What Would You Do?

[princesss]

I'm in a situation that's making me uncomfortable and I really don't know what to do.

A friend of mine (call her T) has been talking about a guy she works with for a little while. (She's casually seeing somebody else, but they're not exclusive. Relevant to the story towards the end.) This guy (call him J) has showed some strong interest in my friend. T is not used to guys showing much interest, and I think she's as excited by the fact that J seems to like her as she is by maybe liking him.

The thing is, J is married. He says he wants a divorce, but the facts are as follows: He is married. He has 3 kids. He still lives in the same house as his wife.

It's frustrating to me that T does not see this as clearly as I do. No matter what the reasoning or the "actual" situation at home (maybe they're unhappy, maybe only he's unhappy, maybe he just likes getting tail on the side), he's married, that should be it. I think by even entertaining this flirtation, she's showing a lot of disrespect for herself, the guy's family, and really, marriage as a concept. And him...well, don't get me started on him.

I try to avoid the topic, and I know she avoids talking to me about it, but I feel like I'm contributing to the situation by not saying anything other than pointing out that the way he paints the picture isn't necessarily exactly the way things are. (She has a bad habit of falling for lines and taking them as truth.)

Now, she is far more interested in the guy she's already kind of seeing, but this guy crops up about once or twice a month.

To make things more complicated, this girl's parents met while married to other people, so I feel like maybe her line on where things are appropriate is a little different than mine is.

What would you do? Would you sit her down and tell her your views? Bite your tongue because it's not your life? Only share your opinion if/when asked?

 

[TravelingGal]

Her life to live and botch up, if that''s the road she takes.

I''ve never met anyone in gave in to the naysayers early on in the game, and I doubt your friend would be any different. One person''s opinion is not strong enough to stop a runaway train.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/2/2009 3:49:46 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Her life to live and botch up, if that''s the road she takes.

Yep, also, as if/when the relationship fails, she may feel more ashamed than every because you warned her that about the guy.

How often do you and her talk? If you absolutely cannot handle listening to her talk about all her guy issues, tell her you don''t want to hear about it. That way you''ll be less inclined to finally reach your limit and go full-blown telling her how you feel.

 

[princesss]

Date: 5/2/2009 3:56:57 PM
Author: MC

Date: 5/2/2009 3:49:46 PM

Author: TravelingGal

Her life to live and botch up, if that''s the road she takes.

Yep, also, as if/when the relationship fails, she may feel more ashamed than every because you warned her that about the guy.


How often do you and her talk? If you absolutely cannot handle listening to her talk about all her guy issues, tell her you don''t want to hear about it. That way you''ll be less inclined to finally reach your limit and go full-blown telling her how you feel.

I see her a few times a week. When she first brought up the situation, I brought up some of my doubts (as I would with any guy that seemed like he was lying), but it''s been a while since this started. Maybe 2 - 2.5 months? She brought it up a lot in the beginning, but I haven''t seen her for more than a few minutes at a time for a few weeks, so I didn''t know how much has been going on until we talked today.

It''s hard, because I''m the type that wants my friends to try to point this stuff out to me, so I never know if I should do that for other people or not.

 

[LGK]

I think the situation kinda depends on how close you are to her. A super close best friend, I''d probably just be politely honest with her on my opinion, and then be quiet about it after that and, finally, supportive if she ends up in a mess. I found myself in a situation with one of my closest friends when we were 20ish where I knew she was making a horrible mistake marrying someone, and after some thought I just told her what I felt- that her fiance gave me the willies and I was worried about her safety. She never held it against me- but she made her own mistakes and is now divorced. She told me a few years ago that she really, really loved that I cared enough to tell her the truth about how I felt, and that in fact I was the only one of her friends who did. And I *definitely* didn''t say "told ya so!"

A not as close friend? I''d just bite my tongue.

 

[princesss]

Date: 5/2/2009 4:18:01 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
I think the situation kinda depends on how close you are to her. A super close best friend, I''d probably just be politely honest with her on my opinion, and then be quiet about it after that and, finally, supportive if she ends up in a mess. I found myself in a situation with one of my closest friends when we were 20ish where I knew she was making a horrible mistake marrying someone, and after some thought I just told her what I felt- that her fiance gave me the willies and I was worried about her safety. She never held it against me- but she made her own mistakes and is now divorced. She told me a few years ago that she really, really loved that I cared enough to tell her the truth about how I felt, and that in fact I was the only one of her friends who did. And I *definitely* didn''t say ''told ya so!''


A not as close friend? I''d just bite my tongue.

Thanks. I think I''d classify her as a "Not as close friend" so that seems to help answer this.

Thanks for the opinions. It''s a weird feeling, watching all of this. I really appreciate the perspectives so far and I hope more will come.

 

[bee*]

Ugh I know it''s her life to botch up but I''m not sure if I couldn''t say anything. If she''s talking about him, I''d probably just say it to her that he''s married and until he actually makes actions to move out of the home that he shares with his wife, try not to do anything. If she goes ahead and does it anyway, as TGal said, it''s her life to botch up.

 

[Linda W]

Uh.. well... I will be the fly in the ointment.

A loooooong time ago, I was in the same situation with a very good friend of mine. I also told her that she was making the biggest mistake of her life and she would end up being hurt.

She didn''t listen. He did end up divorcing his wife. They were soul mates and have been happily married for 30 years. End of my story. I do know that this is an unusual case and it happens far and few between.

 

[princesss]

Date: 5/2/2009 5:39:33 PM
Author: Linda W
Uh.. well... I will be the fly in the ointment.


A loooooong time ago, I was in the same situation with a very good friend of mine. I also told her that she was making the biggest mistake of her life and she would end up being hurt.


She didn''t listen. He did end up divorcing his wife. They were soul mates and have been happily married for 30 years. End of my story. I do know that this is an unusual case and it happens far and few between.

Yeah, that''s what happened to her parents. It''s such a weird situation. *Such* a weird situation (the one I''m in now, not her parents'' marriage).

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 5/2/2009 3:49:46 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Her life to live and botch up, if that''s the road she takes.

I''ve never met anyone in gave in to the naysayers early on in the game, and I doubt your friend would be any different. One person''s opinion is not strong enough to stop a runaway train.

I agree with TGal here. I''m sure its tough watching a friend do this and I 100% agree with you that dating someone who is married is baaaaddddd news but unless she asks you your opinion, door is closed. Given her parents, I can see how that would scew her sense of whats right and wrong in this type of case.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Well, this is certainly complicated.

I think your friend is fooling herself if she thinks this man leaving his wife is a sure thing. I''m sure you''ve heard that married men rarely leave their wives for the "other woman". I''m sure, in some case it happens...but, it''s far less common.

However, it''s her life. I know it''s hard to watch your friend make foolish mistakes--or, things you think are foolish. But, as I''ve been wisely told, it''s her mistake to make.

All you can really do is be a good friend to her -- whatever that means to you. If that means telling her honestly that you think this is a long shot and that she should really think twice before getting involved...then that''s what you need to do. If you think that biting your tongue is the right thing to do...then follow that. If you think blunt honesty (the whole 4th paragraph) is the way to go, then go for it.

I want to point out that each friendship is different...each one has different dynamics, and everyone reacts differently to hearing things they''d rather not. You know T the best, and you know how she''ll handle your advice...solicated or not. So please, consider that. Some people would rather try and fail...others would rather be talked off the edge. Consider her and how she is when deciding how to proceed.

And...as far as this other guy, the "flake"...well, he is who he is. It''s always really important to "lay the ground work" for a relationship, and set the boundries from the start when it concerns what you''ll accept vs. what you won''t. Obviously your friend has allowed his to flake out on her, and still agreed to continue the relationship...that was her "mistake"....if broken plans bother her, she should have spoken up from jump street instead of allowing for it to become an ongoing issue. IMO, there isn''t much she can do now, because he''s already comfortable doing what he is, treating her how he does.

 

[qtiekiki]

If I were in your situation, I''ll just let her make her own choice. Seems like you already voiced your opinions, and I think repeating it might have a negative effect on your friend.

 

[cnspotts]

I have to agree with others that she is an adult and its her journey even if others can easily see the problems that can/might arise. Plus she does have an intimate relationship with the knowledge of her parents story as a success, but as we know more than likely she will not have to same outcome.

For you, the best you can do is be supportive without alienating her for her choices. Best not to judge. On the other hand tossing ideas out about the situation for her to mull over is another thing, sometimes being so close to something one is blinded by it and she might not see some obvious things about this guy, and his situation.

Maybe steer her towards the less than available guy by getting her to have a conversation with him about whats going on with them, what level are they at and where is it going? Then she''ll have a better idea of that situation and can either go with it or move along to something better. It seems pretty casual.

Tying herself up with either guy seems like a waste of time if she''s interested in being with someone that actually wants to be with her and is available for that.

 

[princesss]

Thanks everybody.

I''ve been mulling over the advice given here and decided the best thing to do for this situation is...nothing. Her life, her choices. If she outright asks my opinion, I will give it, but otherwise I will keep mum. She''s a grown up, and part of growing up is dealing with the consequences of our actions (and learning to let other people make their own choices). I can be her friend even if I don''t agree with her choices.

 

[crown1]

i see this differently. i think she can do what she wants but you don''t need to hear about it. if it were me i would simply wait until she brought it up again and then tell her my feelings. those would be, i have told you i don''t approve of adultery but it is not my place to try to tell you what to do. i would appreciate it if you would just not talk to me about this guy and your relationship. she is free to do as she wishes but you don''t have to give her a sign of approval or hear about the guy. she is a big girl and can handle the situation on her own. if it really is a case of "soul mate" he should take care of extricating himself from his marriage before he gets others involved. since she is not that close i wonder why she would confide such intimate information?

 

[steph72276]

If I were in your situation, if she brings it up I would say something like "ya know, I really don't feel comfortable talking about this guy with you until his divorce proceedings are actually taking place." That way she will know your stance and then she shouldn't bring it up again.

ETA: Crown, we were posting at the same time....ditto!

 

[purrfectpear]

It''s only adultery for the one who is married. ''jus sayin''

 

[princesss]

Date: 5/2/2009 7:15:53 PM
Author: steph72276
If I were in your situation, if she brings it up I would say something like ''ya know, I really don''t feel comfortable talking about this guy with you until his divorce proceedings are actually taking place.'' That way she will know your stance and then she shouldn''t bring it up again.


ETA: Crown, we were posting at the same time....ditto!

I think she''s picked up on the fact that I don''t like hearing about him/the situation. There are 3 of us that hang out all the time, and she talks about him almost exclusively to our other friend. So it''s rare that she brings him up, which is why it brought so many questions up today. I had too much time to think about it. It does make me very uncomfortable, so if she brings him up again, I may ask her to not mention it to me. Thank you and crown for that perspective. It''s nice to know that other people wouldn''t want to hear about it. I guess I don''t know where I''m "allowed" to draw the line on supporting my friend but staying within my comfort zone on this.

 

[steph72276]

ETA...nevermind, not worth it

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 5/2/2009 7:15:34 PM
Author: crown1
i see this differently. i think she can do what she wants but you don''t need to hear about it. if it were me i would simply wait until she brought it up again and then tell her my feelings. those would be, i have told you i don''t approve of adultery but it is not my place to try to tell you what to do. i would appreciate it if you would just not talk to me about this guy and your relationship. she is free to do as she wishes but you don''t have to give her a sign of approval or hear about the guy. she is a big girl and can handle the situation on her own. if it really is a case of ''soul mate'' he should take care of extricating himself from his marriage before he gets others involved. since she is not that close i wonder why she would confide such intimate information?

BIG DITTO!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 5/2/2009 7:22:43 PM
Author: purrfectpear
It''s only adultery for the one who is married. ''jus sayin''

Uh, don''t think so. Takes two.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/2/2009 9:36:02 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 5/2/2009 7:22:43 PM
Author: purrfectpear
It''s only adultery for the one who is married. ''jus sayin''

Uh, don''t think so. Takes two.

Actually it is diamondseeker. Just a technicality, but only the married person is actually commiting adultery. If it is two married people, they are commiting separate acts of adultery.

The single woman who is sleeping with a married man is simply a (fill in the blank here.)

 

[crown1]

Date: 5/2/2009 9:49:57 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 5/2/2009 9:36:02 PM

Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 5/2/2009 7:22:43 PM

Author: purrfectpear

It's only adultery for the one who is married. 'jus sayin'

Uh, don't think so. Takes two.

Actually it is diamondseeker. Just a technicality, but only the married person is actually commiting adultery. If it is two married people, they are commiting separate acts of adultery.


The single woman who is sleeping with a married man is simply a (fill in the blank here.)

question: assuming there is an affair going on in a similar situation, i know only the man is an adulterer but are both the man and woman involved in an adulterous affair?

 

[Shoopy]

Well, I was T at one point and I can tell you from experience that when my friends wanted to sit down and chat with me about the situation...it only made me resent them for treating me like a...well, I don''t think I can post the word on PS.

The thing is that going after a man that is not available is a huge sign of insecurity. That''s why those relationships last for so long. The girl is extremely insecure and the scumbag plays on these insecurites.

The only thing that will snap her out of it is for her to realize that she deserves better. There''s nothing you can say that will make her get there faster. Just be there to help her pick up the pieces when she does snap out of it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 5/2/2009 10:40:33 PM
Author: crown1

Date: 5/2/2009 9:49:57 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 5/2/2009 9:36:02 PM

Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 5/2/2009 7:22:43 PM

Author: purrfectpear

It''s only adultery for the one who is married. ''jus sayin''

Uh, don''t think so. Takes two.

Actually it is diamondseeker. Just a technicality, but only the married person is actually commiting adultery. If it is two married people, they are commiting separate acts of adultery.


The single woman who is sleeping with a married man is simply a (fill in the blank here.)

question: assuming there is an affair going on in a similar situation, i know only the man is an adulterer but are both the man and woman involved in an adulterous affair?

Apparently it depends on where you are if dictionary.com is correct:

"...Note: It is adultery on the part of the married wrongdoer. The word has also been used to characterize the act of an unmarried participator, the other being married. In the United States the definition varies with the local statutes."

 

[princesss]

Date: 5/2/2009 10:55:39 PM
Author: fieryred33143
Well, I was T at one point and I can tell you from experience that when my friends wanted to sit down and chat with me about the situation...it only made me resent them for treating me like a...well, I don''t think I can post the word on PS.


The thing is that going after a man that is not available is a huge sign of insecurity. That''s why those relationships last for so long. The girl is extremely insecure and the scumbag plays on these insecurites.


The only thing that will snap her out of it is for her to realize that she deserves better. There''s nothing you can say that will make her get there faster. Just be there to help her pick up the pieces when she does snap out of it.

Thanks for posting this perspective. I definitely wouldn''t want to make her feel like....well, anything that''s not postable on PS! I hadn''t even thought about how insecurities might play into this.

 

[ckrickett]

I agree with keeping mum, and her life her choices.... but the guy has kids. I mean if it was just a married man thats bad enough, but when kids (three of them) are brought into the picture doesn't that change things, just alittle?

I mean, if he was a fresh single dad just divorced, it would be different. If she was looking for something long term or serious, and they were separated. But if he lives with his wife and kids, thats different.
I dunno, I just think when kids come into an equation like that the decision is already made

 

[Kelli]

I would only give advice if asked for it, or if she''s opening up to you and you genuinely feel you could help her by giving her a different viewpoint. But really, it''s going to be her choice how far she takes it with this guy. I feel the same way as you. Married = off limits, no matter what he says. But not everyone feels the same way about that.