Another article on debt/youth.....

[Waited2Long]

Date: 1/15/2006 2:06:27 PM
Author: Mara
so i do think it is hard when you are young and stupid and don''t know any better, but part of that is parenting responsibility...my parents didn''t really teach me how to use credit in a smart way and i obviously didn''t figure it out on my own, esp when you are away at college and heady with the excitement of being out on your own.

I remember when I was a college sophomore and had just gotten a credit card and I told my parents. They went ballistic. Gave me a good tongue lashing and forced me to send it back. After 16 years, I''ve still not ever had any debt other than the mortgage on our tiny, very modest fixer upper. My excessive frugality is due mostly to my parents. Thankfully I''ve also found a woman who''s good with money too. We''re frugal, but not cheap, to use Perry''s definition.
Our 2 cars together cost us less than $5k, but I''ve been collecting tools most of my life to keep them running well for the cost of parts and a little weekend sweat. We DIY our home repairs too. I sometimes get the feeling that our friends actually feel sorry for us (we have the ugliest, cheapest home and cars by far), but I don''t think they know what a *luxury* it is to not have to worry much about finances. I never really care when payday is, because I don''t need that next check to pay the bills. We all work in a rocky, cyclical industry, but I''m not too worried about getting laid off. I''d have plenty of time to figure out what to do before I had to worry about making the mortgage payment. I may never have all the toys and niceties I dream about, but for me, the peace of mind is worth it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

another bad thing i hear about young kids these days (daughter''s friends) ....they love to play Texas hold''em poker.i told my daughter don''t become a gambling addict. your dumb daddy lost enough money to put you through the best college.

 

[Kaleigh]

We are debt free, and have taught are kids to stay clear from debt. Our daughter is very responsible money wise and keeps a ledger of everything she buys. She works during the summers and this summer will have to pay rent etc... I think it will be a great experience for her as this is the summer before she goes to college. She has had a credit card, and has never abused it. Last thing she would ever want is to rack up bills she can''t afford to pay. Hopefully we have laid a good foundation for her. Hubby has his own money management firm and talks often to them about living beyond your means, etc...

 

[ladykemma]

perry, i too have had adult debt, so I can relate to what you say.

one year my hubby needed to spend time in a special rehab facility to deal with some mental health issues that had to be addressed.

$30,000 -- it cost for a six week stay. no the insurance didn''t pay. it was a tough year, in more ways than one, til it all got paid off. but definitely worth it.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Date: 1/15/2006 2:58:46 PM
Author: angel_nieves
I have recently have gone back to work as a mortgage broker and see so many young people my age that have so much debt that it is impossible for them to buy any type of home. REFUSING TO HAVE CREDIT CARDS IS THE BEST THING FOR YOUNG PEOPLE

I disagree. The only reason I could buy a house at the age of 22 WAS because I had opened my first CC when I was 18. Now obviously it IS easy for SOME people to lose control and abuse their credit but the longer you have credit the better off you are. I plan on opening cards in my children''s names (when I have them and when they are old enough). Having the best credit score you can is very important. I think it is unfair to generalize all "young people." I have never had bad debt. Besides my morgage I am debt free. My FI is in real estate and besides his morgages (and all of his homes are rented for more than the morgage) he is debt free. I might be in the minority but most of my friends also have avoided CC debt. The only one is my business partner who just got out of debt from when she was in college but she paid for her own school and used her CC for books and such.

 

[Rhapsody]

Hanging around pricescope makes me feel like I do sitting in my 17 year old car downtown next to 20 year olds in 70K cars. People still doing their undergrad with 15-20 thousand dollar engagement rings, buying houses at 22. Generally I''m pretty proud of the way my boyfriend and I have been able to handle all the terrible financial ups and downs but when I see this I feel like a 5 year old trying to play like I''m an adult. I know its never a good idea to compare yourself and where you are in life to other people but I feel like I''m so far behind. So much hard work and so little to show for it...

 

[monarch64]

While I will never bash my parents for my upbringing, this thread hit home with me. My parents have been married for over 35 years and my father and mother have totally different views on money. He''s a saver to the absolute extreme, and she''s the opposite. He was the major breadwinner, a business owner, and she was a stay at home mother. My father handled all the money, period, and has always doled out an "allowance" to my mother for groceries each week, or he would give her cash for furniture, clothing for us kids and herself, etc. She just opened up her own checking account two years ago, when he was diagnosed with colon cancer. My experiences with money and my family have been very negative and painful. My father is the type who also says credit cards are a bad thing--even as a business owner (several smaller businesses, all very successful) he has only one card that he speaks of with a substantial limit which he has never used! When I was growing up and through college, we never talked about money. When I went to college, he paid for my tuition, my apartment, bought me a car outright, and sent me $80 cash in the mail every single week for food, etc. until I graduated. He also gave me a checking account with both of our names on it, which of course I abused relentlessly. The only conversations we had about money were when I had gone on shopping sprees and came home for visits and he would sit me down (finally) and try to help me "budget" the money. I used to spend $800 a month on frivolous crap that I didn''t even need, as well as dinners, partying, etc. He never cut me off, though...I guess I was testing him the whole time just to see if he would.

When I graduated, I had maybe 2 store credit cards to my name, which I maxed out, paid off, maxed out again at a higher limit, etc. Then I broke my ankle, which required surgery, and of course didn''t have health insurance due to coming off my parents'' policy and waiting for health isurance at my new job to kick in. Then I was in major debt. I had to pay off those bills myself (which was fine with me), but in order to buy food sometimes and pay my rent, I racked up even more credit card debt. 10 years later I am still paying it off. I''m married now, but my poor husband has had to deal with my issues and it sucks because he shouldn''t have to. I should be able to contribute to our mortgage instead of trying to pay down old credit cards that I don''t even use anymore!

Once again, I''m not complaining about my upbringing. I was given the best my parents could afford, but there was no communication about money. I can definitely see how some children''s lives may be affected because the previous generation wanted to give them the best but forgot to tell them while they were being spoiled that it wouldn''t last forever. I think a lot of 20-30 somethings are in this position and you can''t really place blame on any one party in particular. Sorry for rambling and for this post being so long! It''s just not fair to see the issue as black and white, and say things like, don''t get credit cards, period. Sometimes people don''t have a choice, or aren''t informed enough to make good choices.

 

[Blue824]

If my parents hadn't taken the incredible efforts they did, I would not be 23 and debt free.

Something I have noticed is that all my friends in debt also have parents who mismanage money as well. How is one supposed to learn good habits if they're surrounded by bad habits? The knowledge my parents gave me about money is invaluable.
From a 23 yr olds perspective, it IS hard. I make next to nothing but I am surrounded by images of lavish lifestyles, new trends, expensive night lives, etc... its not realistic to think or act like I can keep up with everything. I grew up being given pretty much anything I wanted and now as my parents are cutting the strings, its like ok, maybe I personally cannot afford to buy designer purses as often or travel the same way I did with my parents. I'm living at home in the suburbs until I can buy a place in the city. I know its not as glamourous and exciting to have my own place, but whatever, I sort of feel like rent would waste my $$. Now, in addition to saving money, I get to shop, take vacations, and pay my own bills.

In Illinois you have to pass a consumer economics class before graduating high school. I'm sure that course could be beefed up to include more information, but mine was pretty good, maybe that should be a national program. I still think the influence of a parent is more important, but something is better than nothing.

 

[bar01]

Some good information on debt. It is very difficult for many young people getting out of College with debts. I graduated with some student loans, but was fortunate that my Mom helped with most of the costs of college, and I had a good job and career waiting for me.

Kids, they want to live a lifestyle they see their parents having, but don't realize what it took to get them there. In addition, the real-estate market is crazy and being able to afford housing these days, if you're just starting, is hard.

But with all this discussion of debt - there is the thing this article and this discussion are missing - INCOME. Debt is bad, but it is of course the ratio of debt to income that matters.

Living within your means is the key - but I don't think many young people clearly understand what kind of career and what kind of income they can expect over their lifetime, from their chosen major in college.

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 1/15/2006 11:47:07 PM
Author: Rhapsody
Hanging around pricescope makes me feel like I do sitting in my 17 year old car downtown next to 20 year olds in 70K cars. People still doing their undergrad with 15-20 thousand dollar engagement rings, buying houses at 22. Generally I''m pretty proud of the way my boyfriend and I have been able to handle all the terrible financial ups and downs but when I see this I feel like a 5 year old trying to play like I''m an adult. I know its never a good idea to compare yourself and where you are in life to other people but I feel like I''m so far behind. So much hard work and so little to show for it...

rhapsody, they are probably up to their eyeballs in credit card, stress, and car debt. you are going the right way.

which was revealing to me because lurking on pricescope made me feel like the "teacher salary" middle class person driving through wealthy River Oaks, feeling totally out of place -- until this thread. thanks!

 

[fire&ice]

Allen Edmonds - too funny that you would bring that up. Yeah, some things are worth the price. We splurged for hubby''s dress shoes about 18 years ago. After many re-soles, he is thinking about replacing them only because the toes are getting too scoofed up to polish. Definitely worth the price. He said he I would be burying him in the next pair.

I think debt doesn''t make you irresponsible. It can help budget, etc. It''s stupid debt that I don''t get. Who in the world needs a LV purse? They aren''t terrifically made. And, I see these Kate Spade fabric purses that look like they wouldn''t last a season sell for 2-300 dollars. Why? I''m a PS''er so I will notice peoples diamonds - but I wouldn''t notice what kind of car, handbag, - oh and what''s up with scarves? I love a nice scarf - but wouldn''t know a designer if it bite me on the butt. I was wearing the new scarf my mom knitted me (my best holiday gift). Someone asked me on line at the grocery if it was an x, y. z scarf. I said, no - it was Mother F&I. The person looked quite confused.

And, don''t get me started about cable - it''s like an entitlement. At the minimum - it''s $40.00 per month. The same people who complain that they can''t start a retirement account is paying that each month.

My generation was just as bad. They had to have everything and now. Though, it did not include $400.00 jeans & 1k purses.

 

[rainbowtrout]

As a younger person with plenty of debt and a credit card I was interested by this thread---

My parents are also "opposites" on money, but then they are divorced so it doesn''t matter quite as much. Both of them have been as generous as they can with my schooling, but since my mother is on disbility and my father lives in LA and works as a mmusician...well, the 40K a year is beyond either of them. Thankfully the private insitutions have not had Bush slash their financial aid budgets (my brother likes to tell me I''m "on welfare" bc the government pays for some of my room and board).

Baically, I''ve about 50K in loans and have worked through college with some family friends paying the tuition aid didn''t cover. They didn''t want me to work every summer so I worked during the year and they have sent me to summer programs like Outward Bound in Alaska or Arabic school in Morocco, etc.

It has been a wonderful opportunity and I don''t feel like I have been made less "responsible" by not having to work every summer. If I had not done something productive with my time they would have expected me to work. They also would have been less willing to contribute to such an expensive education if I didn''t have plans and wasn''t going to a top school...

I also opened a CC account in order to start building credit young. I have had it for a few years now and have never missed paying off my balance; I just use it like a debit card. It is comforting to know that in case of some terrible emergency though I would be able to get through it with the help of my savings and card.


on the other hand, I see plenty of trust fund babies and 20 year old wearing more in clothing than I spend on an entire month''s budget. Still, I think that it is possible to teach your child to value what they have even if they are very well off and to do it without forcing them to go through some simiulcrum of "what you went through" to do it. If you had to work your ass off through college and your parents never paid a cent, perhaps you should make things easier by paying for most of your child''s tuition on the condition that, say, they make certain grades or handle their own food/clothing budget.

As for engagement rings--yes, it shocks me to see the very expensive rings on such young hands. heck, I''m still shocked that my boyfriend plans to spend 3-4K on mine. But as with Matatora''s lovely ring, my boyfriend worked for and saved/invested all of that money and he can afford to spend it.

Once again though, he only has multi-thousand dollars in savings at his age because his parents would announce they would pay for things and then yank the money away, or not pay at all. They also put an inoordinate stress on money and would buy their children''s clothes at Kmart in spite of making over a million a year. His reaction was to save every cent he came across and work since about 12 at various jobs. I honestly hope that it is possible to raise financially responsible children while still being generous and loving to them.

I certainly value what I have although my parents and family friends have made it possible for me to get there.


My two cents, sorry for the long ramble!

 

[eks6426]

My parents had an interesting way of dealing with their money. They actually CASHED every paycheck. Then from the time I was about 9 or 10 I was involved in the family paycheck day. They cashed the paycheck in mostly small bills. They had boxes or envelopes for every household expense plus savings etc. My job was to put the money in the boxes after they counted it out. So, they would get their $500 cash paycheck and divide it up into $100 for mortgage, $25 for gas, $25 for food etc. They also had envelopes for a clothing fun, my braces, eat-outs etc. They took the money for the main bills...mortage, insurance, utilities etc. back to the bank so they could write checks to pay the bills but everything else remained cash. So, if we wanted to eat out or I needed new jeans we had to check the envelope to see if there was enough money. Money was never moved from one envelope to another. I remember wanting a Ralph Loren polo shirt with the pony embroidered on it so badly in 8th grade (it was the big fad) but there was never enough money in the envelope for it so I bought a cheap polo and embroidered my own pony. It took me awhile on practice material to get it right, but I eventually did and it fooled all my friends.

Fast forward a few years. I graduated college with no debt and married right out of college. My husband and I built our first house new. We had no credit card debt. We eventually got ONE new car and did have a small loan payment on it. We saved....sometimes 50-60% of our income. Then one fateful day he got the big CANCER diagnosis at 26. We had insurance which thankfully paid for a lot of the treatement but then we maxed out. $2 million max doesn't go very far when you need cancer treatments. Our several hundered thousand dollars of savings was sucked into nothing. My husband and I split partially to protect my credit since he knew it was only a matter of time before the cancer would get him. He passed away with a lot of credit card debt just to stay alive as long as he did.

Fast forward a few more years, my first husband passed away leaving me with our 6 year old son and nothing. I worked very hard to buy my own house (was renting after the split). But I look at savings a bit differently. I'm not sure it is worth it to scrimp and save and put all your spare money into savings. We did without a lot of things. Didn't go on vacation. Didn't eat out much etc. Those are things I can't go back and do now that he is gone. Looking back our savings didn't really help. He would have gotten the same treatment even if we couldn't pay cash. So, I think there is a balance...not being in debt too much but also take the money to enjoy life. Go on vacation with your family, treat your spouse to a nice weekend away. Just don't be foolish about it.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 1/16/2006 11:07:34 AM
Author: IslandDreams

I look at savings a bit differently. I''m not sure it is worth it to scrimp and save and put all your spare money into savings. We did without a lot of things. Didn''t go on vacation. Didn''t eat out much etc. Those are things I can''t go back and do now that he is gone. Looking back our savings didn''t really help. He would have gotten the same treatment even if we couldn''t pay cash. So, I think there is a balance...not being in debt too much but also take the money to enjoy life. Go on vacation with your family, treat your spouse to a nice weekend away. Just don''t be foolish about it.

ID, this is precisely my mantra, too.

Both Rich and I struggled with debt when we were younger and didn''t know each other. Both of us felt the crushing weight of feeling like you''d never get out from under it. Great experiences because we both learned from them, and we both place a major priority on saving money and having a solid cushion for the unexpected. We both live pretty debt free, too. Other than the mortgage, we''re fairly debt free. I paid half of my recent car in cash, and I''ll have the rest paid off by the summer. His is already paid off.

Having been "reborn" about money, he gets a little nervous at the idea of spending on things like a modest vacation, etc. I believe in saving for later, but I think it''s a mistake to put *everything* for later. There is no point in planning to live LATER when you could live and enjoy right along if you do it responsibly. There is no guarantee "later" will come, so striking a balance is key.

 

[SeattleSparkle]

Another "young" one chimming in here. I have always been frugal. I love getting a good deal.

I am now 23 and have been working since I was 15. I saved up every penny I ever earned and put myself through college. I didn''t do it with the help of credit cards, but I was able to get emergency loans from school which I had to pay back with in two quarters. It was tight and I managed to do it, but it was soooo hard for me to watch girls from my sorority go out all the time, while I sat at home because I really didn''t have any money to spare. (Not to mention watching the ridicious allowances coming in from their parents.) Many of them didn''t understand, and when the chapter would raise a fee by 30 dollars, they would be like, "its just 30 dollars ..." well, that was a ton of money to me!!

So when I left college, I was left w/ nothing. Since my parents didn''t leave near me, I didn''t have the option of moving home to save money. I got a "career-type" job upon leaving college and negotiated the salary with them, knowing in the back of my head that their first offer to me wasn''t going to pay the bills.

I live in a very modest studio apartment (yes, I could have roommates, but after living with 95 girls for four years, living on your own is worth the extra money.) and I do have a car payment (the car was a "gift" from my mom for college graduation and the most generous thing I''d ever received ... it was just the down payment though ... so I''m really paying for the car. Which, if they hadn''t of given it to me, I probably would have bought one used.)

But, I do not have a credit card, and know that I really should get one. I pride myself on being for the most part debt-free but if I ever want to own a home (or rent a hotel room without any hassels for that matter) they are pretty much essential.

But I totally have friends who blow all their income on just dumb stuff and then get upset when they''re parents charge them $200 for rent (which in Seattle is a steal!!)

 

[MissAva]

My parents made sure I understood the value of money and how things like credit work. I still get confused when I fear girls talking about paying off a purse, or boys bar bills and electronics...I liked the article but I felt like it did not put enough of the responsibility on the people taking out the CC. The idea that we ought to strike out at the companies offering CC to students, no one is making them take those offers, the cost of having a CC is all there in black and white. I get between 2 and 18 (okay the 18 was just once) credit cards with my name on the in the mail a week. I have NEVER kept one.

When I decided I wanted a CC I did some research and chose the one that was best for me, that is a choice I made and my peers could make it as well. I pay my CC off in full every month, and I check my balance on-line at least once a week. I save and file my receipts and bills, I know that when I graduate this may if I don’t get into grad school that my credit will be a major issue while looking for housing and perhaps employment.

We are not entitled to anything and we should not be looking to others to solve our problems or to try and cover up our lack of responsibility.

 

[Sparkster]

I grew up poor. How poor? My parents are chinese migrants and came to Australia with no education and no english skills. They both worked crappy six day a week jobs for crappy pay - supporting 3 children. Up until the age of 5, we lived in a rented 2 bedroom run down house. My sister and I shared a single bed (sleeping head to toe) in our parents bedroom. My brother had his own bedroom (just big enough to fit his single bed and a desk for his studies). Our bathroom (if you could call it that) was located in the outdoor laundry as was the outdoor toilet. The only toys we had were given to us as presents by our parents friends. They saved like crazy and bought a house in 1976 for $45k.

My first job was as a check out chick during high school where I earned $50 a week. By this stage, my father had died and my mum was on a pension earning about $130 a week! Out of this $50 I paid mum $10. It wasn''t a lot of money but it showed me responsibility. When I left high school I got a job as a receptionist and paid $50 a week board. I honestly believe that because I grew up poor, I understand and value money.

I lived with mum until I was 26. A lot of you might think that''s quite late and in a lot of ways it was. It was mutually beneficial to both my mum and me. She was 65 and earning a piddly pension and my board helped her out a lot. At the age of 26 I bought an investment property with the money I was able to save living with mum. I believe the way I was brought up, struggling - has taught me to be wise with my money. I hardly ever use my credit card - the way I see it, if I don''t have the money, then I don''t buy it.

I fear for today''s children. So many parents spoil their children. They are given so much without having earning it. It didn''t hurt me to save and wait for the luxury items that I wanted in life. Look at today''s children - they all have mobile phones (who pays their bills? - the parents!), they have ipods, they have designer clothes. They will want to continue having these sort of things as they become adults and the only way most of them will get it is by going into debt.

 

[Mara]

Actually the talk of spoiling the children and not having discussions about money is a huge issue IMO...that is kind of how I was with my parents, I knew I just had to talk about it enough and I'd eventually get it. I didn't really learn too much about patience or how to save for something you wanted, I also didn't really get an allowance so my parents just bought me what I wanted for the most part. My sisters got it WORSE...they are so spoiled, part of why the 22 year old has no concept of not buying the way she did when she was living under my parents roof.

I think that parents working with the kids to show them the importance of money, saving for something special, saving just in general and how not to over-extend yourself is KEY. What I saw when I was younger was my Mom charging all sorts of things for the house and then paying them over time. She's definitely the spender and my Dad is the saver. So really I thought oh if Mom can do it then I'm an adult so can I! Newsflash, bills don't just pay themslelves. Funny thing was I have always been responsible in other areas, aka held down 2 jobs while in college, been working at some gig since I was 16 etc. But with money it took me years to figure out the smart way to manage it...and I'm still learning! For me it IS about a balance of saving and spending, as I don't believe in 'hoarding' because you don't know that you will be around in 40 years to see it, but I also don't believe in spending frivolously. It's about priorities and where yours are and what is important to you and what you can forgo to have XYZ vs having ABC and XYZ and JKL all at once.

Oh and F&I I will say that I love LV bags and expensive jeans but I usually get my jeans on eBay or during sales once I know what styles I like and I believe in expensive bags like an LV because they ARE made well and they also fix them when they break etc. For me it's worth it in some instances to get a more expensive item if I know that it will stand the test of time and last me longer than a cheaper item. But I also don't buy a new car every 3 years or spend in other areas that most people do. It's about that balance and push and pull on sacrifices and priorities. Have fun but be smart about it too.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I''m really surprised to read that some of you choose not to have a credit card. Of couse, I''m not looking at this in the perspective that one would forego over-charging for stuff they can''t afford, but more as why anyone would overlook the advantage a credit card has in establishing credit and also, for providing security for many transactions. I use my CC for all online purchases just in case there''s a problem with the order. If you use a debit for online orders and there''s a problem, your money may not be refunded for a month or more and there are more hassles involved.

If you get a CC that has locally operating branches, you can just pop over to the bank and pay the card balance off the same day you make an order! Very easy

 

[Rhapsody]

It seems so easy to say "you should never use your credit card", but when you''re faced with the option of not eatting or being evicted what choices do you really have? Yes, there are the young people who use their credit to buy designer clothes and electronic toys, there are those of us (me included) who had to use it to keep from being on the street.

I''m sorry, but its so frustrating to hear people say "there are ways to avoid debt". I worked two part time jobs all the way through school, usually making minimun wage or not much better. My boyfriend worked a 9-5 job all through school and took night classes. And we could still barely keep on top of living expenses. Its hard to listen to people younger than me who have families that are obviously wealthy and have probably never had to face being homeless (they could always live in their SUVs I guess) say that people should be more responsible with their money.

Sorry. This obviously just strikes a nerve for me, and it seems that a lot of people here forget or have never known what its like to truly have no money.

 

[ladykemma]

Rainbow trout said: Once again though, he only has multi-thousand dollars in savings at his age because his parents would announce they would pay for things and then yank the money away, or not pay at all.

it's a very subtle form of control and abuse.... are you aware of types of abuse? like lucy with the football.

(at some point your bf will mentally tell them to go **&^ off and get on with his life. ) freedom from abuse, yay!

good luck with everything, Ms. trout!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/16/2006 5:39:58 PM
Author: Mara
Oh and F&I I will say that I love LV bags and expensive jeans but I usually get my jeans on eBay or during sales once I know what styles I like and I believe in expensive bags like an LV because they ARE made well and they also fix them when they break etc. For me it''s worth it in some instances to get a more expensive item if I know that it will stand the test of time and last me longer than a cheaper item. But I also don''t buy a new car every 3 years or spend in other areas that most people do. It''s about that balance and push and pull on sacrifices and priorities. Have fun but be smart about it too.

We all have our frivilous items we spend money on. I like expensive Barolo''s that (as one person put it hehe) - I piss it away.

My point about the LV bag is that some will buy for the wrong reasons & wonder why they don''t have a pot to pee in.

It''s the entitlement of it all & wanting EVERYTHING because it''s what you should have. And, NEEDING it as some sort of right. Many don''t seem to think of the opportunity costs associated with buying things that will be of no value. Or the value of shopping for value.

 

[Mara]

Rhapsody, I don''t think anyone is saying that if you have debt or don''t have a house or can''t save alot then you are bad at managing your money, it doesn''t sound like you are frivolous with items...that''s what I see more as the discussion here. Food and lodging when you are struggling or down on your luck is one thing but buying diamond and cars and things on credit permanently is quite the other. I wouldn''t take offense at what is being said, IMO people are just giving their opinions or what they have gone through or how smart or dumb they were, everyone is different. Greg never had any debt and was always super responsible with money and it surprises him that so many others are NOT and he says ''Wow how could you NOT know what you are getting yourself into?''...Well tons of people who are otherwise ''smart'' do it too. Gosh out of everyone I know about 90% of them had some sort of college debt or problems with money at some point that they had to clean up, I really think the smart from the get-go ones are the minority, unfortunately!

For me, rather than being embarassed that I was a dumb shopping college student, I am very proud that I got past it, that now my credit is excellent, we were able to buy a townhouse in a very high-priced area and it''s done quite well with appreciation so that we can hopefully get an actual house with land in a few years, we are close to being almost debt free except for our mortgage and for the most part we shop pretty smart and don''t get too frivolous. I''ve come a long way and I wouldn''t change the past struggles for anything.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 1/16/2006 6:04:26 PM
Author: Rhapsody
Sorry. This obviously just strikes a nerve for me, and it seems that a lot of people here forget or have never known what its like to truly have no money.

I find this entire topic of spending money wisely entertaining considering it''s taking place here on a forum dedicated to diamonds! Even more amusing are the lofty ideals floating around.

Hmmm, whatever!

FWIW, I wouldn''t hesitate to use my CC for food or for a purse that will take me three months to pay off. I''ve done both at different times in my life. I agree with the view already stated that you have to balance enjoyement of life with controlling level of debt!

 

[princessv]

Mara I can relate alot to your posts about dumb shopping habits in college. I was treated the same way as you were when growing up. No allowance so basically I was given whatever I wanted. When I was in undergrad, I got a full scholarship plus a small spending stipend every semester...I still ended up with some debt from undergrad which wouldn''t be so bad if I went straight to the working world.

Now in law school my student loans by the time I graduate will cost me a nice sized house.

But I knew going into grad school that my parents couldn''t support me and my tuition and this was something that I really wanted to do so I chose this and have been scrimping and saving for the past 1 1/2 years with another 1 1/2 years till I get out. I know that even when I do get out and make some $$ that I will have to be very very careful or else I''ll never get out of debt. At least with my fiance, he won''t have any debt when he graduates..I just wish I could say the same for me. So in this aspect, I''m looking for jobs around the area where my parents are and am seriously thinking about living with my parents when I get out of school for a year so I can get somewhat out of debt and put a nice down payment on a house.

Not how I would like things to be...but I really see no other way.

 

[allycat0303]

Well I'm 25 years old and I've never owned a credit card. Credit history, yes probably important, but the ONLY thing I am willing to borrow for is the mortgage. And banks look at salary, and salary to debt ratio too when they consider lending. In any case, my boyfriend and I had no problems getting the mortgage.Although I do have to say that my parents paid for my undergrad tuition, so I was lucky.

My boyfriend, however, put himself through school, and as a grad student I earned a small salary, and 3 years after he graduated we had paid his student loans off (with no help from either set of parents). His parents were very poor and he was on his own from the time he was 18 years old. We own a car and a house (35% downpayment, again with no help from either set of parents), currently the ONLY debt we have is the recently acquired mortgage. My boyfriend has a credit card with a $500 limit. So I don't necessarily agree that if a youngish person has a nice house, a nice ring, and a car means they are up to their eyeballs in debt, or that their parents gave them everything. Some of us have made supreme sacrifices for the things we have, it's variable depending on the person, all sorts of people exist in the world.

For example, the 3 years after he graduated, we lived SOOO frugally it was crazy. The rent was $350 a month in a terrible part of town, basement, plumbing exploded once, rabid dog killed my cat and our neighbor was a hooker, and we went on 4 date nights (under $40) the entire year. And yes, if we didn't have money, we went hungry because I was WAY to proud to ask my parents for help. In those three years I bought 4 articles of clothing a year so I really learnt what it was to live small. And now, we still live almost as small (although we have date night every 2nd week now, but still the $40 budget), and I get a bigger clothes budget, but by no means is it generous.

I'm currently in med school, but I told my boyfriend that even when I'm a doctor I'm taking public transportation because there's no way I'm paying for car/gas/insurance. I think what the thread is saying is to live within your means (whatever they are), if you're in good debt, it's no big deal, student loans are an investment. If you owe tons of money because of going out, designer clothes, etc., not so good.

 

[Rhapsody]

Mara, its just the people who say "look at how responsible I am, I have no debt" when they havent had to pay for most things they have. I spent my first semester of school at CU Boulder, land of the trust fund kids who sit around remarking how cool and counter culture they are because they refuse to work for "the man". Even the hippies are freaking yuppies!

We live in a hugely materialistic society, and the things we own are tied in to our sense of self worth and change the way people percieve us. Theres a lot of people with a LOT of money, and its hard to look at it and think "I will never have that", because in all likeliness I never will. Its difficult when you work so hard and see people who havent worked for their money (the yuppie hippies for example) who look at you and say "how quaint, you have to SAVE to buy that?".

I do agree that parents arent teaching their kids good money managing habits. Half of it is because they set poor examples, some want to be "good" parents so they get their kids whatever they want and some just dont think about it. My parents probably had the money to spoil me but they both left home at 16 and told me that I have to earn anything I want. I was never given an allowance (they felt doing chores was something that was required and not to be rewarded) but the money I was given for birthdays and holidays I had to manage to buy what I wanted. When I got my first job at 16 my parents started charging me rent and I had to pay for anything I wanted or needed. I even had to pay the insurance deductible when I went to the doctor. When I hit 18 they told me as an adult I was on my own. They could have helped me through school, they chose not to. They never really taught me how to manage my money, I''ve had to figure it all out on my own as things come up. Like how to pay for the 5000 dollars in car repairs my boyfriend and I are looking at

MC, lol I agree. I dont think diamond buying will ever be considered a wise way to spend your money. And it is about balancing saving your money and enjoying it. I''m hoping maybe this year I''ll have enough money to enjoy some of it

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 1/16/2006 7:41:16 PM
Author: Rhapsody

Mara, its just the people who say ''look at how responsible I am, I have no debt'' when they havent had to pay for most things they have. I spent my first semester of school at CU Boulder, land of the trust fund kids who sit around remarking how cool and counter culture they are because they refuse to work for ''the man''. Even the hippies are freaking yuppies!

We live in a hugely materialistic society, and the things we own are tied in to our sense of self worth and change the way people percieve us. Theres a lot of people with a LOT of money, and its hard to look at it and think ''I will never have that'', because in all likeliness I never will. Its difficult when you work so hard and see people who havent worked for their money (the yuppie hippies for example) who look at you and say ''how quaint, you have to SAVE to buy that?''.

I can understand how frustrating that must be, but there are folks who are debt free who''ve had to pay for everything themselves, too.

My folks couldn''t afford to pay anything toward my college; I took out student loans and worked during college. When I got out, I got my own place. My first living room set cost me a whopping $30. Yep, that''s right - $30. I spent $20 on a sofa, $5 on an avocado green easy chair, and $5 on a coffee table.....all used. VERY generously used, in fact.

I struggled with student loans and the whole thing. My 13-inch, non-remote color TV was given to me for my 20th birthday, and it was the only TV I owned for nearly 8 years. It wasn''t until I was 30 years old that I actually bought a major piece of furniture that was NEW....as in not used by someone else before.

When I lost my job at 30 and had NOTHING saved, it was an eye-opener. I learned the value of saving then, and it''s a lesson that stuck. If I have to eat plain pasta for a week, fine....but I HAVE to save money. It''s a peace-of-mind issue for me. It totally changed my way of life. No longer did I buy something without saving for it first. It actually made me appreciate things much more having to work toward getting them.

Yes, we do live in a materialistic society, but that doesn''t mean you have to play that game. I often joke with Rich that robbers would be terribly disappointed to hit our house, because we don''t have the latest ANYTHING. Our behemoth TV is about 8 years old; we don''t even HAVE a stereo. We have a little radio on top of the fridge, and that''s all we want.

I don''t much care what others think or not...I don''t care what they think of the car I drive or the house I live in or the things I own. I don''t give a rat''s behind about expensive shoes, jeans or handbags. Even my diamonds aren''t to impress others; I get them because they make *me* happy, and because I forgo other indulgences to get them. I''m sure some people like expensive handbags and expensive shoes and forgo other things to get them.

Don''t make your sense of self-worth dependent on what you have. Are you a good person? Do you love with abandon? Do you help others? Are you kind-hearted? Do others say "I can rely on her"? Those are the things to measure your self-worth by.

 

[Rhapsody]

Ally, all of your saving and scrimping paid off. Now you have a fabulous ring and a fantastic house. I want to know what your boyfriend does to make so much money though, I think I need to change careers

Alj, my boyfriend got laid off VERY enexpectedly (a month before they had given him a promotion

) and we had felt confident enough that we sank als the money we had managed to save into buying a reliable car for him. He tried to scramble and get all the contract work he could, and I begged and pleaded for more hours at both of my jobs but they wouldnt let me work more because it would push me into full time and then they''d have to pay for insurance for me. It took 5 months for my boyfriend to find a job and it was getting really scary at the end.

We live in a little basement thingy that was convered into an apartment. Its no even big enough for a full couch, we have a love seat that someone left by the dumpster with a "free" sign on it. We buy pasta roni in bulk when they go on sale for 3 for a dollar and thats dinner most nights. I dont judge what I''m worth based on what I have, but when I see these girls on here and around me, buying their first houses, driving their new cars, enjoying their engagement rings that are worth more than everything my boyfriend and I own put together it does make me sad that I cant afford what I need, let alone the things I want.

 

[decodelighted]

Rhapsody,
Hang in there! Lots of folks have been where you are (me included!) Since then I''ve had some "FAT" times & some "LEAN" times. You''ll appreciate things you have WAY more than the "hippie yuppies" do I''m sure.

I work in the arts & that is a no-stability, wonder where your next paycheck is coming from STRESSFEST. But I''ve really celebrated my financial accomplishments (even if they came later than peers)

1st trip abroad - 30
1st "fancy" watch - self purchased - 30
1st "fancy" handbag - self purchased - 32
1st new car - 35
Bought own home (by myself) - 36
Then check this out ... laid off & lived off savings for 8 months - 37

Wanting/yearning & even some jealousy can be a good motivator to seek out more for yourself than you would have otherwise. As long as you never define yourself by possessions or income or how you "stack up" in material matters. I''m rooting for ya!!