the moment. In contrast, buying one online with all the support of PS may lead to me getting a better stone. I have an ideal-scope, but even with that (not using the light, did not buy one) I seem to have trouble differentiating between the best stones. A bit of a dilemma!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

I would go with online buying because even if you find a jeweler with great stones, they'll probably cost more.

I did find one place that had prices (with a sale) on stones similarly priced to what I'm looking for, but they were uncertified (so could have been lower grade/clarity) and I did bring my ideal scope in and I could tell there was more light leakage and the sales woman was MAD after I used my ideal scope. It makes it kind of stressful when the sales people don't encourage you to use tools to tell if a stone is good or not.

There was another jeweler I visited on Saturday and found that they did have some well-cut stones, but to stay in my budget, I had to compromise on both size and clarity...

 

[smilligan]

Re: Buy in person without idealscope, or online with idealsc

My issue is that I have not seen many ideal diamonds in the past and perhaps I am unlikely to find a dealer who can present me with 5 of them and I pick my favourite. In essence, I am worried that I won't be able to tell an excellent stone from a great stone in the moment. In contrast, buying one online with all the support of PS may lead to me getting a better stone. I have an ideal-scope, but even with that (not using the light, did not buy one) I seem to have trouble differentiating between the best stones. A bit of a dilemma!

I understand your confusion/concern and I can sympathize. I've just recently (within the past several months) begun researching diamonds and it is quite a daunting task. It seems that with every bit of knowledge gleaned, two more become out of reach. I think it's important to look at stones in person first. Search for a local jeweler that has good reviews online and make an appointment. As others have suggested, ask to see a variety of diamonds and compare them. If possible, ask to take the stones outside (with a guard/sales rep) or view them by a window. You can view the pavilion against a piece of white paper to determine color. Become familiar with using a loupe to look for inclusions and obvious cutting defects. Once you know your comfort zone, go online and look for diamonds with IS/ASET/videos/etc. alternatively, you can find a local store that has an IS/ASET and look in person. Either way, you need to trust yourself. And to do that, you have to have a base of knowledge to pull from. Expert opinions and images are great, but they aren't your eyes. The benefit of many online vendors is that they have great return policies (as stated above), so you can still see the stone in person. Here are some links that may help you understand using a loupe/IS.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Articles/Loupe/

You can buy a nice Belomo triplet 10x loupe for $30-40 if you don't already have one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002OVC9W/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1386090951&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70