thinner air in higher elevations

[radiantquest]

This is an off the wall question, but I have heard that air is thinner in higher elevations. Is the air actually thinner or is it less oxygen?

If the air is just thinner do you think that cars get better gas mileage because there is less "force" from the air working against the car?

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 10/12/2009 1:41:16 PM
Author:radiantquest
This is an off the wall question, but I have heard that air is thinner in higher elevations. Is the air actually thinner or is it less oxygen?

If the air is just thinner do you think that cars get better gas mileage because there is less ''force'' from the air working against the car?

It''s thinner the higher you go - I once made a trip to Cripple Creek, Colorado and tried to walk up the street, which was at a slight slope. By the time I got to the top, I was gasping for air and every breath I took felt like it had nothing to offer me. And it was barely even a hill! Lol places with thinner air like that (mountain ranges and such) usually get a lot of money from the oxygen bars! I bought a shirt there that said, "Got Oxygen?"

 

[Smurfysmiles]

I''ve heard that it can but only by like 4-5 mpg. Personally from moving from north dakota to colorado, I''ve noticed that I pay less but I can''t base that on much because gas was like 4 bucks a gallon 2 years ago in north dakota and now it is down to like 2.30 in each place...hmmmm

 

[jstarfireb]

Ooh, this brings me back to my general chemistry class from college! When people describe air being thin at higher elevation, what they really mean is that the atmospheric pressure is lower, which in turn means that the amount of oxygen that you breathe in is lower. It has nothing to do with the actual thickness of the atmosphere.

Here''s a good article that explains it in not too much detail:
http://www.altitude.org/why_less_oxygen_at_altitude.htm

 

[kittybean]

The air is thinner, so it is able to hold less oxygen. I grew up at 10,000 feet, and now when I go back, I can reeeeally feel it, especially when I''m skiing up at 12,000 feet plus. Altitude sickness, which stems from hypoxia, is a very serious threat where I grew up. I actually wrote a big research paper on altitude sickness and high-altitude pulmonary and cerebral edema. I''ll see if I can dig that up if you want to know more!

I never noticed better gas mileage. I''ll ask my dad; he''s had cars at high elevations for over 20 years.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 10/12/2009 1:41:16 PM
Author:radiantquest
This is an off the wall question, but I have heard that air is thinner in higher elevations. Is the air actually thinner or is it less oxygen?

If the air is just thinner do you think that cars get better gas mileage because there is less ''force'' from the air working against the car?

No. From what I''ve read cars don''t get better mileage - you''re typically up and down hill all day for one thing. What affects mileage much more is the mix. I DO think the older carbeuretor cars have to be adjusted - optimized - for a high elevation, otherwise the mix is too rich, and you waste the gas that can''t burn due to the reduced O2. I think the newer fuel injected cars computer adjust for the mix, on the fly. I know I and my 2007 car are flatlanders, but when I go to Santa Fe or Denver, the car seems to have plenty of power, you just can''t open it up and GO like you can on the plains.

I''ll ask my hubs if I''ve misspoke here, but I don''t think so. As a certified petrolhead and owner of 2 pet MGB''s, I''m sure he''ll correct me if I didn''t learn the "fuel economy" lesson correctly.

 

[TooPatient]

I don''t know the science of it all. B has explained it to me before, but I just can''t remember right now.

I do know that flavors are much more intense at higher elevations. Next time you go camping, take along a bottle of wine (or two) and see how different it smells & tastes when you are camping in the mountains.

 

[Squirrly]

you also get drunk much much quicker at higher elevations.

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 10/12/2009 1:41:16 PM
Author:radiantquest
This is an off the wall question, but I have heard that air is thinner in higher elevations. Is the air actually thinner or is it less oxygen?

If the air is just thinner do you think that cars get better gas mileage because there is less ''force'' from the air working against the car?

Nope. The effect of less air resistance is more than balanced out by reduced power due to less oxygen for combustion in the engine. Reduced power means the engine has to work harder and burn more gas. In most cases you get WORSE gas mileage at higher elevation because of this.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 10/12/2009 2:19:07 PM
Author: kittybean
The air is thinner, so it is able to hold less oxygen. I grew up at 10,000 feet, and now when I go back, I can reeeeally feel it, especially when I''m skiing up at 12,000 feet plus. Altitude sickness, which stems from hypoxia, is a very serious threat where I grew up. I actually wrote a big research paper on altitude sickness and high-altitude pulmonary and cerebral edema. I''ll see if I can dig that up if you want to know more!

I never noticed better gas mileage. I''ll ask my dad; he''s had cars at high elevations for over 20 years.

That''s interesting, Kittybean! I didn''t know you studied pulmonary and cerebral edema--my husband does mountaineering as a hobby. His VO2 Max is off the charts (he has a big heart, both figuratively and literally, haha). I have a small heart and one lung, so it takes me about 4x as long to acclimatize. Last year we were hiking a out west and I started getting symptoms of hypoxia. I didn''t want to be a wimp, so I didn''t tell D, then things started going downhill quickly and D nearly had to carry me down the mountain. Scary stuff, it hits you hard.

Anyway, just reiterating what Kittybean said. The air is less dense and is less saturated with oxygen. Your heart has to work harder to pump oxygen from your lungs to your brain, so you start breathing heavily (trying to get more oxygen in) and your heart pumps faster and harder (getting that limited supply of oxygen around your body). Thos with big lungs and big hearts have higher VO2 maxes.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

Date: 10/12/2009 4:21:00 PM
Author: Squirrly
you also get drunk much much quicker at higher elevations.

this is ABSOLUTELY true! Back in north dakota I could get through 5 or 6 beers before I was fall on my face drunk, I came to colorado and had TWO beers while watching a football game at the bar and almost fell off my chair, i looked like such a moron lol

and toopatient, ONLY if you insist i try that

 

[Squirrly]

Date: 10/12/2009 4:29:38 PM
Author: Smurfyimproved

Date: 10/12/2009 4:21:00 PM

Author: Squirrly

you also get drunk much much quicker at higher elevations.

this is ABSOLUTELY true! Back in north dakota I could get through 5 or 6 beers before I was fall on my face drunk, I came to colorado and had TWO beers while watching a football game at the bar and almost fell off my chair, i looked like such a moron lol


and toopatient, ONLY if you insist i try that

yeah one rum and coke was it for me in utah. i felt rather pathetic, but that''s what i get for forgetting what one of my professors told us.

trying the wine does sound good though, but would you really remember after a glass or two

 

[Smurfysmiles]

Date: 10/12/2009 4:45:07 PM
Author: Squirrly

Date: 10/12/2009 4:29:38 PM

Author: Smurfyimproved

Date: 10/12/2009 4:21:00 PM


Author: Squirrly


you also get drunk much much quicker at higher elevations.

this is ABSOLUTELY true! Back in north dakota I could get through 5 or 6 beers before I was fall on my face drunk, I came to colorado and had TWO beers while watching a football game at the bar and almost fell off my chair, i looked like such a moron lol



and toopatient, ONLY if you insist i try that

yeah one rum and coke was it for me in utah. i felt rather pathetic, but that''s what i get for forgetting what one of my professors told us.


trying the wine does sound good though, but would you really remember after a glass or two

lol ill just drag fi with me to finish the other 2 glasses in the bottle

 

[radiantquest]

Well, well. Interesting. I had no idea about the drinking and food. I bet my husband would appreciate that. I would be a cheap date getting tipsy from less.

Thanks much.

 

[FrekeChild]

The getting drunk thing is true. However, you will get used to it after staying at a high altitude for a period of time. We''re above a mile here in Albuquerque, but when you go up to the Sandia Crest...lets just say that two glasses of wine in ABQ is about the same as one on the Crest.

I have a very hard time believing that flavors are more intense at higher elevations. That just doesn''t make any sense biologically...

 

[cara]

And diesel engines do even worse than gas engines at altitude... Something about the higher compression ratio, diesels have worse performance effects with the less oxygen and its more important to tune the engine for the altitude than it is for a gas engine... We had a diesel van that absolutely *crawled* up the Rockies blowing black smoke (unburnt diesel fuel) because the engine was adjusted for sea level air pressure in the thin mountain air.

 

[MishB]

I''ve never noticed the alcohol thing. We usually drink a lot more than we would at home at sea level but never seem to get particularly affected. Must be the weak beer y''all have over there...

One effect I do love is after 4-6 weeks exercising at high altitude, when you get back down to sea level you feel like superwoman. I love getting back from a ski trip, getting on my bike and just powering up hills.