what's wrong with our society these days?

[Haven]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

You may be right that people wouldn't have behaved differently in any other era had they had access to bigger mortgages and larger credit lines. (In fact, although there's no way to know this, I absolutely agree with you that they probably would have done the exact same thing.) However, the fact that people currently have access to those things is a function of modern society. When we talk about what's wrong with society these days, we aren't just talking about individuals. The question is: Is there something wrong with a society that has systems which allow people to take out mortgages and credit lines that they just plain can't afford?

I actually don't know what I think about this, because I do feel that people are responsible for their own actions, yet it does seem "wrong" for lenders to knowingly put people into horrible financial positions by extending credit they just won't be able to handle.

No--I still don't think that personal responsibility goes out the window once people are given the opportunity to make poor decisions. Alcohol is readily available to most individuals, yet every individual doesn't go out and drive drunk, and when people do, they're held responsible for it. Nobody says "That clerk shouldn't have sold her that vodka." People need to be smart and take care of themselves and take responsibility for their own lives and lifestyles.

It's funny because there was a recent thread about pop culture in America and how certain unsavory things are EVERYWHERE! (Reality TV stars, girls in short skirts, those type of things.) My reaction was: No they're not. I don't see those things. I don't know who any of these reality stars are that people talk about on PS. There seems to be a similar idea that people are DRIVEN to consumerism by the evil media and their peers, and FORCED TO BELIEVE they must have that expensive handbag if they are to be fulfilled in life. Really? I don't see those things. I watch some television, and I read a lot of newspapers and magazines, and I listen to the radio, but the choices I make about which shows and programs and publications to view and listen to don't include anything that glamorizes spending money and keeping up with the Kardashians. (See--I know one reference. Wasn't he a football player? I do know sports.) I don't feel bad for someone who can barely get by financially yet exposes herself to all sorts of programs (and people) that glamorize consumerism, which then drives her to purchase crap she can't afford. Stop watching the television! Change the channel. Get off the diamond forum! If you really can't control your spending, don't surround yourself with temptations that will make it hurt so good.

I guess I really don't understand it. I do understand that some people are losing their homes due to horrible circumstances beyond their control, but I don't believe they are the majority. And I don't feel bad for the foreclosed who face the horrible prospect of finding affordable housing with storage enough for their Coach handbags and 47 pairs of heels.

ETA:
KSinger--I hope that whatever is happening to your hand today goes well.

 

[Prana]

Haven I agree with your post. I just wanted to add, that when my DH and I purchased our house, we were approved for a 500,000+ mortgage.



We both looked at each other in shock because we knew what we could comfortably AFFORD (meaning: what if one got sick? lost job? unplanned emergency? could we afford the mortgage on one salary?) and it wasn't $500,000.

But, that is why people are losing their homes. They financed what they couldn't afford, then their ARM went up, or they got cut back at work, or they lost their job completely etc. Their monthly payments were so high every month to begin with, that there was nothing left over to save, let alone furnish/heat their new house, or spend on life in general, let alone the NEEDS that seem to take prededence- large TV's, vacations, shoes, purses, clothing etc.

Sure, some people lose their home of 30 years after an unexpected job loss, medical expense etc, but I feel like those unfortunates are a minority.

I don't think lenders are to blame 100%. People have to be held accountable for the decisions that they make, and you need to know, as an individual that a monthly payment is too high, or the credit card interest is too high. And you as an individual need to be able to say, "you know what? Feeding my family this week is more important than the new XXX that I simply MUST have!"

And Haven- the pop-culture thread that you mentioned was my America Vs.... thread! I think that the amount of exposure to certain aspects of this culture is deifinitely regional...I don't watch TV at all, and could care less about designer whatnots (not that I don't like the occasional luxury), but I still feel bombarded at times. Not all the time, just sometimes.

 

[Haven]

Prana--I knew the thread was yours, but I couldn't remember the title. Thank you! I totally agree that it's regional, and maybe even a generational thing. When I taught high school I knew a bit more about pop culture because my students would talk about "celebrities" so I'd hear their names.

We had a similar experience to yours when we went through the preapproval process to buy a home. The crazy thing is that we took the mortgage out in my name alone for a couple reasons, and STILL they preapproved me for an insane amount of money. We ended up buying a house that cost just over half of what we *could* have mortgaged, and that is a scary thing. But, we knew better.

ETA: Prana--I'm on snow day #2 here, and yesterday DH and I watched ten minutes of some reality TV show on MTV. I can't remember what it was called, but 10 minutes of THAT was enough for me to feel bombarded and completely depressed about parts of American culture. I totally understand why you started that thread!

 

[Prana]

Prana--I knew the thread was yours, but I couldn't remember the title. Thank you! I totally agree that it's regional, and maybe even a generational thing. When I taught high school I knew a bit more about pop culture because my students would talk about "celebrities" so I'd hear their names.

We had a similar experience to yours when we went through the preapproval process to buy a home. The crazy thing is that we took the mortgage out in my name alone for a couple reasons, and STILL they preapproved me for an insane amount of money. We ended up buying a house that cost just over half of what we *could* have mortgaged, and that is a scary thing. But, we knew better.

ETA: Prana--I'm on snow day #2 here, and yesterday DH and I watched ten minutes of some reality TV show on MTV. I can't remember what it was called, but 10 minutes of THAT was enough for me to feel bombarded and completely depressed about parts of American culture. I totally understand why you started that thread!

Yes! Definitely a generational as well.

Our situations sound quite similar- Our mortgage is also only in my name, and we got lucky and financed less than half of what we were approved for. I couldn't believe it though- 1/2 a million dollars- yeah right!

And I happen to catch the reality shows when my DH is watching them- he loves them! haha. I always have to go somewhere where I'm not in earshot- people's stupidity makes me cringe, and the fact that they get paid for it? Yikes. Snooki. Now THAT is what's wrong with society.

 

[partgypsy]

I guess this all hits home because the recession hit my family hard. My father lost his business and also lost his townhome. He has debts and lives on social security, which isn't enough to rent a crummy apartment, so he moved in with my little brother.
My little brother who worked for my Dad worked the last couple years often less than the people in the kitchen to try to save the business money. He also lost his job and investment in the business. Due to under/unemployment and also legal bills to gain custody of his children he has monthly bills that exceeded what he made. He wanted to refinance to save on monthly expenses but couldn't because his house purchased 5+ years ago was now considered under water. The mother of his children never pays child support though she has a job.

He had to make a choice between trying to pay all his bills and constantly falling behind and risking losing his house so that he, my Dad and his two children would be homeless, or declaring bankruptcy. He decided to file bankruptcy.

My Dad who after liquidating everything (everything he owns is in a small bedroom) still owes about 20K. But he refuses to declare bankruptcy. He is 78 and works once a week doing the books for another restaurant and would pick up more work if someone would hire him at his age.

Yes, they made mistakes. For one my Dad should have kept his business and personal assets seperate. My brother, I understood why he had to go to court for his children, but wondered if he could have worked out a payment plan rather than put attorney's fees on credit cards. But they didn't make the mistakes of getting too big of houses or spending on consumer items. I don't know if their experiences are typical or not but they are the ones I know.

 

[Haven]

part gypsy--Your brother's and father's situations are heartbreaking, and I'm sorry if my earlier posts sound incredibly insensitive. I certainly don't mean to be insensitive to people who are hurting, and I realize now that my views on this particular issue *are* insensitive.

I think it has a lot to do with my own experiences (of course!) with people who are facing dire financial situations because they made bad choices. My own father is declaring bankruptcy right now, but his situation is entirely due to years of stupid decisions, and I don't feel bad for him. I won't let him become homeless, so if he loses his free living situation that he's currently enjoying, I'll either move him in with us or rent a place for him. (Would that be enabling him? Probably. I know that.) I have acquaintances who are in similar situations, yet still

On the other hand, I've seen how devastating it can be for people who did all the right things and still can't manage it. My FIL closed his business just a few months ago. He started it himself over 30 years ago, and it was heartbreaking for him to have to close. He's lucky in that he started with nothing (he's the child of immigrants who came here with nothing) and was frugal enough over the years that he managed to build a nice financial situation for himself. He's lucky that he owns his home outright, as well as several other buildings that he accumulated over the years. He's a good example of someone who made all the right decisions, still lost his business, but was prudent enough to set himself up so he could live through that and not lose his home. I know that he made a lot of sacrifices in order to do these things, and he worked more than anything else during his life (which my husband would tell you did nothing for his family life) but he's nearly 70 and comfortable now despite everything.

You know what? This is just a crappy situation all around. I should stop being so judgmental and start giving people a break. Sorry I'm such a jerk sometimes. Financial stuff really irritates me because I've made a huge commitment to my own financial security (because of my past) and I need to stop thinking that everyone else should have made the same commitment just because I did.

Back to the original question of what's wrong with our society today, I think we also have a lot of apathy amongst citizens. People don't really seem to care about what's going on. I think that's a problem, too.

 

[partgypsy]

I have definitely learned things from my family. My Dad never saved for retirement, any extra money went back in the business. I know myself, if I ever want to retire I need to save money FOR RETIREMENT. I also think it's heartbreaking because he worked so hard his whole life, mostly 7 day workweeks, to end up with nothing. But he is also an immigrant and is dealing with it in a much more philosophical fashion than I ever could. Even losing his home, as he said it is just a thing, it was more the embarrassment that he couldn't pay his bills. He keeps trying to pay the last of the bills but but I don't think he will be able to before he dies.

 

[fleur-de-lis]

You know what? This is just a crappy situation all around. I should stop being so judgmental and start giving people a break. Sorry I'm such a jerk sometimes. Financial stuff really irritates me because I've made a huge commitment to my own financial security (because of my past) and I need to stop thinking that everyone else should have made the same commitment just because I did.

Back to the original question of what's wrong with our society today, I think we also have a lot of apathy amongst citizens. People don't really seem to care about what's going on. I think that's a problem, too.

Well, Haven, the big screen TVs with 400+ channels in our homes do a good job of keeping us placated, entertained, and distracted.

(Nah, seriously though, I for one have enjoyed reading your comments. No matter on which side of a debate you fall, your words are always insightful and thought-provoking.)

 

[Tuckins1]

you forgot taxes, DF, taxes. nobody wants to pay those either.

Not true! I LOVE paying taxes. Seriously. I have less, but I don't have to walk over starving babies to get to the car....

Ok, with all seriousness... I have no trouble paying my taxes, as long as the money is being spent appropriately. I like having a good police force and fire dept. I like my library. I like good roads. I like good schools. Yeah, it sucks giving away my hard earned money, but it also sucks living in a 3rd world country with no public safety, health care, roads, etc....

 

[Prana]

I guess this all hits home because the recession hit my family hard. My father lost his business and also lost his townhome. He has debts and lives on social security, which isn't enough to rent a crummy apartment, so he moved in with my little brother.
My little brother who worked for my Dad worked the last couple years often less than the people in the kitchen to try to save the business money. He also lost his job and investment in the business. Due to under/unemployment and also legal bills to gain custody of his children he has monthly bills that exceeded what he made. He wanted to refinance to save on monthly expenses but couldn't because his house purchased 5+ years ago was now considered under water. The mother of his children never pays child support though she has a job.

He had to make a choice between trying to pay all his bills and constantly falling behind and risking losing his house so that he, my Dad and his two children would be homeless, or declaring bankruptcy. He decided to file bankruptcy.

My Dad who after liquidating everything (everything he owns is in a small bedroom) still owes about 20K. But he refuses to declare bankruptcy. He is 78 and works once a week doing the books for another restaurant and would pick up more work if someone would hire him at his age.

Yes, they made mistakes. For one my Dad should have kept his business and personal assets seperate. My brother, I understood why he had to go to court for his children, but wondered if he could have worked out a payment plan rather than put attorney's fees on credit cards. But they didn't make the mistakes of getting too big of houses or spending on consumer items. I don't know if their experiences are typical or not but they are the ones I know.

This is the heartbreaking, terrible situation in which I've not personally known anybody to be in. I hope that once things turn around, they are able to get back on their feet and find success.

 

[Prana]

you forgot taxes, DF, taxes. nobody wants to pay those either.

Not true! I LOVE paying taxes. Seriously. I have less, but I don't have to walk over starving babies to get to the car....

Ok, with all seriousness... I have no trouble paying my taxes, as long as the money is being spent appropriately. I like having a good police force and fire dept. I like my library. I like good roads. I like good schools. Yeah, it sucks giving away my hard earned money, but it also sucks living in a 3rd world country with no public safety, health care, roads, etc....

I was just thinking to myself the other day that I wish we got to choose where our tax dollars went. But that wouldn't work.

 

[Tuckins1]

you forgot taxes, DF, taxes. nobody wants to pay those either.

Not true! I LOVE paying taxes. Seriously. I have less, but I don't have to walk over starving babies to get to the car....

Ok, with all seriousness... I have no trouble paying my taxes, as long as the money is being spent appropriately. I like having a good police force and fire dept. I like my library. I like good roads. I like good schools. Yeah, it sucks giving away my hard earned money, but it also sucks living in a 3rd world country with no public safety, health care, roads, etc....

I was just thinking to myself the other day that I wish we got to choose where our tax dollars went. But that wouldn't work.

Yeah, I agree. I do take issue with some of the social programs and other ways that out tax dollars are being spent, but unfortunately all we can do is vote and see what happens.

 

[partgypsy]

Thanks Prana. I really didn't know if I was going to get flamed for this but had to say something been cathatric to talk about.
Though never back to normal things are much better. My brother works as an independent contractor so the more he works the more he gets paid so he tries to work as much as he can. Dad contributes to the household and also does some babysitting .

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

oh really??.. ... i don't remember reading/hearing this many people filing for bankruptcy 20-25 yrs ago.

That's because 25 years ago we didn't have (what is very likely to become systemic) unemployment running for YEARS, around 10% officially , and closer to 20% by some other more inclusive measure, AND you didn't see people sent to the poorhouse from medical bills. The top 2 reasons for bankruptcy are 1)medical bills - a whopping 62% of bankruptcies are from this one single cause, and 2)job loss - a big factor these days I would think. THEN uncontrolled spending, divorce, and unexpected disaster. So most of the prim moralizing is uncalled for.

I personally don't know too many people, even with insurance, who can handle the cost of a truly catastrophic or severe chronic illness.
And a chronic illness generally LEADS to the second - to job loss.

I have to agree with Ksinger here. As many of you already know, I work as a bankruptcy paralegal and see this every day. In my office I'd say that more people file for bankrutpcy due to credit card debt followed by medical bills and then divorce. However, many times the credit cards are run up due to long-term un/under-employment and medical bills. We certainly see our fair share of people that just have no clue how to manage money and also those that just don't care and run up credit cards that they cannot afford to pay but for the most part our clients are in crappy situations all around and really have no other option financially.

As far as the mortgage mess that the U.S. is in, I blame both sides. Banks got greedy and lent money to people that could not afford to pay it back and consumers got greedy and felt entitled to owning a home at any cost. What I don't get is why people think that just because their house has decreased in value they somehow don't have to pay the mortgage any more Houses are not piggybanks; they're a place to live nothing more, nothing less. Further, a house is only worth what someone will pay for it, not what some "appraiser" puts on a sheet of paper.

Finally, I agree with the poster that stated on the first page that those with money just don't understand. Not everyone has the luxury of paying for a house/car/college with cash or with a large percentage down. Sometimes debt is inevitable (sp?) and this is especially true when you've never been more than working-class.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="DivaDiamond007|

Finally, I agree with the poster that stated on the first page that those with money just don't understand. Not everyone has the luxury of paying for a house/car/college with cash or with a large percentage down. Sometimes debt is inevitable (sp?) and this is especially true when you've never been more than working-class.[/quote]

since when was there a law saying that everybody "MUST" own a house and drive a $100K BMW?...

 

[Haven]

You know what? This is just a crappy situation all around. I should stop being so judgmental and start giving people a break. Sorry I'm such a jerk sometimes. Financial stuff really irritates me because I've made a huge commitment to my own financial security (because of my past) and I need to stop thinking that everyone else should have made the same commitment just because I did.
Back to the original question of what's wrong with our society today, I think we also have a lot of apathy amongst citizens. People don't really seem to care about what's going on. I think that's a problem, too.

Well, Haven, the big screen TVs with 400+ channels in our homes do a good job of keeping us placated, entertained, and distracted.
(Nah, seriously though, I for one have enjoyed reading your comments. No matter on which side of a debate you fall, your words are always insightful and thought-provoking.)

Thank you, fleur-de-lis, that was very kind of you to say. I enjoy reading all of your comments, as well.
And I should admit that while DH and I only own one TV, it is a gigantic one. And it definitely keeps DH placated, entertained, and distracted!

 

[iugurl]

Finally, I agree with the poster that stated on the first page that those with money just don't understand. Not everyone has the luxury of paying for a house/car/college with cash or with a large percentage down. Sometimes debt is inevitable (sp?) and this is especially true when you've never been more than working-class.

Who said that everything needed to pay in cash? I am "working-class" and while my DH and I can pay all of our bills and have a little left over, we do not have "money."

I think some people with and without money think they deserve and are entitled to the best of everything. They deserve to go to the most expensive schools, have the best cars, the best clothes, the best jewelry, the best house, furniture etc. I want all those things too. However, I know that I cannot afford to have all of those things, therefore I don't have them. If and when we buy a house, we will have a mortgage. It would take us 20 or more years to save up that kind of money, and by then I am sure the housing prices will be double. We will be purchasing a house that we can afford, not what the bank thinks we can afford.

We have 1 car payment. My car is in terrible condition, and I would really love a new car. If my car were to break down, I would be have to purchase a used car. I refuse to have 2 car payments. I am hoping that my car lasts until after my DH's car is paid off, so I will be able to save for a few months for a down payment and then purchase a new car with a loan. I suppose I could "afford" two car payments and still have money left over, but if one of us were to get laid off, then it would be a large issue.

As you see, I am not against people who cannot afford certain things without assistance. But for those who need to purchase a new electronics, clothes, jewelry with assistance, I thing it is silly. It is their choice, but I do not feel sorry for those who abuse their CC for frivolous things and then get over their heads.

Part gypsy your fathers situation is horrible. I do feel bad for him. This case is far different from the cases that make me mad. Sometimes people who act responsibly and live within their means can still have bad things happen to them! I am angry at the people who rack up debt left and right and then act like it is not their responsibility to pay off the debts they accrued.

 

[ksinger]

Haven wrote: "KSinger--I hope that whatever is happening to your hand today goes well. "

Thanks Haven. The surgery - which was very minor to remove a "bump" that I've had on my hand for almost as long as I can remember, but that had finally gotten annoying enough to want gone - was a success. However, like Circe mentioned being on antibiotics, I'M on lortabs right now, more just to keep it from starting to hurt than anything. It doesn't really hurt much. We'll see how it goes tomorrow. My hand however, is wrapped up like a big lobster claw with my fingertips peeking out, and I can't remove the dressing or get it WET for 2 weeks. Now THAT is truly a pain.

So if in the next two days or so, I have lots of typos or reason like a brain-damaged cat, I will point everyone back to this post.

That's gonna be my excuse. Until I can find a new one...

 

[Bunny007]

I know a lot of people that carry credit card debt, student loan debt, etc... for various reasons. But nearly all of them are trying to pay down their balances, and for the most part see the error of their spendy ways. It's not that they "have no shame." People make mistakes and lenders made it easier than ever to make them. I don't think everyone can be lumped in the same category and I don't think blame can be entirely assigned to lenders, borrowers, or society in general.

Of the people I know, not a single one has their hand out, waiting for a bailout. They pay their credit card bills, slowly. I don't know anyone that's filed for bankruptcy. Honest question- does anybody here know someone that thinks they shouldn't pay their debts or doesn't pay their debts? It just hasn't been my experience at all, so I'm curious. I thought it had only become a popular notion since the government-bank bailouts, and it's only something I've read about. It seems more like a vague idea, than something that will actually come to fruition.

Frankly, I find the holier than thou attitude and the excessive eye rolling ( yes, I'm looking at you ) kind of obnoxious. I know it's a diamond forum, but I'm sure there's more than one shamelessly debt-adled PSer out there reading this thread from their ill-gotten MACbook. There has been more than one recent thread where posters have said if they have this or that, or such and such amount of money, they would pay off their credit cards/student loans. So has anyone noticed that there have been hardly any opposing opinions on this thread? Weird.

ETA: The holier, eye rolling comment was directed at everyone, of course.

ETA 2: was not directed (geez, sigh...)

 

[AGBF]

you forgot taxes, DF, taxes. nobody wants to pay those either.

Not true! I LOVE paying taxes. Seriously. I have less, but I don't have to walk over starving babies to get to the car....

Ok, with all seriousness... I have no trouble paying my taxes, as long as the money is being spent appropriately. I like having a good police force and fire dept. I like my library. I like good roads. I like good schools. Yeah, it sucks giving away my hard earned money, but it also sucks living in a 3rd world country with no public safety, health care, roads, etc....

Canadians feel it "sucks" to live in a country where there is anyone without health care. So do people in most of the western European countries. So do I. I also think it "sucks" to live in a country where some people go hungry. Call me crazy, but I think there shouldn't be anyone so poor that he has to sleep outside when it's so cold he can freeze to death. Not in a country this wealthy.

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[Dancing Fire]

you forgot taxes, DF, taxes. nobody wants to pay those either.

Not true! I LOVE paying taxes. Seriously. I have less, but I don't have to walk over starving babies to get to the car....

Ok, with all seriousness... I have no trouble paying my taxes, as long as the money is being spent appropriately. I like having a good police force and fire dept. I like my library. I like good roads. I like good schools. Yeah, it sucks giving away my hard earned money, but it also sucks living in a 3rd world country with no public safety, health care, roads, etc....

Canadians feel it "sucks" to live in a country where there is anyone without health care. So do people in most of the western European countries. So do I. I also think it "sucks" to live in a country where some people go hungry. Call me crazy, but I think there shouldn't be anyone so poor that he has to sleep outside when it's so cold he can freeze to death. Not in a country this wealthy.

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Deb...if it make you feel any better
the dollar amount we collect from unemployment each month will make the people living in 3rd world country feel like a millionaire.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Tuckins1|1296767718|

Yeah, I agree. I do take issue with some of the social programs and other ways that out tax dollars are being spent, but unfortunately all we can do is vote and see what happens.[/quote]

yeah,like spending tax dollars on our citizens instead of the illegals.

 

[lulu]

The biggest change I've seen in this country since my youth is the sense of entitlement that's developed. Young people starting out do not want a "starter" home-they want the mcmansion with the flat screen tv right away. They lease cars they could never afford to buy. Everyone wants it all even if they can't afford it.

I actually think the economic downturn has had a positive aspect-I see people being frugal again. And frugality is good for the soul.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

[quote="DivaDiamond007|

Finally, I agree with the poster that stated on the first page that those with money just don't understand. Not everyone has the luxury of paying for a house/car/college with cash or with a large percentage down. Sometimes debt is inevitable (sp?) and this is especially true when you've never been more than working-class.

since when was there a law saying that everybody "MUST" own a house and drive a $100K BMW?... [/quote]

There isn't, obviously. Is it your position that only those who can afford to pay in cash are allowed to have these things?

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Finally, I agree with the poster that stated on the first page that those with money just don't understand. Not everyone has the luxury of paying for a house/car/college with cash or with a large percentage down. Sometimes debt is inevitable (sp?) and this is especially true when you've never been more than working-class.

Who said that everything needed to pay in cash? I am "working-class" and while my DH and I can pay all of our bills and have a little left over, we do not have "money.":

I should clarify: in my post those "with money" would be those that have never had to worry about money or been faced with needing to use credit to buy necessities (i.e. household groceries). It's easy to judge those in debt when you have none yourself and when you've never been in a position to be forced into debt due to circumstances out of your control (job loss, illness).

My husband and I are similar to you and yours. We pay our bills and have a bit left over, but not much. We both work out of necessity but don't have the money to take yearly vacations, buy the latest electronics or purchase cars with cash. Our house has a mortgage and we paid off my vehicle last year (a year early!) so we could save more - which is a good thing because I got pregnant shortly thereafter with our second child.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I know a lot of people that carry credit card debt, student loan debt, etc... for various reasons. But nearly all of them are trying to pay down their balances, and for the most part see the error of their spendy ways. It's not that they "have no shame." People make mistakes and lenders made it easier than ever to make them. I don't think everyone can be lumped in the same category and I don't think blame can be entirely assigned to lenders, borrowers, or society in general.

Of the people I know, not a single one has their hand out, waiting for a bailout. They pay their credit card bills, slowly. I don't know anyone that's filed for bankruptcy. Honest question- does anybody here know someone that thinks they shouldn't pay their debts or doesn't pay their debts? It just hasn't been my experience at all, so I'm curious. I thought it had only become a popular notion since the government-bank bailouts, and it's only something I've read about. It seems more like a vague idea, than something that will actually come to fruition.

Frankly, I find the holier than thou attitude and the excessive eye rolling ( yes, I'm looking at you ) kind of obnoxious. I know it's a diamond forum, but I'm sure there's more than one shamelessly debt-adled PSer out there reading this thread from their ill-gotten MACbook. There has been more than one recent thread where posters have said if they have this or that, or such and such amount of money, they would pay off their credit cards/student loans. So has anyone noticed that there have been hardly any opposing opinions on this thread? Weird.

ETA: The holier, eye rolling comment was directed at everyone, of course.

ETA 2: was not directed (geez, sigh...)

Well, working as a bankruptcy paralegal I DO know people that think that they are somehow exempt from paying their debts, but that's the exception and not the rule, as I stated in my first post.

Also, I agree with your "holier than thou" statement and suppose that's what I was getting at with my those who "have money" comments. And I am typing this from my laptop, which was purchased even though I'm in debt up to my eyeballs (mortgage, student loans, credit cards and medical bills).

 

[AGBF]

Deb...if it make you feel any better
the dollar amount we collect from unemployment each month will make the people living in 3rd world country feel like a millionaire.

Dancing Fire- I am a real old, liberal, FDR style Democrat. I believe in jobs-EMPLOYMENT-rather than unemployment checks wherever possible. The CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) built some pretty strange roads, but people were put to work building them. The WPA (Worls Progress Administration) may have had some odd projects, but people had jobs. Americans needs jobs. Obama needs to stop being afraid of being called a liberal and to stop appeasing Wall Street!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Has anyone seen "maxed out?" There is so much judgement re: debt that people ARE ashamed. During the movie, two moms were interviewed and their kids had been targeted by credit card companies while they were in college. Rather than tell their parents and ask for help (or file for bankruptcy), both of the students committed suicide. IIRC, one of them owed $10-12K, which may seem like a lot of debt to some, but is that enough to kill oneself over?

 

[movie zombie]

and these people have a point: they tried to work with the banks.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/03/learning-to-walk-underwater-mortgages_n_818315.html?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=020411&utm_medium=email&utm_content=NewsEntry&utm_term=Daily+Brief

MoZo

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Deleted.