what's wrong with our society these days?

[lizzyann]

I also agree with Haven and NEL. Myself and my DH take responsibility for ourselves, our finances, our family's future. When you take out a mortgage, you are taking a risk. If you couldn't afford that mortgage AND live the lifestyle you want to live, then you should have found a smaller more affordable house that would allow you to live the lifestyle you want. I do agree though that there were some people that lost jobs along the way and have had to foreclose. I feel bad for those people. But to use the bailout of big corporations as an excuse for you to make bad personal money decisions is well....just an excuse. I don't agree with those bailouts either, but I didn't run out and make a bad money decision because I felt entitled due to the bailouts. I also don't have anything against the wealthy. If you work hard in this country, then you deserve every penny.

 

[slg47]

yeah, I think a lot of kids these days feel 'entitled' to fancy cars/iPhones/designer bags/etc and don't really think to budget. obviously some people have been hurt by the economy but I feel overall there is a culture of 'entitlement' and avoiding personal responsibility

 

[HollyS]

Personally, I'm in the process of eliminating everything BUT my mortgage.

The credit laws have changed so dramatically in the last year, with new ways of making you pay through the nose for fees and interest starting THIS year, that I don't want to ever carry a balance from month to month again. It is far too costly.

 

[Dancing Fire]

a lot of people don't want to pay back their debts...

they don't wanna pay their mortgage debt.
they don't wanna pay their CC debt.
they don't wanna pay their student loan debt.

I've personally always paid off my CC bills, but am reminded of the saying "There but for the grace of God go I." And FWIW, I've heard of far, far more stories of families wanting pay off the debt they incurred and struggling under grossly unfair new terms for longer than they should. When the terms have shot up to 35%, it's the usurious compound interest they're paying, not the debt. I get why decent folks "don't want to pay" THAT. I have sympathy for them, as well as anger at both the creditors who do it and the lawmakers who allow it to continue.

As much as I believe in personal responsibility and paying off one's debts, I can't and won't shill for the major CC companies who get to change the rules in the middle of the game.

and who is at fault?...
the CC companies didn't put a gun to their head and say..."you must buy that 65" HDTV" which they know they couldn't afford to pay in full when the bill is due by the end of the month.

 

[HollyS]

a lot of people don't want to pay back their debts...

they don't wanna pay their mortgage debt.
they don't wanna pay their CC debt.
they don't wanna pay their student loan debt.

I've personally always paid off my CC bills, but am reminded of the saying "There but for the grace of God go I." And FWIW, I've heard of far, far more stories of families wanting pay off the debt they incurred and struggling under grossly unfair new terms for longer than they should. When the terms have shot up to 35%, it's the usurious compound interest they're paying, not the debt. I get why decent folks "don't want to pay" THAT. I have sympathy for them, as well as anger at both the creditors who do it and the lawmakers who allow it to continue.

As much as I believe in personal responsibility and paying off one's debts, I can't and won't shill for the major CC companies who get to change the rules in the middle of the game.

and who is at fault?...
the CC companies didn't put a gun to their head and say..."you must buy that 65" HDTV" which they know they couldn't afford to pay in full when the bill is due by the end of the month.

Agreed.

Point well taken.

No one pulls the cards out of our pockets and forces us to use them.

 

[Circe]

a lot of people don't want to pay back their debts...

they don't wanna pay their mortgage debt.
they don't wanna pay their CC debt.
they don't wanna pay their student loan debt.

I've personally always paid off my CC bills, but am reminded of the saying "There but for the grace of God go I." And FWIW, I've heard of far, far more stories of families wanting pay off the debt they incurred and struggling under grossly unfair new terms for longer than they should. When the terms have shot up to 35%, it's the usurious compound interest they're paying, not the debt. I get why decent folks "don't want to pay" THAT. I have sympathy for them, as well as anger at both the creditors who do it and the lawmakers who allow it to continue.

As much as I believe in personal responsibility and paying off one's debts, I can't and won't shill for the major CC companies who get to change the rules in the middle of the game.

and who is at fault?...
the CC companies didn't put a gun to their head and say..."you must buy that 65" HDTV" which they know they couldn't afford to pay in full when the bill is due by the end of the month.

No, but I don't think all people who buy on CC plan to pay by the end of the month: if it takes 6 months, or a year, so be it.

When you add 30% to the cost of said television, it gets a little tougher.

When you add 30% to the total debt, it gets a LOT tougher, which is why usury tends to be frowned upon. In NY, for example, the rate is 16%. Going to double that after the loan has been made? Sketchy, to say the least.

P.S. - I should probably also say, I'm terrified of credit cards for exactly this reason, and pay mine off at the end of the month. But that's an exception to our culture, and not the rule.

P.P.S. - And, a further thought, just because it occurred to me that that wasn't the full truth: I haven't used credit cards without paying off the balance since I graduated. My first year in grad school, there was an error with my stipend, and I spent 4 months getting it straightened out: during those 4 months, I used the CC to cover everything from books to food, and by the time it was fixed, I was 4K in debt. I earned little enough throughout grad school that I never had enough of a cushion to pay it off. For a lot of people, that gap between security and necessity never evens out ... and if you suddenly multiply the interest exponentially, you go from carrying a balance to watching your balance grow. Doesn't that seem ... problematic ... to anybody else?

 

[lizzyann]

Circe, I agree those rates are crazy. But don't use a credit card then you know? Save for 6 months then buy it. But everyone wants immediate satisfaction these days unfortunately.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Can I just say I don't think there's anything especially wrong with our society today? People want to own their own homes and take pride in them. People want to educate themselves and strive for a better job with more responsibility. Even outside traditional education, the Internet gives people greater access to information than ever, and people seem to be taking advantage of that. I think we have a stronger sense of business and professional as well as political ethics relative to previous generations. Charitable giving tends to track strongly with DOW and S&P -- people share what they have.

I don't think people seeking debt forgiveness indicates weakening character, but goes more to 1) corporations extending more debt than they had before to "back" financial products whose demand had grown and 2) the astronomical growth in the cost of education (possibly a bubble that will burst yet?) and housing (which has since deflated).

if those people have so much PRIDE then why aren't they paying off their mortgage?...

 

[Dancing Fire]

I also agree with Haven and NEL. Myself and my DH take responsibility for ourselves, our finances, our family's future. When you take out a mortgage, you are taking a risk. If you couldn't afford that mortgage AND live the lifestyle you want to live, then you should have found a smaller more affordable house that would allow you to live the lifestyle you want. I do agree though that there were some people that lost jobs along the way and have had to foreclose. I feel bad for those people. But to use the bailout of big corporations as an excuse for you to make bad personal money decisions is well....just an excuse. I don't agree with those bailouts either, but I didn't run out and make a bad money decision because I felt entitled due to the bailouts. I also don't have anything against the wealthy. If you work hard in this country, then you deserve every penny.

 

[suchende]

Can I just say I don't think there's anything especially wrong with our society today? People want to own their own homes and take pride in them. People want to educate themselves and strive for a better job with more responsibility. Even outside traditional education, the Internet gives people greater access to information than ever, and people seem to be taking advantage of that. I think we have a stronger sense of business and professional as well as political ethics relative to previous generations. Charitable giving tends to track strongly with DOW and S&P -- people share what they have.

I don't think people seeking debt forgiveness indicates weakening character, but goes more to 1) corporations extending more debt than they had before to "back" financial products whose demand had grown and 2) the astronomical growth in the cost of education (possibly a bubble that will burst yet?) and housing (which has since deflated).

if those people have so much PRIDE then aren't they paying off their mortgage?...

Eh. There's a difference between sentiment and execution. If we are talking about societal values, I don't think we're off the rails. When it comes to being able to pay of mortgages, I think a big part of it was the irrational hope that people would be able to pay the new rate before it adjusted: that in 5 years, their income would go up enough to be able to cover the full payment, and if that didn't work out, the hope they would be able to refinance. That's a bit different than not *wanting* to pay your mortgage, or thinking you're getting away with a scam where you leave the bank holding the bag.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Can I just say I don't think there's anything especially wrong with our society today? People want to own their own homes and take pride in them. People want to educate themselves and strive for a better job with more responsibility. Even outside traditional education, the Internet gives people greater access to information than ever, and people seem to be taking advantage of that. I think we have a stronger sense of business and professional as well as political ethics relative to previous generations. Charitable giving tends to track strongly with DOW and S&P -- people share what they have.

I don't think people seeking debt forgiveness indicates weakening character, but goes more to 1) corporations extending more debt than they had before to "back" financial products whose demand had grown and 2) the astronomical growth in the cost of education (possibly a bubble that will burst yet?) and housing (which has since deflated).

if those people have so much PRIDE then aren't they paying off their mortgage?...

Eh. There's a difference between sentiment and execution. If we are talking about societal values, I don't think we're off the rails. When it comes to being able to pay of mortgages, I think a big part of it was the irrational hope that people would be able to pay the new rate before it adjusted: that in 5 years, their income would go up enough to be able to cover the full payment, and if that didn't work out, the hope they would be able to refinance. That's a bit different than not *wanting* to pay your mortgage, or thinking you're getting away with a scam where you leave the bank holding the bag.

in other words...counting their chickens before they hatch...

 

[suchende]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

 

[lizzyann]

this thread reminded me of this you tube video. I'm not trying to make this political. I just wanted to show that some people are naive is all. Personally, I feel like you create your own destiny, no matter who is president. If my DH and I have a good year, I don't say it is because so and so is in government. I say let's try to do it again next year. And if we have a bad year, I don't say it is because so and so is in government. I see what we can fix and how we can better ourselves. Just my 2 cents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

oh really??.. ... i don't remember reading/hearing this many people filing for bankruptcy 20-25 yrs ago.

 

[ksinger]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

Well now, you're absolutely correct about that. That's the sad thing. We've already DONE this. SEVERAL times in our history. Even put in some pretty good rules in place in the past to keep it from happening again - to keep banks from doing the very thing that they did, which is darn near tank our economy. Until our government and big business got together and gutted those rules under the pressure of greed. The sheer fact that we have done it before, makes the stupidity of assuming it could never happen again - the "This time is different" syndrome, that much more depressing.

And just for the record, in case there is anyone here unaware of my snark (and I don't see too many here who aren't) I'm not saying that what business is doing is right and that that is a pass for the individual to do likewise. I'm not defaulting on my mortgage any time soon, OK? I am merely pointing out that as a society, the moral rot goes all the way to the top, only there it hides its human face behind the corporation. And with corporations, we don't apply the outrage, the personal responsibility, or the penalties, equally.

So...per the video, I really do need to incorporate. Circe...pointers? Help me with my slogan, would you?

 

[Circe]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

Well now, you're absolutely correct about that. That's the sad thing. We've already DONE this. SEVERAL times in our history. Even put in some pretty good rules in place in the past to keep it from happening again - to keep banks from doing the very thing that they did, which is darn near tank our economy. Until our government and big business got together and gutted those rules under the pressure of greed. The sheer fact that we have done it before, makes the stupidity of assuming it could never happen again - the "This time is different" syndrome, that much more depressing.

And just for the record, in case there is anyone here unaware of my snark (and I don't see too many here who aren't) I'm not saying that what business is doing is right and that that is a pass for the individual to do likewise. I'm not defaulting on my mortgage any time soon, OK? I am merely pointing out that as a society, the moral rot goes all the way to the top, only there it hides its human face behind the corporation. And with corporations, we don't apply the outrage, the personal responsibility, or the penalties, equally.

So...per the video, I really do need to incorporate. Circe...pointers? Help me with my slogan, would you?

KSinger Co.: Putting the "Sin" Back in Co(ntention)

Work with me, people! I'm on antibiotics!

 

[ksinger]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

oh really??.. ... i don't remember reading/hearing this many people filing for bankruptcy 20-25 yrs ago.

That's because 25 years ago we didn't have (what is very likely to become systemic) unemployment running for YEARS, around 10% officially , and closer to 20% by some other more inclusive measure, AND you didn't see people sent to the poorhouse from medical bills. The top 2 reasons for bankruptcy are 1)medical bills - a whopping 62% of bankruptcies are from this one single cause, and 2)job loss - a big factor these days I would think. THEN uncontrolled spending, divorce, and unexpected disaster. So most of the prim moralizing is uncalled for.

I personally don't know too many people, even with insurance, who can handle the cost of a truly catastrophic or severe chronic illness.
And a chronic illness generally LEADS to the second - to job loss.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

a lot of people don't want to pay back their debts...

they don't wanna pay their mortgage debt.
they don't wanna pay their CC debt.
they don't wanna pay their student loan debt.

I've personally always paid off my CC bills, but am reminded of the saying "There but for the grace of God go I." And FWIW, I've heard of far, far more stories of families wanting pay off the debt they incurred and struggling under grossly unfair new terms for longer than they should. When the terms have shot up to 35%, it's the usurious compound interest they're paying, not the debt. I get why decent folks "don't want to pay" THAT. I have sympathy for them, as well as anger at both the creditors who do it and the lawmakers who allow it to continue.

As much as I believe in personal responsibility and paying off one's debts, I can't and won't shill for the major CC companies who get to change the rules in the middle of the game.

and who is at fault?...
the CC companies didn't put a gun to their head and say..."you must buy that 65" HDTV" which they know they couldn't afford to pay in full when the bill is due by the end of the month.

No, but I don't think all people who buy on CC plan to pay by the end of the month: if it takes 6 months, or a year, so be it.

When you add 30% to the cost of said television, it gets a little tougher.

When you add 30% to the total debt, it gets a LOT tougher, which is why usury tends to be frowned upon. In NY, for example, the rate is 16%. Going to double that after the loan has been made? Sketchy, to say the least.

P.S. - I should probably also say, I'm terrified of credit cards for exactly this reason, and pay mine off at the end of the month. But that's an exception to our culture, and not the rule.

P.P.S. - And, a further thought, just because it occurred to me that that wasn't the full truth: I haven't used credit cards without paying off the balance since I graduated. My first year in grad school, there was an error with my stipend, and I spent 4 months getting it straightened out: during those 4 months, I used the CC to cover everything from books to food, and by the time it was fixed, I was 4K in debt. I earned little enough throughout grad school that I never had enough of a cushion to pay it off. For a lot of people, that gap between security and necessity never evens out ... and if you suddenly multiply the interest exponentially, you go from carrying a balance to watching your balance grow. Doesn't that seem ... problematic ... to anybody else?

Again, I think this goes back to knowingly taking a risk. If I us my credit card to make a purchase I know I can't pay at the end of the month, my neck is on the line.

I always fear I come off as judgemental about financial matters and I don't mean to at all. I definitely understand the stress of being in a financial pinch. When I was in high school I really worried about how I was going to pay for all of my college supplies. I remember saving every penny I could from my summer job (less the $400 car + insurance and gas I bought). Once I got to college, I realized that part-time work wasn't going to cut it, so I ended up working full time my sophomore - senior year. For me, it was just a matter of doing whatever I needed to do to pay for my expenses and build a small emergency fund. Granted, I still went into a lot of debt for school itself, which I regret, but I was terrified of using a credit card for fear of not being able to pay the bill at the end of the month.

 

[partgypsy]

I also don't think people seem to realize how differently access to credit has changed. It's not necessarily that people were more moral (maybe they were) but 25 years ago people simply didn't have access to the kind of credit that even teenagers get offered nowadays. So yes, less people got in trouble with credit back then.
I graduated college about 20 years ago. I didn't have a credit card during college and don't remember ever getting a solicitation for one. After college I thought it would be a good idea to have a credit card "just in case". The first one I applied to turned me down due to "insufficient credit history". I had to build my credit before I could even get a regular credit card. Contrast this to the tables college students see when they are walking down the quad, being offered a free hat or frisbee when you sign up.

Same thing with mortgages. The checks to get a mortage were much more strict 25 years ago. There were also none of those exotic interest only or 5 years fixed, etc mortgages.

I always think it is part of the American "spirit" for people to take entrepenureal (sp!) chances to better their lives financially. So that some people "betted" on a better tomorrow for what they could get today in a house is understandable (though in retrospect not such a good idea). The same kind of motivation, many small businesses would have never happened if someone never borrowed money to fund a new business before it could support itself.

 

[iugurl]

a lot of people don't want to pay back their debts...

they don't wanna pay their mortgage debt.
they don't wanna pay their CC debt.
they don't wanna pay their student loan debt.

DF, I agree generally with the moral turpitude issue you bring up, but I understand and can distinguish why people become *particularly* upset at Credit Card creditors. Resentment and anger after underhanded maltreatment causes normal people to act in abnormal ways sometimes. I think many people who could and would pay their credit card debt back at the terms under which they signed up for the debt, yet:
(1) CC companies have and exercise the one-sided power to change terms so drastically to priorly-executed deals (say, from 5% to 29.99%), thus knowingly and deliberately creating a default-prone scenario; AND
(2) unlike your other two examples (student loan and mortgage) that the max rate for CC's is far, FAR beyond the rate defined as usurious in most jurisdictions.

I've personally always paid off my CC bills, but am reminded of the saying "There but for the grace of God go I." And FWIW, I've heard of far, far more stories of families wanting pay off the debt they incurred and struggling under grossly unfair new terms for longer than they should. When the terms have shot up to 35%, it's the usurious compound interest they're paying, not the debt. I get why decent folks "don't want to pay" THAT. I have sympathy for them, as well as anger at both the creditors who do it and the lawmakers who allow it to continue.

As much as I believe in personal responsibility and paying off one's debts, I can't and won't shill for the major CC companies who get to change the rules in the middle of the game.

CC debt is the one that makes the most mad. Most people who have large amounts of CC debt, did not get that debt from paying off necessities. Most is not from groceries, utilities, rent etc. Most are from vacations, clothes, electronics, etc. If you don't have the money, then don't buy it! Or least don't complain about getting ripped off by the credit card companies. You don't have to pay them a dime if you don't use them or pay them off completely each month. I feel badly for those who honestly had no other option but to use CC. However, these people are so few and far between compared to those who use them for non-necessitates. I think people just sign up for CC and don't even read the terms! They charge hundreds of dollars of stupid stuff, and then act wow I didn't know that I would get charged $100 for being late on my payment or that my interest rate is 25%!

 

[iugurl]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

Wow I really disagree. I think people used to treated money way, way differently. My grandpa made A LOT of money, but he squirreled away every penny he could. He had a house, a car, 2 children. He provided them with clothes, food, an college education etc. He did not buy things just to have them. He purchased what was NEEDED, very rarely what was wanted. It was not just him, everyone he knew treated money the same. People did not go out to eat several times a week, go to concerts frequently, purchase televisions for every room, take expensive vacations every year, purchase new furniture to replace "outdated" but in good condition furniture, the list goes on and on. Talk to your grandparents about how people used to spend/save money, I think you will realize that people did behave differently.

 

[suchende]

Wow I really disagree. I think people used to treated money way, way differently. My grandpa made A LOT of money, but he squirreled away every penny he could. He had a house, a car, 2 children. He provided them with clothes, food, an college education etc. He did not buy things just to have them. He purchased what was NEEDED, very rarely what was wanted. It was not just him, everyone he knew treated money the same. People did not go out to eat several times a week, go to concerts frequently, purchase televisions for every room, take expensive vacations every year, purchase new furniture to replace "outdated" but in good condition furniture, the list goes on and on. Talk to your grandparents about how people used to spend/save money, I think you will realize that people did behave differently.

Without insulting my grandparents, I'll just say they did live similarly when they were young, and made choices that didn't strengthen their financial position, though, as has been mentioned, they didn't have the easy access to credit. Furthermore, several of my older relatives fell into the same cheap-credit traps available in to them in the past decade that younger people did.

It's easy to idealize days gone by but I'm not buying it.

 

[suchende]

Also, none of my grandparents took advantage of even the free high school education available to them, much less took the initiative to get a college education. I would say the increase in people with high school diploma is something our society has to be proud of "these days."

http://www.blogforarizona.com/.a/6a00d8341bf80c53ef013488a0dc65970c-800wi

 

[iugurl]

Of course some people in the 1950's or 1970's or whatever, made bad financial decisions.I think that it is SO much more common for people today to try to compete with friends/family/coworkers. In doing so, many more people make bad financial decisions. Do you really think that the norm has not changed all? You do not think that today people have way more material things than 30 or 50 years ago? I am not "idealizing" the "olden" days. I think that some people were too tight with money. At the end of their lives, many never had splurged on things they wanted, even though they had the money! Many children used to share bedrooms until they moved out. Now I think it is much more common to have a separate bedroom for each child. Many households own 2 or 3 cars. Many teens are given cars as birthday presents. I do not think there is a right or wrong way. I do think things have changed for sure. Many things I am grateful for

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Yes, they were. They were able to do so only recently because bankers were growing a market for securitized debt, making more and bigger mortgages available to more people. I don't think people would have behaved any differently in any other era, so I don't think it's an indicator of something being wrong with our society in general, or wrong with our society "these days."

oh really??.. ... i don't remember reading/hearing this many people filing for bankruptcy 20-25 yrs ago.

Of course, if 62% of today's bankruptcies have foundations in medical bills (as KSinger pointed out), AND if 20-25 years ago Americans had better health insurance coverage (higher union membership rates, better terms to policies offered through the workplace to non-union middle class, no multi-thousand dollar deductibles and fine-print exclusions on individual policies, etc.) than today, your anecdotal recollection of fewer bankruptcies would have an explanation which doesn't involve presuming people today have poorer morals than yesteryear.

Just less of a safety net against unforeseen financial ruin than the prior generation had.




(Of course, I'm just pointing out the obvious historical consideration because it's germane to the sub-issue. It doesn't discount that some people are just dumb@sses, who took on mortgages for ten times their actual income and used equity to buy fishing boats and are now dodging whiners. )

 

[iugurl]

I found this statistic. I will give the source, as I am hoping it is a reliable one. There is a list of facts from USA Today, Wall Street Journal, CNN-Financial, and The Gallop Poll on this site, I picked out this particular fact. I am not sure which of the above sources it was initially found at.

# 63% of filers blamed credit card bills. 50% blamed mismanagement. 37% blamed pay cuts or job loss, and 28% blamed medical bills
http://www.bankruptcylawinformation.com/index.cfm?event=dspStats

Based on the fact that the numbers don't add up, people apparently could list more than one reason for bankruptcy. Here it says only 28% blame medical bills.

I am wondering for those who mention the 60-something percentage, where did you find that statistic? Also, perhaps for a portion of those who had substantial medical bills, does it mention if it is their only large debt? Perhaps a portion of those people were also over their heads in debt from CC, student loans, mortgages, car loans etc.?

 

[Imdanny]

I don't think it's entitlement. I think it's seeing that banks are raising rates and tacking on fees when they've been helped out. Over 3 million people will be served with foreclosure notices, it's not entitlement that makes them not want to pay their mortgages, it's not having enough money. I don't believe it's because they can't budget and they went on shopping sprees, it's people losing their jobs. It's also hard for people with money to understand those without. Period.

This.

We do happen to be in the worst economic recession since the Great Depression. The number of long term unemployed with no job prospects and no income is rising. The number of home foreclosures is rising. Both numbers are measured in the millions.

If it doesn't affect you or if you don't know anyone if affects, count yourself very lucky indeed.

 

[fleur-de-lis]

I found this statistic. I will give the source, as I am hoping it is a reliable one. There is a list of facts from USA Today, Wall Street Journal, CNN-Financial, and The Gallop Poll on this site, I picked out this particular fact. I am not sure which of the above sources it was initially found at.

# 63% of filers blamed credit card bills. 50% blamed mismanagement. 37% blamed pay cuts or job loss, and 28% blamed medical bills
http://www.bankruptcylawinformation.com/index.cfm?event=dspStats

Based on the fact that the numbers don't add up, people apparently could list more than one reason for bankruptcy. Here it says only 28% blame medical bills.

I am wondering for those who mention the 60-something percentage, where did you find that statistic? Also, perhaps for a portion of those who had substantial medical bills, does it mention if it is their only large debt? Perhaps a portion of those people were also over their heads in debt from CC, student loans, mortgages, car loans etc.?

IUGirl, I was referring back to KSinger; when doing a quick google search after reading your post, the following article (on CNN) based on a Harvard study came up on page 1, and I presume it's the origin of the info which KSinger mentioned earlier as it cites the 62.1% figure: http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/...ls-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH

 

[ksinger]

I found this statistic. I will give the source, as I am hoping it is a reliable one. There is a list of facts from USA Today, Wall Street Journal, CNN-Financial, and The Gallop Poll on this site, I picked out this particular fact. I am not sure which of the above sources it was initially found at.

# 63% of filers blamed credit card bills. 50% blamed mismanagement. 37% blamed pay cuts or job loss, and 28% blamed medical bills
http://www.bankruptcylawinformation.com/index.cfm?event=dspStats

Based on the fact that the numbers don't add up, people apparently could list more than one reason for bankruptcy. Here it says only 28% blame medical bills.

I am wondering for those who mention the 60-something percentage, where did you find that statistic? Also, perhaps for a portion of those who had substantial medical bills, does it mention if it is their only large debt? Perhaps a portion of those people were also over their heads in debt from CC, student loans, mortgages, car loans etc.?

IUGirl, I was referring back to KSinger; when doing a quick google search after reading your post, the following article (on CNN) based on a Harvard study came up on page 1, and I presume it's the origin of the info which KSinger mentioned earlier as it cites the 62.1% figure: http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/...ls-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH

It is, although I think I got that figure from some other place, not CNN. And I generally do better fact-checking before I post. I even thought fleetingly as I posted, "I need to check this first..." then didn't. I'm going to claim...not intellectual bankruptcy, but (speaking of medical bills) rather....I'm having my hand "fileted" at 11:30 today, and my usual attention to detail has been impacted. I likely won't be able to respond for a few days either, due to said cutting. Hopefully, I'll be able to mouse enough to read though....

Here is a critique of the original Harvard study. Not sure where the article got the 62% figure. This article states closer to half, and then presents critiques of methods/assumptions, caveats by the authors of the study, etc. Make of it what you will.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_is_the_percentage_of_total_personal.html

 

[y2kitty]

Lack of shame.