LiW Upset all weekend

[FarFarAway]

*Sigh*

So I finally had a talk with SO this weekend about what we were thinking as to getting married and the future. Here''s basically how it went:

I started off by asking him to define his goals in life and then letting him know mine. His was to have a career, a family and be successful at both. Although he never really thought about a timeline, he really doesn''t want to achieve all those things too late in life (we''re both 25, going on 26). I wanted the same thing.

Marriage: He definitely 100% wants to marry me and only me. He loves me and I do not doubt this at all. However, he kept talking in really broad terms of "well, of course we''ll get married. I love you" and "I want to be with you for the rest of my life"...all good things, but when I asked him if he''s given any real thought to when and how (we are both in graduate programs) he goes "No, not really"

I really broke down at that point. I really truly thought he had at least given it some thought and in fact, I was really hoping that the romantic weekend he planned for us was a proposal and now I know he''s really not thought about it at all (and no, its not a diversion tactic...i can tell)

So we go on talking for a bit more (and crying at this point) and come to the conclusion that we can''t get married until at least the end of our programs (3 more years? 2?) which I guess is the best it will be. But I told him that I need more than just a "Oh eventually". Can we at least get engaged and plan a date? Tell parents?

He goes "I have no money to buy you a ring!" This just made me cry harder because:
1) I never EVER even mentioned a ring to him, much less something uber expensive and huge. NEVER. It would be nice, but its not the deciding factor.

2) He just bought himself a computer a few months ago, a car (a nice one) AND had it SHIPPED for 1500+, AND is now considering getting 2000+ worth of furniture. I understand that I have no say in how he spends his money but from that I can tell where I stand in his priorities list.

But finally we got it out that I was upset because I felt like I was making him propose and he''s dragging his feet on it.

And that was the end of the conversation because I had to leave town for the week to a conference.


I dunno. I have no idea what to think. The more upset I got the more upset he got and he really just didn''t know what else to say except that he loved me more than anything and is so sorry he''s making me cry. I didn''t really argue with him about the money thing since I guess I felt like I was just being a big brat for saying "well, you''re spending all this $$ on yourself, why can''t you get me a ring?"


I have no idea what to do now. He''s been upset ever since and i''ve been trying to cheer HIM up because he''s been so sad. So now I think HE thinks the whole thing has blown over and he''s telling jokes and more upbeat and hasn''t brought up the conversations since.

HELP.

Am I being a brat about this? Is he just not ready? what do I do now?

 

[TravelingGal]

No, I don't think you're being a brat.

Refresh my memory though...aren't you and your SO long distance? I think there's been issues before with him not prioritizing you in his life?

Not to cut it short here, but I am trying to remember your situation. But I will say, I'm sorry you're so upset!

ETA...

OK, I checked back and you are still long distance...got it. Is this something you think you can still manage for the next couple of years? I really don't have the best advice for you, because it does seem from your past posts that you're not in the forefront of his mind when it comes to certain priorities. However, if you do both really love each other, I don't know if you have any other choice than to stick it out?

Sorry for the non-advice...I haven't had dinner yet and on I'm on empty stomach. Oops..TGuy just served me dinner...maybe I can come back with something more coherent!

 

[luckystar112]

I think your feelings are justified. And I think if he is spending that much money on things he doesn''t *need* that I would be ticked too.

I wish I had some advice for you. I mean, I just went through it so you''d think I had SOMETHING to say. But all I can really say is that I''ve been there, and I really hope it works out for you.

 

[KimberlyH]

It sounds like your BF is a one thing atta time kinda guy and right now grad school is his focus and when that is completed he''ll be ready to move on to the next thing. Trouble is, marriage is your focus and that doesn''t mesh with where he''s at. I''d suggest you figure out a plan, as a team, we''ll graduate by X date, be married by X date (i.e. month or season and/or year) and then let the proposal come when he''s ready. This should provide you with some piece of mind that you''re headed in the same direction with out the imminent pressure of a proposal and a ring on his shoulders. But if you do this, be prepared to stand firm that X is you marriage date (because you''re really looking to get married, not engaged) and you need X amount of time to plan a wedding so be sure he is aware of that and you both factor that in.

 

[FarFarAway]

Travelling Gal: We were, and now we aren't anymore (yay) finally. Maybe that's why he hasn't thought about it too much? (We both actually JUST moved to a new city together, although I refused to move IN with him. That would KILL my father I think ha.)


Luckystar: Thanks for the support. Congrats on your engagement btw

 

[FarFarAway]

Oh and I forgot to add: My roommate just got engaged maybe a month ago and every time we sit down to eat/watch TV her damn diamond BLINGS so much that it gives me a headache!

I actually once had to tell her to sit at an angle because I was getting seizures.

disclaimer: its a beautiful ring though.

 

[TravelingGal]

OK, I have a full stomach now, and, er...I still don''t have anything really useful to say.

I am glad you are both in the same town now. That makes it a lot easier. Seems like there is a timeline of 3 years. Can you just enjoy being a girlfriend for awhile longer? I know this sounds trite coming from someone who is married, but ENJOY your time as a girlfriend. Really! You have the rest of your life to be a wife, which means you will for sure be a fiancee at some point (enjoy that too, btw).

 

[bee*]

Sorry to hear that your conversation didn''t go the way that you had hoped. I had the same conversation with D last year as I thought that he was going to propose on our trip away and he hadn''t even thought about it

. I can also understand how annoying it must be to watch him spending his money on other things, and not your e-ring. Are you happy with a three year timeline? For me, it''s been a year since we sat down and discussed things and it''s flown by if its any consolation. If you''re to stay together, you need to work out something that you''re both happy with, otherwise one of you might become resentful.

 

[anchor31]

I''m sorry this is happening to you. It really seems to me that marrying you may be something he ultimately wants, but right now is the last thing on his mind. If he is making important purchases (and considering more) and saying he doesn''t have money for a ring, that pretty much sums it up.

So I guess it''s up to you. What do you want? If it''s to get married in 3 years as soon as you''re done with school, tell him. Tell him the length of engagement you''d like to have. Make it unmistakably clear. Work on a compromise. Get concrete timeframes (ie: engagement in 2009 and marriage in 2010). Some guys work a lot better with timeframes (mine does), so that might help with the money issue as well. If he asks for time to think about it, it might help to give him a timeframe for this as well (ie: before Christmas).

Good luck!

 

[Keepingthefaith21]

I have to tell you that most of the replies I have read have rung true. My only opinion is regarding the money issue. If you both just moved to a new city that means starting anew which probably requires a few major purchases. In the past year the amount of money my SO and I have spent on our new home, furnishing the home and recently a new auto for myself and soon-to-be one for him, could very easily amount to a very nice SET of engagement rings (his and hers). However, there are things in life that sometimes, sadly, take priority over other purchases.

Now, if you were telling us he went on an elaborate vacation with just the guys, bought himself a new pool table, jet ski, season tickets to some sporting event…then I would agree that his priorities are out of line. However, you mentioned items which, to me, seem like reasonable purchases. A computer, car and furniture do not scream unreasonable to me (yes, even if the car was “nice”). I am not trying to belittle how you feel, because I bet we’ve all been there (I know I have).

Now that you have broached the topic with him I wouldn’t hesitate to try and talk about it again, if you feel you’d like to nail down a better timeframe. It’s a convenient time to say “I’ve been thinking about a few things we discussed the other week, especially while I was away…”. If he was upset that you were crying, that’s a very good indication that this guy really loves you. I know of a lot of men who would get angry if their SO’s were crying over the very same thing. It seems like he did give you a timeline more or less (after your programs are complete) perhaps you could ask “does this mean we can not consider engagement before our programs are done or are you simply talking about marriage?”

Good luck and make sure to let us know if you talk to him again! Hang in there…you never know what life has in store for you around the next corner!

 

[janinegirly]

i would say take a deep breath and remember what''s important. to me, your bf is being very loving and trying to make you happy, but he is also being practical, which long term are great traits.

he''s repeated told you he loves you, will marry you, but does not have the funds yet. You guys are both in your mid 20''s, that''s still v. young, and it makes sense to put career and schooling on firm footing before dealing with weddings and all the crazy expenses and life changes that brings along.
I also understand that you have your own timeline and expectations, and it''s hard to put stuff on hold mentally--and 3 yrs is a long time.

My suggestion is look at the big picture and not worry about roommates, money spent on computers or other less meaningful things. And also to compromise. Maybe tell him you understand his side, but that you have a side too. Maybe agree to 2 years. That way he has 2 yrs to save, plan--you guys can work on finisihing your programs, and then you can be engaged for the last year with aims to plan a wedding soon after. I don''t know t he specifics, but I guess my overall point is try to compromise. marriage is a lot of give and take so even this process is good ground work for what is to come!

 

[robbie3982]

I''m sorry you had a bad weekend

. I think it''s just a guy thing. My FI (husband in 2 days!!!) acted the same way before we got engaged. He''s a spender and I''m a saver. Every weekend he would insist on taking everyone out to dinner and he''d drop like $100. Then he''d buy every video game as soon as it came out (they''re all like $60) and anything else that he saw and wanted. He had/has a decent paying job, but was living paycheck to paycheck (quite comfortably though). He kept telling me that he wanted to marry me, but I knew he wasn''t saving any money just from what I would see him spending.

I finally convinced him to start a savings account (not just for a ring, but because he only had a checking account!). A few months later we made a down payment on the ring to put it on layaway and a few weeks later he paid it off...with his credit card! I freaked out when he told me that and immediately paid off the balance.

It sounds like your guy is a lot like mine. Not big on making definite plans and not so good at saving. I don''t think it necessarily means that you''re low on his priority list.

I agree that you should walk him through the timeline. We want to get married x month of x year, I want a x year/month long engagement so that means you''d need to propose by x date and it will take you x amount of time to save for a ring so you should start saving by x date.

It takes a bit of the romance out of it, but in the end you''re getting married and he can still make the proposal super romantic

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 9/5/2007 10:42:20 PM
Author:FarFarAway
He goes ''I have no money to buy you a ring!'' This just made me cry harder because:

2) He just bought himself a computer a few months ago, a car (a nice one) AND had it SHIPPED for 1500+, AND is now considering getting 2000+ worth of furniture. I understand that I have no say in how he spends his money but from that I can tell where I stand in his priorities list.

...since I guess I felt like I was just being a big brat for saying ''well, you''re spending all this $$ on yourself, why can''t you get me a ring?''

He''s been upset ever since and i''ve been trying to cheer HIM up because he''s been so sad. So now I think HE thinks the whole thing has blown over and he''s telling jokes and more upbeat and hasn''t brought up the conversations since.

I have felt ALL of this with my SO too. I''ve had the conversation where I had to tell J that rings cost a lot more than he thought, which led him to feeling inadequate because he doesn''t make a ton of money, which led to me bringing up all the purchases he''s made for himself that I consider luxury purchases....and it made me feel like a spoiled brat, but I was so disappointed that his first reaction was to say "it''s impossible" instead of trying to figure out a way to slowly save up some money that we had to get into it. And I told him I felt like a selfish whiny brat, but that it was more about his attitude than anything else that bothered me.

If we save up money but want to get a house, or a car instead, ok. I''ll be fine without a ring. But if I''m asking him to save up for our life together and the response is "I can''t, there''s no way" then we''re going to have a rough road ahead, because that''s not teamwork.

 

[Sha]

I agree that it''s probably a guy thing. Most guys tend to think in broad terms, ie. "of course we''ll get married someday!", but as to pinning down the details.. that''s another story. It seems that most fellas don''t think about the ''whens and hows'' until their girlfriends talk to them about it.. then they realize all the things they have to do, money to spend, priorities to make, etc, to get things moving.

My FI knew he wanted us to get married but had no clue about engagement rings, proposals, wedding planning or anything wedding-related until I talked to him about it! At least you''ve started the discussion, so he''s started to think about it seriously now. That''s a good start. I know you probably wished that things were farther ahead, though.

I know how you feel.

 

[LIW13]

good luck with these feelings...they are hard ones.

just remember that you are entitled in life to creat the world that makes you happy.....will you be happy if you wait 3 years before an engagement? that would mean marriage after 30.....would that work for you?...just be honest with yourself...if you can wait and feel good about yourself and your relationship then that''s great! I was in the exact same situation....I couldn''t wait and my 2 year relationship ended with a guy who didn''t really seem to get the importance in planning a permanent life together...it was very sad for a couple months, then i met a great new guy who wanted the same things i did at the same time that i did.....much easier and less "tortured" relationship....we got engaged within 6 months marrying within one year...

trust yourself...only you know what makes you happy.

 

[FarFarAway]

Thank you ladies so much for making me feel a bit less upset about it. I guess it is a guy thing.
I talked to him again and he got upset and said "I DON''T want it to be like this! I don''t want to make it like you are BEGGING me to ask you! I wanted it to be romantic...I''d get the ring, and it would be perfect!"

Which is very very sweet, but his timeline was 3 years from now, meaning that if we didn''t talk about it, I would have been sitting around waiting for 6-7 years! I asked him if he really truly expected that...and does he really need it to be perfect before he proposes.

He had no answer...and still doesn''t I think. *sigh*

We are moving towards the right direction I think, but its just so HARD.

Thank you all though

 

[anchor31]

Date: 9/6/2007 9:50:24 PM
Author: FarFarAway
Thank you ladies so much for making me feel a bit less upset about it. I guess it is a guy thing.
I talked to him again and he got upset and said ''I DON''T want it to be like this! I don''t want to make it like you are BEGGING me to ask you! I wanted it to be romantic...I''d get the ring, and it would be perfect!''

Which is very very sweet, but his timeline was 3 years from now, meaning that if we didn''t talk about it, I would have been sitting around waiting for 6-7 years! I asked him if he really truly expected that...and does he really need it to be perfect before he proposes.

He had no answer...and still doesn''t I think. *sigh*

We are moving towards the right direction I think, but its just so HARD.

Thank you all though

I have to say this post got me a little upset. You''re not begging him, you just want to be aware of where YOUR life is going! Men and their uber-romantic-complete-surprise-with-fiancée-completely-uninvolved fantasy/myth... I don''t get it. If the situation was reversed, I don''t think they''d think it''s fair either.

I truly hope you can get an answer out of him.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 9/7/2007 2:20:59 PM
Author: anchor31

Date: 9/6/2007 9:50:24 PM
Author: FarFarAway
I talked to him again and he got upset and said ''I DON''T want it to be like this! I don''t want to make it like you are BEGGING me to ask you! I wanted it to be romantic...I''d get the ring, and it would be perfect!''

I have to say this post got me a little upset. You''re not begging him, you just want to be aware of where YOUR life is going!

I don''t really think his sentiments are so "sweet"

Not to get too psychological ... but sometimes people project what THEY are thinking onto what YOU might think. Maybe it''s HIM who''s thinking that you''re "begging him to ask you". And maybe it''s not just the PROPOSAL he want to be "perfect" ... maybe he also wants a "perfect relationship" a "perfect fit" ... a "perfect girl".

If that''s the case (and I do mean "if" ... I have no way of knowing for sure) I''d say GROW UP BUDDY. Man, black & white thinking ANNOYS ME. There is no "perfect" ... this is real life with all its darn shades of grey and you''re a real girl with GET THIS your OWN needs and your OWN timeline and your OWN opinions.

Is it really ok w/you if he "gets upset" when you discuss your true feelings? What, you''re supposed to forget your needs for another FEW YEARS just to keep the peace and let him have his "perfect proposal"?

IMO grown ups discuss grown up relationship issues TOGETHER. Is this freakin DISNEYLAND or 2007????

 

[gailrmv]

I think it''s great that you and he both agree that you both want to be married. That is a huge step in the right direction (meaning, that you have the same goal.)

I''m a planner for sure and so many people are more "in the moment" types. I was married young too, but some people see the 20s as time for focusing on your education and career, and later 20s/30s as more a time for marriage and family. Of course you and your BF have to do what''s right for you both, but maybe he is more of an in the moment type who figures he''ll settle down in a few years. That''s not incompatible with your goals of having a time frame, wanting to know where you stand, etc. It is great that you are talking about these things and seeing if your goals/timeframes can align to make you both happy.

 

[KimberlyH]

Ditto what deco said.

 

[bee*]

I agree with Deco. What would really worry me is that he gets so upset when you tell him what you''d like. This is something that you should be able to talk about with the person that you are going to be with forever.

 

[Sha]

I think he probably feels bad that he made you cry and get upset/stressed about it. It's likely not the way he wanted a conversation about marrying you to go. My feeling is that he does want marriage, but probably was thinking about it in a vague, broad, "sometime in the near future" kind of way (which is VERY typical for most fellas), while you are thinking about it more in terms of pinpointing timelimes, details, planning etc (which is TYPICAL for us). I think those two ways of looking at the future are clashing. You're upset because he's so vague about something so important, and he's probably upset that you're getting stressed about something he's thought about and WANTS to happen, even though he hasn't thought of exactly 'how and when' yet.

(How long have y'all been together? As someone else say, at 25 - he might be more focused on his career right now, than getting married).

I agree that y'all should talk about it though, and he shouldn't get upset because you want to know. I would give it a little time though, since the last discussion ended with strained emotions on both sides. Talking to him about it again so soon after may make him feel pressured and have the mistaken view that you're 'begging' him for a proposal.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 9/7/2007 8:02:29 PM
Author: Sha
You''re upset because he''s so vague about something so important, and he''s probably upset that you''re getting stressed about something he''s thought about and WANTS to happen, even though he hasn''t thought of exactly ''how and when'' yet.

Yah, I think that hits on it exactly.

I had a similar convo with my guy recently, and he got upset in a similar way to FarFarAway''s beau. I ended up having another serious discussion with him about how we needed to be able to talk about serious topics like marriage, kids and finances without fighting, while being calm and collected and all that. I didn''t think I''d ever have to be quite *that* blunt, but I was to make sure he knew that if we couldn''t talk about this stuff, we were through. So when we revisited the topics we''d talked about that had originally upset him, we had a grown-up conversation and actually got our points across without getting upset or defensive or anything. Maybe that''d be something to try? Having a conversation about having conversations? *shrugs*

 

[zoebartlett]

I''m sorry you''re going through this. Talking with your boyfriend about a timeline might be a good idea but be prepared for your boyfriend to feel somewhat pressured. I know that''s not your intention, but it MAY happen. If he truly hasn''t thought of getting engaged yet, it might make him uncomfortable to "suddenly" (to him anyway) need to have definite plans for his future. From what you''ve said, it sounds like he genuinely wants you in his future, but he just isn''t ready. I don''t think you sounded bratty at all, by the way. You have very valid feelings and concerns and you have every right to voice them. Guys take a long time to get in sync with us gals. Ever hear of "boy soon" and "girl soon?" They''re totally different. It sounds like he might be more able to think through all of this closer to the time when you''re both done (or close to finishing) grad school. Maybe he wants to wait until he''s in a better place to provide for you and all that. I don''t really think the two (planning a future with someone and finishing school) have to be mutally exclusive of each other but I can kind of see that point.

I really am trying to help...honest. I do sympathize...I know it must be hard. I think its good that you had a talk and you both know what the other one wants. I''m sure in time things will turn around for you.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The only thing that bugs me about the "wait until we finish school thing" is why? Why do you have to wait until you finish grad school when you are both having to live somewhere anyway? It probably would cost less to get married and live together than to each have your own place. We know so many couples that married while in med school, law school, seminary, etc. As a matter of fact, we married when my husband still had a semester of college left.

So I totally understand where you''re coming from. Guys just have a different thought process altogether.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 9/6/2007 5:15:43 PM
Author: gwendolyn

I have felt ALL of this with my SO too. I''ve had the conversation where I had to tell J that rings cost a lot more than he thought, which led him to feeling inadequate because he doesn''t make a ton of money, which led to me bringing up all the purchases he''s made for himself that I consider luxury purchases....and it made me feel like a spoiled brat, but I was so disappointed that his first reaction was to say ''it''s impossible'' instead of trying to figure out a way to slowly save up some money that we had to get into it. And I told him I felt like a selfish whiny brat, but that it was more about his attitude than anything else that bothered me.

If we save up money but want to get a house, or a car instead, ok. I''ll be fine without a ring. But if I''m asking him to save up for our life together and the response is ''I can''t, there''s no way'' then we''re going to have a rough road ahead, because that''s not teamwork.

You''re dating an english guy right?

The average price spent on an e-ring here is $2k and most girls are ecstatic with their 0.30 ct ring from somewhere like H.M.Samuels. Half a carat is regarded as HUGE. Not that there is anything wrong with a smaller diamond, but the american girls I see on the tube have much bigger rings in general than the english girls do.

Most of my friends (who are on 6 figure GBP salaries) think we were very extravagant for spending $6k

He''ll take some getting used to the idea of an ''American'' style e-ring I''m afraid.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 9/11/2007 8:34:57 AM
Author: Pandora II
You''re dating an english guy right?

The average price spent on an e-ring here is $2k and most girls are ecstatic with their 0.30 ct ring from somewhere like H.M.Samuels. Half a carat is regarded as HUGE. Not that there is anything wrong with a smaller diamond, but the american girls I see on the tube have much bigger rings in general than the english girls do.

Most of my friends (who are on 6 figure GBP salaries) think we were very extravagant for spending $6k

He''ll take some getting used to the idea of an ''American'' style e-ring I''m afraid.

I''m not sure how much of it was about the difference in culture, and how much was the fact that he is amaaaaaaaaaazingly clueless about some things. He literally thought we could just pick a weekend and pick out a ring, and neither of us has *any* money right now.

I''ve tried on a few sizes of stones and I think .75 works just fine for me--my I wear a size 8.5/9 ring (depending on who does the measuring), and any smaller than that looks bad since my finger''s big. But yeah, I''ve also thought about how the reality of the situation is that we''ll probably have to spend any engagement ring money on practical things, so it''s entirely possible the size of the rock won''t be an issue because I might not get one.

But yeah, if half a carat is regarded as huge in the UK, that is quite different to where I live (near Washington D.C.). One carat is average here among my friends, with a few of them wearing 1.5 carats.