Would you say this woman is beautiful?

[joflier]

I voted no, purely on face value. I personally don''t care for extenstive tattoos, especially on the face. That goes for men,women, young, or old. I agree with whoever posted that beauty comes from within. It does, and without knowing this lady personally, I can''t judge on her inner beauty.
But I can appreciate other cultures, and knowing the background to these tattoos gives reason to pause. I wonder what she thinks when she looks in the mirror? Is it beautiful to her? A piece of history, or a part of herself? Or a reminder of what kind of a world we live in...

 

[missy]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:42:14 PM
Author: monarch64
I don't find tattoos on the face becoming. I don't find that picture pleasing to look at, it makes me uncomfortable because my mind knows that the tattoos are not naturally part of her, and I've been culturally conditioned to find it shocking and not in a good way. So, no, I don't find her beautiful.

Ditto. I guess we are coming from different cultural perspectives so I don't want to judge but from my perspective to do that to your face is *not* beautiful and even disfiguring. She may be beautiful inside and I am not making any judgments about that but aesthetically I do not find her face beautiful *because* of the tattoos.

 

[monarch64]

I was at an event at a restaurant a few weeks ago and there was a female server with a generous amount of facial tattoos. It was super distracting and I kept having to tell myself not to stare and to focus on the conversation at my table (we were there for a political fundraiser). It''s just so rare that I see an extensive amount of tattooing on someone''s face that it was shocking to my sense of "normal" I suppose. I sort of felt bad for staring but then I figured she''s probably used to that. *shrugs*

The face tatts just don''t jive with my perception of beauty. Otherwise, the woman in this picture has a purty face. And I''m not so sure the Spiderman comment was that far off...there definitely are similarities in the design, whether the comment was meant to be funny or inappropriate or not.

 

[Indylady]

Date: 6/17/2010 6:39:01 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 6/17/2010 5:27:42 PM
Author: kenny
The question was ''do you say this woman is beautiful?''

Each of us is entitled to answer yes or no.

That various cultures find various things beautiful is fine, but each of us is from our own culture and no matter how PC we are we are not expected to adopt the values of every culture.
Respecting other cultures is wonderful but we do not have to apologize for our own either.

Well said.

Answering that ''Yes, she''s beautiful because she has kind eyes, or a calm demeanor'' is the policitally correct version of the truth. The unadulterated truth is that most of us do not really consider her to be beautiful even if we find her interesting. If we would not do it to our own faces . . . and no one here probably would . . . then we, in fact, do not consider her ''facial art'' as a thing of beauty.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the truth. Trying not to step on anyone''s proverbial toes is going to be the cause of many a fallen arch someday.

I could see this as a future LSAT question.

 

[Prana]

I tend to see beauty in the unconventional, so I do think that she is very beautiful. I could look at her for a very long time and be happy.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 6/18/2010 11:34:51 AM
Author: monarch64
I was at an event at a restaurant a few weeks ago and there was a female server with a generous amount of facial tattoos. It was super distracting and I kept having to tell myself not to stare and to focus on the conversation at my table (we were there for a political fundraiser). It's just so rare that I see an extensive amount of tattooing on someone's face that it was shocking to my sense of 'normal' I suppose. I sort of felt bad for staring but then I figured she's probably used to that. *shrugs*

The face tatts just don't jive with my perception of beauty. Otherwise, the woman in this picture has a purty face. And I'm not so sure the Spiderman comment was that far off...there definitely are similarities in the design, whether the comment was meant to be funny or inappropriate or not.

I was not trying to be funny or inappropriate. It was my first reaction and an honest comment. Period.

I believe your comments are honest and appropriate as well.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 6/18/2010 1:07:35 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 6/18/2010 11:34:51 AM
Author: monarch64
I was at an event at a restaurant a few weeks ago and there was a female server with a generous amount of facial tattoos. It was super distracting and I kept having to tell myself not to stare and to focus on the conversation at my table (we were there for a political fundraiser). It''s just so rare that I see an extensive amount of tattooing on someone''s face that it was shocking to my sense of ''normal'' I suppose. I sort of felt bad for staring but then I figured she''s probably used to that. *shrugs*

The face tatts just don''t jive with my perception of beauty. Otherwise, the woman in this picture has a purty face. And I''m not so sure the Spiderman comment was that far off...there definitely are similarities in the design, whether the comment was meant to be funny or inappropriate or not.

I was not trying to be funny or inappropriate. It was my first reaction and an honest comment. Period.

I believe your comments are honest and appropriate as well.

I figured that, Holly. You might have some differing opinions on things here but I''ve never witnessed you being intentionally mean-spirited.

 

[somethingshiny]

The comment, "If we wouldn''t do it to our own faces...then we do not consider her facial art a thing of beauty." is something I really don''t agree with.

I find lots of things beautiful that I wouldn''t wear. Beauty does not necessarily equal your personal style. I find brunettes extremely attractive but would never color my own hair. I love the sound of an Irish brogue but don''t go around trying to imitate it. And, I happen to love tattoos. I wouldn''t tattoo my own face, but I still find beauty in the artistry of hers. (just not particularly the story behind it.)

I think the woman is beautiful either way, but her tattoo doesn''t affect it. I will admit if I saw her walking down the street in my town I''d be hard-pressed not to stare because it''s so outside the norm. But, perhaps people feel the same way about me...

 

[kenny]

I think a discussion of what constitutes beauty is really healthy.

The media and the multi-trillion dollar beauty industry define it so narrowly and in a way that keeps you hemorrhaging money to attain and maintain the impossible.

I'm please to hear so many women here define beauty in a more organic way.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 6/18/2010 1:11:17 PM
Author: monarch64

Date: 6/18/2010 1:07:35 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 6/18/2010 11:34:51 AM
Author: monarch64
I was at an event at a restaurant a few weeks ago and there was a female server with a generous amount of facial tattoos. It was super distracting and I kept having to tell myself not to stare and to focus on the conversation at my table (we were there for a political fundraiser). It''s just so rare that I see an extensive amount of tattooing on someone''s face that it was shocking to my sense of ''normal'' I suppose. I sort of felt bad for staring but then I figured she''s probably used to that. *shrugs*

The face tatts just don''t jive with my perception of beauty. Otherwise, the woman in this picture has a purty face. And I''m not so sure the Spiderman comment was that far off...there definitely are similarities in the design, whether the comment was meant to be funny or inappropriate or not.

I was not trying to be funny or inappropriate. It was my first reaction and an honest comment. Period.

I believe your comments are honest and appropriate as well.

I figured that, Holly. You might have some differing opinions on things here but I''ve never witnessed you being intentionally mean-spirited.

Thank you. I knew you weren''t ''throwing me under the bus'', which is the favorite activity here at PS, but I do appreciate that you don''t think I''m deliberately being mean-spirited.

It boils down to this:

The truth is the truth. The question was to all of us. The answers should be individual and honest. We don''t all have to think she''s beautiful. We don''t all have to take our cues from what 20 other people said.

And, yes, since I was asked my opinion, then my opinion is valid. No matter how I ''arrived'' at it. No matter my cultural references. No matter that (God forbid) I have a skewed Western viewpoint about beauty. And most importantly, no matter what the forum quorum believes.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 6/18/2010 1:20:23 PM
Author: somethingshiny
The comment, ''If we wouldn''t do it to our own faces...then we do not consider her facial art a thing of beauty.'' is something I really don''t agree with.

I find lots of things beautiful that I wouldn''t wear. Beauty does not necessarily equal your personal style. I find brunettes extremely attractive but would never color my own hair. I love the sound of an Irish brogue but don''t go around trying to imitate it. And, I happen to love tattoos. I wouldn''t tattoo my own face, but I still find beauty in the artistry of hers. (just not particularly the story behind it.)

I think the woman is beautiful either way, but her tattoo doesn''t affect it. I will admit if I saw her walking down the street in my town I''d be hard-pressed not to stare because it''s so outside the norm. But, perhaps people feel the same way about me...

Why, thank you, Shiny!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 6/18/2010 1:29:13 PM
Author: HollyS

Thank you. I knew you weren''t ''throwing me under the bus'', which is the favorite activity here at PS, but I do appreciate that you don''t think I''m deliberately being mean-spirited.

It boils down to this:

The truth is the truth. The question was to all of us. The answers should be individual and honest. We don''t all have to think she''s beautiful. We don''t all have to take our cues from what 20 other people said.

And, yes, since I was asked my opinion, then my opinion is valid. No matter how I ''arrived'' at it. No matter my cultural references. No matter that (God forbid) I have a skewed Western viewpoint about beauty. And most importantly, no matter what the forum quorum believes.

Really??? And here, I didn''t even know we HAD a bus!!! When did this happen, and where was I???

 

[kenny]

Date: 6/18/2010 1:29:13 PM
Author: HollyS
The truth is the truth.
The question was to all of us.
The answers should be individual and honest.
We don't all have to think she's beautiful.
We don't all have to take our cues from what 20 other people said.

Truth is universal and absolute.
Truth applies to what 2+2 equals but not to beauty.

Beauty is opinion.
Sure, it can be true that a person's opinion is she is not beautiful.

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 6/18/2010 1:29:13 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 6/18/2010 1:11:17 PM

Author: monarch64

Date: 6/18/2010 1:07:35 PM

Author: HollyS

Date: 6/18/2010 11:34:51 AM

Author: monarch64

I was at an event at a restaurant a few weeks ago and there was a female server with a generous amount of facial tattoos. It was super distracting and I kept having to tell myself not to stare and to focus on the conversation at my table (we were there for a political fundraiser). It''s just so rare that I see an extensive amount of tattooing on someone''s face that it was shocking to my sense of ''normal'' I suppose. I sort of felt bad for staring but then I figured she''s probably used to that. *shrugs*


The face tatts just don''t jive with my perception of beauty. Otherwise, the woman in this picture has a purty face. And I''m not so sure the Spiderman comment was that far off...there definitely are similarities in the design, whether the comment was meant to be funny or inappropriate or not.

I was not trying to be funny or inappropriate. It was my first reaction and an honest comment. Period.


I believe your comments are honest and appropriate as well.

I figured that, Holly. You might have some differing opinions on things here but I''ve never witnessed you being intentionally mean-spirited.

Thank you. I knew you weren''t ''throwing me under the bus'', which is the favorite activity here at PS, but I do appreciate that you don''t think I''m deliberately being mean-spirited.


It boils down to this:


The truth is the truth. The question was to all of us. The answers should be individual and honest. We don''t all have to think she''s beautiful. We don''t all have to take our cues from what 20 other people said.


And, yes, since I was asked my opinion, then my opinion is valid. No matter how I ''arrived'' at it. No matter my cultural references. No matter that (God forbid) I have a skewed Western viewpoint about beauty. And most importantly, no matter what the forum quorum believes.

The Truth is there is no one definition of beauty.

The truth is you made a general statement assuming WE would not consider something beautiful if WE would not do it to or wear it for ourselves.

Your statements ranged far from any truth.

The truth is this woman could be viewed as beautiful by many.

The truth is it was asked in reference to individual opinions. You cannot generalize to include myself or 20 other people in your opinion by saying "we".

 

[somethingshiny]

Kenny~ I agree with your post, but I think (and correct me if I''m wrong, Holly) that Holly''s intention was that her opinion was HONEST. I think you (Kenny) and I see truth and honesty as two separate things. Truth is absolute, honesty is just not deceiving someone.

Holly~ I''ve never noticed you being thrown under a bus, perhaps I''ve avoided those topics to begin with. But, I''m sorry you feel attacked. However, it does matter to some how you arrived at your opinion. TO ME, if your opinion is just thrown out there with nothing to back it up, it means nothing. I understand that you believe if you wouldn''t do it to yourself, then you don''t find it attractive. So, while I don''t AGREE with your thought process, you still have one and of course you have every right to share it. But, I don''t think generalizing about HOW we came to our conclusions is valid.

 

[monarch64]

I have an overwhelming urge to say "true dat" with absolutely no meaning behind it. So, true dat. Ha!

I didn''t feel like Holly was speaking for me, I thought she meant "we" as in collectively.......ehhh this is pointless. N/M.

 

[VRBeauty]

Interesting discussion!

The question calls for a yes or no answer -- do YOU think she is beautiful -- yes or no.

but... it''s not a question of fact, it calls for an opinion. And opinions can involve initial perceptions, and re-evaluations, and cultural expectations,and personal biases/fears/preferences etc.

In my case my initial reaction to a very tattooed face, and large ear-holes, would in most cases be negative. But extensive tattoos and large ear-holes are fairly common where I live, and I''ve had many interactions with people who sport them, and I''m learning not to let that initial reaction interfere with those interactions. In fact, that initial reaction is lessening.

In the case of this picture I do see exquisitely beautiful eyes and facial structure, and what seems to be a very serene demeanor, that are far more compelling (to me) than the tattoos. If she looks like this at her age, I imagine that she was or could have been quite a beauty when she was younger too.

 

[kenny]

Date: 6/18/2010 1:50:12 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Kenny~ I agree with your post, but I think (and correct me if I'm wrong, Holly) that Holly's intention was that her opinion was HONEST. I think you (Kenny) and I see truth and honesty as two separate things. Truth is absolute, honesty is just not deceiving someone.

I totally support the legitimacy of honest opinions, whatever they are.
And sure, if that (for Holly it is truth that she does not see this woman as beautiful) is what she means by truth is truth, then great.
She is 100% entitled to her opinion, whatever it is.

But if she means the truth is that the woman is not beautiful, I disagree with using the term truth for beauty.

I have a friend who will go to a museum, point at something and say, "That's not good art", as if it is not her opinion, but rather that it is absolute truth.
She thinks that highly of herself.
She gets furious when anyone points this out to her. (Holly I'm not saying you do this, I'm not throwing you under a bus or attacking you.)

 

[somethingshiny]

I also think that our own perceptions of beauty change over time.

At one time, a guy with a flat stomach and bulging muscles would have appealed to me greatly. But, as I''ve gotten older, I think men with more meat on them and some gray are for more attractive.

 

[Diamond*Dana]

I would say so, yes.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

To be perfectly honest, I''d have to say no. I don''t find facial tattoos very attractive. Just my opinion.

I DO find her face to be interesting, striking, and pleasing in the sense that she has even, expressive features and has unusual tattooing. But beautiful? No.

 

[trillionaire]

Nope. I hate tattoos. In a different culture and time, I would probably answer differently.

If she was walking down my street, I would wonder what on earth she was thinking. I do not think that Seal with his tribal markings on his face is attractive either. I prefer natural beauty.


my .02

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/18/2010 8:50:31 PM
Author: trillionaire
Nope. I hate tattoos. In a different culture and time, I would probably answer differently.

If she was walking down my street, I would wonder what on earth she was thinking. I do not think that Seal with his tribal markings on his face is attractive either. I prefer natural beauty.


my .02

Trill - Seal does not have tribal markings. He had discoid lupus erythematosus as a teenager, resulting in facial scarring. It's in remission now. He's spoken about it in several interviews, not sure if I can find one now, but if you search you should be able to find one pretty easily.

/end threadjack

 

[HollyS]

Date: 6/18/2010 2:00:16 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 6/18/2010 1:50:12 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Kenny~ I agree with your post, but I think (and correct me if I''m wrong, Holly) that Holly''s intention was that her opinion was HONEST. I think you (Kenny) and I see truth and honesty as two separate things. Truth is absolute, honesty is just not deceiving someone.

I totally support the legitimacy of honest opinions, whatever they are.
And sure, if that (for Holly it is truth that she does not see this woman as beautiful) is what she means by truth is truth, then great.
She is 100% entitled to her opinion, whatever it is.

But if she means the truth is that the woman is not beautiful, I disagree with using the term truth for beauty.

I have a friend who will go to a museum, point at something and say, ''That''s not good art'', as if it is not her opinion, but rather that it is absolute truth.
She thinks that highly of herself.
She gets furious when anyone points this out to her. (Holly I''m not saying you do this, I''m not throwing you under a bus or attacking you.)

Of course I mean that I was SPEAKING THE TRUTH ABOUT MY OPINION. There is no ''truth'' to the way this woman looks - - it is all our own perception. What I think (that facial tattooing is not attractive) is not a truth, but it is TRUE that I have this opinion. I was merely being honest with myself when answering the question.

Is her facial art . . . art? Yes. It was done in a pattern to be an artistic expression. Does the pattern have a beauty to it? Yes. Does she have very soulful eyes and an enigmatic smile? Well, sure.

But IMHO, the tattooing of her face does not represent beauty to me. Which was the point of the question, was it not?

I''m exhausted with this. Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Autumnovember]

Holly,

I wasn''t trying to bully anyone, really.


I respect your opinions. I was just bothered by your spiderman comment...thats all.

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 6/17/2010 4:22:29 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 6/17/2010 4:19:29 PM

Author: ilovethiswebsite

Yes! In an unconventional way. She is definitely interesting to look at!

That''s how I felt.

i also thought the same thing.

 

[missy]

The saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" holds true. And I agree with the poster who said that our perception of beauty changes over time. Absolutely agree.
And I say thank goodness we all find different things beautiful otherwise the world would be a dull place. Anyone remember that twilight zone episode "eye of the beholder" (or something like that). Ooh, I get chills remembering that episode!

 

[Cehrabehra]

I''ve been thinking about this woman and I think I know one of the reasons I find her so beautiful even when I think that newly painted faces show no charm... I think it is because she has worn this so long it is almost as though it is truly part of her face and it has aged together in ways that make her own lines and the lines from the ink complimentary - on top of her beautiful bone structure.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/18/2010 1:29:13 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 6/18/2010 1:11:17 PM

Author: monarch64

Date: 6/18/2010 1:07:35 PM

Author: HollyS

Date: 6/18/2010 11:34:51 AM

Author: monarch64

I was at an event at a restaurant a few weeks ago and there was a female server with a generous amount of facial tattoos. It was super distracting and I kept having to tell myself not to stare and to focus on the conversation at my table (we were there for a political fundraiser). It''s just so rare that I see an extensive amount of tattooing on someone''s face that it was shocking to my sense of ''normal'' I suppose. I sort of felt bad for staring but then I figured she''s probably used to that. *shrugs*


The face tatts just don''t jive with my perception of beauty. Otherwise, the woman in this picture has a purty face. And I''m not so sure the Spiderman comment was that far off...there definitely are similarities in the design, whether the comment was meant to be funny or inappropriate or not.

I was not trying to be funny or inappropriate. It was my first reaction and an honest comment. Period.


I believe your comments are honest and appropriate as well.

I figured that, Holly. You might have some differing opinions on things here but I''ve never witnessed you being intentionally mean-spirited.

Thank you. I knew you weren''t ''throwing me under the bus'', which is the favorite activity here at PS, but I do appreciate that you don''t think I''m deliberately being mean-spirited.


It boils down to this:


The truth is the truth. The question was to all of us. The answers should be individual and honest. We don''t all have to think she''s beautiful. We don''t all have to take our cues from what 20 other people said.


And, yes, since I was asked my opinion, then my opinion is valid. No matter how I ''arrived'' at it. No matter my cultural references. No matter that (God forbid) I have a skewed Western viewpoint about beauty. And most importantly, no matter what the forum quorum believes.

threadjack - I just wanted to say that I have been posting on message boards for almost 15 years and PS is super mild. What you consider throwing under a bus is just a natural side effect of group dynamics on a forum like this. I''ve seen it over and over time and time again and what you have here is so mellow. The mods here keep things going very smoothly. Anyone who has spent any time on other boards, especially debate boards, knows this. I don''t think anyone here is intentionally throwing anyone under the bus, we disagree and when we disagree en masse it feels like you''re ganged up on. You may feel that for a long time but everyone else forgets almost instantly. I''ve been in the hot seat so many times... just thought I''d point out that the hot seat here is more like a bum warmer

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/18/2010 10:20:06 AM
Author: dragonfly411
Cehra - just to clarify in case it came as confusing. I didn''t mean for it to translate as ''I''m this way and if you aren''t this way then oh well''. It was more of a ''if you don''t like me as I am, I could care less, I am happy'' type of air to a person.... if that makes sense.



Freke''s comment is pretty close to how I feel about her as well.



Btw... I was also bothered by the Spiderman comment.

For me the spiderman comment didn''t bother me at all, not even a tiny bit. Accusing those who thought she was beautiful of being insincere bothered me.

As for the first part above, how about we say, "your opinion of me is irrelevant but I only have high hopes for the opinion you have of yourself" lol