Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Today, I'm ashamed to be Nikon user

Japanese officials tried to get Palisades Park, New Jersey to remove this memorial to the abused women.

Screen shot 2012-06-06 at 3.32.30 PM.png
 
Wikisnip on Comfort Women

The term "comfort women" was a euphemism used to describe women forced into sexual slavery by the Japanese military during World War II.[1][2]

Estimates vary as to how many women were involved, with numbers ranging from as low as 20,000 from some Japanese scholars[3] to as high as 410,000 from some Chinese scholars,[4] but the exact numbers are still being researched and debated. A majority of the women were from Korea, China, Japan and the Philippines,[5] although women from Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia and other Japanese-occupied territories were used for military "comfort stations". Stations were located in Japan, China, the Philippines, Indonesia, then Malaya, Thailand, then Burma, then New Guinea, Hong Kong, Macau, and what was then French Indochina.[6]

Young women from countries under Japanese Imperial control were abducted from their homes. In many cases, women were also lured with promises of work in factories or restaurants. Once recruited, the women were incarcerated in "comfort stations" in foreign lands. Other women were rounded up at gunpoint, some being raped before being herded into "comfort stations".[2][7] It has been documented that the Japanese military itself recruited women by force.[8] Some "comfort stations" were run by private agents supervised by the Japanese Army or run directly by the Japanese Army.[1][2]

Some Japanese, such as historian Ikuhiko Hata, deny that there was organized forced recruitment of comfort women by the Japanese government or military.[9] Other Japanese historians, using the testimony of ex-comfort women and surviving Japanese soldiers have argued that the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy were either directly or indirectly involved in coercing, deceiving, luring, and sometimes kidnapping young women throughout Japan's occupied territories.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women
 
kenny|1339020807|3210723 said:
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/world/2012/06/05/lah-japan-comfort-women.cnn

This is going to bite Nikon in the butt.
IMHO, Nikon will eventually apologize and attempt some damage control.

Stock tip: Canon
Click to expand...

Kenny, as a Korean whose family suffered at the hands of the Japanese, I can tell you that I think most people won't care, and Nikon won't suffer.

I work for a Japanese company . A big one. Saving face is a massive deal.

It is too bad though.
 
I'm sorry, please give me the Cliff Notes version of Nikon's involvement?
 
Danny, a Korean photographer was to have an exhibit of Korean comfort workers. Some Japanese complained to Nikon (that basically crimes against these women didn't exist), who cancelled the exhibit and won't give a reason.
 
Danny just click my link and watch the 3-minute CNN video.
Mute the audio if it is preceded by an ad.

A photography show illuminating the problem, which I'll betcha is mentioned in history textbooks that Japanese children read , was canceled in a country that wants to erase/rewrite history.

“Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” — American philosopher George Santayana
 
TG, thanks. That's horrible.
 
This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time they try to erase history. When I was in college, our neighbors were exchange students from Japan. They had no idea what really happened during WWII. No idea what their government did in Korea and China, or how many people were tortured and murdered. It simply wasn't taught in school.

It is unfortunate. The whole losing-face culture is something I'll never understand.

Many of my ancestors perished in China during that time at the hands of the Japanese govt., so I grew up in a household that never supported Japanese products. That mentality kind of stuck. Most products we own today are LG and Samsung.
 
ForteKitty|1339025487|3210784 said:
This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time they try to erase history. When I was in college, our neighbors were exchange students from Japan. They had no idea what really happened during WWII. No idea what their government did in Korea and China, or how many people were tortured and murdered. It simply wasn't taught in school.

It is unfortunate. The whole losing-face culture is something I'll never understand.

Many of my ancestors perished in China during that time at the hands of the Japanese govt., so I grew up in a household that never supported Japanese products. That mentality kind of stuck. Most products we own today are LG and Samsung.
Click to expand...
yep,sad ,but true!!
 
ForteKitty|1339025487|3210784 said:
This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time they try to erase history. When I was in college, our neighbors were exchange students from Japan. They had no idea what really happened during WWII. No idea what their government did in Korea and China, or how many people were tortured and murdered. It simply wasn't taught in school.

It is unfortunate. The whole losing-face culture is something I'll never understand.

Many of my ancestors perished in China during that time at the hands of the Japanese govt., so I grew up in a household that never supported Japanese products. That mentality kind of stuck. Most products we own today are LG and Samsung.
Click to expand...

My dad generally didn't support Japanese products, but Korean products stunk at the time. Now they are the market leaders (TVs, phones, etc)...I never thought I'd live to see the day.

I have no issue with the Japanese, but I will never buy a product from the company I work for. Again, not because I care that the company is Japanese (I don't. I'd buy a japanese car quite happily). It's because I've seen how horribly this company treats people, and how nothing ever changes because everyone is afraid of losing face, so they just nod and agree and ignore and move on. It is one of the most mismanaged companies I've ever worked for, and I've worked for some big names. I've worked for the Taiwanese, and while most Asians in general have a thing with losing face, it was nothing like working for this Japanese company.
 
I'm not arguing, but truly want to understand this cultural difference.
Please define losing face, and tell me how what Nikon did saved face.

It seems to me you can either align yourself with the government's lie and deny any crime happened or align yourself with the women and help tell the truth.
Even just the phrase comfort women is a kick in the face to these women who were kidnapped and repeatedly raped.

How can choosing a lie over truth save face?
Shouldn't that be losing face?

What am I missing here?
Might makes right?
 
Not defending Nikon, but you will not understand the concept as it relates to many Asians because you are not Asian.

People vary.
 
TravelingGal|1339042603|3210958 said:
Not defending Nikon, but you will not understand the concept as it relates to many Asians because you are not Asian.

People vary.
Click to expand...

Care to try to explain it to me?
People vary, and right now this one's all ears.
 
I'll try.

Japan is ashamed about what happened. Admitting that it happened means it's true. (ostrich mentality)

They dont want to admit that it's true, so they want everyone else to be in denial too.

Nikon was going to show an exhibit that showed "the truth".

Showing the truth means they did all those horrible things. Hence, "losing face"

Nikon didn't want to lose face for their people, so they cancelled the exhibit.


So it's not losing face in normal terms, but in that warped, ostrich mentality.
 
Thank you ForteKitty.
 
Back in the 1970s I was in the US military stationed in the Philippines for 18 months.
Upon arrival we attended cultural sensitivity training.

They told us a common misunderstanding is that Americans just blurt out the truth and let the chips fall where they may, while Philippinos put higher priority on the effect telling the cold hard truth would have on people's feelings.
Both groups have trouble seeing eye to eye when conflicts arise involving these matters.

Is this along the same lines?
 
ForteKitty|1339043757|3210971 said:
I'll try.

Japan is ashamed about what happened. Admitting that it happened means it's true. (ostrich mentality)

They dont want to admit that it's true, so they want everyone else to be in denial too.

Nikon was going to show an exhibit that showed "the truth".

Showing the truth means they did all those horrible things. Hence, "losing face"

Nikon didn't want to lose face for their people, so they cancelled the exhibit.


So it's not losing face in normal terms, but in that warped, ostrich mentality.
Click to expand...

It's not quite that they want everyone to be in denial. They don't want to outright admit wrongdoing. They are brushing it under the rug and want people to forget it.

They know it happened but want to minimize it. Admitting it happened not only means its true but that they were WRONG.

But basically FK got it. For a Japanese company to bring shame on Japan by supporting a Korean photog documenting Korean women who suffered at their hands...not acceptable.
 
TravelingGal|1339044706|3210987 said:
http://www.japanintercultural.com/en/news/default.aspx?newsid=59

http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/resources/global-etiquette/japan-country-profiles.html

http://www.beyondintractability.org/bi-essay/face
Click to expand...

TG, thanks.
I read these very informative links and understand better now why Nikon did what they did.

The differences between countries with these very different styles is fascinating.
It must be daunting to be involved in business negotiations between, say, America and Japanese companies.
 
Comfort women? That is so insulting.I bet you anything that these poor women didn't find any "comfort" in what they were subjected to. I agree with Kenny!

I am not Asian, but have lived in South East Asia for a couple of years, and yes, the culture is very different. I do not claim to understand what they are doing...I see their reasoning, especially in relation to their culture, but I still fail to understand it. It's very sad.
 
How different is this from people in many regions of the world who are still being kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery , tricked into the business (yes they are gullible, but many are also young and uneducated), or just outright bought.

To be used in prostitution. Repeatedly. Until they are too old.

This war will never end it seems. There will be no cavalry for these women, no peace accord or surrender. So their lives, what their lives are worth... this will keep going on.

Some customers are their own countrymen, some are Americans. Many customers are Asians...

I'm not saying either is more right. And truth, or what we perceive it as is also warped. Let the world move on from one atrocity - and let us spend our effort if we must, preventing the next one.
 
TristanC|1339156962|3211716 said:
How different is this from people in many regions of the world who are still being kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery , tricked into the business (yes they are gullible, but many are also young and uneducated), or just outright bought.

To be used in prostitution. Repeatedly. Until they are too old.

This war will never end it seems. There will be no cavalry for these women, no peace accord or surrender. So their lives, what their lives are worth... this will keep going on.

Some customers are their own countrymen, some are Americans. Many customers are Asians...

I'm not saying either is more right. And truth, or what we perceive it as is also warped. Let the world move on from one atrocity - and let us spend our effort if we must, preventing the next one.
Click to expand...

I think the point of this exhibition is that those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it - if we do not highlight atrocities that have happened, we will not be vigilant about keeping them from happening again. And to show that it's not something that happens to a woman once. Rape will stay with a person for their entire lives. The effects of years of forced sexual slavery will obviously not just go away because the war has been over for a long time, and it seems to me that that is what the photographer is trying to highlight -that these women still are having to live with what was done to them, long after people have moved on in the rest of the world. The Japanese government will continue to stick its head in the sand and wait for the storm to pass. There is such a huge cultural barrier here - the gov't will not admit wrongdoing because they believe it will weaken them, where the people asking for acknowledgement feel it is a show of strength of character to admit they were wrong. So Japan feels it is staying strong while it is weakening itself in the eyes of many other countries. It's an impasse that will not be bridged, which I think does risk a repeat of these atrocities, making it even more important that exhibits like this be attempted (and, ideally, seen). If people do not know their own history - if they cannot look back and see what was done and the long-lasting effect it had - they will repeat it, and this could happen again to a new generation.
 
No, I totally get it Princess. I'm just saying - it happened. It is over. Atrocities are still being committed. I would rather the focus be on improving the quality of life for the women who are still serving a life sentence of rapine.

Not even as spoils of war, but as objects that can be sold multiple times a day. Every single day from when they are children till such time that they are of no value.

And despite all the lessons throughout history - despots and dictators seem to do just fine repeating the sins of the past. I'd much rather the problem be solved (or at least have more solutions attempted). With a coup, with a bullet through the head, or with a program of education or intervention in the case of modern day sexual slaves.

Many agencies are working, but governments and criminal groups and parties benefiting from sexual slavery are lobbying hard to prevent more being done. Surely this is a better place for us to focus our feelings of injustice and perhaps do something.
 
Ah, okay, I get your point now. I completely agree.
 
kenny|1339049141|3211010 said:
...... why Nikon did what they did.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of surprised no one else has suggested what seems (at least to me) the obvious conclusion.

Nikon was initially quite willing to agree to the exhibit, which makes cancelling to save face feel less plausible to me.

What makes total sense is this: The Japanese officials (government)......the same ones who tried to pressure the NJ town to remove the monument......likely got wind of this impending exhibit and likely brought pressure to bear on NIkon, causing the cancellation.

Nikon has to do biz in that country; hard to imagine they'd defy the government in that scenario.

Of course, this is purely speculative, but it makes total sense to me.

I wouldn't hold that at all against Nikon.
 
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top