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Upset...vent (long)

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I was at an amusement/water park the other day, and there was a sign in the changing room saying that it was illegal to take any photos in the changing room. It referenced regular cameras, cell phones and video cameras.

All that I could think was how sad it is that things have come to this.
 
Date: 8/4/2008 12:30:17 PM
Author: HollyS
I''m sorry he was so rude that you actually felt threatened or harrassed. It''s tough being in a foreign country, not fluent in the language, and not so aware of local or national customs -- which can be a lot different than the US. Take heart in the fact that it was an isolated incident; you said you haven''t felt any hostility or ill will before.


Makes you think though; we should all be mindful of the foreigner in our own midst who is unnerved by our way of doing things. They could use a little of our kindness. They probably feel harrassed when we talk louder and louder because they don''t understand English! We have a lot of ''not born in America'' folks in my area: Koreans, Germans, Pakistanis, Mexicans (of course), and a smattering of Eastern Europeans that would have been Soviets in a different decade. When you''re in retail, you learn to get by with a lot of sign language, etc. I''ve always said, ''they speak better English that I speak _______.''
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Absolutely HUGE ditto to this, Holly!

BEG- I am so sorry this happened to you. I can only imagine how scary and intimidating that is when you''re in a country where you are not able to adequately communicate with many people, and especially with a stranger TOUCHING YOU [
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] as you''re clearly telling him to leave you alone, which I imagine was obvious no matter the language barrier. Even if he didn''t understand English, there are types of behaviors that really do transcend the boundaries of countries, languages, and cultures. If you''re YELLING at someone who has just touched you, one would assume that he would know what you were getting at. When it comes down to it, he was nothing more than an extremely rude, inconsiderate, and inappropriate person. No excuses. I am so outraged for you. I would be absolutely FLOORED if I had been in your place, so I can only imagine. Take care, and I hope you''re able to enjoy the rest of your stay there.
 
I wish I had been there with you! I would have given a piece of my mind and a fist. But I'm 4'8" so I doubt I would have made an impression.
I have NO idea what his problem was. It's so stupid of him that he continued to yell at you when you made it clear that you don't understand what he's saying. From your post I get the impression that his ego was crushed when he found out that you aren't Japanese, and he kept yelling and touched your knee (I'm having trouble typing that phrase
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) to seem more intimidating. Sometimes all that they want is for people to cower at their command. Seriously, they have such a retarded idea on what it means to be a "Big, important man". All hail! I was born 30 years ahead of you, I wear a suit and tie, I do the "comb over" hair, I have a beer belly and smell like beer, therefore you must listen to what I say! Even if you don't understand what I'm saying! Bleh. Makes me sick. I'm so sorry you had to experience this.

I heard you had a huge thunderstorm the other day. How is it? I miss those heavy summer showers. Can't say the same for the humidity though.
 
I was a foreign exchange student my senior year of high school and lived in Tokyo (Yokohama prefecture, went to Hino City).... When someone attacks you like that you just look at them puzzled and say...

" Sue me mass en" (sumemassen) it just means sorry and if you say it with a confused look on your face they will usually get the hint that you do not understand. They may assume that because you are asain that makes you Japanese when they do not get that you are of different decent.

You may want to invest in a pocket translator. They have a key pad that you can write in english and it translates into hirigana, katakana and romaji. You can read the romaji and then they can get that you also do not understand. They are not that expensive, maybe about 1300Y or so....its about $10 or so.

Hope that helps!!
 
Just a quick response since I got to work, but Choro, yesterday's thunderstorm was ok - just showers - but I think you were predicting today's weather when mentioned it. It's POURING outside, rain going sideways, lots of thunder and lightning, and really dark. And it's not quite noon yet. Scary!!!
 
He definitely sounds crazy. I kept waiting for someone to come on here and explain something like, "Oh, you see, in Japan, crossing your legs is like spitting on someone''s mother''s grave," but since no one did I assume he really was a nutso. Plus I remember the subways in Japan, the pushing and shoving, etc.

I had a similar experience two years ago on the Champs Elysees after the Tour de France. I had found a bench to sit on and was waiting for my husband to return, and some creepy old guy sat next to me and said, "You speak English?!?!" over and over. I just shook my head and ignored him, figuring that it was best not to identify myself as a foreigner. Then he started touching my knee, and when in my shock I yelled, "No! Don''t touch me!" he actually looked excited and started rubbing it more.

I thought extremely seriously about digging my fingernails into him. That would have been satisfying, but if nobody came to my rescue, then either he was crazy and would beat me up, or he wasn''t crazy and would steal my purse. I could have gotten up and tried to get away from him, but I was tired and didn''t want to get separated from my husband and wasn''t going to let some creep inconvenience me.

So I looked him in the eye, smiled wickedly, and said, "Oh, yeah, I like it . . . I like it SOOO much when you touch me!" And what do you know that [bleep] ran away. I outcreeped the creep!

My husband really hates it when I tell this story but I am proud of myself. Sure, it was weird that my impulse was to imitate the dialogue of a porno, but I got to keep my seat and made a sicko run for it. Hee hee.

I wish the same for your creep.
 
I SORRY THIS HAPPENED..I get how unsettling this can be...a short time ago i was jumped on a train coming home from a job interview during daytime hours and not one of the six other passengers helped me.You should have never been touched by that man.
 
Frekechild, I love the new shoe (or the same shoe??) in your avatar. The color''s awesome. And I have to say, my two favorite things to collect are pretty gemstones and swords
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Unfortunately, I can''t afford the real ones (swords) for a couple more years yet (whew! They were so expensive!).

Brazen_Irish_Hussy, I''m actually not sure about mace laws here in Japan. I''m leaving in 3 weeks so I won''t chance it, but I''m going to take comfort in the fact that my purse, carrying books, coins, camera, will pack a wallop if anyone decides to push his luck further on the subway!

Pricesss, I totally agree. There was actually a few considerations for not causing a physical scene - 1) the guy could be a psycho and I didn''t want to chance that; 2) who knows if anyone would have done anything? Nobody really batted an eye when we started yelling at each other; 3) DEFINITELY would not want to be arrested/deported - for the usual reasons, and also that I''m in law school going into interviews in a month, and things like that definitely wouldn''t look good
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Bliss, your headline made me laugh! I love it and thank you. Obviously the guy needs a lesson on why you shouldn''t bully or underestimate small people - we''re feisty!

MiraclesRule, I''m sorry you had a not so good experience on your trip. I guess I''m really sad to realize that some people will not cut any slack for foreigners when it comes to their customs or way of doing things. I doubt you were going around saying "excuse me" in a condescending voice or anything! They should have realized that you just didn''t know and let it go. It seems like you had a great time though taking in the sights and beauty of the city! And I think you were a very classy tourist in trying to figure out what was going on and trying to be polite (in their language no less!)

Diamondfan, It''s seriously so disturbing how perverted some people can be. After this incident, I kind of catch myself looking askance at the Japanese men around me on the subway. I''m sure 99% of those men are perfectly fine and innocent and not perverts, but that 1% really helps to ruin your general perception. And part of it is just the creepiness factor, and how you just don''t expect it at times. In Spain, I knew that men catcalled and would make overt remarks, but I also knew that for the most part, it''s totally harmless, and I felt safer even among that kind of attention than I would in an unsafer area of a major American city where you don''t know what the people around you are thinking or how they''re reacting. I think for me it''s the same here- people are much more reserved so you don''t expect this kind of behavior, and when you encounter it, wow, it''s creepy.

Anastasia, you reminded me of something else I read yesterday when I was reading up on Japanese customs. There was a Japanese person who mentioned that many women will now do this motion where they press their palms against the side of their legs going up the stairs, in order to close off their skirts so no one on a lower step can see up the skirts. Apparently this has become such a problem that holding your skirt down has become a pretty prevalent practice! Ugh. Really, it is sad that such signs and motions are necessary to preserve your own sense of privacy about your body.

WishfulThinking, you reminded me of something else I read! I apparently got past my shock last night by trying to absorb all the cultural stuff about Japan
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And this is that usually people will back off if you start speaking loudly in English, realizing you''re a foreigner, maybe, or just realizing that this is way too much trouble to go to. I was pretty surprised it didn''t work, although now that I think back on it, I think switching to Korean (which I''ve been doing here lately when English doesn''t quite get through) incensed him more. One friend asked if maybe there was a racial element. I have no idea. But either way, he wouldn''t back off. I found it surprising and probably indicative of the fact that he really is a unique (hopefully) nutcase.

Choro, you described him almost to a T! Except he actually had hair, no comb-over. But 4''8" or not (I''m only 5''1"), I still say you have to watch out for the short girls. Odds are, most of them will be wearing sharp high heels
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Alexis, thanks for the advice! I actually only have a couple more weeks left so I probably won''t get a pocket translator, but it definitely would have made my life (and shopping and eating experiences) easier if I had had one. Fortunately, most of our wanderings in and out of Tokyo are organized by my work, so we''ve been spoiled by having native Japanese people guiding us. I have to admit, I doubt sumimasen would have worked, only because when I finally figured out what was going on (that he had a problem with my crossed legs), my sense of stubbornness and indignation kicked in and I really wanted to piss him off. So I know part of the situation was definitely of my own making. Unfortunately, I hate letting people like that get away with imposing their views on others...

Phoenixgirl, you''re amazing and rue the day another guy comes up and accosts you. I would never have had the nerve to say that, so I applaud you for turning the tables back on that horrible pervert (omg, seriously??? You would have been justified in slapping him) and making him run away. But what an awful incident. He probably got off on the invasion of personal space/non-consent element, so I''m glad you creeped him out. He deserved it!

Jewelerman, were you okay??? I can''t believe nobody helped you - was it just one guy who attacked you or several? I actually live on the south side of Chicago and heard horrible stories about my neighborhood. One story is a guy, walking back home in one of the "safer" areas, got jumped by a gang, and nobody helped. He finally broke out of the circle of kids (seriously, just like 14 or 15 yrs old) and ran out into the street. He nearly got hit by a car, but fortunately the car stopped in time, and the driver, who saw some of it while approaching, opened the door for the guy so he could escape. I hope you were okay and not seriously hurt
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Date: 8/4/2008 1:59:13 PM
Author: Ellen
Date: 8/4/2008 1:39:48 PM

Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl


Ellen, I didn''t think of this until you mentioned the mace, but in Kyoto, I did buy a sword....



It''s a replica. But it looks real enough. I should start carrying it on the subways! (and to complete this mental image, imagine a tiny, 5''1'' Asian girl in a suit and heels, wielding a short sword in the subways of Tokyo!
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)
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LOVE it!! That''d work.
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This made me giggle, I am sorry this happened to you like the others I would learn some key words and use them at will.

The guy sounds like an unstable perv
 
Date: 8/5/2008 3:28:13 AM
Author: Deelight
Date: 8/4/2008 1:59:13 PM

Author: Ellen

Date: 8/4/2008 1:39:48 PM


Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl



Ellen, I didn''t think of this until you mentioned the mace, but in Kyoto, I did buy a sword....




It''s a replica. But it looks real enough. I should start carrying it on the subways! (and to complete this mental image, imagine a tiny, 5''1'' Asian girl in a suit and heels, wielding a short sword in the subways of Tokyo!
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)
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LOVE it!! That''d work.
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This made me giggle, I am sorry this happened to you like the others I would learn some key words and use them at will.


The guy sounds like an unstable perv


I''m pretty sure the heels would be more effective than the sword...
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Date: 8/4/2008 10:55:21 PM
Author: phoenixgirl
He definitely sounds crazy. I kept waiting for someone to come on here and explain something like, ''Oh, you see, in Japan, crossing your legs is like spitting on someone''s mother''s grave,'' but since no one did I assume he really was a nutso. Plus I remember the subways in Japan, the pushing and shoving, etc.

I had a similar experience two years ago on the Champs Elysees after the Tour de France. I had found a bench to sit on and was waiting for my husband to return, and some creepy old guy sat next to me and said, ''You speak English?!?!'' over and over. I just shook my head and ignored him, figuring that it was best not to identify myself as a foreigner. Then he started touching my knee, and when in my shock I yelled, ''No! Don''t touch me!'' he actually looked excited and started rubbing it more.

I thought extremely seriously about digging my fingernails into him. That would have been satisfying, but if nobody came to my rescue, then either he was crazy and would beat me up, or he wasn''t crazy and would steal my purse. I could have gotten up and tried to get away from him, but I was tired and didn''t want to get separated from my husband and wasn''t going to let some creep inconvenience me.

So I looked him in the eye, smiled wickedly, and said, ''Oh, yeah, I like it . . . I like it SOOO much when you touch me!'' And what do you know that [bleep] ran away. I outcreeped the creep!

My husband really hates it when I tell this story but I am proud of myself. Sure, it was weird that my impulse was to imitate the dialogue of a porno, but I got to keep my seat and made a sicko run for it. Hee hee.

I wish the same for your creep.

Ewwww. What a creep.

Did you all see the the video of the subway in Japan with people pushing & shoving to get on the train? Security helps push people in, it cracks me up. Can I post it here?
 
I''m sorry you had that experience - how very frightening!

I was in China 10 years ago and a guy tried to grope me in the street. Luckily I saw him coming. When I was at boarding school, they made us all take self-defence lessons for two years. I had never needed to use them, and it had been 8 years previous that I had done them, but it just came back like clockwork. I blocked him with one hand and drove a fist in under his ribs without even thinking about it.

I then chased him up the road and gave him a massive big kick up the backside!
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Geez, it felt good!

I was with an American girl called Holly at the time and I remember her shouting at me to come back and leave him alone. We couldn''t stop laughing afterwards, but I was just sooooo angry at the time.
 
Clearly some people on trains and out in the world are weirdos and get their kicks in creepy and non legal ways. One never knows the mindset behind someone who does these things, but they sure are not normal. Some guys love that it get the woman furious, others want someone passive. It is hard to know, and the whole thing is creepy to me!
 
Date: 8/5/2008 11:16:10 AM
Author: Pandora II
I'm sorry you had that experience - how very frightening!

I was in China 10 years ago and a guy tried to grope me in the street. Luckily I saw him coming. When I was at boarding school, they made us all take self-defence lessons for two years. I had never needed to use them, and it had been 8 years previous that I had done them, but it just came back like clockwork. I blocked him with one hand and drove a fist in under his ribs without even thinking about it.

I then chased him up the road and gave him a massive big kick up the backside!
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Geez, it felt good!

I was with an American girl called Holly at the time and I remember her shouting at me to come back and leave him alone. We couldn't stop laughing afterwards, but I was just sooooo angry at the time.
GO, PANDORA!!! You're my new hero!!!
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BrownEyedGirl, I'm so sorry this happened to you. Some people are just SOOOO creepy!
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What a jerk. I'm glad you told him off, even if he couldn't understand you!
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Date: 8/5/2008 3:12:39 AM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl
Frekechild, I love the new shoe (or the same shoe??) in your avatar. The color''s awesome. And I have to say, my two favorite things to collect are pretty gemstones and swords
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Unfortunately, I can''t afford the real ones (swords) for a couple more years yet (whew! They were so expensive!).

Brazen_Irish_Hussy, I''m actually not sure about mace laws here in Japan. I''m leaving in 3 weeks so I won''t chance it, but I''m going to take comfort in the fact that my purse, carrying books, coins, camera, will pack a wallop if anyone decides to push his luck further on the subway!

Pricesss, I totally agree. There was actually a few considerations for not causing a physical scene - 1) the guy could be a psycho and I didn''t want to chance that; 2) who knows if anyone would have done anything? Nobody really batted an eye when we started yelling at each other; 3) DEFINITELY would not want to be arrested/deported - for the usual reasons, and also that I''m in law school going into interviews in a month, and things like that definitely wouldn''t look good
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Bliss, your headline made me laugh! I love it and thank you. Obviously the guy needs a lesson on why you shouldn''t bully or underestimate small people - we''re feisty!

MiraclesRule, I''m sorry you had a not so good experience on your trip. I guess I''m really sad to realize that some people will not cut any slack for foreigners when it comes to their customs or way of doing things. I doubt you were going around saying ''excuse me'' in a condescending voice or anything! They should have realized that you just didn''t know and let it go. It seems like you had a great time though taking in the sights and beauty of the city! And I think you were a very classy tourist in trying to figure out what was going on and trying to be polite (in their language no less!)

Diamondfan, It''s seriously so disturbing how perverted some people can be. After this incident, I kind of catch myself looking askance at the Japanese men around me on the subway. I''m sure 99% of those men are perfectly fine and innocent and not perverts, but that 1% really helps to ruin your general perception. And part of it is just the creepiness factor, and how you just don''t expect it at times. In Spain, I knew that men catcalled and would make overt remarks, but I also knew that for the most part, it''s totally harmless, and I felt safer even among that kind of attention than I would in an unsafer area of a major American city where you don''t know what the people around you are thinking or how they''re reacting. I think for me it''s the same here- people are much more reserved so you don''t expect this kind of behavior, and when you encounter it, wow, it''s creepy.

Anastasia, you reminded me of something else I read yesterday when I was reading up on Japanese customs. There was a Japanese person who mentioned that many women will now do this motion where they press their palms against the side of their legs going up the stairs, in order to close off their skirts so no one on a lower step can see up the skirts. Apparently this has become such a problem that holding your skirt down has become a pretty prevalent practice! Ugh. Really, it is sad that such signs and motions are necessary to preserve your own sense of privacy about your body.

WishfulThinking, you reminded me of something else I read! I apparently got past my shock last night by trying to absorb all the cultural stuff about Japan
3.gif
And this is that usually people will back off if you start speaking loudly in English, realizing you''re a foreigner, maybe, or just realizing that this is way too much trouble to go to. I was pretty surprised it didn''t work, although now that I think back on it, I think switching to Korean (which I''ve been doing here lately when English doesn''t quite get through) incensed him more. One friend asked if maybe there was a racial element. I have no idea. But either way, he wouldn''t back off. I found it surprising and probably indicative of the fact that he really is a unique (hopefully) nutcase.

Choro, you described him almost to a T! Except he actually had hair, no comb-over. But 4''8'' or not (I''m only 5''1''), I still say you have to watch out for the short girls. Odds are, most of them will be wearing sharp high heels
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Alexis, thanks for the advice! I actually only have a couple more weeks left so I probably won''t get a pocket translator, but it definitely would have made my life (and shopping and eating experiences) easier if I had had one. Fortunately, most of our wanderings in and out of Tokyo are organized by my work, so we''ve been spoiled by having native Japanese people guiding us. I have to admit, I doubt sumimasen would have worked, only because when I finally figured out what was going on (that he had a problem with my crossed legs), my sense of stubbornness and indignation kicked in and I really wanted to piss him off. So I know part of the situation was definitely of my own making. Unfortunately, I hate letting people like that get away with imposing their views on others...

Phoenixgirl, you''re amazing and rue the day another guy comes up and accosts you. I would never have had the nerve to say that, so I applaud you for turning the tables back on that horrible pervert (omg, seriously??? You would have been justified in slapping him) and making him run away. But what an awful incident. He probably got off on the invasion of personal space/non-consent element, so I''m glad you creeped him out. He deserved it!

Jewelerman, were you okay??? I can''t believe nobody helped you - was it just one guy who attacked you or several? I actually live on the south side of Chicago and heard horrible stories about my neighborhood. One story is a guy, walking back home in one of the ''safer'' areas, got jumped by a gang, and nobody helped. He finally broke out of the circle of kids (seriously, just like 14 or 15 yrs old) and ran out into the street. He nearly got hit by a car, but fortunately the car stopped in time, and the driver, who saw some of it while approaching, opened the door for the guy so he could escape. I hope you were okay and not seriously hurt
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BEG,
thanks for the concern!I wasnt injured.It was only one young man about 18yrs old who was double my size...he jumped off the train when it came to the next station and stopped and a young girl about 15 got on a started to yell at him to get off me(he literally jumped on top of me and pinned my arms under me)The police said I was lucky that i wasnt injured and still had my jewelry,Rolex and brief case.By the way,I live in a very conservative state(utah) with a fairly low crime rate compared to Chicago,but the week this happened to me there was several car vandalisms and two daytime armed robberies at the train stations with no security people in sight!I was later told that there is only 26 security people for the whole transit system!
 
wow. some people are just rude! what is the deal with leg crossing? that is impolite there? and so what if it is, i can think of things that i have heard of on trains that are way worse than someone being implote. i am happy to read/listen to your rant. we all need to let it out and where better a place than ps.
 
OK, I just have to wonder . . . how exactly is leg crossing impolite? Can anyone who is familiar with Japanese culture enlighten us?
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Here in the US, if a girl is wearing a skirt, it can be considered impolite for her NOT to cross her legs.
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Date: 8/5/2008 3:12:39 AM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl
Choro, you described him almost to a T! Except he actually had hair, no comb-over. But 4''8'' or not (I''m only 5''1''), I still say you have to watch out for the short girls. Odds are, most of them will be wearing sharp high heels
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Oh, I can tell you stories about how I warded off chikans. They usually go for the conservatively dressed little girls because those girls tend to not do anything about chikan. All of them were in for a shock with me.
So you are Korean? I even more surprised now. Japanese LOVE anything Korean.

I heard about the rain from my friends in Japan. I miss those kind of freak rain. CA is so mild.
 
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