There's a National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance

[kenny]

There is a new tide rising that I'm very glad to see.
Larger people (myself now included) have long suffered prejudice but now the medical community, and perhaps society, is taking a second look at their edict that everyone should be thin.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/03/opinion/wann-fat-and-fit-study/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

I see changes like this Huffing Post article about glamor shots of larger women who previously have been ostracized from ads and fashion.
Warning some pics are very NSFW: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/03/photographer-yossi-loloi-nude-obese-women_n_2387825.html#slide=1933863

As a gay man I see HUGE prejudice against carrying even just a few extra pounds.
On this matter gay men can be much more brutal and cruel than straight men, so much so that a thriving community has sprung up, bears.
Bears are gay men who are comfortable with their large body size, and hairiness, another taboo.

Recently I heard the governor of NJ was asked if he is too fat for Americans to elect him president!
He seems to be doing a pretty good job running his state.

I'm glad this taboo topic is finally being discussed.
There can be no progress without discussion.
I hope social attitudes will change so everyone of all body sizes feel equal.
It's certainly about time!

 

[AprilBaby]

Most of us have too many pounds, including myself. Why can't we all be non judge mental and accept people for who they are? Too skinny takes flack as does too fat. Who among us is perfect anyways?

 

[chrono]

I don't think this should be seen as thin vs fat but how healthy one is. I've seen thin people who are simply unhealthy and I've seen some large (but not obese) people who are able to run very long distances or complete challenging physical tasks. I do question how obesity can be considered healthy though, the same way being too thin is unhealthy.

 

[kenny]

Most of us have too many pounds, including myself. Why can't we all be non judge mental and accept people for who they are? Too skinny takes flack as does too fat. Who among us is perfect anyways?

Well that's just the thing I'm so happy to see and am posting about.
There is a growing movement to stop seeing larger people as imperfect.

 

[GemFever]

I was happy to see some normal-woman sized mannequins at the department stores this holiday season. Even a little on the chubby side.

But those photos... while they are artistic and maybe even beautiful, I'd worry if that our society started viewing such obesity as "OK" or "normal." Doesn't such obesity come with difficulty moving, joint pain, shortness of breath, heart problems, etc? There is a fine line between accepting individuals for who they are regardless of weight and treating everyone with respect, and sending the wrong message about health.

The point in the article about fat discrimination in the medical profession is outrageous though. That needs to change!

 

[erinl]

I looked at the Huffington Post pictures and had really mixed emotions. There skin looked beautiful and they looked warm and soft, but I couldn't help feeling like they needed to be covered up--they reminded me of those offensive cards they sell in Spencer's gifts. That is biased of me because if this were a Playboy spread I probably wouldn't have that same reaction.

I also felt that they had to have some health issues, even if it only related to achy joints. No way were any of them running or quick walking for extended periods of time.

What was most offensive, however, were the comments. People have unbelievable attitudes about overweight people.

I worry so much about my own daughter because I grew up without any self consciousness about weight. It truly was not part of my vocabulary as a young child. My mother in law and sister in law constantly speak of people's weight and talk about what they eat. My niece is 7 and already has these strange food withholding rituals that she has learned from her mother and grandmother. I don't really get it, because honestly, they all could use some curves, they have very masculine builds. My daughter has a very healthy appetite and a curvier shape and comments are already made about her tummy and how much she eats (not by me!!!). She is 4.

 

[CJ2008]

All of the women looked sad to me...so it was hard to get past that when looking at the pictures.

 

[yennyfire]

I was happy to see some normal-woman sized mannequins at the department stores this holiday season. Even a little on the chubby side.

But those photos... while they are artistic and maybe even beautiful, I'd worry if that our society started viewing such obesity as "OK" or "normal." Doesn't such obesity come with difficulty moving, joint pain, shortness of breath, heart problems, etc? There is a fine line between accepting individuals for who they are regardless of weight and treating everyone with respect, and sending the wrong message about health.

The point in the article about fat discrimination in the medical profession is outrageous though. That needs to change!

Well said GemFever. There is a vast difference between being a touch on the chubby side (I count myself in the club who could stand to lose 20 lbs.) and being morbidly obese. I am very accepting of other people having the right to live as they choose, but don't think it's healthy to start embracing obesity as an acceptable way to live. I'm not saying that obese people are bad, simply that they are not (as a population) healthy and I do not think that they are good role models for young children (society in general), anymore than I think super skinny models are.

We should promote being healthy...in all aspects of our lives....mentally, physically, etc.

 

[qtiekiki]

Yes, weight is definitely not an absolute measure of health. You can be overweight and fit, because BMI solely relies on weight and height. I find it interesting that the author said "Then there are the fat people who did everything their doctors recommended to lose weight ... and died from dangerous diet drugs, from starvation diets, from mutilating weight-loss surgeries" because those all are, IMO, unhealthy ways to lose weight. I don't think anyone ever died from just eating healthier or smaller portions. But that's not the point of her article. Her point is that discrimination against fat people need to stop, and it should.

 

[purplesparklies]

All of the women looked sad to me...so it was hard to get past that when looking at the pictures.

They are sad. Let's face it. No one wants to look that way. No one wants to feel the way it feels to be trapped in that body. No, we don't all have to be at an ideal, fitness model weight. However, speaking from experience, it doesn't feel good or healthy to be obese. It just doesn't. It doesn't feel good to feel like you need to stand behind others in the group photo.

A year ago I would have said I was happy and healthy even though I was seriously overweight. I was wrong. I was not happy. I certainly was not healthy. I have lost 100 lbs. in the last year and am working on another 30-35lbs. My life is vastly different. Now I know what it feels like to feel good.

No, we don't all need to have 20-25% body fat BUT we all need to be healthy & active. No wonder I was exhausted when my family went to Disney World. I was carrying around an entire extra person! Imagine that. Strapping another full grown human being onto your back and trying to function well. It's not "chubby" or "fluffy" or healthy in any way.

I suddenly lost half of my vision in one eye 14 months ago. No warning. Cause: unknown but "it happens primarily in child-bearing women (I was 36.) who are carrying excess weight". Talk about an eye-opener. Suspicion of a brain tumor, CAT scan, MRI, spinal taps, etc......no obvious cause. No way to repair the damage. May get worse. May lose vision in both eyes. I was in denial for a bit and then kicked my butt off of the couch and resolved to do all I could to make sure I did not lose my eyesight. I never regained my lost vision but it didn't get any worse, either.

Life is better.

 

[kenny]

There is a fine line between accepting individuals for who they are regardless of weight and treating everyone with respect, and sending the wrong message about health.

GF, I think you just hit the nail on the head.
Yes, it is a trade off of health vs. respect.
I think what the article is saying is the medical community is coming to realize it is not always so cut and dry and black and white as everyone should be in a BMI range.
It's complex.

I don't know where to draw the line but I'm VERY happy the topic is being discussed.
Too many people want to just shut their ears and eyes about this topic.
It's important.

 

[Maria D]

All of the women looked sad to me...so it was hard to get past that when looking at the pictures.

They are sad. Let's face it. No one wants to look that way. No one wants to feel the way it feels to be trapped in that body. No, we don't all have to be at an ideal, fitness model weight. However, speaking from experience, it doesn't feel good or healthy to be obese. It just doesn't. It doesn't feel good to feel like you need to stand behind others in the group photo.

A year ago I would have said I was happy and healthy even though I was seriously overweight. I was wrong. I was not happy. I certainly was not healthy. I have lost 100 lbs. in the last year and am working on another 30-35lbs. My life is vastly different. Now I know what it feels like to feel good.

No, we don't all need to have 20-25% body fat BUT we all need to be healthy & active. No wonder I was exhausted when my family went to Disney World. I was carrying around an entire extra person! Imagine that. Strapping another full grown human being onto your back and trying to function well. It's not "chubby" or "fluffy" or healthy in any way.

I suddenly lost half of my vision in one eye 14 months ago. No warning. Cause: unknown but "it happens primarily in child-bearing women (I was 36.) who are carrying excess weight". Talk about an eye-opener. Suspicion of a brain tumor, CAT scan, MRI, spinal taps, etc......no obvious cause. No way to repair the damage. May get worse. May lose vision in both eyes. I was in denial for a bit and then kicked my butt off of the couch and resolved to do all I could to make sure I did not lose my eyesight. I never regained my lost vision but it didn't get any worse, either.

Life is better.

Purplesparklies, congratulations on such a wonderful accomplishment! That's fantastic.

Looking at the photos of morbidly obese women gives me the same feeling I get looking at pictures meth addicts, profound sympathy and a hope that they can somehow find the help they need to stop "using." As someone who has struggled with weight, I know what it's like to use food to numb out feelings of rejection, frustration, boredom -- everything but hunger. While I've never been technically obese, I was seriously overweight for years. Even though I was healthy enough, being normal weight feels a lot better, both physically and emotionally. A few years ago when I lost weight one friend complimented me by saying - Wow, you're really taking care of yourself! That was such a great thing to hear - it motivates me to this day.

Great job taking care of yourself Purplesparklies!

 

[gem_anemone]

Insurance will not pay for any treatment until you have x, y, and z tests run. These tests are typically in a series where they are the easiest and cheapest to do or the most common root cause of whatever symptoms you are having. Doctors will not jump to conclusions or do more treatment until the basics have been covered and it is mainly because insurance won't cover it until every other likely scenario has been ruled out. As an example: my friend had ulcers in her throat a handful of times in her life. The doctors kept giving her a herpes test every time she went in for it. She said to the doctors for the fiftieth time that she didn't have fricking herpes! But they didn't/couldn't/wouldn't believe her. She was young and must be having unprotected sex. After years of this she finally ended up getting referred to a specialist who figured out what was actually wrong and she ended up getting diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. Not an ideal outcome, but at least she finally got some answers. But again, this took years of her getting negative herpes tests for some doctor to wake up and say "hey -- maybe she really does have something wrong".

I had another friend who in her early 20s got taken to the hospital because she was in and out of consciousness and slurring her speech, but because of her age they wouldn't treat her until they tested her for drugs. This is because a highly likely that a young adult coming to the hospital with those symptoms is having a drug overdose. You don't want to pump more drugs into someone if they are on drugs and because she was young they only assumed she must be lying about not being on them. I'm not sure if she had been an older adult if they would have thought she was lying about the drugs. However, they wasted time and didn't treat her until those results came back negative and what was truly happening to her however unlikely at her age was that she was having a stroke!

What I am getting at is that it may not SEEM fair for obese people to be "discriminated against" by having the doctors ask them to lose weight before treatment, however, they are not the only ones that are being discriminated against. Doctors only know so much, patients don't always know what to tell the doctors to help them diagnose the problem and doctors have to go on what they know. They know that young people have unprotected sex and do drugs, therefore, most of them will need treatment for that. Just like carrying extra weight is medically proven to have ill effects on your body. It is typical for the doctor to suggest the cheapest, most simple and common treatment for certain symptoms. Getting rid of the weight is the basic first step. Therefore, my take on this -- is that the doctors are just doing their job.

 

[gem_anemone]

There is a fine line between accepting individuals for who they are regardless of weight and treating everyone with respect, and sending the wrong message about health.

GF, I think you just hit the nail on the head.
Yes, it is a trade off of health vs. respect.
I think what the article is saying is the medical community is coming to realize it is not always so cut and dry and black and white as everyone should be in a BMI range.
It's complex.

I don't know where to draw the line but I'm VERY happy the topic is being discussed.
Too many people want to just shut their ears and eyes about this topic.
It's important.

Can I agree that GemFever has hit it on the head with her entire post. I also wanted to make a comment that is unrelated to what I previously posted. BMI is not a perfect solution to determining a healthy weight range, however, I think it should be considered OK as an indication of healthy weight and this is why. For a lady my age and height the range that is considered within "normal" weight is within FIFTY POUNDS. To me that is a HUGE range. I would have to gain 35 pounds to be considered "overweight". I have no idea what I would look like if I put on that much weight, but I know I would feel awful, not only potentially about my looks, but about my activity level ability. In fact I am in the process of trying to lose 5 pounds.

That said, I feel like the take away with the BMI scale is that if you are normal - cool, but if you creep into the overweight range then you should make a lifestyle change to be active about managing it because chances are you ARE getting pretty heavy. If you are ignoring being "overweight" and creeping into the "obese" category, then you should seriously see your doctor about losing weight. I think we would be doing our society a medical disservice to suggest anything else, including and especially "accepting" obesity.

 

[packrat]

I think BMI is ridiculous pretty much through and through. I could weigh 100# and be super thin but according to BMI be perfectly normal. Or I could weigh 125# and be overweight-but be packing some kick ass muscle. That's what I'm working towards. I'd rather switch my fat for muscle and weigh the same as I do now-I'd be a lot thinner since muscle is more compact than fat and look a million times better.

And I agree, people shouldn't be discriminated against b/c they're overweight.

 

[justginger]

I found these photos extremely confronting - I have never seen obesity like this, so extreme and so uncovered. It makes my heart ache for these women, who are seemingly locked away inside layers upon layers of unhappiness.

I do agree that being overweight should not be a basis of discrimination. But that being said...should anything? It is human nature to categorize things/people, and make judgements accordingly. There are people thought to be stupid for speaking slowly or stuttering, women who are called sluts for dressing in tight clothes, and obese people who get dirty looks when they buy a bag of potato chips. It's not nice, it's not fair, but it seems to be how the world operates these days.

 

[rubybeth]

I don't think everyone should be thin. I try to treat every person with kindness and the respect that they deserve as human beings. However, I think there are two issues here, both of which are missed by the author of the 'Big Deal' article: 1) societal expectations to meet a standard of beauty and 2) being thinner is, in general, still more healthy than being obese/morbidly obese.

Now, you can be overweight and have great blood pressure, normal cholesterol, no hint of Type 2 diabetes, and be in great physical shape, eating right and exercising regularly. That is what the JAMA study shows. Your doctor probably isn't going to bug you about losing those 10-20 lbs. Being a bit overweight but being in general good health is not associated with higher mortality (I am not a doctor, but I believe 'overweight' would also include weight lifters who have a larger proportion of muscle and therefore fall into the 'overweight' category of the BMI). But the study does also say that being obese is still associated with higher mortality: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137 All of the women in that photo shoot are morbidly obese--100 lbs. or more above what they should weigh for their height. It is not being 'fat intolerant' to say that. Overweight does not mean obese or morbidly obese.

 

[AGBF]

Is it a coincidence that this was the article most e-mailed from, "The New York Times" today?

Our Absurd Fear of Fat...http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/opinion/our-imaginary-weight-problem.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0y???

AGBF

 

[Autumnovember]

I think moving towards not having a judgemental attitude in ANY situation is great but there is a big part of me that knows being heavily overweight just isn't healthy. Medically, being as large as some of these women are also raises the question about what health issues they have going on as a result. Anytime we have a patient that is really overweight, we address the issue through education and teaching because it needs to be and at that point I don't even think it IS about acceptance as much as it is about avoiding a lifelong string of health problems that truly do have a domino effect (affect? crap!). All of this applies to those who are underweight, too.

There have been many times that I've been in a situation where someone has commented on another persons weight and I always find myself thinking, "do you know WHY they are this way? What exactly has gotten them so heavy/thin?"

 

[AGBF]

I think moving towards not having a judgemental attitude in ANY situation is great but there is a big part of me that knows being heavily overweight just isn't healthy. Medically, being as large as some of these women are also raises the question about what health issues they have going on as a result. Anytime we have an overweight patient, we address the issue through education and teaching because it needs to be and at that point I don't even think it IS about acceptance as much as it is about avoiding a lifelong string of health problems that truly do have a domino effect (affect? crap!). All of this applies to those who are underweight, too.

You were right the first time. Domino effect.

Deb

 

[Autumnovember]

I think moving towards not having a judgemental attitude in ANY situation is great but there is a big part of me that knows being heavily overweight just isn't healthy. Medically, being as large as some of these women are also raises the question about what health issues they have going on as a result. Anytime we have an overweight patient, we address the issue through education and teaching because it needs to be and at that point I don't even think it IS about acceptance as much as it is about avoiding a lifelong string of health problems that truly do have a domino effect (affect? crap!). All of this applies to those who are underweight, too.

You were right the first time. Domino effect.

Deb

Thank you, haha!

 

[anne_h]

Personally, I liked the photos and found them artistic and interesting and moving. My favorite was the lady in front of the fireplace.

However, I agree with some others that being overweight and obese should not be promoted as a desirable goal. I believe, generally speaking, that it is healthier to be closer to a traditionally 'normal' weight. However, acceptance of all sizes is a reasonable societal objective.

I saw an interesting program on BBC recently that hypothesized that the reason so many people are overweight and obese these days (aside from the usual explanations of food abundance and sedentary lifestyles) was that the recent generations of humans have been naturally selected for their ability to put on fat easily (ie: prepare for times of famine). This is why it is so easy for most of us to put on weight. However, for most people (not all) weight is generally controllable, although it means having to actively manage caloric intake and exercise levels. This is what I do, although definitely it sucks some times.

That said, I don't believe it's okay to treat others rudely for personal attributes such as age, ethnic original, body shape/size, etc. So definitely I will agree we all need to respect each other.

My two cents.

Anne

 

[PhillyMcGee]

Those photos are pretty extreme! I agree that people should not be judgmental of course, however there is a big difference in being a little overweight and being morbidly obese!

I am currently in the midst of losing a significant amount of weight, I am about half way through. I knew I was a bit overweight, and decided to do this mainly to improved fitness which was terrible, and has never been great. Upon beginning my weight loss, I was very shocked to learn first of all my actual weight (after not weighing myself for a long time) and that I was in the obese category!! Maybe I was deluded but I didn't think I looked that bad and have never been bigger than an Australian size 12-14 (I think that is a US 8-10) so I don't really understand how I could be so overweight but not visually huge! Anyway. I have lost about 13kg so far and have about 16kg to go. I feel so so so much better!! The fact is, while you can most certainly be skinny and unhealthy, honestly you can't be obese and perfectly healthy. Yes you might be fitter than an unhealthy skinny person, but being obese carries a lot of other health problems that you don't even notice untill you aren't obese any more. I have to admit, when I was obese I was far more forgiving of laziness and being a bit overweight than I am now.

 

[partgypsy]

I do not think most doctors are making knee jerk reactions to weight/bmi. I have a friend who is a lot heavier than I, but is very physically active. She does watch what she eats, eats healthily, but her set point is higher than mine. Because she doesn't have any weight-related health issues, her weight is not much of an issue to her doctor.
My oldest daughter is very thin. She always has been, as was I when a child/teen. I was concerned what the doctor would say. Rather than the doctor making a knee jerk reaction, she talks to us about what and how often she eats, tracks her growth on a chart which has been very consistent (she is at 98% for height) and said, that's just the way she is built, and in fact will probably get a little skinnier before she hits puberty. So no lectures, just a discussion and analysis. Maybe that's also in part because our youngest has a different body type; they can tell it's not because we are withholding food!

OTOH there are some people who can stand to lose weight. My mother, and she can't stand it when the doctor mentions it. But really her issues is not just weight, but also food choices and regular exercise. Sometimes a doctor saying "lose weight" is a stand in for other issues such as physical activity and food choices. But it is the doctor's job to address behavioral changes for health, whether it is salt restriction for people with high blood pressure, fat/cholesterol levels for people with heart disease, smoking for everyone, etc. Because those behavioral changes are often more effective and safer than medications.

 

[GliderPoss]

This is a really interesting topic.

I agree there is discrimination in all walks of life against larger people, even from medical professionals. I think others have hit the nail bang on about it being a fine line between fat/healthy/fit. It's more about RESPECT for others in general no matter their physical appearance. Doctors have a vested interest in keeping people HEALTHY - if you are too fat or thin then obviously it's part of their role to help point that out. I'm sure some larger people are very fit and "healthy" as such but may struggle to reflect that in their weight whereas others may be slim but very unhealthy! We all know BMI is not a pin-point accurate measure but it's a general way to determine a healthy weight range. You could probably just take a long hard look in the bathroom mirror to know if you are obsese or not....

BUT to be honest I think we are not doing ourselves as a race any favour to have an increased acceptance of obesity. The obesity rate in the world is alarming and only growing higher each year. The medical and financial long term effects of this will be devistating. "We" as humans seem increasingly unable to do what is best for our own bodies!? Why is it so hard to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for ourselves?

 

[Trekkie]

Kenny, as someone who is usually attracted to short, stocky men with dark stubble and body hair, I totally get what you mean about prejudice against preferences.

My cousin (one of my best friends since childhood) is morbidly obese. She has a BMI of 57. No, that is not a typo. Thanks to her, I have some insight into the world of BBWs, SSBBWs, fat girls, fat admirers, feedees and feeders.

The women in those pictures do look sad, but I wonder how much of that is real and how much of it is due to the artist? As incomprehensible as it may seem, some people who are morbidly obese actually enjoy being that way. Some get a sexual thrill from "stuffing" themselves. There's an excellent documentary (My Big Fat Fetish) that touches on this, so I won't even go there.

I know many people who are very happy and comfortable with being what the BMI categorises as morbidly obese. Some of them are healthy, some of them are not.

I view the article from a different perspective - I wonder why no pictures of men were posted? My knee jerk reaction is, "great, yet another photographer airbrushing nudes, telling fat women what they should look like ".

Because let's face it, how many fat women do you know who look like that?

 

[JulieN]

I view the article from a different perspective - I wonder why no pictures of men were posted? My knee jerk reaction is, "great, yet another photographer airbrushing nudes, telling fat women what they should look like ".

Because let's face it, how many fat women do you know who look like that?

Yes, except for the first photo in the series, where are the stretch marks???

 

[House Cat]

What is the difference between these photos, and photos glorifying anorexia?

This appears to be eating disorder, glorified. In saying that, this isn't ok. It is just more comfortable because overweight SEEMS more healthy to us. Advanced anorexia LOOKS like a person is dying. Anorexia or morbidly obese, each is extremely deadly.


I am all for treating everyone with the respect they deserve. I think these photos and a conversation about respect are two different things...apples to oranges.

Edited, sorry.

 

[AGBF]

What is the difference between these photos, and photos glorifying anorexia?

This appears to be eating disorder, glorified. In saying that, this isn't ok.

It is just more comfortable because overweight SEEMS more healthy to us.

Well...yes and no. After all, no one makes fun of the thinnest women on earth if they are fashionably dressed. Anorexia is the glorified norm for our society: Kate Moss, ballerinas. "You can never be too thin or too rich." "The smaller the dress size, the bigger the apartment". Angelina Jolie, like Audrey Hepburn, can let herself get too thin; she cannot let herself get too fat. If you get too fat, Joan Rivers will start talking about whether your thighs will fit through the Golden Arches as she did about Elizabeth Taylor.

AGBF

 

[ascari_2]

The joys of living in a PC world.