what's wrong with our society these days?

[ksinger]

you forgot taxes, DF, taxes. nobody wants to pay those either.

Not true! I LOVE paying taxes. Seriously. I have less, but I don't have to walk over starving babies to get to the car....

Ok, with all seriousness... I have no trouble paying my taxes, as long as the money is being spent appropriately. I like having a good police force and fire dept. I like my library. I like good roads. I like good schools. Yeah, it sucks giving away my hard earned money, but it also sucks living in a 3rd world country with no public safety, health care, roads, etc....

Canadians feel it "sucks" to live in a country where there is anyone without health care. So do people in most of the western European countries. So do I. I also think it "sucks" to live in a country where some people go hungry. Call me crazy, but I think there shouldn't be anyone so poor that he has to sleep outside when it's so cold he can freeze to death. Not in a country this wealthy.

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Get used to it. We're currently working on repeating the Gilded Age.

 

[movie zombie]

ksinger, while i agree with Deb and Tuckins, you so succinctly stated my opinion.

MoZo

 

[ksinger]

ksinger, while i agree with Deb and Tuckins, you so succinctly stated my opinion.

MoZo

Yeah, I'm afraid it's looking pretty grim from where I stand. I'm afraid that the old pseudo-science (one of many and perennially popular amonst the more monied classes) of social Darwinism, is about to hit a new zenith any day now...

 

[movie zombie]

from the link i posted:

' "The rich are different: they are more ruthless," Sam Khater, CoreLogic's senior economist, told the Times.

So are some big, well-heeled corporations. For example, investment bank and bailout recipient Morgan Stanley walked away from five San Francisco office buildings at the end of 2009.

Real-estate company Tishman Speyer -- which also leases space to HuffPost for its Washington, D.C. office -- strategically defaulted on the biggest residential property deal ever in January 2010,.... And the Mortgage Bankers Association, lobbyists for mortgage lenders, walked away from their own headquarters in Washington, D.C. in February 2010. (The MBA did not respond to requests for comment for this story.)

"Ironically, a lot of people who feel that special obligation [to pay a mortgage] are the people in the worst position," Fredman said. "Upper-class people, they have no problem with what's going on. They have bigger considerations." '

rich and corporations have no problem walking away!

DF, i hope you read that article.

MoZo

 

[lucyandroger]

The biggest change I've seen in this country since my youth is the sense of entitlement that's developed. Young people starting out do not want a "starter" home-they want the mcmansion with the flat screen tv right away. They lease cars they could never afford to buy. Everyone wants it all even if they can't afford it.

I actually think the economic downturn has had a positive aspect-I see people being frugal again. And frugality is good for the soul.

I am 26 and I agree with you. I have recently been thinking about what has caused this sense of entitlement and here's a few things I've come up with.

- Nowadays, we don't have to wait for much. If I want to hear a song, I can dowload it on my iPhone in less than 30 seconds. No more traveling to the record/CD store or patiently waiting for it to come on the radio. If I want a book, I can instantly download it on my Kindle. Movie - netflix right on my blu ray player. Question about something - google it and instant answer. Now waiting for overnight shipping seems like forever let alone saving up for years for something.

- Also through reality tv, we have been shown how the truly wealthy live. I think the more we see that, the more we will want for ourselves. There is nothing about Paris Hilton or the real housewives of Beverly Hills or these other silly reality stars that makes them deserve what they have other than money. So maybe people feel that if they can get their hands on the money in any way, then they deserve it too.

Just some ramblings...

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="DivaDiamond007|

Finally, I agree with the poster that stated on the first page that those with money just don't understand. Not everyone has the luxury of paying for a house/car/college with cash or with a large percentage down. Sometimes debt is inevitable (sp?) and this is especially true when you've never been more than working-class.

since when was there a law saying that everybody "MUST" own a house and drive a $100K BMW?...

There isn't, obviously. Is it your position that only those who can afford to pay in cash are allowed to have these things?[/quote]

of course not,but people should only buy what they can afford. i'm just a piss off taxpayer for being stuck with paying their bills.

 

[movie zombie]

DF, read the article: we are paying for the rich and corporations to walk away from their properties as well.

MoZo

ps let the trickle down theory really work and enforce rules/laws at the higher levels where the big $ is and then let those rules/laws be enforced down the ladder. don't expect those in the trenches to behave better than those on the highest rung of the ladder.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Deb...if it make you feel any better
the dollar amount we collect from unemployment each month will make the people living in 3rd world country feel like a millionaire.

Dancing Fire- I am a real old, liberal, FDR style Democrat. I believe in jobs-EMPLOYMENT-rather than unemployment checks wherever possible. The CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) built some pretty strange roads, but people were put to work building them. The WPA (Worls Progress Administration) may have had some odd projects, but people had jobs. Americans needs jobs. Obama needs to stop being afraid of being called a liberal and to stop appeasing Wall Street!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Deb...i'd give Prez FRD a lot of credit for entering the U.S. into WW II which eventually took the country out of the great depression,and as for Prez Obama he too begun to realize that socialism will not work in this country.heck,he might run as a Republican in 2012...

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, read the article: we are paying for the rich and corporations to walk away from their properties as well.

MoZo

ps let the trickle down theory really work and enforce rules/laws at the higher levels where the big $ is and then let those rules/laws be enforced down the ladder. don't expect those in the trenches to behave better than those on the highest rung of the ladder.

i don't care if you are rich or poor people should be held responsible for paying off their debts.

 

[ksinger]

Deb...if it make you feel any better
the dollar amount we collect from unemployment each month will make the people living in 3rd world country feel like a millionaire.

Dancing Fire- I am a real old, liberal, FDR style Democrat. I believe in jobs-EMPLOYMENT-rather than unemployment checks wherever possible. The CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) built some pretty strange roads, but people were put to work building them. The WPA (Worls Progress Administration) may have had some odd projects, but people had jobs. Americans needs jobs. Obama needs to stop being afraid of being called a liberal and to stop appeasing Wall Street!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Deb...i'd give Prez FRD a lot of credit for entering the U.S. into WW II which eventually took the country out of the great depression,and as for Prez Obama he too begun to realize that socialism will not work in this country.heck,he might run as a Republican in 2012...

I suppose then, you can explain HOW entering into a war got us out of the depression...?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Deb...if it make you feel any better
the dollar amount we collect from unemployment each month will make the people living in 3rd world country feel like a millionaire.

Dancing Fire- I am a real old, liberal, FDR style Democrat. I believe in jobs-EMPLOYMENT-rather than unemployment checks wherever possible. The CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) built some pretty strange roads, but people were put to work building them. The WPA (Worls Progress Administration) may have had some odd projects, but people had jobs. Americans needs jobs. Obama needs to stop being afraid of being called a liberal and to stop appeasing Wall Street!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Deb...i'd give Prez FRD a lot of credit for entering the U.S. into WW II which eventually took the country out of the great depression,and as for Prez Obama he too begun to realize that socialism will not work in this country.heck,he might run as a Republican in 2012...

I suppose then, you can explain HOW entering into a war got us out of the depression...?

Karen...even a DUMMY like me can explain to you that WW II created millions of factory jobs for Americans.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, read the article: we are paying for the rich and corporations to walk away from their properties as well.

MoZo

ps let the trickle down theory really work and enforce rules/laws at the higher levels where the big $ is and then let those rules/laws be enforced down the ladder. don't expect those in the trenches to behave better than those on the highest rung of the ladder.

MZ...i'm not too thrill about bailing out them big banks either..

 

[ksinger]

Deb...if it make you feel any better
the dollar amount we collect from unemployment each month will make the people living in 3rd world country feel like a millionaire.

Dancing Fire- I am a real old, liberal, FDR style Democrat. I believe in jobs-EMPLOYMENT-rather than unemployment checks wherever possible. The CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) built some pretty strange roads, but people were put to work building them. The WPA (Worls Progress Administration) may have had some odd projects, but people had jobs. Americans needs jobs. Obama needs to stop being afraid of being called a liberal and to stop appeasing Wall Street!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Deb...i'd give Prez FRD a lot of credit for entering the U.S. into WW II which eventually took the country out of the great depression,and as for Prez Obama he too begun to realize that socialism will not work in this country.heck,he might run as a Republican in 2012...

I suppose then, you can explain HOW entering into a war got us out of the depression...?

Karen...even a DUMMY like me can explain to you that WW II created millions of factory jobs for Americans.

LOL! If you only really knew what you just said, DF. But you don't.

 

[movie zombie]

DF, its not just the big banks you just bailed out but big corporations walking away from real estate loans. READ THE LINK!

Mozo

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1296965256

LOL! If you only really knew what you just said, DF. But you don't. [/quote]

Ksinger..are you laughing at my english again?...

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, its not just the big banks you just bailed out but big corporations walking away from real estate loans. READ THE LINK!

Mozo

i don't care who,whom,what received bail out $$$ it was not the right thing to do.

 

[ksinger]

[quote="ksinger|1296965256

LOL! If you only really knew what you just said, DF. But you don't.

Ksinger..are you laughing at my english again?... [/quote]

No DF, not laughing at your English. But I AM still laughing.

 

[movie zombie]

DF, its not bailout money being talked about: its walking away from loans!!!!!! read the article, please. these people did everything in their power to avoid walking way.....which is more than can be said for the corporations THAT WALKED AWAY FROM REAL ESTATE LOANS THAT WERE NOT PART OF ANY BAILOUT.

MoZo

 

[ksinger]

DF, its not bailout money being talked about: its walking away from loans!!!!!! read the article, please. these people did everything in their power to avoid walking way.....which is more than can be said for the corporations THAT WALKED AWAY FROM REAL ESTATE LOANS THAT WERE NOT PART OF ANY BAILOUT.

MoZo

MoZo, I didn't read this article back when it came out, although I recall my husband talking about it to me. Supposedly it caused quite a bit of self-righteous bloviating and huffing and puffing amongst the Wall Street types when it came out. I think the whole thing is pretty hilarious most of the time. The Masters of The Universe with their knickers in a twist that the plebs finally saw the man behind the curtain, and are starting to strategically default just like THEY have been doing forever. How DARE they!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/magazine/10FOB-wwln-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Lowenstein&st=cse

And here is a fun question for homeowners: who owns your note? Who has the right to foreclose on you? Anyone? How many times has your original mortgage been tranched, bundled and sold? I know my note was sold immediately after I made it, and that was way back in '98, before all this mess was even underway....

 

[movie zombie]

ksinger, your article link is a good companion to the article link i posted some posts ago.....yes,why is it evil when the guy on the street does it but when the big corps do its just plain good business sense!?

wells fargo has ours.

MoZo