The History of Christmas

[movie zombie]

have you ever done a search online re the subject? some i knew prior but i did learn some things. first i checked out:

http://www.holidays.net/christmas/story.htm

and then i checked out:

http://www.locksley.com/6696/xmas.htm

who knew the puritans banned christmas?! who knew that people had to go to work and/or school on december 25 until the 1870''s in this country?! who knew the state of Alabama was the first state in the US to recognize the holiday?!

poke around the website before you decide this guy doesn''t know his stuff or is anti-christmas and/or anti-christian...........and, no, he does not practice witch-craft, i''ll let you find that factoid for yourself. but i can tell you he loves christmas!

oh, and it was at the locksley.com website that i was linked to an article by one E.G. Cook titled "What is Christmas?" he''s also done his research and knows all about those pagan origins. but he is so down on christmas i had to go to the Landmark Independent Baptist Church homepage to confirm he is actually with that group!

see: http://users.aol.com/libcfl/xmas2.htm wow! talk about a war on christmas.......... !


peace, movie zombie

ps 1-thank you to the other thread re the war on christmas that got me interested enough to pursue the topic further and
2-there were lots of ''hits'' in the search but lots of repetition of what i found in the above referenced websites.

 

[AGBF]

Good sites, MZ. Unfortunately, until after celebrating this pagan holiday, I will be too busy to pursue any of the little tangents that I found interesting! St. John Chrysostom immediately caught my attention. One of the churches my family attends is named after him.

Deb

 

[perry]

Concerning the link to the birth of Christ.

A number of years ago I did a fair amount of research into when the most likely time that Christ was born. It comes to spring to early summer.

There are several keys to this argument.

1) There were shepherds in the fields at night. This historically places it in spring to early summer because that is the time of year that shepherds stayed out with the herds at night as that was when most of the baby sheep and goats were born.

2) Jesus was born in association with a tax collection period. The historical pattern for tax collection was twice a year. A) in conjunction with the birth of flock animals (a key form of wealth). B) in conjucntion with the fall harvest season (another time of wealth).

In no case could any case be made on any bibilical evidence for a midwinter birth.

Plain and simple - the Catholic Church adopted a pagan holiday so they could have a winter festival as well (not all Christian organizations did so at the time).

Perry

 

[movie zombie]

perry, that was my understanding from research i did some years ago: jesus more than likely born closer to easter....another pagan adopted holiday.

peace, movie zombie

 

[MINE!!]

Easter? Hmmm.... Not sure about it being pagan.. I am sure that it was adopted at a time of year that would celebrate the spring. However, Easter is a Christain Holiday. The eggs and stuff like that were secular. Brought in later by those that felt... "left out" kinda like the ''Merry Christmas'' issue this year. Easter was 7 days after Passover. If you have proof that this a ''pagan'' holiday.. I am eager to read about it.

 

[perry]

I have to agree with MINE.

The day of the crucification of Jesus is very well fixed in the bible as is the day of burial ; and no one has ever disputed it.

There is some dispute on which day Jesus rose from the dead (which was discovered on Sunday). There are those who argue that Jesus actually had to have rose from the dead on Saturday (the Sabbath); however, the people of the time were all jews and would not have looked.

Please note that the biblical day went from sundown to sundown (not the current midnight to midnight).

Perry

 

[movie zombie]

much of easter predates "Easter".....early church adopts pagan habits to get people to adopt a new religion called christianity. the concise date of the crucifixion is not known and there are 3 dates that are possible. also, there is communication/negotiations going on to establish a permanent date. read on:

http://wilstar.com/holidays/easter.htm
http://www.theholidayspot.com/easter/history/easter_history.htm
and better yet:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter.htm
short: http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter.htm


and interestingly: "Some Christian fundamentalists reject nearly all the customs surrounding Easter, believing them to be irrevocably tainted with paganism and idolatry. Others, like the Sabbatarian Church of God groups, claim to adhere to a more primitive form of Christianity, and keep a Christian Passover which lacks most of the practices or symbols associated with Easter and retains more features of the Jewish observance." this actually makes some sense to me as jesus was, after all, a jew and there some discussion in the early years of christianity if it was even possible to be a chrisitan without first being jewish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter which has more about easter than i can even begin to remember.

and i think this one says it best: there is something for everyone in Easter!
http://www.fridgedoor.info/spring-celebrations/easter.php


but then i believe there is something for everyone in christmas, also.

peace, movie zombie

 

[MINE!!]

Actually, I see nothing here to dispute what I orginally stated. It was a spring equinox festival.. which I think I said that it was possibly. I can remember that it was a Hebrew affiliation as well, which in turn became more of a Christain celebration of Christ. Finding easter eggs, is once again, one of those things to help those who are feeling left out in the holidays.

The Christain celebration of the resurrection and morning of Christ is synopsis with Easter. As I think I mentioned about the Chrsitmas tree in another thread, pagan rituals were adopted to ease transitions for pagans into Christainity in such places as Scandinavia and Wales.. thus the places that many of out mythology, names and traditions really stemmed from.. (until the later 1200''s when the west would begin to take inspiration and practices of the east, such as India)

I thnk that it is nice that the secular world has something they can lay fingers on and say that is their holiday. Good little ones they are...

 

[AGBF]

Date: 12/18/2005 12:04:27 PM
Author: MINE!!
The eggs and stuff like that were secular. Brought in later by those that felt... ''left out'' kinda like the ''Merry Christmas'' issue this year.

Are you sure? Jesus was a Jew and the Last Supper was supposedly on Passover. There is an egg, for symbolic reasons, on the seder plate during Passover.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

This is about Easter, not Christmas, but is interesting.

website

Deborah

 

[MINE!!]

Hmmm... I have to look it up...good point ... eggs were considered a symbol of renewed life.. although I am sure that they didn''t paint them..

Deb>For some light hearted fun reading I would suggest The Lamb by Christopher Moore. I think you will really like it. At first I though it was going to be blasphomes.. but it was great. I do not laugh out loud very often, but this book had me rolling. It is good stuff.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 12/19/2005 3:38:54 PM
Author: MINE!!
For some light hearted fun reading I would suggest The Lamb by Christopher Moore.

That''s the only kind I do! Sounds like my kind of book. Thanks for the tip!

Deb

 

[AGBF]

Some of you may find this interesting.

The History of Easter Eggs

It''s TOTALLY the wrong holiday! Somebody get me back on track!!!

Deb

 

[movie zombie]

good link, deb, re a history of the [easter] egg: "From ancient times eggs were dyed, exchanged and shown reverence. "

i remember taking a workshop some time back and the leader was a jewish woman that grew up on a kibutz [spelling] in israel. she talked about growing up with hebrew tradition that would by many in the US would be considered ''pagan''.

yes, the topic is way off course from the history of christmas. perhaps at easter someone will revive the discussion in a separate thread.

happy holidays, movie zombie