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Trump Wants to Kill 50,000 Wild Horses

J

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,790
It's true. I just cannot believe it.

The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) doesn't like the mustangs - it thinks they're pests and that the land should be for cattle grazing, even though most beef for sale in America is not raised on public land, but on commercial farms. The BLM wants to keep the numbers low.

So the BLM conducts cruel roundups where the horses are chased with helicopters for 30 miles across the range and then trapped. Some are adopted out to permanent homes, but most are kept in BLM holding facilities.

There currently 50,000 wild horses in government holding...and Trump wants to kill the lot! It's to save a mere $4m. See his budget.

And the kicker?

Wild horses are a protected species!! Trump doesn't care - he thinks he's above the law and can just eliminate a protected species. In the Fifties, Sixties, and Seventies, the horses had Wild Horse Annie to speak up for them, but not now.

Spread/share these links:

https://americanwildhorsecampaign.org/
https://twitter.com/kissmyponytail

Poor, poor little ponies!
 
Not a Trump fan, but I will say that this policy discussion predates Trump.
 
True, discussion about the wild horses are not new.

But this time, the plan for equinicide is enshrined in the budget - so the plan to kill 50,000 of a protected species is approved by the president. That's a first.
 
Being a horse owner and lover my entire life this is a hard pill to swallow always but there are not enough people to adopt them or enough range land to sustain as many wild horses as are out there. No one should have a horse that is not prepared to fully accept responsibility for its care and also be prepared for the dangers that exist in adopting wild horses. If herds are to be maintained then culling has to happen to ensure the survival of the fittest only. People buy horses that are not trained or useful in any way and turn them loose with the wild ones just to get rid of them. It is worse than dogs and cats IMO because a horse is a huge commitment that you can rarely pawn off on someone else and we no longer have slaughterhouses in the US. People in many other countries eat horse meat and routinely slaughter them when they are no longer useful. I rode one in Germany at a reithalle that would be slaughtered the next year because he was old.

And yes VR is right that this is not just Trump, it has been happening for a very long time but these groups are seizing an opportunity to solicit funds from Trump haters.
 
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From what I understand, the BLM will slaughter without limits. Meaning it doesn't matter if the horse is young, old, sick, or heathy.

I live near the salt river band of wild horses, and they have a large group of volunteers who help manage them. I know that the volunteers are basically begging the government to allow the humane birth control PZP.

It's so sad that their fate may be threatened, by the government, when there are alternate means of controlling their population. They're such beautiful creatures, and there's nothing like seeing them in the wild. I hope that they will still be around for my children's children to enjoy.
 
Obviously, I'm with Platinum Blonde on this.

The BLM has no science to back up its claims that the horses are eating too much from the land. There are only 40,000 of them on vast, huge swathes of land. At one point, the land supported two million of them, and no other species died out because of it. The cattle outnumber them many, many times over - and not much money is made from those cattle, since most beef that is bought in America is not raised on public lands.

However, I do appreciate that there is some need to control the population, since horses are prolific. But why not inject the contraceptives into some mares, as has been done?

There was a federal investigation into the BLM which found that they sold 1,700 horses to a known supporter of horse slaughter, and the horses then disappeared. All 1,700 of them, sold for ten dollars per head.

How on earth does this happen to a protected species?
 
I had to quit working with horse rescue because I couldn't handle the mental toll of all the mass rescues we did. Plus shit like this.
 
Whitewave, it seems to me that horses are up there near the top in the amount of abuse they've taken from humans, on a historical level. Driven into wars, used to pull things and whipped a lot, in the bad old days. And they are so patient and will work so hard for humans. I love their sweet, patient faces and gentle eyes. They're gorgeous, and many humans treat them horribly. Despite their size, they actually don't have many defenses. They don't have sharp claws or a powerful jaw. Guess that's why humans have always been able to push them around.
 
Jambalaya said:
True, discussion about the wild horses are not new.
But this time, the plan for equinicide is enshrined in the budget - so the plan to kill 50,000 of a protected species is approved by the president. That's a first.
Click to expand...
Well, I'd be wiling to bet that President Trump did not read through, and sign off, on all the 100's of pages that constitute "his" budget request -- he doesn't have that kind of attention span. (Although I'll add I don't know if every, or any, President in the past 50 years has done so.)
But sure sounds as if the same or a similar provision was in the budget proposal for Fiscal Year 2016 that emanated out of the White House 2 years ago, at the behest of BLM & it was because of Congressional action that the originally proposed measure didn't survive:
https://returntofreedom.org/2015/12...ses-included-in-fy2016-omnibus-spending-bill/

Might you have a PDF of the pertinent page(s) sent over to Congress, or be able to provide a page number & which of these documents
https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget
the language is in? I've not been able to find it myself, and as someone who's done bill drafting (at the state level), I'm always curious to see text : - )
Platinum-blonde said:
* * * I live near the salt river band of wild horses, and they have a large group of volunteers who help manage them. I know that the volunteers are basically begging the government to allow the humane birth control PZP. * * *
Click to expand...
I didn't think that Feds prohibit BLM's use of PZP; I thought the major problem was the expense, compounded by the fact that the mares have to be dart-shot/otherwise inoculated every year because it's not a lifetime contraceptive?
 
Molly, I don't have those resources but the website of the campaign linked above is very helpful.

PZP is better than nothing; yes, there are issues with it, but the film-maker Ginger Kathrens observed some mares that never foaled again after one dose. And if veterinary science tried to come up with something more effective, the wild horse population wouldn't be an issue - although I still think the numbers that the BLM want are unjustly low. (They've got it down to about 20k before.) If this is what happens to a protected species, I'd hate to see what happens to an unprotected kind!
 
Well, this is a surprise! Our wild horse does not have a protected species status. I remembered that President Nixon signed the Endangered Species Act in 1973, 3 years after the first Earth Day. Because that was almost 2 years after the 1971 enactment date (I learned tonight) of the Wild and Free-Roaming Horses & Burros Act, I was wondering when the horses' species got listed. But it's not here:
https://ecos.fws.gov/ecp0/reports/a...n&finvpop=on&header=Listed+Vertebrate+Animals
And it turns out there was a petition, just about 3 years ago, for the equus caballus to be listed as either "endangered" or "threatened," but the petition didn't even clear the first hurdle -- bottom of 1st page here:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-07-01/pdf/2015-16001.pdf
Jambalaya said:
* * * The BLM has no science to back up its claims that the horses are eating too much from the land. There are only 40,000 of them on vast, huge swathes of land. At one point, the land supported two million of them, and no other species died out because of it. The cattle outnumber them many, many times over - and not much money is made from those cattle, since most beef that is bought in America is not raised on public lands. (underlining added by MM)
Click to expand...

Just as a fyi: BLM's initial census indicated there were then 17,300 wild horses (or nearly twice as many as generally believed when the bill was drafted). BLM is reporting 45 years later (March 2017) that there are now nearly 104,500: 59,483 roaming entirely free, 44,952 are in BLM-managed off-range pastures, corrals, and eco-sanctuaries:
https://www.blm.gov/programs/wild-horse-and-burro/about-the-program/program-data

The National Research Council -- the research arm of the nonprofit National Academy of Sciences, Engineering & Medicine -- undertook a special study that culminated in Using Science to Improve the BLM Wild Horse and Burro Program: A Way Forward (2013). One of its committee's initial conclusions: "there are considerably more horses on public rangelands in the western United States than reported in BLM's Wild Horse and Burro Program [statistics]," possibly as much as 30%; the sentence appears right above the Population Growth Rates sub-heading on this page:
https://www.nap.edu/read/13511/chapter/4#55
 
Molly, I wish I had a chance to dig into this really deeply but am just rushing off to work. I thought getting the horses protected was Wild Horse Annie's crowning achievement? The Wild Free Roaming Horses and Burros Act of 1971 was unanimously passed by Congress and signed into law by Nixon. It prohibits the capture, injury, or disturbance of the horses. As far as I'm aware, this Act has not been repealed.

Yes, there are about 50k in the holding, and the estimates of free wild horses seem to vary enormously. I think it must be always changing since they breed and are also rounded up regularly.
 
Molly - another thought - since the horses have their own Act to protect them, perhaps that's why they don't appear in those things you were looking at?
 
Molly thank you for that second link. I watched the BLM youtube videos and the horses look to be in pretty good condition across the states. Though most of them were probably taken in late spring and summer. I'd imagine those in the harsher climates look much worse in winter.

Many people for many decades have been discussing the growing wild horse population. Herd management has always included euthanasia as a component. If the population doubles every 4 years without removal then eventually there will be too many and they will die out of starvation and create a wasteland in the range areas. Anyone who has had horses knows what one or two limited to a small pasture can do to the ground especially without irrigation. Multiply that by hundreds of thousands of animals and 36 million acres may sound like a lot of space but when it is growing mostly sagebrush instead of grass there is not much to eat. Plus there are other wild animals that need to share range land as well for their food supply.

Cattle using range land is a topic of debate but the cattle industry does provide food to our table and jobs for people. We do not eat horse meat in the US.
 
I love horses and hate to see any healthy horse put down but it is a problem with no easy solutions. There are few to no natural predators other than the weather to keep them in check.
 
Not surprised at all. He is the father of two trophy hunters, Don Jr. and Eric. The whole family has zero compassion to any life form but themselves.

On a side note - I just saw a Russian article about the area around Chernobyl reactor, the one that burst and burned in 1986. The territory around it has been totally abandoned by people fearing radiation. The unusual effect of it has been propagation of multitude of different species, some of them were on the verge of extinction. They have been totally repopulated in the area where people live no more. In short, I don't believe that wild horses are a problem, but we, humans, are.
 
MollyMalone said:
I didn't think that Feds prohibit BLM's use of PZP; I thought the major problem was the expense, compounded by the fact that the mares have to be dart-shot/otherwise inoculated every year because it's not a lifetime contraceptive?
Click to expand...
I believe that the BLM is saying that PZP is too costly. Wild horse advocate groups argue that managing them with PZP is less costly than the roundups.


To the best of my knowledge, that advocate groups are waiting for the BLM to allow the advocates to begin using PZP. I'm not too sure what the hold up is. Then again, I work for the Feds... there's a lot of red tape. :wall:
 
They kill large numbers of racehorses around the globe and use their meat for dogfood. I've seen photos and videos of mass graveyards for greyhounds that don't run fast enough particularly in Asia where they do not kill these poor dogs humanely.

And they also cull lots of different types of animals when they reach what various authorities term plague proportions like wild horses, kangaroos, rabbits, crocodiles and alligators and a whole host of others.

We, man create a lot of these problems introducing species to areas they should not be and by changing the natural environment of so many animals. We exploit animals in our racing industry with little regard for their welfare when they do not win. I sincerely hope at least some of the horses can be caught and re-homed.
 
On purpose we humans kill roaches, ants, rats etc. ... creatures we've judge to deserve death.
We inadvertently kill flying bugs with our windshields, and don't care.

Animals used to live where are houses now stand.
We don't care.
 
Kenny, sometimes those creatures have to be killed if they live in our houses because they can give us disease, and even if they don't, they can then breed a lot and then give us disease. And I do care if I inadvertently kill a bug with my windshield. I think, "Oh, poor bug!" I accidentally killed a rabbit once with my car and felt terrible. We have had a couple of cockroaches at work and someone trapped them under a cup. TWO men came with a huge black bag and took them away! They were so defenseless! I felt really bad for those cockroaches. They didn't stand a chance.
 
Jambalaya said:
Kenny, sometimes those creatures have to be killed if they live in our houses because they can give us disease, and even if they don't, they can then breed a lot and then give us disease. And I do care if I inadvertently kill a bug with my windshield. I think, "Oh, poor bug!" I accidentally killed a rabbit once with my car and felt terrible. We have had a couple of cockroaches at work and someone trapped them under a cup. TWO men came with a huge black bag and took them away! They were so defenseless! I felt really bad for those cockroaches. They didn't stand a chance.
Click to expand...

They don't 'have' to be killed.
You can let them live and just get the disease you fear the creature will spread.
Humans spread disease too ... is that a justification to kill them?

Who says I'm more valuable than some roach?
Seems rather arrogant, and the roach might disagree.

Then again accepting, owning, and admitting our arrogance over whatever other creatures we feel superior to at the moment would be a nice touch.
That's what's true, and what's really happening.
We shouldn't hide behind faux justifications.
 
This is an honest reply...

The way we manage dogs and cats is horrific. Now, we are going to manage these horses the same way? I believe we should manage them the way we manage other wild species...with a hunting season and limits. We need to allow wildlife conservation to handle the issue.

This way the animal is killed humanely and the meat doesn't go to waste. Yes, I know there are many trophy hunters out there but for every ridiculous piece of shit who hunts for nothing but to kill, there are thousands who hunt for food.

We are talking about beautiful, grass -fed meat. I know hunters who've eaten coyote (on the principal that they shot it, so they have to eat it.). I know hunters who've eaten cougar, on that same principal. The people I know, who hunt, make it a matter of personal principal to eat what they kill. They also make conservation a lifestyle.

Preserving the species is the top priority, not hunting. It seems to me that these horses have been mismanaged long enough. It's time to let the people who know how to effectively conserve species do this job in the way that they do it for any other WILD species in this country.
 
HC I appreciate your honesty. Most Americans have a visceral aversion to eating horse meat. I know that other countries do eat it but there probably would be few hunters who would take part in that kind of herd management. You can call it hypocrisy if you like but it is a deep mental aversion to shooting this particular species. I don't think you could get enough hunters to make a tiny dent.

We don't really hunt any longer in my family because I do not like killing the animals even though we do eat the meat. I like using my camera much better and spending time in the forest on my horse.
 
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