Who has arthritis?

[whitewave]

I’d say my pain is down to about a 6. I’m hoping this was a flare and that the cortisone is starting to work.

My son has an appointment with the doc tomorrow for his wrist, so I’m going also to see if there is anything else he can suggest about the pain. I’m still elevating and icing it since it is acute, but at some point I need to get back to my life. I’m bored, my dogs are bored, etc

 

[missy]

I’d say my pain is down to about a 6. I’m hoping this was a flare and that the cortisone is starting to work.

My son has an appointment with the doc tomorrow for his wrist, so I’m going also to see if there is anything else he can suggest about the pain. I’m still elevating and icing it since it is acute, but at some point I need to get back to my life. I’m bored, my dogs are bored, etc

I am so sorry you are dealing with continuing chronic pain. Have you explored CBD oil? I don't know enough about it but it helps my dh who has zero cartilage left in either knee. I hope you find relief soon. Chronic pain is exhausting on many levels.

 

[whitewave]

I am so sorry you are dealing with continuing chronic pain. Have you explored CBD oil? I don't know enough about it but it helps my dh who has zero cartilage left in either knee. I hope you find relief soon. Chronic pain is exhausting on many levels.

I do have some in coconut oil as a carrier and I’ve been slathering it on at night before bed. (It’s been hurting when I turn during sleep).

I haven’t tried it yet during the day because I’m afraid it will make me sleepy. But today is a low key day, so maybe it’s a good day to try.

I also have capsules and a friend of mine said taking capsules helps her arthritis.

 

[whitewave]

I’m back at the ortho right now. Just got finished crying because of the pain.

I don’t know what to do. Maybe crutches to keep weight off my knee?

Dh thinks I need an MRI in case I have a torn meniscus.

 

[whitewave]

I am so sorry you are dealing with continuing chronic pain. Have you explored CBD oil? I don't know enough about it but it helps my dh who has zero cartilage left in either knee. I hope you find relief soon. Chronic pain is exhausting on many levels.

I rub Lazarus naturals on every night. I don’t feel like it does anything— maybe a small amount.

Thanks for the suggestion though

 

[missy]

I’m back at the ortho right now. Just got finished crying because of the pain.

I don’t know what to do. Maybe crutches to keep weight off my knee?

Dh thinks I need an MRI in case I have a torn meniscus.

Oh no I am so sorry. What does your orthopedist suggest? If an MRI might help shed light on what's causing your pain I think it is worth it. Have you had an Xray? I am guessing yes.

 

[missy]

I rub Lazarus naturals on every night. I don’t feel like it does anything— maybe a small amount.

Thanks for the suggestion though

Another thought. Have you tried Red Light therapy? I have read promising things about it and was thinking about starting it for some of my health issues. I actually have a unit my DH made me over a decade ago that is pretty nifty. For another issue but it might be helpful for you. Let me see if I can find any literature for you to read.

 

[missy]

Some links that may be helpful.

https://joovv.com/blogs/joovv-blog/...-proven-reduce-joint-pain-alleviate-arthritis

https://hormonesbalance.com/article...light/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

When I have more time I will search professional journal articles to see what data I can find on this. I realize the above links have a vested interest (ie selling products) but I do know of some anecdotal evidence where it has been helpful for arthritis.

 

[whitewave]

Thanks,@missy

He ordered an mri tomorrow and I go see him again on Thursday.

He said I probably did tear meniscus, but that the pain shouldn’t be getting worse.

I’ll look into the red light therapy, thanks.

 

[lyra]

Yes to the MRI, that's good.

 

[whitewave]

Yes to the MRI, that's good.

If this is from arthritis, I’m not joking when I say I want to schedule surgery. I can’t deal with this pain.

I’m new to acute pain. I don’t have time for this!!

 

[missy]

If this is from arthritis, I’m not joking when I say I want to schedule surgery. I can’t deal with this pain.

I’m new to acute pain. I don’t have time for this!!

Acute (and chronic) pain is exhausting on every level. People who haven't been through it cannot possibly get it. When it is 24/7 at any level let alone a moderate to severe level it is torturous. I am so sorry you are going through this and I hope you find relief soon. I hope you give red light a try and also wanted to ask you if you (and we might have even discussed this before as my brain is a sieve and things don't stick at times mainly because of my health issues) ever tried or heard of LDN. Low Dose Naltrexone. Can help with pain.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/

https://www.ldnresearchtrust.org/what-is-ldn


Again I apologize if we discussed this already but it was worth mentioning just in case. It might not help you at all but then again it might provide much needed relief.

 

[whitewave]

Acute (and chronic) pain is exhausting on every level. People who haven't been through it cannot possibly get it. When it is 24/7 at any level let alone a moderate to severe level it is torturous. I am so sorry you are going through this and I hope you find relief soon. I hope you give red light a try and also wanted to ask you if you (and we might have even discussed this before as my brain is a sieve and things don't stick at times mainly because of my health issues) ever tried or heard of LDN. Low Dose Naltrexone. Can help with pain.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/

https://www.ldnresearchtrust.org/what-is-ldn


Again I apologize if we discussed this already but it was worth mentioning just in case. It might not help you at all but then again it might provide much needed relief.

I don’t think we have discussed that before.

Well, the MRI is done and of course the tech can’t say anything, I have an appointment with the doc on Thursday morning to see what’s next. I forgot to say I have crutches now.

Missy, I continue to appreciate your help. I have a red skin care diode thing at the other house. I wonder if it’s the same thing.

 

[missy]

@whitewave it's my pleasure if I could do anything that would help provide you with relief. I don't know if your red skin care diode would be beneficial but here's another scientific journal article showing potential. Good luck on your MRI results.

https://arthritis-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/ar4354

Can osteoarthritis be treated with light?

Osteoarthritis is becoming more problematic as the population ages. Recent reports suggest that the benefit of anti-inflammatory drugs is unimpressive and the incidence of side effects is worrying. Low-level laser (light) therapy (LLLT) is an alternative approach with no known side effects and with reports of substantial therapeutic efficacy in osteoarthritis. In this issue of Arthritis Research & Therapy, Alves and colleagues used a rat model of osteoarthritis produced by intra-articular injection of the cartilage-degrading enzyme papain to test 810-nm LLLT. A single application of LLLT produced significant reductions in inflammatory cell infiltration and inflammatory cytokines 24 hours later. A lower laser power was more effective than a higher laser power. However, more work is necessary before the title question can be answered in the affirmative.

Abstract
In this issue of Arthritis Research & Therapy, Alves and colleagues [1] reported an interesting preclinical study suggesting that near-infrared light applied to the rat knee has significant benefits on joint inflammation in an animal model of osteoarthritis. One in every two persons in the US will experience some form of osteoarthritis in their lifetime, and the incidence is 80% in those over 75 [2]. Treatment is with analgesics (acetaminophen), non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) (ibuprofen and diclofenac), and COX2 inhibitors (Celebrex, Pfizer Inc., New York, NY, USA), but these therapies have significant risks of adverse effects, such as gastrointestinal bleeding with NSAIDs and myocardial infarction with COX2 inhibitors [3]. Low-level laser (light) therapy (LLLT) is a rapidly growing alternative approach to many medical conditions that require relief from pain and inflammation, stimulation of healing, and prevention of tissue death after injury or infarction [4]. The red or near-infrared photons are absorbed in cytochrome c oxidase (unit IV of the mitochondrial respiratory chain), thereby increasing mitochondrial respiration and ATP production and initiating signaling pathways mediated by reactive oxygen species, nitric oxide, and cyclic AMP, ultimately leading to activation of several transcription factors [5]. A large number of studies have examined the anti-inflammatory effects of LLLT and have reported reductions in inflammatory cell (neutrophils, macrophages, lymphocytes, and mast cells) infiltration in multiple pathologies and have shown reductions in several inflammatory cytokines, such as ILs and TNF-α. Many observers have reported that there is a biphasic dose response that operates in LLLT, and this means that increasing the total energy or the rate of energy delivery (power density) may be counterproductive, giving less overall benefit compared with lower doses of LLLT [6]. LLLT has been used clinically in osteoarthritis for many years but is still considered controversial. Although a Cochrane review [7] reported mixed and conflicting results, a subsequent analysis conducted by Bjordal and colleagues concluded that 'the Cochrane review conclusion was neither robust nor valid. Further sensitivity analyses with inclusion of valid non-included trials, performance of missing follow-up, and subgroup analyses revealed consistent and highly significant results in favor of active LLLT for osteoarthritis’ [8]. This disagreement in the literature suggests that much more work comprising animal studies, clinical trials, and systematic reviews will need to be done before LLLT becomes accepted as a valid therapy.

Alves and colleagues [1] used a clinically relevant model of osteoarthritis in which the proteolytic enzyme papain is injected into the rat knee joint, where it degrades the cartilage, thus causing inflammation. The knees received a single application of 4 J of energy from an 808-nm laser to the medial and lateral aspects of the knee, delivered at either 50 or 100 mW, and the rats were sacrificed after 24 hours. The authors found a significant reduction in inflammatory cells in fluid from synovial washing with both power levels but a bigger reduction in macrophages at the 50-mW power level. Reductions in IL-1β and IL-6 mRNA were found, with 50 mW being better than 100 mW, whereas a bigger reduction in TNF-α was seen with 100 mW. The authors hypothesized that the twice-longer illumination time needed to deliver the same energy at half the power may have been responsible for the better effect of the 50-mW laser application, and this agrees with a previous study that examined zymosan-induced arthritis in the rat knee [9] and found that a longer illumination time was more effective. Previous work from this group [10] had shown that LLLT in the same model increased angiogenesis and the amount of squamous epithelium while decreasing fibrosis in the joint. These results provide additional justification for the use of LLLT (especially near-infrared laser that has the tissue penetration required for joints) as a treatment for osteoarthritis. Nevertheless, it should be pointed out that the study was only an animal model, not a clinical study in human disease, and further studies will be necessary to define the benefits of LLLT in osteoarthritis. In addition to the demonstrated anti-inflammatory effects, LLLT may have benefits provided by its ability to act on nerves by reducing pain transmission and activating endogenous opioid receptors [11].

Abbreviations
IL:
Interleukin


LLLT:
Low-level laser (light) therapy

NSAID:
Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug

TNF-α:
Tumor necrosis factor-alpha.

Declarations
Acknowledgments
Research in the author’s laboratory is supported by National Institutes of Health grant R01AI050875.

References[/paste:font]

1. Alves AC, Vieira RP, Leal-Junior EC, Dos Santos SA, Ligeiro AP, Albertini R, Junior JA, de Carvalho PD: Effect of low level laser therapy on the expression of inflammatory mediators and on neutrophils and macrophages in acute joint inflammation. Arthritis Res Treat. 2013, 15: R116-10.1186/ar4296.View ArticleGoogle Scholar
2. Arden N, Nevitt MC: Osteoarthritis: epidemiology. Best Pract Res Clin Rheumatol. 2006, 20: 3-25. 10.1016/j.berh.2005.09.007.View ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
3. Cheng DS, Visco CJ: Pharmaceutical therapy for osteoarthritis. PM R. 2012, 4: S82-S88. 10.1016/j.pmrj.2012.02.009.View ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
4. Chung H, Dai T, Sharma SK, Huang YY, Carroll JD, Hamblin MR: The nuts and bolts of low-level laser (light) therapy. Ann Biomed Eng. 2012, 40: 516-533. 10.1007/s10439-011-0454-7.PubMed CentralView ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
5. Chen AC, Arany PR, Huang YY, Tomkinson EM, Sharma SK, Kharkwal GB, Saleem T, Mooney D, Yull FE, Blackwell TS, Hamblin MR: Low-level laser therapy activates NF-kB via generation of reactive oxygen species in mouse embryonic fibroblasts. PLoS ONE. 2011, 6: e22453-10.1371/journal.pone.0022453.PubMed CentralView ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
6. Huang YY, Chen AC, Carroll JD, Hamblin MR: Biphasic dose response in low level light therapy. Dose Response. 2009, 7: 358-383. 10.2203/dose-response.09-027.Hamblin.PubMed CentralView ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
7. Brosseau L, Welch V, Wells G, DeBie R, Gam A, Harman K, Morin M, Shea B, Tugwell P: Low level laser therapy (Classes I, II and III) for treating osteoarthritis. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2004, 3: CD002046Google Scholar
8. Bjordal JM, Bogen B, Lopes-Martins RA, Klovning A: Can Cochrane Reviews in controversial areas be biased? A sensitivity analysis based on the protocol of a Systematic Cochrane Review on low-level laser therapy in osteoarthritis. Photomed Laser Surg. 2005, 23: 453-458. 10.1089/pho.2005.23.453.View ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
9. Castano AP, Dai T, Yaroslavsky I, Cohen R, Apruzzese WA, Smotrich MH, Hamblin MR: Low-level laser therapy for zymosan-induced arthritis in rats: importance of illumination time. Lasers Surg Med. 2007, 39: 543-550. 10.1002/lsm.20516.PubMed CentralView ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
10. da Rosa AS, dos Santos AF, da Silva MM, Facco GG, Perreira DM, Alves AC, Leal Junior EC, de Carvalho Pde T: Effects of low-level laser therapy at wavelengths of 660 and 808 nm in experimental model of osteoarthritis. Photochem Photobiol. 2012, 88: 161-166. 10.1111/j.1751-1097.2011.01032.x.View ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
11. Cidral-Filho FJ, Mazzardo-Martins L, Martins DF, Santos AR: Light-emitting diode therapy induces analgesia in a mouse model of postoperative pain through activation of peripheral opioid receptors and the L-arginine/nitric oxide pathway. Lasers Med Sci. 2013, Epub ahead of printGoogle Scholar

Copyright
© BioMed Central Ltd. 2013
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[Karl_K]

I am so sorry to hear your pain is worsening.
Prayers are outgoing!

 

[whitewave]

I am so sorry to hear your pain is worsening.
Prayers are outgoing!

Thank you, Karl.

 

[SparkleFest]

I'm sorry whitewave...........many hugs

 

[whitewave]

@SparkleFest thank you.

Well, drumroll please.....

I have a stress fracture in my tibia, completely blow out knee, torn meniscus that isn’t even in the right place really and severe arthritis. Another appointment in a month.

He doesn’t want to do surgery until I lose some weight and the stress fracture heals.

 

[lyra]

Yikes! Thankfully you know what's going on though, that's good. That must be terribly painful, I'm so sorry.

 

[junebug17]

I'm sorry @whitewave, no wonder you're in so much pain - at least you know what you're dealing with now, but I know you are suffering and I hope you heal quickly. (((Hugs)))

 

[whitewave]

@lyra @junebug17 thanks.

I am having a bit of a pity party that I am back on the sofa again— NOT where I want to be!!!

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

OA started in my hands when I was 15. Didn't bother me too much until last year when I developed a knee injury and the x-rays showed narrowing of the joint space (OA). What really helped was hitting the gym and strengthening the muscles that support the knee. When I get a flare up I avoid foods that tend to cause inflammation which helps......a little.

 

[whitewave]

OA started in my hands when I was 15. Didn't bother me too much until last year when I developed a knee injury and the x-rays showed narrowing of the joint space (OA). What really helped was hitting the gym and strengthening the muscles that support the knee. When I get a flare up I avoid foods that tend to cause inflammation which helps......a little.

Yes, I had been working with a trainer until September. Was going with a friend and she moved and I fell off.

I did get his persmisison to join the gym with the pool, so I can swim. They also have a warm water therapy pool. At least I will feel like I’m doing something.

 

[caf]

Whitewave - I have RA and OA. And fractured my tibia a few years ago. That sucks. And it hurts.
Are you in a boot or shoe? My fx was missed on the X-rays for two weeks by the ER. My orthopedic surgeon saw it immediately on the X-ray when I got in to see him. I saw it too. It was actually hard to miss. I got casted then - before I had been in a boot that helped protect it somewhat. I recall ice helped, elevating it helped, Advil helped. But it was a swollen mess. Get a chair to sit in the shower. That actually was best thing.
Hope you get to feeling better.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I'm sorry @whitewave!! Lots of healing dust to you

 

[whitewave]

@caf thanks. I just have crutches and the RICE protocol. Alternating Advil and alleve. Doing what I can.

 

[whitewave]

I'm sorry @whitewave!! Lots of healing dust to you

Thanks. I appreciate it.