shape
carat
color
clarity

Trump And The Degradation Of The English Language

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,185
There are many language lovers and grammar buffs on Pricescope. I think that even for those like redwood, alhough she she does not like Charles M Blow and his "opinion pieces", this will make interesting, provocative reading. I am looking forward to discussing it!

Here is an excerpt. this is from "The New York Times".

"One of the more pernicious and insidious effects of the Donald Trump regime may well be the damage he does to language itself.

Trumpian language is a thing unto itself: some manner of sophistry peppered with superlatives. It is a way of speech that defies the Reed-Kellogg sentence diagram. It is a jumble of incomplete thoughts stitched together with arrogance and ignorance.

America is suffering under the tyranny of gibberish spouted by the lord of his faithful 46 percent.

As researchers at Carnegie Mellon pointed out last spring, presidential candidates in general use 'words and grammar typical of students in grades 6-8, though Donald Trump tends to lag behind the others.' Indeed, among the presidents in the university’s analysis, Trump’s vocabulary usage was the lowest and his grammatical usage was only better than one president: George W. Bush.

Trump’s employment of reduced rhetoric is not without precedent and is in fact a well-documented tool of history’s strongmen.

As New York Times C.E.O. Mark Thompson noted about one of Trump’s speeches in his 2016 book, 'Enough Said: What’s Gone Wrong with the Language of Politics?': 'The super-short sentences emphasize certainty and determination, build up layer upon layer, like bricks in a wall themselves, toward a conclusion and an emotional climax. It’s a style that students of rhetoric call parataxis. This is the way generals and dictators have always spoken to distinguish themselves from the caviling civilians they mean to sweep aside.'

Thompson also notes that 'Trump’s appeal as a presidential candidate depends significantly on the belief that he is a truth-teller who will have nothing to do with the conventional language of politics,' warning that:

'We shouldn’t confuse anti-rhetorical "truth telling" with actually telling the truth. One of the advantages of this positioning is that once listeners are convinced that you’re not trying to deceive them in the manner of a regular politician, they may switch off the critical faculties they usually apply to political speech and forgive you any amount of exaggeration, contradiction, or offensiveness. And if establishment rivals or the media criticize you, your supporters may dismiss that as spin.'

Here is the great danger: Many people expect a political lie to sound slick, to be delivered by intellectual elites spouting $5 words. A clumsy, folksy lie delivered by a shyster using broken English reads as truth.

It is an upside-down world in which easy lies sound more true than hard facts."

Link...https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/01/...version=Full&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article
 
Last edited:
Thompson also notes that 'Trump’s appeal as a presidential candidate depends significantly on the belief that he is a truth-teller who will have nothing to do with the conventional language of politics,' warning that:

'We shouldn’t confuse anti-rhetorical "truth telling" with actually telling the truth. One of the advantages of this positioning is that once listeners are convinced that you’re not trying to deceive them in the manner of a regular politician, they may switch off the critical faculties they usually apply to political speech and forgive you any amount of exaggeration, contradiction, or offensiveness. And if establishment rivals or the media criticize you, your supporters may dismiss that as spin.'


Spot. on.

Thanks for sharing, Deb!
 
Hmph. Elitest.
SAD!
 
I feel like you could start any number of posts with the title, "Trump and the degradation of the ......." and then you just could fill in the blank with any number of words.

Edited to say: I'm sorry that this probably added nothing significant to the topic at hand. It just popped into my head and out it came.

Edited again to say: It definitely added nothing significant to the conversation.
 
Last edited:
Oh Deb. I am sure you are not intending to offend when you say even redwood so I will ignore it. Because you could never suggest that I would agree with the president's manner of speaking.

Setting aside Charles Blow's supercilious nature, the article is mostly correct. But the comparison EB clipped above is, IMO, an incorrect inference of intention to deceive merely by using this form of speech. If you can call it formed LOL. I have watched videos of him in the 70's and 80's and he speaks in the same manner so this tells me that it is just his way. His manner of speaking drives me crazy and it always has. But so did Obama's and not for the words that came out but the body language in the delivery with his nose in the air. Well, I will admit the words that came out bothered me but not because of grammar. :D

George W. and Trump are not stupid people but when they speak naturally people of the opposite party seize these grammatical errors to point to their "obvious lack of knowledge." But these men realize that speaking in the manner of a polished politician such as Obama to someone in rural Kentucky will not get the point across or make any friends. For them to use that to their advantage is not nefarious in itself.

As much as I wish that people were more educated that is just not reality. And calling them stupid for their vote does nothing to aide that fact. There are plenty of uneducated democrat voting people in the big blue cities.

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this like rational people without casting aspersions. I enjoy conversing with you Deb, and EB too. Besides it makes me practice my language skills which are getting rusty since retiring. :lol: Which brings to mind a problem I have noticed since last year. My verbal skills are getting very rusty with DH and DS gone most of the day because my horses and dogs do nothing to contribute to a conversation. This has become a problem that must be rectified quickly by more volunteering or a part time job. My son has actually noticed the degradation and once in awhile says "Think, Key, Speak" when it takes me a moment to get my words out, much to my chagrin.
 
red - it wasn't the 'intention to deceive' part I was highlighting. I don't think Trump thinks much about what or how he'll say anything. It's the EFFECT that we've seen work so well with his supporters. Several weeks ago, a poster said that she doesn't feel Trump lies intentionally, he just speaks in half-truths, or mistruths, exactly as the author states. And what about the media being accused of spinning something negatively even by just reporting his own words? The idea that we're not supposed to take the president literally, but seriously is a pretty clear example.

But these men realize that speaking in the manner of a polished politician such as Obama to someone in rural Kentucky will not get the point across or make any friends. For them to use that to their advantage is not nefarious in itself.

I think you're right in that Trump isn't being nefarious in the way he speaks (as I said before, he speaks there as he does everywhere), but certainly in the message he delivered to these rural areas. That's not unique to him, though. You may have hit the nail on the head regarding something I've been mulling- one of the big divides in voting population is the expectation of what a president should sound like. Some want the President to be smarter than they are- hopefully, among the smartest in the country- while others seem to be threatened by this. Hence, the categorization of the "elites," ignoring that Trump was born into weath and remains an elite today, tomorrow, and for the rest of his life.
 
Last edited:
EB the article is about his language and that is what I was speaking about. There are plenty of threads to discuss his motives and I did not want this thread to devolve into that.

Edit - As far as manner of speech to particular audiences all politicians do it. I have watched video of Obama speaking to certain audiences and he falls into a manner that appears quite unnatural for him but he knows it will be received well by them. And Trump reading a speech that has been written for him appears quite unnatural, lest anyone gets any ideas about what I said about Obama.
 
Last edited:
Oh Deb. I am sure you are not intending to offend when you say even redwood so I will ignore it. Because you could never suggest that I would agree with the president's manner of speaking.

How can you think your verbal skills are rusty when when you picked up on this, red? Or, perhaps I should say, if your verbal skills are rusty now, I wouldn't want to have encountered them before they rusted!

I wasn't implying (or at least I wasn't intending to imply) that you had a higher tolerance for bad grammar than anyone else! I know you are a grammar and language buff. I merely associated you with a dislike of Charles M. Blow and also of my re-posting a lot of "opinion pieces"!

Your friend,
Deb
The Saint
:saint:
 
:lol: Actually I love that you called out to me because I was thinking you had me on ignore for a minute. My actual speaking skills are what have become rusty. The words are there but having a difficult time getting them aloud.
 
red - it wasn't the 'intention to deceive' part I was highlighting. I don't think Trump thinks much about what or how he'll say anything. It's the EFFECT that we've seen work so well with his supporters. Several weeks ago, a poster said that she doesn't feel Trump lies intentionally, he just speaks in half-truths, or mistruths, exactly as the author states. And what about the media being accused of spinning something negatively even by just reporting his own words? The idea that we're not supposed to take the president literally, but seriously is a pretty clear example.



I think you're right in that Trump isn't being nefarious in the way he speaks (as I said before, he speaks there as he does everywhere), but certainly in the message he delivered to these rural areas. That's not unique to him, though. You may have hit the nail on the head regarding something I've been mulling- one of the big divides in voting population is the expectation of what a president should sound like. Some want the President to be smarter than they are- hopefully, among the smartest in the country- while others seem to be threatened by this. Hence, the categorization of the "elites," ignoring that Trump was born into weath and remains an elite today, tomorrow, and for the rest of his life.

I had to come back to talk with you because I did not want you think I was putting you off. Perception is a funny thing. I look at Trump as a flawed vehicle that hopefully will deliver some of the things that are important to me (he already has in Neil Gorsuch). Rhetoric by any president is just that for me. The outcomes are what are important and I can leave my emotions at the door. I know this aggravates many here but that is just the way it is. I do not believe in my heart that Trump has the nefarious destruction of the US in his plans. Nor do I believe that he is only in it for the money. I can see he has realized that the job for which he was elected is much more difficult than he imagined. Hubris can do that to someone for sure and it is his hubris that caused him to believe in his heart that he was the only one who could "fix" it.

As far as the expectations of voters it would depend on their idea of the role of government wouldn't it? Sure we want our president to be intelligent but they also have to have ideals that we can align with or in Trump's case plans for the country as his ideals have been historically all over the map.
 
Last edited:
:lol: Actually I love that you called out to me because I was thinking you had me on ignore for a minute. My actual speaking skills are what have become rusty. The words are there but having a difficult time getting them aloud.

I have never put anyone on ignore. You would absolutely not be my first! In fact, I cannot see ever ceasing to view you as a friend, although I can see us as having "words" from time to time. It's just that we always seem to get over our rough patches. I believe that we both honestly have good will. How sappy is that?

Deb :wavey:
 
Yeah, strange. ..The way Trump speaks sound like he and I are at the same education level, but he supposedly graduated from a very prestigious college.
 
I recall making fun of Trump's limited vocabulary in the beginning (around the kitchen table, not publically.) Now I'm over it. If he improves the state of our country, that's what matters.
Though certainly flawed, Trump is, if anything, less affected than most, imo.
I think other posts alluded to the fiery preacher cadence, accent, and delivery. Obama carried it well, if you like that sort of thing. (Not for me). Wish I could remember some of the more comical ones, maybe someone like Al Gore?
 
I'm from Indiana. We're used to inarticulate politicians. Also those who can't spell. (Dan Quayle, anyone?)
 
I'm from Indiana. We're used to inarticulate politicians. Also those who can't spell. (Dan Quayle, anyone?)

:lol:

Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.
 
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Top