UNBELIEVABLE!!!

[Irishgrrrl]

OK, I never participate in the political threads, but this just really got to me:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20080821/McCain.Houses/

And MCCAIN is trying to portray OBAMA as "elitist"?!?!

Discuss!

 

[Anna0499]

Elitist people don''t necessarily have the most money, it''s more about attitude than material wealth...

 

[movie zombie]

ah, but combine elitist attitude with $ and you get mccain....oh, how many houses do we own, gee, i just can''t remember, i''ll have someone check and get back to you.

movie zombie

 

[LaraOnline]

Intellectual elitism is alive and well
... but it doesn''t seem to enrage the socially motivated as much as material elitism

Being a member of the material elite just seems like it would politically isolate you to a degree, in a democracy it is only natural that we are suspicious of great wealth...
but, so often, it is simply the green eyed monster talking.

The first time I visited the house of a genuinely wealthy person, I was mystified.
They were genuinely super-nice people!

 

[Anna0499]

I really don''t care if he doesn''t know how many houses he & his wife own because I don''t know how many houses my parents own. Obama''s margin is shrinking fast, so I understand the focus on this, though.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 8/22/2008 8:05:45 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
I really don''t care if he doesn''t know how many houses he & his wife own because I don''t know how many houses my parents own. Obama''s margin is shrinking fast, so I understand the focus on this, though.

IndyGirl, I think it''s very understandable for you not to know how many houses someone ELSE owns (even if they are your parents). But, I''m sure you do know how many houses YOU own, correct?

I''m just not sure that I would want someone who doesn''t even know how many houses he owns to run this country!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 8/21/2008 9:31:46 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
Elitist people don''t necessarily have the most money, it''s more about attitude than material wealth...

Exactly! And by attitude, I''m sure you''re referring to how the person in question treats others . . . such as his ex-wife for example!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/22/2008 8:05:45 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
I really don't care if he doesn't know how many houses he & his wife own because I don't know how many houses my parents own. Obama's margin is shrinking fast, so I understand the focus on this, though.

who cares how many houses he owns.

he ain't gonna give me one. i want to hear less TAXES.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/22/2008 9:07:22 AM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 8/22/2008 8:05:45 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
I really don''t care if he doesn''t know how many houses he & his wife own because I don''t know how many houses my parents own. Obama''s margin is shrinking fast, so I understand the focus on this, though.

IndyGirl, I think it''s very understandable for you not to know how many houses someone ELSE owns (even if they are your parents). But, I''m sure you do know how many houses YOU own, correct?

I''m just not sure that I would want someone who doesn''t even know how many houses he owns to run this country!

Not really, I will inherit all of those properties soon & am financially backed by my parents so most would probably expect me to know. I just don''t see it as a huge issue...it''s not a dealmaker or breaker for me, but like I said, with Obama''s lead shrinking fast (& even gone in some polls), I can see how his supporters would make it one. McCain & his wife file taxes separately & if I was him I wouldn''t want to jump the gun with saying how many I owed either because undoubtedly the media will research this & call you out if you are wrong. Due to her family fortune, I find it plausible that he might not know how many properties she owns which may or not be considered his as well.

Anyway, I was basically responding to your OP that the number of houses someone owes necessarily constitutes elitism. I know many people who are middle class (& lower) who have elitist attitudes.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/22/2008 9:08:15 AM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 8/21/2008 9:31:46 PM
Author: IndyGirl22
Elitist people don't necessarily have the most money, it's more about attitude than material wealth...

Exactly! And by attitude, I'm sure you're referring to how the person in question treats others . . . such as his ex-wife for example!

Again, not really. The characteristics which make someone an elitist aren't necessarily the same as those that make someone a bad husband.

Otherwise, Bill Clinton is an elitist.

 

[luckystar112]

I assume that these properties aren''t so much physical dwellings of the McCains'' but investments.
I also assume that his wife handles most of these investments, judging by the fact that they file taxes separately and she makes millions. Therefore, I wouldn''t expect him to know. If you asked me how many shares of stock we have and where, I wouldn''t be able to tell you--even though I know we have stock!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

IndyGirl~

Where in my original post did I say that "the number of houses someone owns necessarily constitutes elitism"? My issue is not with the fact that he owns multiple houses, but the fact that he does not know how many! I don''t feel that the number of houses someone owns, or their level of wealth, makes them elitist. I know quite a few people who are wealthy and own more than one home who are absolutely not elitist. I do feel that someone who says that you have to make $5 million per year in order to be a rich American and doesn''t know how many houses he owns is an elitist. Those are very irresponsible statements coming from someone who is running for president during an economic recession.

Also, let''s assume that Mr. McCain is right about the threshhold of wealth in America being a gross annual income of $5 million. If that''s the case, Mr. McCain and his wife qualify as "rich" and Mr. Obama and his wife do not, according to the article. So, which couple is most likely to be more in touch with the feelings/needs of the common voter? The "rich" couple or the "poor" couple (in Mr. McCain''s estimation)?

Although I''m sure you will inherit whatever your parents own, I still would not necessarily expect you to know everything about their finances (including how many homes they own). I am my parents'' sole heir and I''m sure there are things about their finances that I''m not yet aware of. However, I absolutely do know how many homes I myself own, as well as how many homes DH owns! If Mr. McCain had said that he doesn''t know how many homes his parents or his wife''s parents own, that wouldn''t concern me at all. But, what he SAID was that he doesn''t know how many homes HE HIMSELF owns.

As far as the issue of Mr. McCain''s first marriage: I feel that an elitist attitude very often goes hand-in-hand with an attitude of entitlement . . . the "I''ll do whatever I want and to hell with the consequences" mentality. I think it''s absolutely shameful that he treated his first wife the way he did. It shows an extreme lack of character on his part. You are correct that "the characteristics which make someone an elitist aren''t necessarily the same as those that make someone a bad husband." However, IMHO, Mr. McCain is both.

 

[aprilcait]

I don't care who called who an "elitist" first... they both need to stop. They're acting like children. I'm just waiting for one of them to yell out: "I'm rubber and you're glue..."

I hate when political campaigns get nasty. Name-calling, smear campaigns, negative comercials, etc. simply lower my view of the candidate who distributed/is responsible for the material; they do not change my opinion of the candidate being vilified. Such campaigning is purely in poor taste, if you ask me. Yuck!

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 8/22/2008 11:43:35 AM
Author: aprilcait
I don''t care who called who an ''elitist'' first... they both need to stop. They''re acting like children. I''m just waiting for one of them to yell out: ''I''m rubber and you''re glue...''

I hate when political campaigns get nasty. Name-calling, smear campaigns, negative comercials, etc. simply lower my view of the candidate who distributed/is responsible for the material; they do not change my opinion of the candidate being vilified. Such campaigning is purely in poor taste, if you ask me. Yuck!

April, I agree. I think it''s a shame that political candidates in general feel the need to cut down their opponent in order to make themselves look better by comparison. I wish they would just clearly state their positions on the issues and leave it at that!

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/22/2008 11:36:00 AM
Author: luckystar112
I assume that these properties aren''t so much physical dwellings of the McCains'' but investments.
I also assume that his wife handles most of these investments, judging by the fact that they file taxes separately and she makes millions. Therefore, I wouldn''t expect him to know. If you asked me how many shares of stock we have and where, I wouldn''t be able to tell you--even though I know we have stock!

My thoughts exactly! Many of the properties are condos in the same city, so I would assume they don''t live in them. It just isn''t a big issue for me that he didn''t know...I guess to some it is...

 

[Anna0499]

Irishgirl - Okay, so your definition of an elitist is someone who doesn''t know how many houses he or she owns? That''s totally your opinion, but I disagree with that. Also, if you really read the articles carefully where McCain said that thing about earning $5 million a year it was obvious he was joking (the articles say he "cracked" or "joked"). i.e. From this site: "I think if you''re just talking about income, how about $5 million?" he said. McCain was laughing as he made the comment, and added, "I''m sure that comment will be distorted."

I actually don''t care what McCain considers a lot of money, as it is entirely subjective & changes with who you ask; I care more about how much my income (whether considered to be a high or low amount by McCain) will be taxed. I only said I didn''t know how many properties my parents own because I could see McCain having the same relationship with his wife. Let''s say her parents own several properties but they are listed in his wife''s name. Many would consider those to be his properties as well through marriage, even if he knows little about them. Why risk misstating information that will be used against you if you are unsure?

You are completely entitled to feel that McCain has poor character, I was simply pointing out one can be one without the other, which you alluded to in your post.

The truth is neither candidate is hurting for money & we will never see a political campaign void of negative ads, so I concentrate my efforts on researching the candidate''s true positions on issues important to me instead of listening to the media hype & spin concerning a few comments a candidate has made in passing. However, with the race tigher than ever nowadays, I think both candidates will be grasping for straws. I don''t think either is ideal, but we often have to pick the lesser of two evils in politics.

 

[dragonfly411]

McCain could very well OWN them and rent them out, or his wife, in order to make money, this is called BUSINESS. Also I agree with McCain''s campaigner - can a man who made 4 mill last year, and bought a one million dollar house with the help of a felon REALLY TALK??????

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 8/22/2008 12:43:08 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Irishgirl - Okay, so your definition of an elitist is someone who doesn''t know how many houses he or she owns? That''s totally your opinion, but I disagree with that. Also, if you really read the articles carefully where McCain said that thing about earning $5 million a year it was obvious he was joking (the articles say he ''cracked'' or ''joked''). i.e. From this site: ''I think if you''re just talking about income, how about $5 million?'' he said. McCain was laughing as he made the comment, and added, ''I''m sure that comment will be distorted.''

I actually don''t care what McCain considers a lot of money, as it is entirely subjective & changes with who you ask; I care more about how much my income (whether considered to be a high or low amount by McCain) will be taxed. I only said I didn''t know how many properties my parents own because I could see McCain having the same relationship with his wife. Let''s say her parents own several properties but they are listed in his wife''s name. Many would consider those to be his properties as well through marriage, even if he knows little about them. Why risk misstating information that will be used against you if you are unsure?

You are completely entitled to feel that McCain has poor character, I was simply pointing out one can be one without the other, which you alluded to in your post.

The truth is neither candidate is hurting for money & we will never see a political campaign void of negative ads, so I concentrate my efforts on researching the candidate''s true positions on issues important to me instead of listening to the media hype & spin concerning a few comments a candidate has made in passing. However, with the race tigher than ever nowadays, I think both candidates will be grasping for straws. I don''t think either is ideal, but we often have to pick the lesser of two evils in politics.

No. My definition of "elitist" is: "[One who believes] that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources." (From dictionary.com.)

Indy, you''re clearly a McCain supporter, and I''m clearly an Obama supporter, so I think we''re just going to have to agree to disagree!

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/22/2008 1:45:15 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
No. My definition of ''elitist'' is: ''[One who believes] that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.'' (From dictionary.com.)

Indy, you''re clearly a McCain supporter, and I''m clearly an Obama supporter, so I think we''re just going to have to agree to disagree!

Oh, my mistake...you posted that link about McCain not knowing how many houses he owns on the OP & then said something about McCain calling Obama an elitist, so that was the assumption there.

Actually, I don''t support either candidate & have not stated as much in any of my posts. I have not yet decided who I am voting for because their positions have changed from the beginning of their campaign to now. I just don''t like the media/campaign-induced hype & spin surrounding every single comment a candidate makes & was expressing my disinterest in that comment being the highlight of political news today. I feel the same way about some of Obama''s comments that are hyped or spun by the media or McCain supporters, but those were not the topic of this thread.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 8/22/2008 2:07:24 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 8/22/2008 1:45:15 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
No. My definition of ''elitist'' is: ''[One who believes] that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.'' (From dictionary.com.)

Indy, you''re clearly a McCain supporter, and I''m clearly an Obama supporter, so I think we''re just going to have to agree to disagree!

Oh, my mistake...you posted that link about McCain not knowing how many houses he owns on the OP & then said something about McCain calling Obama an elitist, so that was the assumption there.

Actually, I don''t support either candidate & have not stated as much in any of my posts. I have not yet decided who I am voting for because their positions have changed from the beginning of their campaign to now. I just don''t like the media/campaign-induced hype & spin surrounding every single comment a candidate makes & was expressing my disinterest in that comment being the highlight of political news today. I feel the same way about some of Obama''s comments that are hyped or spun by the media or McCain supporters, but those were not the topic of this thread.

Sorry for assuming that you supported McCain. I hear what you''re saying about being undecided. I think a lot of people feel the same way. I''m an Obama supporter . . . for now. If I hear something from Mr. McCain that changes my mind, that might change, but I''m not holding my breath.

It seems like every time there''s a presidential election, we have to choose between the lesser of two evils!

 

[aprilcait]

Date: 8/22/2008 11:46:18 AM
Author: Irishgrrrl

Date: 8/22/2008 11:43:35 AM
Author: aprilcait
I don''t care who called who an ''elitist'' first... they both need to stop. They''re acting like children. I''m just waiting for one of them to yell out: ''I''m rubber and you''re glue...''

I hate when political campaigns get nasty. Name-calling, smear campaigns, negative comercials, etc. simply lower my view of the candidate who distributed/is responsible for the material; they do not change my opinion of the candidate being vilified. Such campaigning is purely in poor taste, if you ask me. Yuck!

April, I agree. I think it''s a shame that political candidates in general feel the need to cut down their opponent in order to make themselves look better by comparison. I wish they would just clearly state their positions on the issues and leave it at that!

EXACTLY, Irishgrrrl. I can''t imagine how much time and effort that would save everyone if candidates stopped nit-picking and squabbling and actually focused on the issues and their stances.

They say that voters are uneducated on the issues and candidates - and I agree - but politicians don''t exactly make it easy to understand exactly what they stand for. Between the round-about non-answers to questions, constant jabs at opponents, and distortion of one another''s remarks, it can get confusing... especially for the "Average Joe" that all campaigners claim to be in favor of.

 

[purrfectpear]

Politicians always have to throw rocks at each other over something

When was the last time a poor person had a successful campaign for anything besides local dogcatcher?

Sadly, the ideal we had in grade school about Abe Lincoln vanished long ago. We will NEVER have any one running for President that doesn''t have a lifestyle that is substantially better than the majority of us. To that extent...politician=elite

My response to the article would be....whatev. I don''t like either one of them

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 8/22/2008 5:47:17 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Politicians always have to throw rocks at each other over something

When was the last time a poor person had a successful campaign for anything besides local dogcatcher?

Sadly, the ideal we had in grade school about Abe Lincoln vanished long ago. We will NEVER have any one running for President that doesn''t have a lifestyle that is substantially better than the majority of us. To that extent...politician=elite

My response to the article would be....whatev. I don''t like either one of them

Purrf, you just touched on something that really bugs me. It seems so unfair that you have to be independently wealthy to run for president. I have always thought that''s really a shame. The best person for the job might not be a multi-millionaire, but we''ll never have the chance to vote for that person, because he/she can''t afford to run. And I agree that most politicians are very out-of-touch with the average American, due to their extreme wealth. How many of them do you think are really aware of what the downturn in the economy means for America? They probably haven''t even noticed, and most likely won''t notice. Meanwhile, the vast majority of the voters are having trouble affording basic necessities, while these guys'' biggest worry is which nasty name their opponent called them this week.