WHAT's In Your Water?

[iLander]

For years I have been concerned about your water quality. Why? Because

--the earth is a closed system. We will always have the same amount of water, but water that is polluted in China (or India, or a canal in the NE US, or wherever) eventually makes its way back to you.

--water quality testing is hit or miss. You can only test SPECIFICALLY for a known contaminant. There is no shotgun test that says "BTW, this water has these chemicals in it". Even big cities don't test for everything, it's impossible.

--as we create more chemicals, pharmaceuticals, and pesticides, they have to go somewhere. Eventually, it's the water supply. Do you really want to drink the remnants of your neighbor's psychotropic drugs, or mole cricket bait? What about a factory's chemical slurry?

So for over 25 years, the first thing we've done, whenever we've moved, is install an undersink RO system. I use the water for food rinsing, cooking, drinking, ice, baby formula, everything. It's not 100% (only distilling is 100%), but it's FAR better than those little charcoal filters. Bottled water is fine, but why buy organic produce and then rinse it with chemicals from the tap?

I wanted to point out an easy-to-install system, that also has easy, quick-change filters:

The Premier RO Pure Reverse Osmosis system is usually at Costco warehouses, but also on Amazon. It has a little light on the faucet base that goes out when the filters need changing http://www.amazon.com/Watts-Premier-RO-Pure-531411-4-Stage/dp/B0091OBMY4

Filters are cheap, 2 sets for $49. http://www.costco.com/Premier-Ro-Pure-Replacement-Filter-5-pack.product.11240334.html

Just wanted to point it out to PSers, because I read (yet another) an article about chemicals from tap water causing childhood allergies to various foods. Article: http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/pesticides-tap-water-linked-food-allergies-130240479--abc-news-health.html

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

MIL lived next to a meth house for a long time. An she lives in the country so they share a well. They got raided and that house is no longer livable but it's scary. I also live close to a huge nuclear plant, I think it's the biggest in the US? But I never thought that our water would have anything in it. I usually only drink smart water but I wonder about when I make other stuff with tap water...
This is a good thread. Got me thinking

 

[MichelleCarmen]

If you drink bottled water, you're drinking from bottles that may have BPA. We drink Earth H20 water brand which is packaged with BPA-free bottles.

We have a reverse osmosis system but haven't installed it in our house. We did install it in all our previous homes. I will say that they work great but are a pain to install!

 

[iLander]

MIL lived next to a meth house for a long time. An she lives in the country so they share a well. They got raided and that house is no longer livable but it's scary. I also live close to a huge nuclear plant, I think it's the biggest in the US? But I never thought that our water would have anything in it. I usually only drink smart water but I wonder about when I make other stuff with tap water...
This is a good thread. Got me thinking

Your water has tons of stuff in it, everyone's does. And it's getting worse by the year as the planet gets more crowded.

Bottled water is a start, but think about cooking your pasta, washing your lettuce, making soup . . .

Tell your mom to be careful, I read an article about a couple that unknowingly bought a foreclosed meth house and they got so sick just from residual fumes that they had to move out. It took months for them to figure it out, until a neighbor finally said something. Maybe an RO system for mom for Xmas?

 

[iLander]

If you drink bottled water, you're drinking from bottles that may have BPA. We drink Earth H20 water brand which is packaged with BPA-free bottles.

We have a reverse osmosis system but haven't installed it in our house. We did install it in all our previous homes. I will say that they work great but are a pain to install!

I think my DH hates all plumbing, RO included, but people more sensible than me usually hire a handyman. It's not supposed to require an official plumber, but it is hard reaching around under the sink.

Where's a "bleah!" emotie?

 

[GabeLewis]

Lurker here and I just wanted to add a few comments. First off if you are on a municipal water supply many publish how they are tested and what the results are compared to drinking water standards, you can probably find it on their website. Drinking water standards for your tap water are actually more stringent than those for bottled water as well, so aside from BPA bottled water is not necessarily better than tap water. Although there are drinking water standards they only cover specific chemicals, and there can (potentially) be very low levels of other chemicals in drinking water, things like flushed pharmaceuticals can be very persistent in water.

Using a RO system is probably your best bet if you are concerned about your tap water, although even that may not be 100% effective for everything. If you are using a system with a filter of some kind make sure to follow the guidelines for changing it, you don't want it to become less effective or stay so long that bacteria start to grow on the filter.

Bottom line is if you live in the US your water is most likely perfectly safe to drink, and there is usually public information out there if you want to check. Additional filtering at home (especially with a RO system) can go above and beyond, but make sure to follow the instructions!

 

[soocool]

I have well water and we have a water filtration system on the incoming water line. Best tasting water ever.

 

[perry]

Ilander:

In general yours is a valid concern. But, I would like to caution you not to over-react and fall for a lot of marketing half truths as well.

First off, you are right that the world is a closed system; and that there is (and always has been) a lot of "stuff" in the water used for drinking and cooking.

The vast majority of "stuff" is at very low levels and a normal body easily filters it out (or tolerates it).

The real concerns of the modern world are various chemicals that do not quickly break down. The "stuff" that seeps into our groundwater and is chemically stable such that it will still be there hundreds if not thousands of years from now. In this regards chemicals are far worse than most man made radiological compounds because radiological compounds have half lives and decay away (and only a few would be hazardous after a decade or two).

People with certain medical issues or sensitivities may also need to pay attention.

While all that sounds pretty bad: The good thing is that the United States in known worldwide for having really good clean municipal drinking water standards - and that tap water is in the vast majority of cases actually long term safe for people.

However, tap water is also usually chlorinated to keep bacteria from growing in the system (which would be a much worse health disaster); and there can be other "taste" issues.

I should also point out that drinking water from new plastic bottles also is coming under scrutiny because of the trace chemicals from the plastic. Older - or reusable bottles usually leach out much of the leachable trace chemicals in the first several uses.

Now here is where the marketing hype comes in:

I am working largely from memory here - but I can dig up the exact information later this week if you want it.

Every water filter/purification system sold in the US claims to be NSF certified. That is true; BUT... (and its a really big but). The NSF actually has 3 different certifications for water filtration.

Filtering out bad tasting stuff is the first certification (I believe NSF Standard 42): These filters remove the chlorine and other things that generally make the water taste bad. They are also not very expensive either. These systems are not certified to remove other problem chemicals or bugs.

The vast majority of water "purification" filters are only certified to this first standard - Taste.

The second standard certifies that the filter/system actually removes a lot of other chemicals for health effects (I believe NSF Standard 53). Reverse Osmosis (RO) normally falls into this and they pair it with a Taste certified carbon filter (NSF 42) up front.

However, the dirty secret about RO is that the RO membranes typically stop working right between 2 and 4 months depending on your local water - unless they are chemically cleaned. The RO sales literature is full of claims about how RO is the technology of choice for large industrial systems. That is true (and I used to run one of those) - but those large industrial systems clean the membranes every 2-4 months in order to keep them working. At my current job (Nuclear Power Plant) we have a several hundred thousand gallon a day RO system - and they clean membranes about every 3 months. Chemical cleaning of the membranes is not a household job (and you just can't flush the effluent down the drain - it has to be neutralized and treated).

A decade or so back I had the opportunity to test a series of home RO systems less than 2 years old - and only about 10% of them were working from the sense that the RO membranes were removing the proper level of impurities (and that was among the newer systems). In fact, about 80% of the RO membranes were not working at all (Note that the NSF certification is for new systems - not systems that have been running for a number of months). Also, membrane replacement is very expensive - and homeowners do not have the equipment needed to test how well the membranes are working (neither do most of the consumer water treatment system companies selling these systems).

On the other hand, since the RO systems are paired with a "Taste" carbon filter homeowners can still taste how well their RO system is working. Might I suggest that you pass on the RO and just by a carbon filter for taste.... unless.... you want the third certification.

Certification three (I believe NSF 55) is for "Water Purifiers". Systems that remove so much "stuff" and block all kinds of "stuff" for health and other effects that they can be called a "Water Purifier." About 7 years ago the only consumer system on the market was the Amway water treatment system. I have no idea if any other companies have certified their systems to that level. Now, Amway then took it up another notch since and added UV to kill bugs and got the certification for that (NSF 55B). Again, there may be other certified systems out there.

So the key to shopping for water purification is to ask: 1) do I really need it in my area? 2) What is the system certified for: Taste (NSF 42), Some chemical removal (NSF 53) or purification (NSF 55). 3) If buying a RO system - is the company telling you that they need to chemically clean the membranes several times a year or not (and offer that service); or are they selling you hype (I note there is a lot of profit in a lot of the RO water treatment systems)

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[iLander]

Lurker here and I just wanted to add a few comments. First off if you are on a municipal water supply many publish how they are tested and what the results are compared to drinking water standards, you can probably find it on their website. Drinking water standards for your tap water are actually more stringent than those for bottled water as well, so aside from BPA bottled water is not necessarily better than tap water. Although there are drinking water standards they only cover specific chemicals, and there can (potentially) be very low levels of other chemicals in drinking water, things like flushed pharmaceuticals can be very persistent in water.

Using a RO system is probably your best bet if you are concerned about your tap water, although even that may not be 100% effective for everything. If you are using a system with a filter of some kind make sure to follow the guidelines for changing it, you don't want it to become less effective or stay so long that bacteria start to grow on the filter.

Bottom line is if you live in the US your water is most likely perfectly safe to drink, and there is usually public information out there if you want to check. Additional filtering at home (especially with a RO system) can go above and beyond, but make sure to follow the instructions!

Thanks for coming on and posting! I agree with everything you said; the tests are only for specific chemicals (they've invented so many new chemicals lately, what are missing?), flushed pharmaceuticals scare me, and an unchanged filter is a bacteria breeding ground. The system I'm recommending has an indicator late that tells you when it's time to change.

 

[iLander]

Hi Perry,

The particular system that I'm recommending is tested to a new standard, NSF 58, specifically designed for home-use RO.

NSF/ANSI Standard 58: Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Treatment Systems
Overview: This standard was developed for point-of-use (POU) reverse osmosis (RO) treatment systems. These systems typically consist of a pre-filter, RO membrane, and post-filter. Standard 58 includes contaminant reduction claims commonly treated using RO, including fluoride, hexavalent and trivalent chromium, total dissolved solids, nitrates, etc. that may be present in public or private drinking water.

I wanted to say something to the ladies here because many are young and don't realize the importance of healthy water. The article that I linked to mentioned research that indicated a type of chlorine linked to childhood allergies. Even if they choose a filter that only removes chlorines, then my job here is done.

I understand about membranes in RO systems, but honestly, there doesn't seem to be an easy, low cost home system. If you know of one, please let me know.

And I think we should have something. You said "Chemical cleaning of the membranes is not a household job (and you just can't flush the effluent down the drain - it has to be neutralized and treated)." If our water is so safe, then why are you able to filter out something that is so nasty it has to be neutralized and treated? If it wasn't filtered, wouldn't it be coming out of the tap and going straight into our bodies?

 

[HopeDream]

Currently my job is administrative support for people in the drinking water industry.

Here are some useful links:

US drinking water legislation: http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/index.cfm

AWWA (The folks who maintain your water) http://www.awwa.org/

Drinking water standards in my area - BC Canada: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/water-eau/2012-sum_guide-res_recom/index-eng.php
environmental water standards: http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/wq_guidelines.html#approved

Re Chlorine:
Once a filtration plant filters and disinfects your water it is clean and safe to drink, but the water still has to travel through a whole series of pipes and pumps to get to you. These pipes and pumps could be old or cracked or otherwise unsanitary, so treatment plants must maintain a residual level of chlorine in the water -just in case- so that the water is still safe to drink when it reaches your tap.

A note about home filtration systems - the filters/filter media of home filtration systems can become the breeding place of tons of bacteria if you don't change your filters regularly ( and people don't because the filters are expensive) so the "extra filtration" can actually be adding extra bacteria to your water.

Your municiplaity will test your water for bacterial levels and turbidity somewhere between once every 5 min and once an hour - How often do you check your home filter system for bacteria and turbidity levels? Most people never do. (Remember that 6 month old Brita filter?...Ewww!)

Special home filtration systems are not necessary, but if they make you happy and feel healthy, please maintain them properly!!!!

 

[perry]

iLander:

NSF 58 is not really newer than NSF 55; its just different as you will see.

For clarification of the standard numbers below - in the past there were a large number of standards organizations. There has been a concerted effort to bring all standards under one organization - so most current standards share two designations. American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and the original parent organization (in this case National Sanitation Foundation, otherwise known as NSF)

So lets go to the source - the NSF and see the history and what the different certifications do: This following information is from the "Standards Store" web section

ANSI/NSF 42 "Drinking Water Treatment Units - Aesthetic Effects" First issued in 2000. Last revised in 2011. If you wish a copy it will cost you $165 for the current revision (and $220 for any of the older revisions).

ANSI/NSF 53 "Drinking water treatment units - Health effects" First issued in 2000 . Last revised 2011. Pricing $165 for current and $220 for older versions.

ANSI/ NSF 55 "Ultraviolet Microbiological Water Treatment Systems" First issued in 2000. Last revised 2012. Pricing $165 for current and $220 for older versions.

ANSI/ NSF 58 "Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Treatment Systems" First issued 2001. Last revised 2012. Pricing $165 for current and $220 for older versions.

In all cases there are multiple revisions between the first issue date and the current revision date. These standards are all updated every couple of years by an industry committee consisting largely of representatives from the manufacturers and major industrial users

Thus, it is incorrect to suggest that NSF 58 is actually newer (which implies somehow better)

What is the practical difference between these standards: Please go to the following web page to see what each standard does

http://www.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/

Reduction Claims for Drinking Water Treatment Units - Aesthetic Effects (NSF 42): List 9 items that the filter must do. This is commonly referred to the "Taste and Clarity" standard.

Reduction Claims for Drinking Water Treatment Units - Health Effects (NSF 53): By my count there are 60 things the filters must reduce or eliminate. Note that the NSF was willing to label this as "Health Effects" (but did not apply the same label to RO units)

Reduction Claims for Ultraviolet Microbiological Water Treatment Systems (NSF 55): There are two levels of performance for killing bacteria and viruses. Thus certified systems will carry a 55A or 55B rating. 55A is more stringent than 55B (55A systems are designed to kill bacteria and viruses in otherwise untreated water. 55B is designed for use with water that is otherwise generally rated safe for human consumption).

Reduction Claims for Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Treatment Systems (NSF 5: By my count there are 53 things a RO unit must reduce or eliminate. It appears that the vast majority of these items are covered under NSF 53 although I have not done an exact count.

By the way - you can use this web page to search for units that have been certified to any of these standards.

It is my understanding that any system that is certified to the combined NSF standards of 42, 53, and 55 can legally claim to be a "Water Purifier", and that other systems can only claim to filter water; although I cannot find the reference to that right now.

I will post a part two later.

 

[perry]

iLander:

Part 2

First - I would like to second HopeDream's comment about bacteria growth in home water treatment systems. This is indeed a problem with the cheaper systems on the market. The more expensive systems tend to include various methods of preventing or controlling such problems.

To answer your question on a good cheap RO system. I don't believe it exists. Not only that - I stand by my previous comments concerning the need to routinely clean the RO membranes for them to work properly.

Please do a Google (or equivalent) search on: Reverse Osmosis Membrane Cleaning

Here is a typical site that discusses the issue: http://www.reskem.com/pages/membrane-cleaning.php

This site says that a typical RO system should be cleaned twice a year.

Here is another site with more complete information: http://www.membranes.com/docs/papers/02_cleaning.pdf

The second site says 3-12 months depending on what is in your water - and then discusses that different cleaning chemicals will need to be used for different water constituents.

I personally believe that applying RO to a home water treatment system is largely a scam because no one is cleaning the membranes often enough to make them last more than several months (perhaps longer if you have really clean water or a good pre-treatment). You are paying a lot of money for only short term performance.

My other comment is in your comment about how the RO system you started this post with has an alarm to tell you when to change the filter. That alarm is not based on the quality of water the unit puts out. The cost of such sensor technology is far higher than the cost of home filtration water treatment systems. What that alarm is based on is either a simple timer (say every 6 months) or possibly a flow meter (every N00 gallons); or a combination of the two. What is the quality of water that the system is producing when the alarm goes off is totally unknown as it is largely dependent on how bad your water is (are the filters used up, is the RO membrane plugged, etc)

Somewhere over 15 years ago I did similar research and purchased an Amway water filtration system - which when I called my State DNR and Consumer Protection divisions they raved about how good it was. I have not been disappointed; and it has cost me about $90 per year to change filters (it also included a timer and flow meter with an alarm on when to change the cartridge). Another key benefit is that the replacement cartridges have always been available (although they are now discontinuing them for the older system that I have); and I have seen many of my friends with other systems find themselves not able to get replacement filters after a few years. I was also able to get a replacement faucet kit when mine died after a decade. About a decade ago Amway came out with a water filter with UV light to kill viruses and bacteria (their current model - Certified to NSF 42, 53, 55B - a Water Purifier); but, this requires 120 V power (plug in) for the UV. They also have a non UV version as well (Certified to NSF 42, 53) which does not require power:

Non UV option: Current Catalog price is $615.40 (and you get one of three faucet options) Replacement Cartridge is $101.45

UV option: Current catalog price is $998 with your choice of faucet kits. Replacement cartridges are $203.95

Cartridges are rated for 1320 gallons or 1 year.

I personally believe these are the best systems on the market - both on what they do for their cost - and in the fact that you will be able to get replacement cartridges and parts for at least a decade (and likely longer). Total cost of ownership is low over the years is low.

Your local Amway distributor may be willing to reduce the cost.